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Leading the Liberal Democrats

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12:39 / 07.01.06

So, this thread really shifts from Wither Charles Kennedy to Wither the Liberal Democrats...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:18 / 07.01.06

... And he's gone. He'd be perfectly in his rights for his resignation statement to be "fuck the lot of you".

13:55 / 07.01.06

Menzies Campell likely to become the new leader, with many Lib dem MPs aiming to give him a coronation rather than a contested election...

So, what do people think of Ming the Merciful?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:25 / 07.01.06

That's a real shame, though inevitable. Good luck to Charlie in whatever he does next. And without a shred of irony, I'll have a drink for him.

Nasty way to go, though. The phrase "ungrateful bastards" springs to mind.

15:48 / 07.01.06

Yeah, but he was, to say the least, not exactly pragmatic. And an increase of twenty seats over two elections is hardly the sign of a brilliant, successful leader.

He was stupid to deny the drinking for so long.

15:50 / 07.01.06

It obviously didn't help that he replaced Paddy Ashdown, too.

16:04 / 07.01.06

So, what do people think of Ming the Merciful?

I think he's menzing.

Poor Charlie. Too human for politics. I suspect there's at least a teeny-weeny bit of him that's actually quite relieved.

05:32 / 08.01.06

do you really think menzies is menzing?
i always feel he comes across as a very dignified and statesmanlike figure, and i seem to recall him talking sense most, if not all, of the time.

last election i i told people i'd prefer him to chuckles, and i havent seen anything to change that opinion.

does anyone think that kennedy may have been advised to come clean by a less than friendly party member? strikes me as possible, and seeing as how it was entirely predictable(i feel) that his admission was going to cost him his job it seems plausible. better to just resign citing the age old 'spend more time with my family' line, surely?
we'd have ended up with the same result, but he wouldnt have had to suffer seeing his name linked with alcohol in almost every article or feature mentioning him. whether it was the idea of a malicious advisor or not, i dont think it was very well played.

i agree that the party seem to have been a bitcrap about it, especially considering his years of service, but i dont feel that it was that surprising.

we like our footballers, our filmstars and our musicians caned on all manner of stuff, but its not really the same with politicians, is it?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:20 / 08.01.06

Well, it never did Dubya or Bill Clinton any harm. Cameron seems to have got past the drugs problem. Tory Shadow Cabinets since '97 have been full of people who did various financial/sexual misdeeds prior to 1997.

12:59 / 08.01.06

Shit, he's gone. I think people probably underestimated the strength of the man, addressing party conferences while clearly in a very rough state... He must have a fucking will of iron.

My brother's friend was at Glasgow Uni at the same time as CK and recalled that the only real scandal he was embroiled in was his fondness for taking taxis to places like Aberdeen on student union expenses, for which he gained the moniker Taxi Kennedy.

But the Lib Dems are clearly daft bastards... Ming's a decidedly less personable and human figure. But I guess more in the mould of Paddy Ashdown.

13:43 / 08.01.06

I think the Lib Dems can look forward to a decreased turn-out next time, let's put it that way.

Charles Kennedy really did have a golden opportunity in terms of leading his party - it seemed for a while back there, with the Tories in total disarray, and Labour fatally (by any sensible standards, though as it turned out, not, in the sense that it probably isn't going to be a major issue in the next general election,) compromised over the head of Iraq, that the Lib Dems might become the natural UK opposition. But, for now entirely understandable reasons, I suppose... he did kind of let things slip away. If he'd pursued a far more aggressive anti-war strategy, and that aside, basically said all the vague, nice things that David Cameron is now saying about the environment and so on, and if he'd just cut down a bit, he would a) still be in charge of a party that actually stood for something, and b) wouldn't be looking forward to what I'd imagine would be a slightly tiring, if lucrative, hopefully, career as a celebrity ex-lush.

For the meantime anyway, though, they'd seem to be pretty much finished as an operative force in UK politics, those crazy Lib Dems.

13:58 / 08.01.06

Of course, they've been written off before, particularly back in the late 70s when, with 6 MPs, you could literally have fitted the entire parlimentary party into a single taxi...

14:03 / 08.01.06

Well, it never did Dubya or Bill Clinton any harm. Cameron seems to have got past the drugs problem. Tory Shadow Cabinets since '97 have been full of people who did various financial/sexual misdeeds prior to 1997.

well, kinda.
kennedy admitted to having a drink problem,
cameron sidestepped the issue, bush has buried books about his problems and clinton's never been into altered states as far as i know.
i dont think sex and money scandals are the same as a drugs scandal. that, and kennedy's issues are very much current, whereas cameron and bush have it in their past.

i dont think your comparisons hold up.

14:07 / 08.01.06

sorry;
not exactly current, but we have to assume that he has been leading the party while under the influence in recent history, and that is what people are reacting against. if he did it before and we didnt notice, then perhaps he could again, sorta thing.

16:18 / 08.01.06

So we are talking medical conditions and how they incapacitate political leaders... again returning to Churchill he was incapacitated by heart attacks both in and out of office while leading his party... And he's not the only Prime Minister who has had a heart attack in office...

But back to lib dems - the warfare is semi-open between the rebel elements of the parlimentary party and much of the rest of the party who were loyal to Kennedy.

As the preferred candidate of the rebels, Ming may well suffer from association with them (on top of his less than ringing endorsement of Kennedy in the lead up to his resignation).

