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The Last GREAT Cross-Over [PICS]

 
  

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8===>Q: alyn
22:13 / 06.11.05
I'm going to be a big grinch and say there are no good cross-over events, just like there are no good Mel Gibson movies after Thunderdome. Guest appearances can sometimes be tolerable, and I don't think 7 Soldiers really counts as a "cross-over", not least because it is being written by one guy, but if you have shelled out for any of these annual crapfests you are a big, dumb sucker and it's your fault when comics suck.
 
 
the Fool
22:39 / 06.11.05
See, I didn't like inferno because basically they dumped a lot of the Illyana/Magik/Belesco/bloodstones/Amulet back story to make way for the terrible N'asrith and Goblin Queen. Inferno was meant to allow Cthon and the elder gods back into reality, but that was jetisoned. I hated the whole 'Illyana's stepping disks are actually all in one room thing' rather than being her mutant power, bleh! The whole 'regressing' her. It signalled the start of pooing on New Mutant characters in company wide crossovers. The next two causalities (in subsequent crossovers)were Cypher and Warlock - my two favourite characters. After that I was worn down and abandoned comics for ten years...

Favourite crossover? Dunno really. Liked the Mutant Massacre, but wished they hadn't decided to repeat it every year...
 
 
matthew.
23:59 / 06.11.05
The Infinity Gauntlet

For me personally, there's nothing better than Thanos kicking the shit out of all the heavy hitters. He throws the Hulk around like a doll.

Infinity War was okay. It was decent. It wasn't terrific, but it wasn't horrible. What was horrible was Infinity Crusade. That was garbage.

But back to Infinity Gauntlet. You see, I love the idea of putting Godlike powers into the hands of some bad-ass. And there's not very many people who are more bad-ass than fucking Thanos. Yeah. He gets all the Infinity Gems together, puts in a kick-ass glove, and then he becomes God. Who's ass does he kick? Oooh, Galactus, anyone? Yeah, that's right: Galactus. Not to mention, Eternity. The Stranger (who has a cheesy mustache). The Celestials. Thanos beats them all.

I'd also like to give a shout-out to Secret Wars. It was fun, it was silly, and I really liked Mike Zeck's pencils. But -oof- Secret Wars II was ridiculously awful.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:12 / 07.11.05
One of the things that endeared Mutant Massacre and X-Tinction Agenda to me was how totally fucked the X-Men were in both situations, and how they seemed genuinely frightening because characters were totally expendable or vulnerable. X-Tinction Agenda in particular - Wolfsbane and Storm becoming mutates, Warlock getting killed off. Though Storm was back to normal fairly soon, and Wolfsbane eventually reverted to form, it really was kind of the end of the line for those New Mutants characters.

Also, X-Tinction Agenda was the first time they really nailed the "X-Mansion under siege" thing.

And Cameron Hodge was creeeeeeeeepy.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:16 / 07.11.05
The other thing about Mutant Massacre and X-Tinction Agenda is that they were the resolutions of long-standing plot threads, but also kicked the story forward. Bad crossover stories just seem to plop down from out of nowhere and are easily ignored, but those two (and Inferno, though it's not very good at all) are an exception.

Well, I guess this is true of Infinite Crisis as well, but fuck a Crisis, okay?
 
 
FinderWolf
16:52 / 07.11.05
Yeah, LEGENDS was kinda fun. I remember being psyched to see the then-quality (before he descended into hackdom and mindless internet ranting) Byrne drawing the DCU for the first time pretty much ever. G. Gordon Godfrey turning the world against the superheroes, but in a fun way. Nice inks too by Karl Kesel. I guess I liked it mostly for the art, now that I think about it. Who wrote LEGENDS, anyway? I forget...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:25 / 07.11.05
I dug X-Tinction Agenda out this weekend and tried to read it. Starts out really good but the Liefeld and, even worse, the Bogdanove art really makes it difficult to read.

by contrast, i read X-ecutioners Song yesterday afternoon and it really held together pretty well.

Both of them was making me want to read that stretch from the Fall of the Mutants up til X-tinction Agenda...some really interesting stories in there, for sure.
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:03 / 07.11.05
Legends was written by Len Wein (who I really liked) and John Ostrander (who was fantastic back then).
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
18:45 / 07.11.05
I was just thinking the same thing Keith. Bogdanove's stuff just didn't stand up to Jim Lee at such a high point in his work. I remember one particular splash of his, with a few X-Men as Mutates, that was outstanding. That being said, I think the art was even worse on X-Tinction by and large. This was, to me, again, one of Inferno's largest strengths, consistency in design. If you've only got top drawer talent on 30% of the crossover, then it's tough to take it seriously. Oh, and also, Inferno had the best tradedress in crossover history. The way the flames slowly crept across the logo more and more each month? Absolutely classic. I just pulled out Infinity Gauntlet and, man is it rough when George Perez is replaced by Lim smack in the middle of the best issue of the series.

