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The Prisoner... returns?

 
  

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Phex: Dorset Doom
23:15 / 19.11.05
From Slashdot

So, it looks as though, maybe, somebody's going to remake what is probably my favorite TV show of all time (closely followed by Oz- analyze how you will). I really don't know what to feel about this: on one hand if they stick close to the source material then there is potential, on t'other: a very large baloon surely sits alongside the Daleks in the realm of 'why was that ever scary?' monsters (yet without Rover, is it really The Prisoner?).
How does everybody feel about this? Can something as esoteric as The Prisoner make it in today's TV world without losing everything that made it good in the first place?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:59 / 19.11.05
No fucking chance. Look at some of what makes the original series so good, then try to imagine Sky giving it the go-ahead to air.

An non-linear storyline, based in a continuous reality but with a total lack of plot continuity - some of that unintentional, maybe, but still a fundamental part of the show. A series that never provides the viewer with an answer as to what the hell's going on. A series without a single piece of backstory other than what the viewer imagines for hirself. A series that's seriously ramshackle and distinctly low-budget in a lot of places, with some moments that are utter rubbish in and of themselves, but where that sense of things having been cobbled together adds to the skewiff atmosphere. A series with only one returning character whose motivations and personality change week in, week out as the different writers fail to communicate with each other. A series that places the importance of individual moments and ideas above that of fitting those moments and ideas into something coherent.

Many of those things happy accidents. Now picture a room full of faceless norks in suits watching it and deciding what goes, what stays. It's going to be one of those situations where all they take from the original is the name, so that they can try and guarantee an audience. For that audience, it'll be pointless.

The best thing about it, as ever, is that if it's actually happening it might lead to some decent documentaries about the original and a repackaged DVD boxset with extra material. The worst thing is that there'll be yet another piece of shit TV series to throw onto the ever-growing pile. I can live with that.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
01:05 / 20.11.05
Better than the Nick Cage movie rumor set in America.
 
 
matthew.
02:50 / 20.11.05
Nicholas Cage to stick to playing Charlie Kauffman....

Here's the ultimate: the exact same scripts, but with a bigger budget and better special effects. One can dream....

The abstract for this thread is pure genius. It should win an Barb-award or something.
 
 
Seth
03:18 / 20.11.05
It's almost certainly going to be Enemy of the State. And it may even be quite good.

But it cannot ever compare to its source material. The Prisoner is bloody-minded, bizarre and one-off original. British or American TV just isn't set up to do this any more, and even if it was they wouldn't have the balls.

If you want something that honours the spirit of the original show in its defiantly off-the-wall genius then you have to look to stuff like Serial Experiments: Lain or FLCL.
 
 
Ganesh
04:37 / 20.11.05
Here's the ultimate: the exact same scripts, but with a bigger budget and better special effects.

Always the 'high production values'... While we're about it, why not set it in LA?!!1

My point: with something as esoteric and serendipitous as The Prisoner, a good chunk of its compelling oddness arises from the juxtaposition of parochially futuristic design and ideas which, even now, seem both apposite and radical. Divorcing it of its context would strip away much of that heady period glamour to produce a diluted facsimile - even with slavish adherence to the original scripts.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
05:38 / 20.11.05
The only way I could see it not sucking completely would be if they did a Battlestar Galactica- did something completely different, basically. Something that would work now, rather than something that worked wonderfully back then but would look shit if recreated in 2005.
 
 
Ganesh
06:33 / 20.11.05
So why not be inspired by The Prisoner but produce something altogether different, and avoid comparisons altogether?
 
 
invisible_al
09:10 / 20.11.05
If they managed to do a Battlestar Galactica to this I would hoist the flags and shout from the rooftops...but somehow I'm just not feeling very positive about this y'know. Remaking the Prisoner *shakes head* what on earth are they thinking, for a start they'd have to have someone as good as McGoohan and just as loopy. Any candidates out there?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:55 / 20.11.05
Well, a good 40% to 60% of the original Prisoner sucked too, so if they dumped the scripts they've got a chance.

I'm also dubious as the source is 'This is London', which isn't exactly a hotbed of informed journalism. I thought McGoohan bought back the rights to his baby so this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I can see Sky doing a Hex, take the vague idea of the show, change the name, make the main character a young woman, throw in a few lesbians and then promote the hell out of it for Sunday night to try and destract from Chris Evans new ITV show Oh Shit it's Sunday (although that will have been cancelled by the time this makes it to air). I'd be surprised if Sky wanted to spend money on the rights to something like The Prisoner.
 
 
Ganesh
10:36 / 20.11.05
Well, a good 40% to 60% of the original Prisoner sucked too, so if they dumped the scripts they've got a chance.

As E Randy points out, the moments of suckiness not infrequently add to the atmosphere of the original.
 
