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Extreme forms of prejudice considered as mental illness

 
  

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zoemancer
05:31 / 02.03.06
Seems to me this baby (300 year old) Neuro Priesthood was concocted to further our understanding of the human mind through reason and empirical method, perhaps in order to put an end to witch-burning, left-hand-binding, Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and other, nasty, bloodily-accepted-reality-defining habits of the grandaddy (1000+ year old) Ecclesiastical Priesthood?

Point taken. I agree that reason and empirical method brought us out of the Dark Ages but the problem I have with that is that it created a left brain dominate paradigm which excludes the invisible, spiritual, etc.

That leaves us at a denial of a large part of our experience. Not all truth can be discovered using the scientific method.

I don't necessarily equate Reason though with inventing labels(so called disorders) for human experience that falls outside of the dominate paradigm. So instead of left-hand-binding we prescribe chemicals designed to make the afflicted person more the way we think they should be.

Could it be the lack of respect for the invisible worlds and the spiritual that contributes to depression and so called disorders? Maybe the disorders are really NATURAL human reactions to an unnatural environment.

It's alot like how "modern" medical science (trauma and surgery aside) seems to only treat symptoms and doesn't really ever dig deeper into underlying causes like say older eastern or indigenous tribal cultures.

I think it is ridiculous that medical students are not required to take nutrition classes. So much of what goes wrong with people is based on what they are phsycially putting into their body every single day as well as the kind of things they are thinking about most often.

Yeh so reason and empirical method are all fine and good and have their uses in the material world but they ain't the end all be all of knowledge.

Just my silly opinion which is likely to change at a moment's notice.
 
 
*
05:49 / 02.03.06
My "aggro" was because it's frustrating that you didn't seem to realize this had already been addressed in this thread, and also you missed the fact that by asserting that the profession of psychology is evil, you were personally attacking two people who contribute to this thread.

Also it's off-topic. The topic is whether, within the model of psychology and dysfunction, extreme forms of prejudice ought to be considered psychological dysfunction as much as, say, a tendency to 'hallucinate.' If you want to question psychology altogether, why not start a new thread on that topic? (I ran a cursory google search, and couldn't find a past one to resurrect.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:49 / 02.03.06
I think there was a thread on the anti-psychiatric movement: I'll dig it up ASAP. Ah, here we go.

Zoemancer: Could you relate your comments to the topic of the consideration of extreme forms of prejudice as mental illness? If psychiatry/neurology, in your opinion, has damaged our relationship to non-normative states of mind, does this include states of extreme prejudice? Is there a component of prejudice to the level of medical diagnosis that is transcendent of medical diagnosis, and requires tolerance and understanding as a mystical state?
 
 
zoemancer
14:16 / 02.03.06
id: You are entitled to you anger but I just don't get why you think by having a contridictary opinion about someone's chosen profession would be considered a "personal" attack. We are not our jobs mate just like we are not our bodies or the socks we wear. I am a computer programmer. If someone started railing against the evils of computer programming I guess my knee-jerk reaction would be to take offense but I know that is just my ego and truly my self worth lies outside of my current chosen profession therefore It would really be kind of misguided to feel like I would need to get offended and defensive about it.

You also say that my post was "off-topic" well I think that is up to debate if you go back and look at your original post I don't see any guidelines there about "how" to respond to it. We each have our own ways of responding to things right?

Haus: Here is my comment on the topic of extreme forms of prejudice as mental illness...