I didn't find Hodge all that creepy, again, mostly because Bogdanove handled the climax and it ended up just a bit too muddled compared to some of the better work in the series.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:45 / 07.11.05
I totally agree that Bogdanove was awful, and that it was probably the high point of Jim Lee's career.
 
 
doctorbeck
10:41 / 10.11.05
my fav cross over moment has to be in a frank willar issue of daredevil when Nuke (some supersoldier variant) gets landed in hells kitchen by Kingpin

the Avengers turn up to take him out and the sheer otherworldliness of cap, Thor and Ironman from DDs point of view is perfectly captured in just a few panels

quite brilliant

as for all that x-cretia mentioned previously, it was inferno and the risible aftermath (roma, siege perilous, australia, 'the x-men have become ....legends') that stopped me buying comics for 10 years, as claremont tried to make sense of his own random story arcs
tho have to admit the mutant massacre was fun even tho no-one of any interest was actually massacred
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:25 / 10.11.05
Heh, Age of Apocalypse. Great in that it was a massive cross-over between about six or seven of the X-titles running during those crazy 90's years. Also, truly hysterical to read now with a decade between exposure. All the X-Men are gritty "dark" versions of themselves (in that they -gasp- kill). Magneto STILL makes massive overblown speeches. But the best bit has to be the following scene.

Black Beast is talking with Apocalypse whilst trying to remove a sentinel hand from Havoc after wacky teleporter fun.

Apocalypse: "Is that a bone saw Dr McCoy?"

Beast: "Yes sir."

Apocalypse: "Carry on."

I love that Apocalypse calls him Dr McCoy and not Beast. It utterly blows his cool as big-up evolutionary badass.
 
 
matthew.
02:04 / 11.11.05
dr beck, I guess you're referring to the Daredevil arc called "Born Again"?

My vote for the greatest Daredevil arc in existance. Not only does it have very little Daredevil, but it really does examine what it means to be a hero. It's got all the great Themes of the superhero comic (the nature of hero, the nature of villain, the disparity/sameness of the hero and villain, what is the nature of the costume, etc) and it has a great catchphrase:

A man without hope is a man without fear.

Brill.
 
 
doctorbeck
08:53 / 11.11.05
>I guess you're referring to the Daredevil arc >called "Born Again"?

that's the one, i'd forgoten thanks, must be nearly 20 years old now, fantastic and that Avengers appearance sent shivers down my spine

shame then when you picked up an actual avengers comic at the time and it was all four colour scraps againsts the masters of evil
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
10:26 / 11.11.05
Not exactly a crossover, though, is it, dingbat?
 
 
Axolotl
10:45 / 11.11.05
All crossovers suck, it's a fact. If I buy a comic I want it to tell a story, I don't want to be forced to buy half a dozen extra comics just to know what's going on.
However little nods to the surrounding universe, as mentioned in Daytripper's earlier post, are fine. Get people curious about what's going on, but don't make other books required reading. However I do like the Various Marvel Team-Ups, both classic & recent versions. The Ultimate Marvel Team-Up was good, and I think a nice example of a book that had cross-overs, but not reading it wouldn't negatively affect your reading of Ultimate Spiderman.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
10:59 / 11.11.05
I'm sorry. This whole topic makes me very hostile.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
14:45 / 12.11.05
Armageddon 2001 happened just after I got into American comics, back when I was a teenager so I really dug that. I still like some of the concepts that were played with.

That happened during the Justice League: Breakdowns story that ran between the pages of J.L.A., J.L.E., and peripherally J.L.I.Q. That gave Keith Giffen space to write one long story featuring pretty much all the characters that he'd made us care about during the previous 4 and a half years. It got a bit muddled as the story reached its conclusion, as these things tend to do, but it was a good finale and a fitting end to the Bwa-Ha-Ha years. "L-Ron....stop bothering the ducks"

Oh, and intercompany crossovers? I'm going to get the piss taken out of me for this but Dredd vs Aliens: Incubus was a belter. There was no need to waste time working out how the characters could meet, just straight into the story which was an action caper as strong as any thriller that John Wagner, Andy Diggle, or Henry Flint have worked on.

And come on, isn't there a bit of you that rather likes the idea of Dredd hunting a single Alien through a hospital, hordes of the buggers attacking the Grand Hall of Justice whilst Hershey and Giant defend, and a finale that sees Dredd take on the Queen and a shed load of face huggers? It doesn't pretend to be deep or meaningful, it's a sci-fi action story, and all the better for embracing the fun to be had.
 
 
sleazenation
15:51 / 12.11.05
For me Alien Vs Predator was a GREAT crossover.

