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Leading the Liberal Democrats

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21:23 / 22.01.06

Well, hang on.... I thought Oaten had withdrawn from the leadership contest earlier in the week after failing to find enough backers to even launch a proper bid - that's the reason why he isn’t standing in the leadership election. We only heard anything about the NOTW story after his withdrawal - like, yesterday - and in fact they probably would have been happier if he *was* still a full candidate when they went to print, if only so they could take the credit for torpedoing his bid. But this story isn’t actually the reason why he isn’t standing, is it? Just in terms of How News Works, I can’t believe that this *News Of The World Exclusive!*-thing was leaked earlier in the week, to Oaten himself, to any other lib dems, to anyone, otherwise the Screws would have been totally scooped well before Sunday.

They *might* have bought down a would-be leader, *if* he was standing when they went to print with their story, but he wasn't, so they didn't. They just caused someone who had already - independantly - decided he wasn't going to be leader to resign from the lib dem front bench.

...Or have I got that wrong?

Psi-L is working in hell

21:51 / 22.01.06

No you are probably right Bedhead, I was just feeling particularly cynical when I wrote that earlier...it is more likely that the rent boy involved got in touch with the NOTW after Oaten's withdrawal.

Will be more interested to see whether Simon Hughes now get's the tabloid spotlight turned on him now there's even more Lib Dem blood in the water.

22:26 / 22.01.06

Oh, I’m sure that the Screws were only interested in Oaten because he *was* a candidate when they started digging around. I just don’t like seeing the fuckers take the credit for significantly affecting anything, other than the guy’s private life. Otherwise it might sound like they’re proper investigative journalists or something.

But I may have come off harsher than I meant to - I wasn't picking you out or meaing to call you cynical, Psi-lock, just reacting to a day of hearing about how omg-scandalous this story is. Sorry about that. And you’re right, I’m sure Simon Hughes and the rest will be sweating now if they’ve got any skeletons in their closets. And, this is maybe a good opportunity for Ming to set that very very square jaw of his, and to look clean-cut and old-fashioned and noble again.

22:28 / 22.01.06

Bedhead - I think the idea is that a Sunday Tabloid had the story on Oaten and was planing to publish it this Sunday... Oaten got wind of the plans, realised he was fucked and decided to withdraw from the leadership race in the hope that that would be enough to lower is profile beneth tabloid notice again, but ultimately he was mistaken in this hope... something along those lines...

Of course it could be that Oaten was going to back out of the race any way due to a lack of support...

22:44 / 22.01.06

Oaten got wind of the plans, realised he was fucked and decided to withdraw from the leadership race in the hope that that would be enough to lower is profile beneth tabloid notice again

I dunno about that, to be honest.... he was already late declaring who his backers were, and just kinda sounded elusive on that issue in the interview I heard when he first announced his intention to stand. There were already rumours that he was having difficulty mustering enough support.

So, you’re right, it’s one explanation, that it was all The Screws Wot Done It, but it just seems like it'd be weird and stoopid for him to react in two stages like that - to give up on the leadership bid with one public statement, and then on the shadow cabinet a couple of days later...

*looks dubious but not 100% certain either way*

23:21 / 22.01.06

It was my understanding that Oaten only stepped down as a member of the shadow cabinet after the rentboy allegations became public and was a reaction to them...

I'd also question where the Tabs are getting their stories on various prominent lib-dems from... it certainly appears plausible that there are people within the Lib-Dems that are breifing against their fellow members, this was almost certainly the case with Kennedy and could also be the tabloids' source on the Oaten story...

06:25 / 26.01.06

So, Hughes has admitted to having had sex with men, but denies being homosexual...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:32 / 26.01.06

That news. So Mr Hughes, are you bisexual or did you just 'stray'? After all, you denied you were gay, rather in the same way Charles Kennedy denied he had a drink problem.

08:01 / 26.01.06

Does it matter how Hughes identifies? Are the most vociforous criticisms of him going to come from the right wing press, Ming Campbel's supporters in the Lib Dems, or sections of the gay community?

