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Meeting with a local occult group; how to tell they're legit?

  
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:31 / 25.04.06
Of course, part of this is down to the language issue... need to work on my Castillian magic vocab (and ideally, learn Catalan. Bad invader).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:58 / 16.05.07
Well this is no fucking good at all. A year on and I'm no closer to establishing a group than I was the last ime I posted.

I'm having real problems meeting people who I can gel with. Socially I'm pretty maladroit, which doesn't help. Other problems include, but are not limited to:

People who think that their trad is How You Do Magic, and because I'm working differently then I must be ignorant and not worth bothering with.

People who think that magic which actually does anything is Evil.

People who have horrible horrible bigoted notions about African-diaspora trads. (Do not fucking go off on one about the cruelty and horror of animal sacrifice whilst shovelling beef ravioli into your face. Wanker.)

Folkists.

I refuse to believe that Barcelona is made of wank. I reckon I need a different approach though because sticking ads up on Loquo and in the local magic shoppes is getting me nowhere. I need a new plan of attack. Plz advise?
 
 
Quantum
09:23 / 16.05.07
Find a pub named El Arado?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:26 / 16.05.07
Dude, there's a bar down the road from me called La Bruja and I still can't get a break!
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:01 / 16.05.07
Advertisments would seem to be the best (or at least most efficient) way to get a group together that's formed out of the kind of people you're looking for though.

Perhaps advertising in a local newspaper instead might work, something that might draw the attention of (and forgive me if this is the wrong way of putting it) non-scene magicians. I guess you could ask them to write to an email account you made for the purpose detailing things such as general experience, attitude to other methodologies, etc and decide from there if they were what you were looking for.
 
 
Pyewacket The Elder
11:18 / 16.05.07
Probably considered this I'm guessing, but it may be worth expanding the area that you advertise to (and the media you use)- a once monthly meet-up that requires a little travel might be preferable to no group at all.

How you pitch your advertising may influence things. If you are looking for peeps who do what you do you may be limiting likely response (given locale, and possible magickal cultures in the vicinity). If you are looking for a group who's nature would essentially be eclectic enough to allow for both group and individual learning then it may be worth using the word 'chaos' (or even 'Wicca') somewhere on your advertisments even if this be entirely outside of your actual interests.

To be honest whatever path someone identifies with you'd be sure to meet some peeps who would appreciate the supportive environment of a group so long as group aims can be decided on in manner that accounts for the intentions of all those involved.

Best of luck with your searches!
 
 
Quantum
12:00 / 16.05.07
La Bruja

Aha, there's your problem right there- you need a bar called El Tremere.
You could persuade people you already know to move to Barca, that might work. I'm surprised there's not already something around though, have you thoroughly searched the spanish web?
 
 
Ticker
13:15 / 16.05.07
Well I know this may sound a bit odd but have you:

1. Checked with your People as to what's up? Are you supposed to be working with others right now or not?

2. Checked with yourself that your aversion /distrust /discomfort of others is not sabotaging setting things up?

I know the last one seems a bit wonky as these are legit concerns but I do often find when a large chunk of a magical practitioner is not signed up for their intent that chunk can be digging its heels in and stubbornly keeping things from manifesting. AFAIK most of the rituals proscribed for aligning intent are designed to get these pieces of the self to join in. If you don't they block really effectively.

If you probe around (yes like a tongue looking for a sore tooth) where is the resistance coming from? External or internal?
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:45 / 16.05.07
Could try setting up MSN and Yahoo groups for the area Barcelona occultists or whatever, or perhaps just the whole of spain, sure somebody has got that covered already, can be a way to screen people you communicate with as well.
 
 
EmberLeo
20:04 / 16.05.07
Maybe it's not so much where you're posting as WHAT you're posting.

Perhaps you'd have better luck if you posted something a bit sideways to what you're looking for, like offerring up a discussion group or class on a related skills topic and see who shows up with an interest in those skills?

That might attract folks who are more eclectic, and interesting but not specifically looking to join a working group with a total stranger.