Begin Comment -->
I think it is ridiculous to classify someone elses dislike of anything as a mental illness. Call it "extreme prejudice" or whatever you want at the end of the day it is the right of everyone to reject whoever or whatever they wish based on any reason. The line is crossed however when someone attempts to harm another person but that's a given in any situation.
<-- End Comment

I would not say psychiatry has damaged our relationship to non-normative states of mind but that it presents a limited viewpoint in that it does not recognize the super natural. See the thing is that psychiatry and all other currently accepted theories and philosophies about who we are and what we are doing here are just useful fictions and will be obsolete in another 500 years or so. People used to think the Earth was flat until some "kook" discovered that it wasn't. Nothing is ever discovered within known territory, we have to keep moving beyond the accepted paradigm to discover anything and to evolve. Modern medical science is an arrogant philosophy. Sure it has brought perceived benefits to us but it can be just as dogmatic as the Church in that it claims to have discovered the ONLY method by which we can define reality. That's an arrogant viewpoint in my opinion.

As far as "prejudice" goes I just don't see any difference between it and any other human emotion. Is it a usefull human emotion? Probably not but I have known many people who were at one time prejudiced in some way but have since evolved and changed their minds.

This idea that we should somehow medicate people so that they are easier to control or more like some idea of what a perfect human is is a dangerous philosophy. You can't regulate or medicate a people into a utopian society by doing so you end up with a police state which is pretty much where we are at now.
 
 
*
16:08 / 02.03.06
I just don't get why you think by having a contridictary opinion about someone's chosen profession would be considered a "personal" attack. We are not our jobs mate just like we are not our bodies or the socks we wear. I am a computer programmer. If someone started railing against the evils of computer programming etc etc.

Certainly, if I said "Computer programming is a lousy profession" it would not be a personal attack. If I said "Computer programmers are destroying our society/lives/freedoms" it would be. Do you see the difference?

Seems to me this baby (300 year old) Neuro Priesthood was concocted to define the borders of "accepted" reality for the rest of us out here in the commons eh? Should we stray outside the lines we will be quickly "diagnosed" and big pharma gets a new customer.

Thousands of children each year are "diagnosed" as "insert label here" or "insert another label here" and are quickly given a lobotomy in a pill. Studies have shown that by a simple change in diet many of these kids miraculously return to normal. Not to mention the fact that humans are evolving that consciousness is evolving yet we still have a public school system based on way old out dated theories created by way old out dated minds.

I could just as easily sit here and invent a name for any human behaviour that I and my friends deemed not "normal" and if I got enough people to go along with it well then big pharma could just whip up another fucking pill for it. What fun! What power!


Do you see how here you are implying that psychiatrists are evil manipulators who exist to inflate the wallets of the drug companies? that they exist only to cause harm to perfectly healthy people who just need better diets? Not only that but your language was deliberately insulting. You might have said "Psychiatry tends to overdiagnose and overprescribe already, as supported by these studies which I've cited here and here and linked to here. Thus I feel that adding this new diagnosis would only increase the problem of psychiatric overdiagnosis." No. Instead you referred to some posters on this board as "Neuro-Priests" and strongly accused them of wrongdoing, without providing any evidence. That's unacceptable here. If you have evidence, go to the thread Haus linked and post it there. (This means don't just say "Studies show." That's not evidence. WHICH studies? WHERE? Cite them thoroughly so others can find them, or link to them. Otherwise we are within our rights to believe that you are MAKING THEM UP.)

You also say that my post was "off-topic" well I think that is up to debate if you go back and look at your original post I don't see any guidelines there about "how" to respond to it. We each have our own ways of responding to things right?

Yes, certainly we all have our own ways of responding to things. If you've read the FAQ, you know that some of them are acceptable on Barbelith and some of them are not. In fact, each forum has its own norms. In a thread that is in Head Shop, I should not have to state that I do not welcome personal attacks, that I'm not soliciting personal opinions but rather claims that are supported by evidence and reasoning, and that invoking the supernatural as an explanation is likely to get you sent to the Temple instead. I should also not have to explain what is on topic, since anyone with a modicum of internet etiquette knows you don't post to a thread until you have READ IT THOROUGHLY. If you had done this, you would know that this argument was already brought up in this thread, and it was determined that it was unsupported, a form of personal attack, and also off-topic.

That's my reading; what's yours?

