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Shiny new cycle help

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Tabitha Tickletooth

11:20 / 03.01.06

Ok - I'm buying a new bike and I'm buying it asap, possibly even today after work.

The cycle situation: I use my bike a lot. I cycle to work, in London, at least four days a week, averaging over 100kms in weekly commuting. I cycle on the weekends as much as possible.

My previous two bikes have been mountain bikes. Both have been very cheap and failed me in what I feel have been disappointingly short periods of time. I am, however reluctant to criticise them, for they were, in their day, good bikes.

I'm not a sleek whippet-like cyclist and don't fancy a racing bike. Although most of my riding is done in London city, this does frequently feel like off-road conditions and I do use my bike in different environments on the weekend. Given distances, I don't think a bmx would be practical.

The choice would therefore seem to be between an out-and-out mountain bike and a hybrid.

I'm looking to spend around £300 but would go as high as £500 for something 'worth it'. Key areas where help would be most appreciated: the 'hybrid v mountain bike' debate; makes/models you think rock; and disc brakes - more trouble than they're worth?.

Also, women's frames - what's that about then? I've only ever had boy's bikes and haven't encountered any problems. I read that it is to do with frame length, but can anyone compare and contrast the two?

pointless & uncalled for

12:09 / 03.01.06

Firstly, woo hoo and congratulations on being a cyclist, this automatically makes you ACE.

I ride a Giant Rock SE which cost me £230 with bells and whistles attached. It's basic, cheap but reliable and has had few maintenace issues.

For London riding I would advise getting a hardtail (front suspension only) as the terrain can get rough and it'll make using the canals and parks a lot easier. Make sure that you get one with firm suspension and this will mean that you won't loose a lot of power going up hills. As for the failure rate, get a new one and give it a good thrashing over the first month before getting it back for what should be a free first service. The majority of any problems should have come up by then and thereafter get into a good maintenance routine.

Cheaper bikes with disc brakes have cable mechanisms which offer little benefit over rim brakes. On top of that the pads are hard to replace/calibrate. If you're going to go for discs then it's better to go for hydraulic, which costs a lot to install.

Women's Frames - There are two types here, one is the step-through frame, whose only benefit is for the beskirted rider. A less stable frame in an impact though.

The other is the Designed For Women (DFW) frame. It's about 50/50 on whether these are worthwhile. Some say they suit the biological geometry better and won't cause health problems later on in life. The rest say that it's all a bit of con and they've never had a problem with a "man's" frame. I can never really advise on this so try it and see.

12:34 / 03.01.06

BMX. With pegs.

12:34 / 03.01.06

Whatever you do, make sure you try before you buy. I don't just mean for 5 minutes either, take it out for at least half an hour. Bike shops will be cool with this. Where are you thinking of purchasing it from? Cycle Surgery, particularly the Holborn branch, are very helpful. Good time to buy too as I'm sure you have realised. Lots of sales, and lots of '05 bikes going cheap too.

Tabitha Tickletooth

12:56 / 03.01.06

Thanks everyone - most helpful.

SK - tips on the suspension definitely noted. Wasn't keen on disc brakes (amongst other things because they seem to complicate the idea of changing a flat while being abused by postal van drivers and pedestrians on the side a London city centre road at rush hour) and think I will steer clear of them. On the service front, is it standard to get a free service on a cycle after thirty days? If not, is it something I am likely to get if I make a point of asking for it?

Jack - my heart says 'yes'; my head, and other key parts of my body, say 'no gears, no go - you do the work, with your little tiny wheels...'.

Punji - I'm definitely going to take a substantial test ride, if for no other reason than I am still deliberating over pedal questions. I don't want cleats, but then someone (it may even have been SK) mentioned that you can get a dual pedal of some kind that is normal on one side, clips on the other - or some such fantastic, new-fangled device. That might be okay, but I'd have to give it a go. I've had toe clips before and don't mind them, but not sure if they're a good idea for me in London traffic situations (particularly given the unpredictable nature of the pedestrians in this neck of the woods).