--Ember--
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:54 / 16.05.07
Ev. Sci.: Advertisments would seem to be the best (or at least most efficient) way to get a group together that's formed out of the kind of people you're looking for though.

I certainly intend to continue, I just don't seem to have had much luck so far. Maybe I need to look harder for appropriate places to advertise...

IVoR: I'm pretty flexible ATM. I've essentially been plugging every magic/occult/etc term I could think of into my ads (yup, including Wicca and chaos), but no luck. (People here tend to assume you're a Wiccan anyhow; for English-speaking publications, I'd put myself down as "heathen" but in Castillian I'm a pagana or nowt, and that seems to get parsed as Wiccan 9 times out of 10.)

Quants: My operatives will be passing through your area shortly. Please proceed to the appointed location and wait.

Wolf/Raniel: Not a bad idea. I'm already on a lot of general BCN-and-surrounding-districts mailing lists; maybe I could find something a bit more specific.

EmberLeo: Perhaps you'd have better luck if you posted something a bit sideways to what you're looking for, like offerring up a discussion group or class on a related skills topic and see who shows up with an interest in those skills?

Yeah, not a bad idea; I've been thinking about putting together a discussion group on, say, runes, for awhile now, so that might work as a jumping-on point. I'm not really looking to start a working group in the short to medium term, more like find some likeminded people and see what develops.

XK/BiHB:have you:

1. Checked with your People as to what's up? Are you supposed to be working with others right now or not?

Ohyes. There's some poking in that regard, not to mention the whole "but what do you MEAN there's no-one here for Me to talk to? This is the part where I jump in your head and w/We wake everyone up for a chat!" vibe I often get during workings.

2. Checked with yourself that your aversion /distrust /discomfort of others is not sabotaging setting things up?

Le sigh. I fear you may have hit the nail on the head.

I know the last one seems a bit wonky as these are legit concerns ... If you probe around (yes like a tongue looking for a sore tooth) where is the resistance coming from? External or internal?

Well there's probably going to be a chunk of aversion/distrust etc of others that I will take to the grave with me, although over the years I've got it down from being a huge mountainous THING blocking any progress without monumental effort and possibly Oliphaunts to a halfbrick that I stub my toe on now and again.

What I am getting... nnngpokepokepoke... I'm sort of not quite there with anything. I think that's going to be a big problem even in the kind of contexts I envisage (pub moots, discussion groups etc), where no-one in particular is setting themselves up to be an expert. I guess I'd have to articulate it as a profound sense of my insufficiency for any particular purpose.

Mmm. Have to go off and think about that.
 
 
EmberLeo
07:59 / 17.05.07
Well, I know more than one group that got started as a study group for the Runes

--Ember--
 
 
illmatic
08:56 / 17.05.07
To be honest, I’m not surprised you’re finding it difficult to meet people. The Magickz of any stripe is a weird, esoteric, minority pursuit, the field is beset and escapists and arseholes, and life’s momentum renders it hard for anyone to claw out the space for a personal practice. It is hard to meet to meet people who are a) into magic/paganism/wicca of any form, b) not arseholes, c) into their personal practice in any kind of serious way beyond the kind of the odd tarot reading and “things-are-a-bit-weirdddd!” kinda thang, and d) on a similar path to yourself, similar enough to share meaningfully with meaningfully.

I’ve been lucky enough to have some people around me in London but these reasons are mostly historical i.e. my connections come through the revival of a network that was established 20+ years ago. Even with that, one of my main contacts still lives on the other side of the world!

What exactly are you looking for? That might help define things for you. People to share with or “just” people who practice?
 
 
illmatic
08:58 / 17.05.07
Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but I think it's true. I was trying to provide a corrective to some of the above, which sounds to me almost like you were blaming yourself.
 
 
EmberLeo
18:42 / 17.05.07
It certainly depends on where you live, anyway. It's not terribly hard to find serious Pagans in the Bay Area - even if you keep the proportion to less serious pagans. I can easily see why this would be significantly less true in Spain.