This is probably where you got the idea that I was asking for unsupported opinions. I wasn't. I was asking for a reading. That means that you read the article, think about it critically, read the thread, and respond from your reasoning, supported by evidence and logic. This is different from coming into a thread, saying whatever's on your mind, and then getting condescending when people demand that you at least READ THE THREAD.

I was snippy, and I apologize for that. Please understand my position, however. This is a repeated occurrence. It happened already in this same thread, here, and Anth was better at it than you were and it was STILL off topic and unsupported. I should, however, be kinder to new posters and not go off at them like I would with an established poster making the same mistakes.

Now someone else can peer through the massive holes in the logic of your last post. I've got a paper to write. But please understand... no one is attacking you because we disagree with your position on the actual topic at hand. I don't think anyone here, including the members of the mental health care field, has actually AGREED that Stupidly Homophobic/Racist Syndrome should be considered a mental illness. What we are attacking is your reasoning, and we're only doing that to make it better.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:46 / 02.03.06
Actually, I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticise psychiatry for not recognising the supernatural. However, not in this thread, which has nothing to do with that. There's an anti-psychiatry thread linked to above, or you could start your own.
 
 
Ganesh
18:18 / 02.03.06
I would not say psychiatry has damaged our relationship to non-normative states of mind but that it presents a limited viewpoint in that it does not recognize the super natural.

As an individual psychiatrist who does "recognise the supernatural" (or at least, I think I do), I'd be very interested in your unpacking of this statement - although possibly in a thread other than this one. I understand fully the difference between Psychiatry Abstract and Psychiatrist Personal, and am hoping you will take account of this difference in your other-thread-than-this-one response.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:33 / 02.03.06
As an individual psychiatrist who does "recognise the supernatural" (or at least, I think I do)

Actually, Ganesh, I have a question for you on that matter. How do you reconcile your "non-scientific" belief with your practice? I mean, how can you tell the difference of an actual schizophrenic in need of medication from, say, a medium who's really seing something real but invisible to most people?

Bear in mind I have only a marginal, "layman", understanding of psychiatry
 
 
Ganesh
19:58 / 02.03.06
I mean, how can you tell the difference of an actual schizophrenic in need of medication from, say, a medium who's really seing something real but invisible to most people?

The question of 'reconciling' these supposedly different positions rarely, if ever, arises. I think sometimes people misunderstand that an essential element of psychiatry is the alleviation of distress - commonly the distress of the individual presenting to the psychiatrist; less commonly (and more controversially), the distress of those around him. Spiritualists almost never present to psychiatrists saying, "I'm really distressed by these voices of dead people" - presumably because a) they already have a system for making sense of those voices, and b) they're not consistently distressed by them - so a psychiatrist is almost never faced with this example.

Psychiatry is not about rigidly gouging a line between what's "real" and what's not and medicating those whose happy belief systems fall on one side of that line. It's about alleviating distress - and those who present in a distressed state are usually distressed because, in contrast to spiritualists, they have no way of stopping the voices, and have no respite from them.

So... I wouldn't ask the question, "is this real?" I'd ask the question, "is this harming or distressing anyone?"
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:04 / 02.03.06
I see. It reminds me of an Alan Moore interview in which he states that the only difference between schizophreny and "magick" is that "magick" is functional, i.e., it works to the advantage of the practioner IRL, instead of disrupting hir life.

thanks.
 
 
Ganesh
20:14 / 02.03.06
I don't think that's the only difference, but I think Moore's distinction works as a 'snapshot' ie. a cross-sectional as opposed to longitudional view of 'schizophrenia' and 'magic'.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:29 / 02.03.06
(Mod hat: A discussion of psychiatry as it relates to various forms of spirit-work might be conducted in this Temple thread, "Psychological Reductionism as Representation of Spiritual Traditions."