Planning to go to Evans, but could go to the one at Holborn and slope into Cycle Surgery as well. I seem to recall them pushing Marin last time I was in there - anyone know if they're good? Suggestions also very, very welcome on alternative cycle vendors in the London area.

farseer /pokes out an i

13:19 / 03.01.06

I ride a Gary Fischer Hookoo. 2001, front disc brake, JUDY front shocks, and hardtail rear.

Disc Brakes: The many, many times that I have changed my tires, the disc brake in the front has always made the process easier. I have a V-brake on the rear tire, and it's a hassle to unclip compared to my front disc (which is a cable disc brake, not hydro.) And the stopping power of the disc brake, in my experience, more then makes up for the teensy higher price.

Hard Tail: Most rear suspension bikes are improperly set up, or have too squishy shocks, and you end up losing a good portion of your up/down rotational power in your bouncy rear end. I went for a hard tail because I'm not planning on doing hardcore, technical, rocky descents.

Mt. vs. Street bike: You will be AMAZED at how little effort it takes to cruise down a street on a "street" bike (read: Narrow tires) vs. a "Mt" bike (read: fat tires). If you are going to be jumping the occasional curb, and otherwise never straying onto a trail, I recommend that you get a comfy, hard-tailed mountain bike and put narrow-ish street tires on it. Not skinny street tires like on a roadbike, but as narrow and street-y a tire as the bike shop has to sell ya.

I used to regularly commute to work on my bicycle (before my office changed locations), and I rode both a roadbike and my mt. bike. Riding the Mt. bike into the office was WAY more of a workout then the roadbike, but I could confidently skip over curbs, and with my clip-in pedals (I recommend Time or Tyme pedals, not Shimano), I could jump over pretty much anything minor in the way.

Cheers! Good luck on getting fancy wheels!

13:22 / 03.01.06

Loomis and I have both just bought new bikes today, and in fact both Marins -- the local bike shop has a sale on at the moment. I knew I wanted a Marin Muirwoods - good for round town but also good for touring, as it's steel and can take front racks. And so when i saw it in the sale I just had to grab it. Loomis got a Marin Larkspur, which is lovely. We pick them up on Sunday - hurray!

Definitely take a few for a ride and see what you like. Any decent shop will give you a free service after 4-6 weeks to tighten up cables and generally check it's settling in ok.

I'd lean more to the hybrid/urban (they all call them different things) side of things - knobbly tyres will slow you down too much on roads and paved areas. The hybrid wheels are more solid than road bike wheels and they'll be fine for what you're doing.

I don't know much about disk brakes as I haven't used them - I've never found v-brakes to be a problem. And as you say, they're simple to undo when you get a puncture.

Oh god, and get puncture resistant tyres too. They're a smidgeon heavier, but save a lot of grief.

And I'm about to get just the pedals you mention - I've got clipless pedals on my road bike and want to be able to use my cleated shoes on the Marin too -- but I also want to be able to wear trainers or anything I happen to have on.

Evans are ok, they get slagged off a bit but they were fine when I bought my Brompton there (incidentally, if you join LCC you can get 10% off the cost of your bike - that's why I went there). It's worth looking round, though, maybe go to Condor and a few others if you have time.

farseer /pokes out an i

13:25 / 03.01.06

DFW frames rock. An ex of mine got the DFW frame that Gary Fisher makes (I can't recall the catchy name for it, but it's pretty nifty), and she loooooves it. The handlebar stem is shorter, the frame top tube is shorter, and some other odd bits and parts.