It is noteworthy that Kennedy has come out as a vocal opponent of a coronation, stating that he thinks their should be a democratic election with candidates put to the party. It remains an open question if an alternative candidate con be found who would want to stand and could achieve enough support to announce their candidacy... Lembit Opik remained vocifously loyal to Kennedy (and has followed the his former leader on a chat show circuit to gaining wider recognition)...

18:15 / 08.01.06

sorry, am i to take it that i am in a minority unsurprised by kennedy losing his job after his admission?
i'm getting from a couple of posts that some feel there is significant precedent for those who have admitted publicly to drinking on the job retaining the full support and confidence of their party, and i dont feel that's accurate.

18:26 / 08.01.06

I wouldn't say I'm necessarily surprized by much in politics - (Though Tony Banks sudden stroke and likely impending death has come as something of a shock), but I don't necessarily think it was without precidence that Kennedy might have survived, nor am I entirely convinced the pressure he received from members of the PLDP and particularly from leading Lib dem MEP was entirely justified.

18:29 / 08.01.06

i wouldnt say the pressure was justified either. i can imagine it might hve been, but i really dont know enough to know if the circumstances merited that kind of action. i do doubt it though.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:42 / 09.01.06

Reading the IoS yeserday I do have some sympathy for the Party, it does seem as though Kennedy's drinking problem was more disruptive to the party than was clear previously.

10:11 / 09.01.06

So are supporters of Ming "the Merciless" Campbell Mingons or Mingers?

10:20 / 09.01.06

Depends how you feel about them I guess - perhaps they could even be Mingions if you thought them to be particularly sweet/pro European...

Tryphena Absent

12:43 / 10.01.06

So Mark Oaten has thrown himself into the foray. I thought he was okay until I read his website.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:24 / 10.01.06

Mmmm. Call me a picky pedant, but I tend to like the people who propose policy on euthanasia to be able to spell it.

16:58 / 10.01.06

Which views did you find particularly egregious, nina?

Flyboy- why not write him an email and point out his mistake?

I'm glad that *someone* has stood to make this a contested election, and with one member, one vote, at least the grass roots membership and activists will have a say in the leadership now. I wonder if Simon Hughes will stand now?

Tryphena Absent

10:05 / 11.01.06

Abortion, euthanasia and his voting record on hunting- I don't mind the odd view that differs to mine but fundamentally these things give me the feeling that he's following a party line and that he's far more conservative than he appears on various TV programmes and in media coverage.

11:02 / 11.01.06

That site if chock full of typos, spelling mistakes, and bad grammar.

Tryphena Absent

11:11 / 11.01.06

I don't really mind if party leaders can't write, in fact it recommends him to me that he hasn't had it edited.

17:04 / 11.01.06

Because it's not inhumanly sterile and still has some grit in the cracks? If so, I think I can get my head around that.

06:32 / 12.01.06

yeah.
he's too busy saving the world to do a second draft.

i like menzies, but it seems a few here dont... why not?
i dont have any really good solid reasons why he is a Hero not a Villain, but i would appreciate any information either way.

so far my opinion is based upon his televison and radio appearances and the fact that he comes across well.
of all the lib dems i have seen he seems the most likely to be able to run a government if given the chance.

12:34 / 12.01.06

Ming scored a spectatcular own goal at PMQs yesterday...

12:50 / 12.01.06

I have always respected Menzies, but am sad about the whole situation as it appears more and more apparent that for years now, his followers and supporters were the ones behind the famous and long whispering campaign against Kennedy. This makes me less happy about his being leader, in part through association (those same whisperers will be propelled to the front(ish) bench). I feel that the party itself is being tarnished not only by the booze thing, but more so by these extended politickings which are entirely the sort of thing that many supporters sought to eschew by avoiding the two larger parties.

I also feel that Menzies is too old to be a good, long-term leader for the party. But am as yet fairly underwhelmed by the other prospects...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:01 / 22.01.06

So, Mark Oaten quit on Thursday and last night we found out why. Some people say cynically that any publicity for the Lib Dems is good publicity, still others that by having a sex scandal the Lib Dems are trying to show they are just the same as the big two parties but is this, along with Kennedy's party-aided fall and Ming's age going to doom the Lib Dems to being lead by the bland Simon Hughes?

08:46 / 22.01.06

Simon Hughes bland? The man is a veritable Falstaff when compared to certain ex-Prime Ministers we have known...

But yeah, it does seem like the Lib-dems are attempting to fit the last decade or so of Tory sex scandles and infighting into a space of a few weeks.

It also seems apparent that there are some very nasty people in the lib-dems, briefing against their own MPS... does this actually signify their start as a proper political party?

And poor Lembit Opik... doggedly loyal to every doomed candidate going.

11:42 / 22.01.06

And yeah - while Mark Oaten might have had sex with a rent boy, that's hardly a disqualification for a successful Liberalm leader since, as noted before, Jeremy Thorpe more than doubled the size of the party under his tenure and not only did he have sex with other men, but also allegedly arranged to have them killed in case they spilled the beans after the affair was over... or maybe that's not such a great precident to follow...

Psi-L is working in hell

17:16 / 22.01.06

I reckon that the Lib Dems have maybe decided to take a novel approach to their leadership election - a sort of 'last man standing approach'. I wouldn't be very suprised to find that the red tops are sniffing around Simon Hughes now to see if they can topple him too....not that I'd particularly mind that outcome either.

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