 
Benny the Ball
10:50 / 20.11.05
I agree with Genesh - make something inspired by the show - it is so of the time and the mood that a remake just makes me worry, gritty, dark all those crappy descriptives that people use to make things sound adult come to mind. Besides, no names were used, why remake, the premise is still there - the village has been moved, the process remains. Let's hope they don't over ham the number 2's.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:09 / 20.11.05
If they managed to do a Battlestar Galactica to this I would hoist the flags and shout from the rooftops...but somehow I'm just not feeling very positive about this y'know.

Oh yeah, I just said it would be the only way I could see it working- not that I actually expect them to do that. I'm guessing it'll be balls. Not big, sinister inflatable ones, either- just balls.

Ganesh- I wondered that about Galactica too. But that's really a question with no fixed answer- see also Constantine.
 
 
Ganesh
15:14 / 20.11.05
Not seen Constantine but neither the old nor the new Battlestar Galactica did much for me, so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment on the revisionist 'successes'.
 
 
_pin
16:52 / 20.11.05
Look at some of what makes the original series so good, then try to imagine Sky giving it the go-ahead to air.

Randius, are you on crack?

A TV show that revels in the fact that it consists of an arbitrary number of episodes? Episodes that you can screen in almost any order you like, and no one will ever know? A dedicated fanbase that does not carry these facts like scars, does not write you endless letters about how these facts are actual literal scars and then fuck off to make their own movies but instead venerates these facts as if television was always meant to be nonsequential in plot and random in time duration?

It's the most Murdoch-friendly television show of all time! The only way this could be any better is with a T3000-era X-Files crossover and, yes, the entirety of LA is the Village.

Or they kidnap McGoohan and just have him wandering around the building being bullied by a harsh and autocratic TV production company bureaucracy.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:05 / 20.11.05
Ganesh- I actually meant it the other way round with Constantine (ie they should have just called it something different). But rereading that post, it's fairly incoherent. I'd just woken up.
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
08:47 / 21.11.05
pin: ...the entirety of LA is the Village.

This seems to be the concept that Warren Ellis is using in Desolation Jones.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
12:41 / 21.11.05
"Well, a good 40% to 60% of the original Prisoner sucked too, so if they dumped the scripts they've got a chance."

... is crack coming out of vending machines now? Or is sarcasm just out of practice?

The Prisoner is without a doubt the most important program ever shown on TV (not saying much for a program that gave us 'Connections' one moment and 'Who's the Boss' the next, but still).

How 40-60% of it can be called sucky is beyond me. The only episode which is subpar is 'Do Not Forsake Me...' because the star had nothing to do with it.

If someone creative enough to do something new with this program exists, they're doing something original... not a shoddy remake.

As usual, I'd love to be proven wrong because it would mean the world is a wonderful and new place full of hope and oral sex, but... I doubt it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:38 / 21.11.05
Mister Six etc etc etc is crack coming out of vending machines now? Or is sarcasm just out of practice?

This is the cold light of THE TRUTH illuminating your teeny tiny world.

The first two episodes, maybe one of the ones in the middle just so long as, please Christ, it isn't the fucking Western, then the last two. Everything else is crap. Full of people mugging to camera, full of ill-thought-out psychedelica to paper over the implausabilities in plot (what about that episode where they try to make Number Six believe he is an agent sent in to break Number Six? The faux Number Six is killed by Rover who suddenly patrols the village at night-time and kills anyone out of their homes, something Rover does not do in any other episode) and just the sheer woodeness and unlikability of McGoohan's performance. I don't care about what The Prisoner has to say about freedom because he's such an unlikable git.
 
 
Ganesh
13:42 / 21.11.05
He speaks very highly of you.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:39 / 21.11.05
Freedom, if it does not include the freedom to be an unlikable git, is meaningless!
 
 
Spaniel
15:58 / 21.11.05
The faux Number Six is killed by Rover who suddenly patrols the village at night-time and kills anyone out of their homes, something Rover does not do in any other episode

It didn't fit together, it didn't make sense, the acting was very artificial and strange, the characterisation was very loose, it was a great big mess of incongruities and non-sequiturs - that's all part of the charm.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:53 / 21.11.05
Odd, because that's normally why we say a program is shit.
 
 
Spaniel
18:02 / 21.11.05
I wouldn't disagree, but I'm pretty certain the other fans of the show posting in this thread will agree with me.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
19:13 / 21.11.05
The faux Number Six is killed by Rover who suddenly patrols the village at night-time and kills anyone out of their homes, something Rover does not do in any other episode

I think Rover was patrolling the Village in this particular instance because everybody is supposed to be in bed at the appointed time, hence anybody out and about is obviously up to something. It's not in any other episode, but it makes sense in terms of how the Village functions.
Incidentally, has anyone here but me been to Port Myrion(sp?), where they shot the show? You can buy a 'you've been poisoned' glass at the Prisoner gift shop, which is sure to go down well at a dinner party.
 
 
Spaniel
20:30 / 21.11.05
I've been there.
 
 
sleazenation
20:33 / 21.11.05
yeah - i've been there...
 
 
Benny the Ball
11:15 / 22.11.05
A friend went recently and described it as 'a bit run down' which is a shame.