Re: Cable disc brakes, )shrug(. I've never had trouble replacing my pads, or properly tensioning my cable. YMMV.

re: clip ins, I recommend them. The way you interact with the bike changes when you can lift and nimbly adjust the rear (and front, if you're ninja) tires about while in traffic has been a lifesaver. The combo pedals (one on each side) didn't work out for me, because whenever I went cycling I wore my cycle shoes w/ the clip ins. Shimano were a nightmare to keep clean and adjusted for me, and so I switched to Tyme (Time?). Clipping in and out is nigh instantaneous.

13:27 / 03.01.06

I can't believe I just bought a new bike today, since I never even rode the old one (but it was free from a friend and was all bent and wonky). And you can't turn your nose up at £100 off. Hooray for new year sales.

13:30 / 03.01.06

farseer- maybe you need nifty shoes like Ariadne's. The cleats are sunk in so you can walk around as normal when not on your bike, and use normal pedals.

pointless & uncalled for

13:42 / 03.01.06

The vast majority of shops offer 30 day services to take care of the bedding in. If they don't offer or won't give it, don't buy there. This service is essential. Make sure they include the spokes in this service or they'll start snapping about three months in.

Other things to buy when you get for the bike:

Track pump with guage. Keep your tires pumped up every two weeks and you should get far fewer punctures. Seems expensive, definitely worth it.
Hand pump. Easier to carry on the road. Topeak Morph can do both at once.
Two spare inner tubes. No need to waste time patching a tire on the road when you can do it in the comfort of your own home. It also means less time for passing abuse.
Haynes Bike Book. Learn to do some of your own bike work. No point in paying someone else to do the simple stuff.
Puncture Repair Kit. Duh huh
Lights. Duh huh
Multi-tool. Good for all that maintenance work you'll be doing.
Rip ties, or cable ties, surprisingly handy more often than you would think.
Pannier rack and panniers. Less-sweaty-back-tastic than a backpack and good for shopping trips etc.

Cleats seem scary but many people ride many, many miles in London with them and without accident. After about two weeks you'll wonder what posessed you to ride without them. Double sided pedals are handy just in case you're going somewhere that doesn't like you banking across their floors like a crazy idiot. There are various types of cleats available. Unless you plan to race then get Shimano SPD type.

pointless & uncalled for

13:51 / 03.01.06

Incidentally, the reason I recommend SPD cleats is that they have a little more play in them than which can be a bit more comfortable. Properly set up SPDs can be clipped in and out instantaneously, exactly like Time, Look, Speedplay and many other types of cleat. Tend to be cheaper in my experience and double-sided pedals come in a decent variety of styles. It's easier to get shoes that you can walk about in because SPDs can be recessed deeper.

if you do go for cleats then whatever type you go for, make sure you have a supply of granny socks as those hard soles tend to get a bit cold in winter.

Tabitha Tickletooth

14:39 / 03.01.06

You guys rock. With every post I grow pathetically more excited!! Congrats Ariadne and Loomis on your fine purchases. I've looked at them on the Marins site and they look most excellent - however I am sure that in your possession they will grow even more beautiful. Perhaps posting of new cycle joy pictures might be looming...

I'm pretty swayed by the mountain bike with hybrid/urban wheels/tyres idea. And I am slowly being won over to cleats, although I am definitely wanting some quality testing time before I decide. Ditto with the dual pedal - I take on board the advantages of clip-ins, but I really am a bit of a 'it's more fun on a bike' saddo: every where I go, from the corner store to football, is more fun if I cycle there, and having to don the proper shoes in every instance would not be ideal.

Despite some of your glowing endorsements for disc brakes they remain second on the list - I feel comfortable with v-brakes and still don't see any real advantage (except for the improved stopping power as mentioned by Farseer which strikes me as a bit of a double edged sword - I know, that probably says something about the way I cycle...).

Will try out a DFW frame if there is something I fancy, but I'm not convinced it's something I need. Seems to be pretty much consensus on front-only suspension, which suits me. Will have to mull over the type of pedals/cleats question as this seems to be an area of some geniune contention...

