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Health

 
 
SMS
03:08 / 03.01.06
Back in 2003, Haus posted a Conversation thread called “How much are you prepared to suffer in the name of health?” which asked the question, “How much is health ruining your life?” The presupposition of the question, taken by itself without Haus’ intended irony, is that health is a state of being in which one may be required to sacrifice some kind of Happiness to attain.

Is this so?

A training in biological and neurological science and medicine certainly provides an aid in determining the state of a body (i.e. whether it has cancer) and the potential for altering that state (whether the cancer can be eradicated), but is such a training an aid in assessing whether the body is actually healthy?

How could such a determination be made and what are the criteria by which we could judge health? Who can judge health?

Although few would dispute that cancer is a disease, we might dispute what is meant by this. Is my saying so only another way of saying “I really don’t want cancer” or is there something more to it than that? If not, then the only meaningful definition of an objective disease would be a condition in which all people are agreed that the condition is highly undesirable. For practical purposes, we would be able to settle on nearly all people agreeing, but this would still bring up difficulties.

What is the connection between mental and physical health?

If we were to find no good objective definition of health, what implications would this have for public health policy?


Off the top of my head, here are some conditions I have heard some people call diseases and others call not diseases:
addiction, shortness, baldness, impotence, unattractiveness, listlessness, loneliness, crooked teeth, deafness, all mental illness, etc.
 
 
Claris Dancers
16:44 / 03.01.06
The presupposition of the question....is that health is a state of being in which one may be required to sacrifice some kind of Happiness to attain.

Is this so?


No i dont think so. In fact I would say that there is a direct relationship between health and happiness. Im not saying which causes which, because instead of one causing the other they may cause eachother or neither, and there may be something else involved entirely. But i would say, the less happy you are the less healthy you are in general.

I think the definition of diseases should be left to the people who define such things. I mean people were all kinds of fucked up and unhealthy eons before someone thought to label things a "disease." They were just unhealthy for various (im sure unknown) reasons.

Also, I generally cant put much stock into an industry (out to make money by strange coincidence) who labeled homosexuality and alcoholism diseases. As a guess, maybe a good definition of disease would be something that is life threatening and that you cannot control yourself (alcoholics can control themselves, they choose not to - oy, thats gonna get me in trouble). Cancer is a pretty good example of this, although some people have been successfully beating this by themselves for quite some time (Dirk Benedict for example). AIDS is a better example, or leprosy.

Mental problems are alittle trickier, but they can fall into physical problems too like neurotransmitter imbalances for depression and schizophrenia and the like and actual physical brain damage for PTSD. But still not diseases by my earlier guess definition. They are just something else to attend to.
 
 
sleazenation
16:56 / 03.01.06
The presupposition of the question....is that health is a state of being in which one may be required to sacrifice some kind of Happiness to attain.

At the risk of being really obvious - this question is almost entirely reliant on each individual person's definition of 'health' and 'happiness', particularly the what drives fuel hapiness in the individaul.

If a mixed diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables and a certain ammount of regular physical exercise, make you happy, the answer to the question may well be 'no'. However if you enjoy drinking large quantities of alcohol, smoking, little or no exercise and the like you would be more inclined to answer 'yes'...
 
 
SMS
17:53 / 03.01.06
Qwik:
I think the definition of diseases should be left to the people who define such things. …

Also, I generally cant put much stock into an industry (out to make money by strange coincidence) who labeled homosexuality and alcoholism diseases.


I’m hearing contradictory things here. I thought the people who define such things were the same people who included homosexuality and alcoholism in the definition. Why would we leave them to that if we cannot put much stock in them?

They were just unhealthy for various (im sure unknown) reasons. (emphasis mine)

But what do you mean by that? I know you offered a definition of a disease, but you would have to bite a lot of bullets to maintain that a disease has to be life threatening. Human mortality fits your definition because it guarantees death and we cannot control it. Anything for which there is a cure would not qualify as a disease because we can control it. And I do not know if it would include, say, Parkinson’s or not, because the risk to life has to do with getting pneumonia or infections.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
18:21 / 03.01.06
here's something to cogitate:

in the old-growth forest on the Pacific coast of Canada, there is a low incidence of disease (not sure how that's defined).

The reason for this is that the rich soil (lots of varieties of microorganisms) as well as the rest of the ecosystem has evolved a fairly balanced symbiosis.