This thread is for discussion as to whether extreme prejudices could or should be viewed as a form of mental illness.)
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:29 / 02.03.06
We're getting waaay off topic here, somebody needs to start another thread to discuss the psychology stuff. It would be an interesting discussion, but there's already an interesting discussion to be had here.
Taking something that Zoemancer said:

I think it is ridiculous to classify someone elses dislike of anything as a mental illness. Call it "extreme prejudice" or whatever you want at the end of the day it is the right of everyone to reject whoever or whatever they wish based on any reason. The line is crossed however when someone attempts to harm another person but that's a given in any situation. (italics mine)

Okay, let's say I'm prejudiced against Latverians (I'll use a fake ethnic group to avoid any baggage associated with real groups). I refuse to speak to them, I won't employ them in my business or serve them as customers. Now, the reason I think this is because I honestly believe that all Latverians are clockwork autonamtons (sp?), sent to do evil by the dark god Captain Molestro. Given the statement above it is my 'right' to reject all Latverians for this obviously insane reason. If I were to speak with a psychologist and tell him that all Latverians are in fact clockwork robots I would be treated for this delusional belief, no differently than if I was wrapped in tinfoil to protect myself from KGB mind beams.
Now, how is my irrational belief, that has no factual support behind it whatsoever different from saying that all Jewish people drink blood and control world finance/all black people are stupid, violent criminals/all white people are conspiring to destroy other races? None have any support in logic, just as my clockwork robot/tinfoil hat theory has no logic in it. Isn't one of the goals of psychiatry, and logic in general, to correct harmful beliefs through debate and argument, and isn't racism a harmful belief, even to the racists themselves -they have a much smaller group of people they can interact with and learn from, limiting them significantly in just about every way possible, just as covering oneself in tinfoil limits the way one can interact with the world.
 
 
Ganesh
20:37 / 02.03.06
Isn't one of the goals of psychiatry, and logic in general, to correct harmful beliefs through debate and argument

If those harmful beliefs are part and parcel of illness, yes. How something comes to be seen as illness is a whole other question, including historical and theoretical viewpoints as well as the weight of evidence. I'm unconvinced that, as yet, racism has been proved via scientific method to constitute actual illness.
 
 
matthew.
03:24 / 03.03.06
[off topic]

People used to think the Earth was flat until some "kook" discovered that it wasn't.

Some "kook"? AKA the entire ancient Greek society? Their cosmology states the world is a sphere. They figured it out based on the boats disappearing into the horizon.

[/off topic]
 
 
zoemancer
21:21 / 03.03.06
id: I concede the fact that I sometimes do not use language properly to make my point. I also concede that I should have read the thread more thourougly before posting. My apologies. For the record what I was "trying" to say is that the article touched a nerve with me in that I do not find fault with the individuals who have chosen psychiatry as their profession but with some of the ideology that the profession operates with. My basic gripe is against the prescribing of drugs for
unpopular mental states when there are more natural solutions available. I also believe that we as a society need to be careful about the power we hand over to a group of people to "diagnose" us with some such mental disorder.
It's a slippery slope (excuse the cliche) that could lead to designating certain ways of thinking as "thought crimes". I personally believe that every human is entitled to think however they want even if it makes me uncomfortable.

Ganesh:Any suggestions on where to start that thread?

Phex: But what if the Latverians really are Clockwork Automatons?

Mathesis: I was being sarcastic with that "kook" remark. The point I was trying to make is that it seems that the people on the fringes of accepted reality are the ones who make the new discoveries based on teh simple fact that they are able to see beyond an accepted model of reality and become aware of something new.
 
 
Ganesh
21:25 / 03.03.06
Ganesh:Any suggestions on where to start that thread?

The Temple? But check out the similar ones already there, first; a new one may not be justified.
 
 
Ganesh
21:36 / 03.03.06
... I do not find fault with the individuals who have chosen psychiatry as their profession but with some of the ideology that the profession operates with. My basic gripe is against the prescribing of drugs for unpopular mental states when there are more natural solutions available.