Tryphena Absent

09:04 / 26.01.06

From me! What a wanker. What a liar. What an arse. What's wrong with these liberal democrats. Is truth so hard to speak? And remember that smear campaign against Tatchell that hughes benefited from. Apparently I'm not the only person online who is aware of that. But apparently all that time Hughes was putting it about with the menfolk as well. Arse! Wanker! Bastard! Liar!

That is all.

09:32 / 26.01.06

Do you have any details on this “viciously homophobic media smear campaign,” nina? It certainly sounds terrible, although I’m not sure whether this is something that Simon Hughes did, 20something years ago, or something the media did.

Tryphena Absent

09:38 / 26.01.06

It was never directly linked to Simon Hughes so it would be hearsay if I provided you with a link in which someone stated it was. However a lot of people thought the bile originated from Hughes' camp and it's a typical by-election strategy.

Psi-L is working in hell

09:43 / 26.01.06

The only homophobic campaigning in that by-election which can be linked to Simon Hughes (so says this Wikipedia entry, though Nina is right this could still be largely hearsay) is apparently leaflets which called him the 'straight choice' for the constituency, and it is this which he's apologies for I guess? Other parts of the campaign were more personally critical of Peter Tatchell with a lot of Liberal activists wearing badges saying 'I've been kissed by Peter Tatchell' because they felt that Tatchell was trying to play down his homosexuality, though the entry linked to above suggests that Tatchel was told by the Labout party to not mention it.

Tryphena Absent

10:09 / 26.01.06

a lot of Liberal activists wearing badges saying 'I've been kissed by Peter Tatchell'

The problem is that you can't divorce the candidate from the party.

Psi-L is working in hell

10:22 / 26.01.06

That's very true, and it's certainly not as if Hughes distanced himself from any of it at the time....only now in retrospect, and perhaps with the growing realisation that he would have to declare his own homosexual relationships in the future, in which case it smacks a little more of damage limitation and image management than a genuine apology.

11:04 / 26.01.06

Wow, thank you psi-lock. There’s the detail I was looking for.

Nina, the guy in the link that you just provided says If Hughes.... were to apologize to Tatchell for the damage that those who indirectly supported Hughes did, it would be easier to support him.

Which is what he’s just done, in fact. It seems that he’s taken 'responsibility' for everything that happened in that campaign, whether he knew about it or not, and has stated that there were things that were wrong and that he’s sorry. Hughes also says he’s apologised to Peter Tatchell before now, and, incidentally, Tatchell backed him for leadership of the Lib Dems the last time he stood. Is any of this affecting how you view his candidacy now, or will he always be a liar/wanker/arse?

20:06 / 26.01.06

Is now the right time to release my photos of a masked Ming Campbell breaking into Oaten's office with a bag marked 'SWAG' over his shoulder?

20:15 / 26.01.06

More seriously, I wonder what Peter(?) Tatchell's got to say about this.....

20:59 / 26.01.06

Gay rights activist, Peter Tatchell put previous political battles aside this week to express his support for Liberal Democrat leadership candidate, Simon Hughes.

Tryphena Absent

22:42 / 26.01.06

Is any of this affecting how you view his candidacy now, or will he always be a liar/wanker/arse?

Personally I prefer Hughes to Campbell. There's something I dislike about Ming that I can't put my finger on. I'll have to research it and come back to that. Something at the edge of my brain- I'll talk to some people about it who can perhaps enlighten me, perhaps it's a story I've heard that I can't remember.

I think that Hughes will always be a tosser. He isn't as left as he comes across, particularly on policy points surrounding the most formative aspects of British society. I can't envision his party putting as much money into public services as Labour has. Tatchell is a forgiving man but as a member of the electorate who fundamentally believes in equality I can't forgive Hughes for campaigning on sexuality in such a vicious and derogatory way. An apology doesn't really cut it for me- 1983 was a very ugly time for the left and the Liberals made it uglier by running a campaign that attacked an entire section of society. I hold them to it just as I hold Shirley Williams (and co.) to her distinctly unsound action in splitting away from a party because of union votes at a time when a complete lunatic was in charge of the country. These people may as well have defected to the Conservative party.

23:38 / 26.01.06

I think you are being overly harsh. Particularly of accusing Hughes personally of campaigning on sexuality...which is still not something I have seen evidence of.