I think that disease, in this case, reflects parasitic relationships, whereas health reflects the symbiotic.

does that help?

-not jack
 
 
Claris Dancers
18:47 / 03.01.06
Why would we leave them to that if we cannot put much stock in them?

Because they do what they do. I can't stop that. It doesnt mean i think they are right all the time though.

Human mortality fits your definition because it guarantees death and we cannot control it.

In that case you're right, i guess life is a disease ;P
But really, AIDS is like Parkinsons i guess in that you dont actually die from it. You die from all the myriad infections and sicknesses you get because of a weakened immune system. So maybe it doesnt fit my disease definition either. But still, think of all the things that mess us up today - are the ones that have an easy cure still considered diseases? There are a mess of ways people can have "sickness" and be "ill" (not including the Beastie Boys way). Getting sick with a head cold isn't getting a disease, mostly because it's (usually) not life threatening, there are ways to make it better, and it doesn't last long.

But i think i like Not Jack's parasitic relationship/balanced symbiosis model. Seems fitting to me.
 
 
one point, oh
21:39 / 03.01.06
I would tend to think of health as an ideal, an ideal to which we can only make approximations. Similarly, I suppose, to other abstractions of this type (for example freedom) it can never be attained absolutely; we are seemingly constrained by our own physical limitations to being consistently unhealthy to relative degrees. There is no such thing as a perfectly healthy being. Personally I would take the view point that we are all in a generally degenerative state and that health, or the quest to be healthy, is the attempt to minimize its impact on our lives and to not encounter anything which will speed up the process by which we lose our own functionality. Now note that this is a very different quest to those which we are often fed to us under the same name; the quest to look like a he-man, the quest to be the right shape, colour or size, or even the quest to be fit enough to compete, fight or crush our enemies. Frankly these are more often a sign of psychological unhealthy than an aim towards well being.

I suppose the ideal of health in its crystallized and solid form would be perfect homeostasis, perfect emotional and psychological well-being, zero trauma to the body, perfect muscle tension so as not to experience aches, perfect posture, no impeding deformations or disabilities and finally it can possibly also be said to include perfect quality of life, but I guess given this one’s subjectivity we can probably overlook it. Now even overlooking the last item it’s fairly obvious it’s more of a pipe dream than something to be actualised. The process of becoming healthy is like some kind of asymptotic aim towards an unachievable end. I kind of view health therefore somewhat like Kant’s imperfect duty to the self in the groundwork; perfection of the self. I don’t believe anyone should be forced (if it were possible) into being healthy, but it is essentially a waste not to. Unattainable and subjective, but universally desirable.

I would say about health and happiness then, that we should probably take a somewhat utilitarian standpoint. To coin slightly economic terminology; Haus’s presupposition is right in so far as some people will be sacrificing the short term profits of utility garnered through not exercising. However by doing so they, hopefully (assuming they don’t get run over), reap the longer term profits of minimised degeneracy of functionality. Now I think people make these choice on the basis of which lifestyle will give them more utility. This also gives room for those nuts that are health crazy and derive great satisfaction in running around in subzero temperatures at the crack of dawn - they are just people who take a lot of utility from lactic acid I guess.

As for your questions about how to define disease or health, I think we should perhaps look at the etymology of disease; much to everyone’s surprise I am sure, it literally meant causing a lack of ease. Therefore it may be wise to see a more personal distinction as to what qualifies as a disease and what doesn’t. If something physiological is causing you irregular discomfort, hindrance or dysfunction it might as well be considered a disease I suppose. More interesting would be for someone to try and ascribe an exact line as to what justifies a mental illness. If you aren’t aware you're dysfunctional according to our norms is it right for other people to determine that you are unhealthy? Do we simply trust the authority of the 'informed'? Welcome to Harmony House.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
02:44 / 06.01.06
I'm not sure about the idea that using your body less (ie not exercising) may have a long term benefit (not stressing oneself out).

the biological body is amazing when compared to the mechanical, in that the more one uses it, the more efficient it becomes.

if one abuses it, including obsessive exercise (remember Bruce Lee?), then the body may break, and wear out.

there is a certain glow about people in good health. it usually goes along with being in good spirits. It can probably be measured with some doodad or machine that goes "ping," but there's a certain intuitive recognition of robustness.

maybe it's pheromonal.

just a thought. or a feeling.

--not jack
 
  
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