I think you really need to be clear about what you're taking issue with, what you think psychiatry and psychiatrists do - because there's always a danger, with these perennially popular anti-psychiatry threads, that Psychiatry becomes a conceptual receptacle for a series of highly subjective, rather vague straw men. Here, for example, you're suggesting that psychiatrists, presumably acting on some sort of "ideology", prescribe drugs merely because a given set of phenomena is "unpopular", eschewing "natural" alternatives. There's a whole load of assumptions there, and I don't think it's that easy to divorce psychiatric practitioners from the concept of psychiatry - which is why, as one of those practitioners, I think you perhaps ought to firm up your claims a little.
 
 
*
22:31 / 03.03.06
So, as already mentioned, criticism of psychiatry in general goes in this thread here.

Criticism of psychiatry as it relates to magic goes in this thread here.

While I agree that it makes no sense to diagnose people who are otherwise functioning well but who are extremely racist or homophobic with a mental illness, I don't support their right to think that way just because I should be respectful of other people's diverse opinions and experiences. What about their respect for my diverse opinions and experiences? Certain life philosophies are going to lead people inevitably into conflict with others where someone will be harmed. If one holds a philosophy which states that all people of French-Canadian descent are morally and intellectually inferior to non-French-Canadians, eventually one will act on that philosophy in a way that infringes on the rights of French-Canadians to be treated equally. One cannot hold a belief truly and sincerely for very long without it affecting their actions in some way. A society where a large number of people hold these beliefs is simply a society which doesn't treat others equally. It's perfectly valid to want to change this society so that it DOES treat others equally, even if that involves aggressive education toward people who hold racist and homophobic beliefs. Certainly there are lengths to which you do not go to educate people who are unwilling, and medicating someone against their will who is not suffering (especially when there is not a lot of evidence, as here, that medication can do anything to change the situation) is one of those lengths.
 
 
*
01:01 / 04.03.06
Here's something else interesting:

Overlooking racism may lead to undiagnosed mental health disorders
NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Mental health professionals may be missing at least five novel mental health problems because the impact of racism is not considered when determining mental health, a new report suggests.

Tony N. Brown, Vanderbilt University assistant professor of sociology, asserts in the report that standard mental health criteria may fail to capture a true picture of problems across racial groups. That failure in turn, leads to some psychological problems going unclassified and undiagnosed.

"We don't know what is deviant if we don't know what the norm is and the norm is dictated by society's beliefs, which vary across racial groups. For example, the black community may question the sanity of blacks who bleach their skin or blacks who 'hate being black,' but these lay definitions of poor mental health are ignored by mental health professionals," Brown said.

"Combining lay and clinical definitions and considering racism's impact on mental health could offer a more complete picture of mental health disorders," Brown added.

...

Mental health research has hinted that a complex relationship between racism and mental health exists – but the link has not yet been fully explored.

The conventional wisdom in the field of mental health is that the more stress a person is exposed to, the more likely it is that he or she will suffer from poor mental health. However, community epidemiological studies conducted during the past 20 years indicate that blacks, relative to whites, exhibit about the same, or in some cases lower rates of psychiatric disorder – despite blacks' stress levels being compounded by racism.

Brown believes racism's not being factored into the mental health equation accounts for some of the disparity.

In the report, Brown proposes five mental health problems related to racism that he believes are the most prevalent and impairing. He focuses on these five because available evidence offers strongest support that these problems exist.