And SK - thanks for bringing up the panniers thing. I'm an unrepentant sweaty backed backpacker, but I've often glanced sideways at the panniers. Can anyone advise on ease of use? Are they an 'either on or off' thing, or something you can easily slap on when needed and remove when not? I like the idea but frankly (and I know this is pathetic) I think they look a bit dicky and I like my bike to be cool (even if just to me), so I wouldn't want them on there all the time.

Current plan of action - this evening after work, reconnaissance at Evans and Cycle Surgery Holborn. Followed by Saturday final testing and purchase. Can't tell you how much help everyone has been!

pointless & uncalled for

15:42 / 03.01.06

Altura do a good range of panniers at an affordable price. They are designed to be quick on and off without any practice and the waterproofing is pretty reliable. There are a couple of models to which you can fix shoulder-straps and these are worth considering. Panniers with side pockets are ideal for carrying the tools and repair kit. They also make the carrying of locks a damn sight easier than having to attach them to your frame all the time.

Locks: Can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier. The standard London mantra is two locks in town. Get at least one D-Lock with a car-key style lock. I personally use an On-Guard Bulldog Mini in combination with a Specialized cable lock. Whatever you end up buying, make sure that it carries the Sold Secure seal of approval. Skimping on a locks will mean that you end up looking at a new bike on a regular basis.

pointless & uncalled for

15:46 / 03.01.06

And just to make it clear, LCC membership gets you 10% discount at most bike shops in London. Not to be sniffed at apparently.

19:12 / 03.01.06

SK where do you go for the used bikes again?

20:44 / 03.01.06

Regarding pedals: as well as double-sided, you might want to consider something like Shimano 424s, which are supposedly "freeride" but mighty practical: in short, a little spd pedal surrounded by a honking ordinary flattie. You don't have to worry about getting them right side up, they're quite tough, and yet if you're wearing spds they'll support you quite well - so that'll help your knees.

I'd personally lean towards getting a mountain bike and a set of road tyres, purely because I'd want to MTB at the weekends sometimes. The Muirwoods, though it says it's a hybrid, is practically that - it certainly used to be a proper off-road MTB.

Discs: decent cable discs are generally OK (Avids spring to mind, also I think Shimano have a few) but cheapo-cheapo cable discs must be avoided.

Womens Specific Designs: can be good. Especially if you're small - they alter the proportions of things quite a bit. Unfortunately, cheap WSD/DFW bikes aren't that common, last time I looked; they tend to kick in on the pricier models. They differ in the proportions of the top/downtube, the length of the cranks (shorter, because your lower leg joints are shorter), and they often have WSD forks.

What you'll almost certainly want, though, is a woman's saddle. Vincennes bangs on to me about this all the time, and boy-saddles and girl-saddles are barely interchangable, and support your bits in different ways.

Cleats: yeah, if you're confident. They'll improve your pedal technique a lot, they make you more efficient (because you push AND pull), they are very comfy and Farseer's point about connection is good. Just don't learn on a busy day in rush hour, and set the allen nuts at the back a bit loose so you can spring out easily. Tighten them a little when you're more comfortable. That's the theory, anyway - I've only used cleats set up for me by someone else and got used to them fast. Just remember to ALWAYS twist your ankle out and you'll be OK.

23:16 / 03.01.06

And don't try to pull up as you twist - that's the natural thing to try to do but it doesn't work. And yes, practise somewhere quiet!

Interesting you say that about the Muirwoods, Paleface - I was wondering about whether it was 'really' a mountain bike. I might get a set of MTB tyres to keep handy.

As for the women's designs, my road bike's very definitely designed for small women - narrow handlebar etc. But I'm buying a man's (or 'standard') Muirwoods cause it just seems to fit. Though yes, I need to get a woman's saddle.