On the early 80s, I'm not entirely convinced that the SDP made labour any less electable than they had made themselves... and in the wake of the jingoistic free-for-all that was the aftermath of the Falklands i'm not sure either interpretation would have made any difference...

Outside of that, It isn't Ming that is filling me of disquiet as much as those behind him... there are a lot of young and ambitious Lib Dems who appear to be less than principaled and more than willing to brief against their fellow members...

Tryphena Absent

08:57 / 27.01.06

Particularly of accusing Hughes personally of campaigning on sexuality...which is still not something I have seen evidence of.

Three people over the age of thirty have mentioned it in as many days. One on TV, two to my face. You cannot have supporters walking around with those kinds of badges on, you cannot put leaflets through doors that describe you as the "straight up" candidate unintentionally when your opposition is gay. Does Simon Hughes really strike you as so naive that 1)he wouldn't pay attention to his own campaign. 2)He doesn't know what the word straight means in comparison to the word gay? Either way it's reprehensible though for very different reasons.

You are deliberately divorcing the campaign from the candidate. That's nonsense Sleaze. It's not how campaigning works. Any candidate who doesn't proof the election leaflets sent out in his name shouldn't be in politics. Neither did he ask them to remove their badges. He actually apologised to Tatchell, which suggests a fair amount of complicity.

15:40 / 27.01.06

I do tend to make make the distinction between the man and the campaign. Perhaps it is a distinction should not make. Perhaps I am being terminally naive, but I genuinely don't believe that Hughes personally advocated an anti-homosexuality campaign. (though I genuinely believed that US voters would not re-elect George W. Bush). As I believe you made clear in your earlier post, and to the best of my knowledge, to claim otherwise would be hearsay.

And on the subject of your distaste for the SDP for what they did to the Labour party, it should probably be noted that in the 'battle for Bermondsey' Tatchell was denounced from the House of Commons by the then leader of the Labour party. The Labour party was at war with itself in the early 80s quite aside from the SDP split.

Goodness Gracious Meme

15:58 / 27.01.06

Ok, I'm fucking angry about Simon Hughes' shiftiness over this issue.

He's been duplicitous, slippery and hypocritical but having finally taken a position, publicly stating that he is bisexual, the Guardian's response is to ignore that and vilify him for not being out about being gay.

Goodness Gracious Meme

15:59 / 27.01.06

See also However much I love my gay friends, I don't want them running the country

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:52 / 27.01.06

Urge to kill rising... Is this THE Lowri Turner or just A Lowri Turner?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:00 / 27.01.06

I've been on telly with her... horrible woman.

18:12 / 27.01.06

I suppose I have a certain sympathy with Hughes, despite his "shiftiness". Getting involved in a homophobic election campaign, however passive that involvement was or wasn't, was a gross error of judgement. It seems to me, though, that the person most entitled to feel wronged by this is Peter Tatchell - and Tatchell's being remarkably gracious about the whole thing.

Tryphena Absent

18:37 / 27.01.06

GGM. They're doing him a favour, if the media stresses his bisexuality there will be a lot more prejudice directed toward him then if they say he's a lying homosexual. A good proportion of straight and gay people will assume he's continuing to lie if he's labelled as bi. He's in the middle of a leadership contest, they're trying to give him a chance.

19:43 / 27.01.06

Has he actually said, "I'm bisexual"? I'll admit I'm not up to speed with everything Hughes has said on the matter, but I got the net impression that he's talked about what he's done (had sexual relationships with women and with men) and suggested that it's all more complex than straight/gay.

Which I'm not sure that many people will find fault with, not in a serious way, anyway. There's a general laziness in terms of labelling any man who's ever shagged a man 'gay' or 'lying', but I'm not sure avoiding both labels still generates the same level of opprobrium it used to. I think we're gra-a-adually coming to terms with the idea of MSMs. Gradually.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:29 / 28.01.06

Ganesh Has he actually said, "I'm bisexual"?

Yes he has. And here.

14:38 / 28.01.06

Tt. Well, then, the filthy, cake-eating-and-having fence-sitter deserves everything he gets.

19:45 / 01.03.06

Votings Finished, results on Thursday

Guido Fawkes calls it for Ming Gosh it's weird to see betting prices from where I work being used as an informal poll.

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