It retained the structure feel and pacing of the films it flowed from, possibly as a result of largely being drawn by a film storyboarding artist... The story is equally well paced, well thought out and consistent with the recurring themes of both films. This is one of those comics that serves as a reminder that people were doing widescreen cinematic comics way before Warren Ellis and Bryan Hitch...
 
 
matthew.
22:30 / 12.11.05
Blimey: why so hostile? Is it because crossovers mean you have to buy a ton of comics you wouldn't normally have to buy? Is it the inherent greediness of the company that makes you so hostile? (I'm not being sarcastic, or anything. I'm actually asking)

Is there a good crossover, then? At all?

Technically, you're right. Daredevil's "Born Again" is not a crossover because it does not spill into another title. Yet it does feature some Avengers. Anyway, you're right.
 
 
matthew.
22:33 / 12.11.05
Wait. Apparently, "Born Again" is sort of a crossover. According to Wikipedia:

"Born Again features a small, but interesting crossover with Amazing Spider-Man. In issue #277, Matt Murdock phoned Peter Parker, aka Spider-Man (he was one of the few persons who knew his secret identity back then) and told him of the big conspiracy the Kingpin had set against him. Spider-Man believes Matt, breaks into Fisk's headquarters and is ready to fight him, but then, Kingpin convinces Spidey that he is totally wrong. Spidey swings away, thinking Matt Murdock is out of his mind."

found here. So, it's still a classic crossover.
 
 
c0nstant
23:25 / 13.11.05
Amalgam. Spider-Boy was just awesome. Superboy + spider-man = genius.
 
 
The Falcon
00:30 / 14.11.05
My favourite is a little known gem in the Milligan oeuvre, 'Generation Hex' which crosses Jonah Hex with, you guessed it, Generation X.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:58 / 14.11.05
this 'crossover' with Spider-Man was written a number of years after the original Born Again arc, and not by Frank Miller. Born Again is issues 227-232, this Spider-Man retroactive inserted bit was in issue 277.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:58 / 14.11.05
When Milligan wrote Generation X he had a Jonah Hex analogue character show up?
 
 
matthew.
01:05 / 14.11.05
FinderWolf - Haha. I was just trying to find a little legitimacy for my possible threadrot.

Jonah Hex has a nice DC Spotlight coming out. 500 pages of pure Western zombie (I think?) action. And for cheap.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:27 / 14.11.05
Finder, that was in Amazing Spider-man 277 (coverdated June 86) not DD 277, the Daredevil June 86 issue was #231, part 5 of Born Again. So that one probably does count. A bit.
 
 
Spaniel
08:52 / 14.11.05
Batman + Wolverine =

 
 
This Sunday
20:20 / 14.11.05
Amalgam was lovely. And more marvelously continues to reward me as I grow older, my knowledge of both Marvel and DC comics universes expands and becomes more specific/complicated (by reading the actual stories rather than summaries in other stories, et cetera), every time I dip back into those recombinant chymerical fugues.
What was greatest was how they often invalidated the continuity of other Amalgam comics. Yay for gleeful discontinuity that's so continuity-heavy in a meta/allusional sense! Yay!
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
20:29 / 14.11.05
X-Men 190/191, The Avengers, Spider-Man and the X-Men are wrangled into a distorted version of Manhattan as Kulan Gath takes over.

Best image is Spidey hanging over a flame, his costume in tatters with blood gushing from his foot. Also seeing Caliban and Prof X merged into this horrible nightmare-fueling monster was fun.

Great run of issues there, actually (156-200)... barring the Kitty's fantasy and Power Pack issues.
 
 
grant
17:29 / 15.11.05
Revisiting a question from last page:

COBRA-LAlalalalala!: Who won?!?

----

kovacs: I believe there's a 2-page splash near the end where they touch gloves and Ali declares "we're BOTH champions!"



The plot: aliens come and say they're gonna invade Earth unless Earth's greatest champion can beat their greatest champion one on one. Ali, the heavyweight champ, says, "I'm the Greatest!" Superman says, "I'm the greatest... but I'm from Krypton!"

So it's decided they should fight to decide who's really the greatest. So the aliens take Ali and Supes to a world with a red sun, so Superman's powers go away. And he's toast. Muhammad Ali is totally the Greatest.

BUT... the alien commander tries to invade while Ali is fighting the alien champ, Superman (who is NOT as toasted as he at first seemed) flies up into space and creams the entire invasion fleet, the alien champ says, "Commander, you are dishonorable and back home they're going to execute you," and Ali says, "Superman, you're not so bad in a fight after all."

So yeah, they're both winners in a way.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:40 / 15.11.05
I just remembered Shade the Changing Man encountering a young John Constantine. IIRC most of the story happened in the Shade book while in the Hellblazer book it was backstory.. something he did when he was younger. I think some of the Antagonists were revisited in a sort of this-is-what-they're-up-to-now sort of way.
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:34 / 15.11.05
It started with them in 1979, just after Margret Thatcher was announced as PM, then they went back to the 1770's or something. It was more of a guest appearence, but yeah, Constantine acted as though he remembered him from somewhere later on or something.
 
  

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