04:07 / 04.01.06

I picked up a mountain bike over the past summer, but I'm on the other side of the pond in Philadelphia. I've seen my friends ride a variety of bikes as well and sport something between a vintage, fixed wheel design that the couriers ride and a bit of the hybrid, mountain bike type with cut down bars. If you deal with the occasional off-road or bumpy pursuit, I'd definitely yield to the prevailing attitude and affix some road tires to a mountain bike's rims.

I have a hard-tail Cannondale which works well when the front head-shock is behaving properly. I've yet to get the proper tires yet, but I tend to ride it out to the riverside most times when I take it out. I can attach disc brakes to my frame if I wish but the current setup seems to do me quite well. Front wheel disassembly is a snap.

I'm not sure what warranties are like in your local shops, but I have a manufacturers warranty to replace all parts up to 3 years with an additional 2 years of maintenance and service thrown in for $50 U.S. I get 5-6 services a year included on my agreement. If you have the chance to swing something like it, I would recommend it. Helps on those days you can do it yourself or want a professional to give your ride a once over.

pointless & uncalled for

06:42 / 04.01.06

For second hand bicycles I would go to Edwardes of Camberwell on Camberwell Road, just north of Camberwell Green. This is because this has been my local bike shop when I've been in London.

Some people find them a little stand-offish at times, but once you get to know them they're pretty good, very knowledgeable and tend to be good at cutting prices for regular customers.

Other than that, you could do worse to check the LCC Bike Shop Locator for one near you. Be careful what you buy second hand as too many shops aren't that interested in the origin of the bikes and there is a reasonable chance that it's hot. If a second hand bike is very cheap then I would suspect that its either nicked, not properly checked out or both.

Alternatively, Decathlon in Surrey Quays do a basic entry level bike for £80. It isn't shit.

09:40 / 04.01.06

Re: the Muirwoods, Ariadne: by "used to be", what I specifically meant is that a few years ago, it was definitely in Marin's MTB lineup. Suddenly, in 2004, it was redesigned, and became part of their hybrid lineup. It's probably not very suited for off-road at all anymore; I remember that the forks are slightly more road-like now. They transferred the product name to an entirely different bike, basically.

Re: second-hand bikes. If you see a bike on Brick Lane (or, more likely, just off it)at a good price, it's almost certainly nicked. Conversely, if your bike DOES get nicked, there have been reports of occasional success at buying it back from down there.

09:45 / 04.01.06

ah, gotcha, that makes sense. It looks pretty 'urban' now. Well, I'm really not a mountain biker anyway - I want it for touring and round town.

And agreed on Brick Lane - buying from there you're pretty certainly getting a stolen bike, and thereby boosting the bike-stealing market in London.

How did you get on last night, Tabitha? See anything nice?

Tabitha Tickletooth

11:00 / 04.01.06

Tragically, I got stuck at work until it was far too late to bike shop (have to mention the *** in 'every' article, do you). However, same plan is on for tonight so hopefully I'll have an update in the morning.

The talk of Brick Lane and bike theft does remind me of yet another question I'd like to throw out there: what to do with dead/seriously ill bikes? I have two now - both have lots of recyclable parts, and arguably could be repaired with a bit of know-how and some bargain bits, but they are not safe to ride (so I don't feel I can give them to the charity shop). Normally I just leave things that I don't need any more on my front wall with a note inviting people to take them, but I worry that kids might just trash and dump these.

What do other people do with their old bikes?

Note: not looking for any money, obviously, but also don't have a car so need someone who would collect them.

11:03 / 04.01.06

In Edinburgh, you can hand them in to the Bike Station, and they'll be recycled and given to people who need them or sold at a low price - I'd imagine there must be something similar in London?

pointless & uncalled for

12:01 / 04.01.06

Both the Islington and Tower Hamlets groups of the LCC run workshops with parts exchanges, they might be willing to take your old bikes for cannibalisation.

Other than that there are a few rebuild charities in London. I can't remember what they are but the LCC should know.

pointless & uncalled for

12:02 / 04.01.06

Or you could bung them on freecycle.org and some greatful sole will come and collect them from you.