They are:

* Nihilistic Tendencies – self-defeating attempts to survive in a society that systematically frustrates normal efforts for natural human growth. According to the report, this mental health problem is likely to affect blacks that, finding the doors to legitimate survival blocked, have chosen destructive means to achieve immediate needs and desires out of an urgency to survive.
* Anti-self Issues – a mental health problem that describes how blacks feel estranged from their racial selves and seek to escape their blackness and any connection to other blacks. Estranged blacks have internalized negative notions about being black that result in disdain for their racial group and their trying to create social and physical space between themselves and their group.
* Suppressed Anger Expression – denial of anger and aggression that leads to false affability, passivity, resignation and ultimately withdrawal or inward self-destruction. In social or workplace settings, blacks may feel they are denied the liberty of expressing anger about racial issues which can build up over time to detrimental effects.
* Delusional Denial Tendencies – a mental health problem that can affect both blacks and whites. In response to racism, blacks may repress unpleasant or painful ideas from reaching the conscious level and ultimately generating disability. Researchers have also theorized that whites are socialized to believe that they do not benefit from racial oppression and that they do not need to consider the role race plays in their lives.
* Extreme Racial Paranoia – a mental health problem typically affecting whites who hold illusions of exaggerated self-importance based on race and who experience unreasonable discomfort at the thought of having an interpersonal interaction with a black person. Brown cites research that has called extreme racial paranoia among whites a serious mental illness.

Brown suggests that more research is needed to verify these mental health problems and to explore the relationship between racism and mental health across all racial groups. He also cautions against the acceptance of standardized concepts of mental health because the dominant group in society often defines normalcy and disease. He cites the example of white psychiatrists in the 19th century who claimed black slaves suffered from "drapetomania" – a "psychiatric disorder indicated by a desire to run away from slavery."
 
 
zoemancer
04:04 / 04.03.06
Ganesh Ok I will meet you in discussion about my views but first you have to admit that psychiatry has not always existed and humans got along just fine without it for centuries and that it might not exist in the distant future.

In other words it is a useful fiction - a temporary theory created by men to somehow deal with the realities of being human. In other times and other places men invented temporary theories to somehow deal with the realities of being human those theories eventually faded away as do all things eventually. So it is with psychiatry.

Also please admit that you understand that you as a living immortal spirit are not your thoughts or beliefs about psychiatry that you are separate from the theory of psychiatry. If we are to have a meaninful conversation on this subject we must get past the sophomoric association of one's self worth with what one currently believes to be true.

I in turn will do the same by stating right off the bat that I am a total fool and know nothing about nothing. I do however have a few pet beliefs and theories. Should those theories and beliefs become false in the face of a new truth then I will discard them.

Agreed?
 
 
iconoplast
04:55 / 04.03.06
In other words it is a useful fiction - a temporary theory created by men to somehow deal with the realities of being human. In other times and other places men invented temporary theories to somehow deal with the realities of being human those theories eventually faded away as do all things eventually. So it is with psychiatry.

In other words it is a useful fiction - a temporary theory created by men to somehow deal with the realities of WHY THINGS FALL. In other times and other places men invented temporary theories to somehow deal with the realities of WHY THINGS FALL those theories eventually faded away as do all things eventually. So it is with GRAVITY
 
 
Ganesh
07:47 / 04.03.06
I think, again, that this is a subject for another thread, but will respond to it in this thread for now. If this is a line of discussion you want to continue, perhaps it's worth picking a more general 'what is psychiatry' type home for it.

Ok I will meet you in discussion about my views but first you have to admit that psychiatry has not always existed and humans got along just fine without it for centuries and that it might not exist in the distant future.

"Admit" what? Firstoff, you need to be clear about what you mean here when you say "psychiatry". Are you talking specifically about pharmacotherapy? Or perhaps the Mental Health Act stuff: the idea of overruling someone on mental health grounds?

The history of psychiatry is fairly complex. You need to be clear about whether you're talking about a particular modern incarnation. I'm also a little wary of your use of "admit" here.

In other words it is a useful fiction - a temporary theory created by men to somehow deal with the realities of being human. In other times and other places men invented temporary theories to somehow deal with the realities of being human those theories eventually faded away as do all things eventually. So it is with psychiatry.