I love the Prisoner, Hammer into Anvil is fantastic, and McGoohan's performance was twitchy, untrusting and generally narky because he'd been kidnapped and bugged by a bunch of people who refused to accept that he'd just quit.

Oh, and the Western episode is great.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:12 / 22.11.05
Yeah, what's with the Western-hating? That was one of the best.
 
 
Jack Fear
23:28 / 22.11.05
It didn't fit together, it didn't make sense, the acting was very artificial and strange, the characterisation was very loose, it was a great big mess of incongruities and non-sequiturs - that's all part of the charm.

Odd, because that's normally why we say a program is shit.


Ah, but in the case of The Prisoner it is meta- shit: that is, the show is about a blatantly artificial environment, where everybody is "acting" with varying degrees of skill, where the narrative is constantly being rewritten, where the experience is designed to confuse, to obfuscate, to wrong-foot you, to keep you uncertain, to keep you wondering if you should even take it seriously.

If the cult that has grown up around The Prisoner seems to preclude all criticism, it's largely because the show itself, by its nature, pre-empts it. If you get what I'm saying.
 
 
Spaniel
23:50 / 22.11.05
Thanks, Jack, for actually thinking on and explicating the whys and wherefores.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:04 / 23.11.05
(Sorry for any typos, my fingers are freezing as the heat is out)

The show certainly doesn't preclude criticism, it welcomes it. Why else throw mad imagery at the viewer one moment and then develop a traditional 'love story' the next? It wants you to think, but not about what time of day it is, what direction Number Six is coming from in shot 45 to shot 46 or why Rover does X Y and Z.

The story is, little children, that McGoohan was riding the high of Danger Man at the time, offered the role of 007 and basically had the world in his hands as far as pop icons go. He wrapped up Danger Man and one his advisors, an ex-government employee, asked him jokingly where secret agents go when they retire. Wheels turned in his heads and he pushed for the most ambitious and frankly expensive program done at the time.

Writing and acting in the key episodes, McGoohan's scheme was to vaguely use the character from Danger Man mixed with his own public persona (hence using his glamor headshot in the opening sequence getting X'd out and in the election episode). His aim was to confuse and disorient the viewer with the expected fight sequences and tropes of action dramas like Danger Man but also include a terrifying analyzation of the modern world.

The viewer is asked to believe that the 'hero' is kidnapped and stick on an island where every extravagance is provided except for freedom. Every other 'inmate' on the island is shown to be either a tool, cog, or victim of the island's administration mission to drag secrets or cause the population to participate in a mass confession and join the happy blank-faced holiday makers who obscure the fact that they are dressed in stripes by adding straw hats and other festive clothing.

As the program carries on it starts to become clear to even the casual viewer that the program is not exactly about a spy stuck on an island run by a foreign power, but is actually making a statement about the world. The program goes as far as aping itself with the episode 'The Girl Who Was Death' where we see an action program reduced to a children's story.

With breathtaking location work, innovative direction and camera work, the Prisoner was a great success but only after years had passed. The conclusion of the last episode caused such an uproar that McGoohan fled the UK and even now refuses to answer direct questions about the show, instead asking the viewer to make their own decisions since all the answers are in the episodes. This stance is certainly not a cop out as again, even the most casual viewer can see that the Prisoner operates on both a casual TV viewing level and on a high level of art and existential thought.

There seems to be some problem here with what are largely the props of the show such as 'well why did he get attacked in episide X and not Y' which is missing the forest from the trees, saying far more about the viewer than the program.

As far as the acting being a problem, I can't help you there. Several TV shows are talked about here that don't exactly feature polished acting. The Prisoner utilized acting styles of its time is all the help I can give you.

No other program ever attempted such a thing and the only one to my mind to try it since is 'Nowhere Man' which was seen by three men and a dog on UPN in 1995. The very concept to use TV as a trick to get people thinking, to upset them and get them to question the quaint world they live in is, for want of a better word, revolutionary.

I can understand someone being annoyed by the style of the show, the jaggedness of it and McGoohan himself, but I just can't figure anyone taking the time to critique the show and miss such large points like what I pointed out above.

Besides, it deeply influenced the minds of several artists that are much loved here, the least of them being Grant Morrison, whom I sure would agree would be a VERY different writer without the Prisoner.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:38 / 23.11.05
Well if Grant Morrison likes it then I immediately withdraw all criticism and prostrate myself before Mister Six, the world's wisest man!
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
18:28 / 23.11.05
Yep, sure is easier than talking about the other ten paragraphs in Six's post.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:01 / 23.11.05
Why bother? Mister Six, and Jack, have invoked the infallibility rule, anything wrong with The Prisoner is actually proof of it's rightness. It might be argued that at the end of, IIRC, the election episode, The Prisoner suddenly descends in to psychedelia because McGoohan doesn't have a clue how to bring it all to a satisfactory conclusion. Thanks to Mister Six, we should embrace a failure on McGoohan's part as proof of the show's success.
 
  

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