13:08 / 04.01.06

Plenty advice already on this thread, but i'll add my tuppence worth -

Lube: Purple Extreme - forget whatever you used to use, this is the one for all weather uk communting. clean running, and lasts forever, even in the rain.

Tyres: Specialized Nimbus Armadillo or Schwalbe Marathon Plus. More expensive than standard issue slicks (£20 each), but wave bye-bye to punctures.

Lights (Rear): Cateye TL-1000 is the daddy. preferably two of them.

Lights (Front): Lumicycle Li-ion are fantastic. different wattage bulbs are cheap (£7) and changeable depending on your terrain. My bike sports a 5w spot for urban, and 12w spot for rural commuting. or both switched on in the fog.

09:51 / 05.01.06

Well? Did you get it? We wanna see pics!

Tabitha Tickletooth

13:26 / 05.01.06

Okay cycle fans, last night was cycle shopping night one. Went to Evans and Cycle Surgery (for those who know London bike shops). Saw quite a few things which caught my eye, although as the man in Evans was really unnecessarily rude to another customer while I was browsing, I would now prefer to buy from Cycle Surgery.

At present, the winning bike is: Marin 2005 Hawk Hill 'V'.

It's a mountain bike frame, but feels very light and sturdy to me. We've discussed tyres and they're going to do me a deal on something slightly narrower and much smoother - cautioned me against going too narrow more because of decreased puncture resistance if I'm off road or on glassy canal paths.

Trying to make time for a test ride - could be tomorrow before SK's drinks (which I am very much hoping to make) with an eye on purchase and collection by Saturday. Other bikes that I liked the look of were the Ridgeback Tempest '06 and the Specialised Crossroads Sport FS.

So, anyone any thoughts?

13:51 / 05.01.06

Hurray, it's Marin week! It looks lovely - I hope the test ride can be soon.

I'm not convinced about the narrow tyre/ puncture thing but fair enough - so long as it's smooth it'll help on the road.

13:54 / 05.01.06

I bought one a few days ago from Halfords, it was cheap and I feel ashamed! But I wanted to make sure I actually went out on it before I thought about getting into the world of serious shiny cycles...

I should have just gone for a Chopper. Or a Raileigh Vortex (Vertex?)

13:56 / 05.01.06

What kind of bike did you get, bear?

13:59 / 05.01.06

I really wanted to just say Silver but this gives a little more info -

Bear Bike

I'll be surprised if that link works...

It'll do what I need it to do I reckon although cyclying it home I realised just how unfit I was which was a little worrying.

14:04 / 05.01.06

Beware, this could be the start of an expensive hobby! My sister started off with an Apollo and several years later could practically open a bike-hire business.

Halfords get slagged off a lot but you don't want to spend a fortune if you're not sure you'll get into riding. Again, you'd probably find life easier with less knobbly tyres but see how you get on.

I love the way when you click 'enlarge image' you just get a strecthed version of the wee one!

Tabitha Tickletooth

14:47 / 05.01.06

Bear - I had a Halfords Apollo! It was great! Sadly, it didn't last as long as I would have liked.

Problem I had with Halfords was that they offered really shit follow up service. In fact, when they built up my bike, I had to go over it and readjust everything - brakes were rubbing, gears weren't aligned, even the handle bars needed to be tightened down! Then, when the gearing on it finally went, I was facing a situation where it would have cost more than half the value of the bike to repair/replace.

Bet you'll have most excellent fun on it though. Cracking value for money, very tough and no-one wants to nick them! I was skint when I got mine and still think it is probably the best £100 I could possibly have spent.

Ariadne: Just out of interest, what width tyre do you think I could go down to on the Marin (if that's not an overly technical question)? The guy seemed genuinely helpful and I'm sure would be more than happy to explain further his logic, but it would help if I had another opinion to try out on him.

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