Again, "useful fiction" and "temporary theory" would seem to suggest that you're referring to a single theory or strand of psychiatry. I suspect I'm taking a rather wider view here than yourself, and I think it'd be useful firstoff to hear what you mean by "psychiatry" in this context - and whether it's more or less of a "useful fiction"/"temporary theory" than the rest of medicine, and why.

Also please admit that you understand that you as a living immortal spirit are not your thoughts or beliefs about psychiatry that you are separate from the theory of psychiatry. If we are to have a meaninful conversation on this subject we must get past the sophomoric association of one's self worth with what one currently believes to be true.

As an avowed agnostic, I'm hardly in a position to "admit" anything of the sort concerning my immortality or spirituality. If you're asking whether my entire identity is tied up in the label 'psychiatrist' then no, it isn't. Psychiatry is what I do, though, what I trained for, and I don't simply and cynically do it for the paycheck. As with, I think, all of my colleagues, I have a complex, evolving, individual take on illness as a general concept and on the huge variety of disparate illness entities: for me, there is not and cannot be a single, overarching "theory of psychiatry" any more than there can be a single "theory of medicine" or "theory of illness"; rather, there are a series of overlapping theories, paradigms and evidence clusters which a psychiatrist, like any other clinician, must evaluate for himself, marry with his own clinical observations/experiences, and apply on an ongoing basis.

So... if we are to have a meaningful conversation, we have to get past the apparent impasse in understanding created by your seeming attempt to reduce something fairly complex to a single "theory" capable of being proved or disproved. You need to outline what you understand by "psychiatry" and "the theory of psychiatry".

I'd be grateful also if you'd tone down the patronisometer. I studied at medical school for five fucking years for one degree, trained for six years for the second and have worked in this field for well over a decade. Frankly, I object to being labelled "sophomoric".
 
 
Ganesh
08:16 / 04.03.06
Back on topic, Entity, I'm interesting in Brown's viewpoint. There is a general tendency, more so in the US than in the rest of the world (and reflected in US diagnostic classification systems), to want to medicalise any expression of distress. Capitalise it, add "Issues" or "Tendencies" and there we go: Psychodiagnostogenic Syndrome.

I'd agree with him that there's inevitably going to be a political aspect to psychiatry, if only because of the varying genetic make-up of different subgroups and, more pertinently, the negative psychological effects of shifting geography (stresses around immigration) and occupying a particular place within society. We could equally dissect the different rates of psychiatric illness in refugees, those in the lower economic brackets, gay people or women - and, if we so desired, produce lengthy lists of "Issues" and "Tendencies" specific to the mental health of those groups. Indeed, some such subgroup-specific diagnoses do exist (post-natal depression, ego-dystonic homosexuality). I'm not convinced, however, that there's particular value in endlessly subdividing broad diagnostic categories such as 'depression' into an infinite series of subsets. It's recognised that stress and stigma predispose to illness, and certain groups are consequently more likely to become ill. It's also recognised that manifestations of distress and/or illness are going to vary between groups and, indeed, individuals - so black people may have "Anti-Self Issues", gay people "Internalised Homophobia", blah blah blah.

I'd disagree with Brown's assertion that psychiatric systems of classification ought to incorporate "lay definition" - particularly given his own use of pseudodiagnosese. I'm concerned that, while his use of terms like "delusional" and "paranoia" may make perfect sense to him, a sociologist, their psychiatric meaning is (or, at least, used to be) more specific, and using them in this way corrupts that meaning. I suspect I'm fighting an uphill battle here, though...
 
 
Ganesh
08:34 / 04.03.06
(Incidentally, Entity,

Criticism of psychiatry as it relates to magic goes in this thread here

you've linked to the same thread twice...)
 
 
*
15:24 / 04.03.06
Thanks for that, Ganesh; I put it up for moderation but you probably beat me to it.

Will post more later. In the meantime, zoemancer, do not continue your criticisms of psychiatry in general until you have moved to the other thread where they are appropriate, please. We want to discuss them, but in the meantime you're rotting this thread.
 
  

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