--Ember--
 
 
Ticker
19:13 / 17.05.07

TTS perhaps you should offer a free class on an interesting occult topic and see who shows up then network.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:30 / 17.05.07
I could... but like I say I don't really feel like I'm there with anything, you know? I'm not really well-versed enough in any one topic to speak on it. I know enough about this or that to get by, like I know enough Catalan to buy bread and beer but not enough to write a poem.
 
 
illmatic
06:27 / 18.05.07
I'm not really well-versed enough in any one topic to speak on it.

That blatantly isn't true. The language thing I can understand, nerves I can understand, not wanting the hassle and aggro of organising I can understand, but I don't believe you lack the knowledge to talk on say, Loki.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:06 / 18.05.07
Well maybe Loki. But dude, the NT end of things is basically all I can talk about with any confidence, and giving a talk on Loki is automatically going to scare off a whole lot of people. I tend to find it's best to avoid the whole Son of Laufey issue until people have got to know me. He tends to make everyone nervous.
 
 
EmberLeo
09:20 / 18.05.07
Hmmm. You'd be surprised how little it takes to get a ball rolling on a topic. You'd also be surprised how little you need to know if you're teaching folks who know even less, or are always interested in a new perspective on the topic.

I say this from a certain amount of practical experience, both direct and indirect. Every year I help folks make a fair sized Pagan convention called PantheaCon happen.

I have to say, plenty of people who know far less than you about far less interesting things than you hold their own just fine for an hour or two on the things that interest them.

Two things are required: You should genuinely care about the topic, and you should know ahead of time at least general points you'd like to make.

Also note: Exercises can eat up a great deal of time.

And last but not least: If what you want to do is get a discussion or study group going, you only need to know enough to keep things organized. That's one reason the Runes make a good jumping off point. They're already organized. If you want to do a single class on them, you won't have time to get into things beyond a beginners level anyway.

If you do a longer series you can hold a years worth of monthly meetings on two runes at a time, or one rune every-other week. And then all you need to do is do enough research to get the ball rolling before each class, and ask that others look into it themselves, so you all have something to discuss.

Don't overestimate what others expect of you. As long as you're totally sincere, and keeping things organized, it'll be just fine.

--Ember--
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:41 / 18.05.07
I dunno, I mean you're probably right, but I just have this mental image of my setting up a class and having a couple of the attendees be like ultra-beardy capital-Á Ásatruar with like 5 degrees between them in this stuff. I have a mortal dread of being asked complex scary questions which I can't answer.

Which is mental, but my brane won't listen to reason.
 
 
EmberLeo
10:55 / 18.05.07
I think you would find that most folks with that much under their belt will have more sympathy for your position as a result of similar experiences.

At least all the PhD Well-Experienced Heathens I've ever met certain would.

--Ember--
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:39 / 18.05.07
It shouldn't really be any different from the various writings that you've published. You can speak from your experience of practicing this stuff, which is far more valuable than a lecture by someone who has never picked up the phone (or horn of mead, or whatever). So long as you stick to your honest experience and make sure all of your historical, non-experiential material is sound and well sourced to the best of your knowledge, you should be fine. And if anyone gives you any shit, just smite them with your hammer.
 
 
Quantum
15:09 / 18.05.07
What Gypsy said.
 
 
EmberLeo
19:39 / 18.05.07
Heck, Gypsy, that's a bonus layer of competence in an organizer where I come from. But then it depends on whether you're proposing to run a presentation or just to instigate a study group.

--Ember--
 
 
Ticker
19:51 / 18.05.07
TTS, you do know you can horse or be shadowed for the scary questions to get correct answers, yes?

Plus every expert and/or reasonable person I respect understands a well placed 'I don't know but can find out' response.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:10 / 18.05.07
XK: You have a point, but I don't trust my horsing abilities that far. For obvious reasons they don't get much of a public workout. I mean, I trust them enough to get info for myself, and maybe to present it in written form with big fat UPG WARNING lables slapped all over it. I'd also be a bit concerned about allowing an overshadowing to take place in a public setting in case it turned into somthing a bit more drastic. Maybe that's a completely unrealistic fear, but the thing is I just don't know that much about how all this works to be sure...
 
 
EmberLeo
23:23 / 18.05.07
I'd also be a bit concerned about allowing an overshadowing to take place in a public setting in case it turned into somthing a bit more drastic. Maybe that's a completely unrealistic fear, but the thing is I just don't know that much about how all this works to be sure..

I'd have to say from experience that it's NOT an unrealistic fear. Personally, I wouldn't do that unless I had a wrangler with me - especially if it was Loki I was carrying. I've carried and I've wrangled in random public for one or another reason, and there are very good reasons it shouldn't be done without backup.

But that's if you'd be carrying more than a shadow. I imagine a light shadow is something you're quite used to carrying on a regular basis regardless of your location, yes?

--Ember--
 
 
Olulabelle
07:14 / 19.05.07
TTS, you do know you can horse or be shadowed for the scary questions to get correct answers, yes?

What does horsing mean?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:53 / 19.05.07
Mooncat-Lula: Horsing is allowing a spirit to possess you--being "ridden" by the spirit.

Ember: Yeah, it seems like I'm overshadowed pretty much all the time now, with maybe a few days' downtime here and there to let me collect myself and recalibrate.

If it's very light I kind of put the influence into the background as politely as possible. Like "Okay, thanks for being here, please enjoy whatever you've come to enjoy and let me know if You need anything specific, but I'd appreciate staying in the driver's seat for now."

The more intense stuff... It gets a bit much at times, TBH, a bit overwhelming. I tend to deal with it by taking myself off somewhere I can process the contact--movement (dancing), painting, drawing, writing, handling items that could benefit from having a spirit's "fingerprints" on them, that kind of thing.

Although I have a sort of gentleman's agreement with my patron--I agree to put aside the odd night to wear His special red shirt and invite Him down, and He agrees not to jump in my head if it's going to get me fired or hospitalised or arrested, I kind of feel that a roomful of people who are there to learn about Him might be a bit too much of a temptation, you know?
 
 
Unconditional Love
10:12 / 19.05.07
Its good to sort out all possible difficulty's before taking an under taking but at some point you have to think well, i have been over it, now i just have to get on and do it and see what comes of it, because i will never know whether all my concerns and planning will ever pay off until i act on my desire to do what it is i have been planning to do and have been paying a great deal of attention to and planning.

Could you set a date and begin preparation? If you gave yourself a fixed point in time, it can often spur the unconscious to bring its full bearing on the matter at hand, preparations and concerns then seem to have a way of taking care of themselves with a little conscious attention here and there.
 
 
EmberLeo
21:37 / 22.05.07
I kind of feel that a roomful of people who are there to learn about Him might be a bit too much of a temptation, you know?

Yeeaaah. That's actually why I wouldn't start with a lecture on Him.

--Ember--
 
 
Ticker
02:27 / 23.05.07
I get the overshadowing by the Hat often. In the grocery store, in the street, and worse it's on in the office occassionally.
Even more fun is when it just is 'on'. It seems mostly triggered by people asking me things but sometimes it walks me on over to get involved the affairs of others.

However the one time it is really fantastic to have on (in full or partial mode) is during presentations.

Considering Lula's question above I should explain that by Hat I mean a role, usually for me it's Priestess/Wise Woman. There's a few more starting to come online which are not yet comfy. I also access Bard/Scholar which these days I see as a subset of the Priestess/Wise Woman.

When a Hat comes online it doesn't feel like an external Personality it feels like Job With Tasks, A Checklist, and Here's That Required Information You'll Need But Didn't Have A Clue About Five Minutes Ago.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:37 / 23.05.07
I don't really have anything like that Hat. I have my teacher-persona, which I slip into very naturally at work, but that's really just me but bigger and a bit nicer. It doesn't know anything I don't.
 
 
Ticker
15:14 / 23.05.07
Maybe you could ask about getting the Teacher Hat from NT Folks?
 
  

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