BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The Last GREAT Cross-Over [PICS]

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
adamswish
19:20 / 03.11.05
Spurred on by a comment in the dying embers of House of M I was just wondering what people consider Great cross-overs.

I'm, personally, in no position to comment as I think the last cross-over I brought was X-tinction Agenda years ago (that is the one with x-men vs Genosha isn't it? Storm returns to adulthood, gets powers back, the techno-alien from New Mutants bites the big one and his ashes are poured over poor Doug's grave [big mistake, but never mind] and Havok get's his memory back) so I open the floor to the masses.

Bring forth your views and enough firepower to back them up...
 
 
Quimper
19:42 / 03.11.05
INFERNO!

Major Repercussions: X-Men and X-Factor realize the other still exists. Cyclops, Jean Grey and Maddy Pryor's connections to Sinister are revealed. Illyana Rasputin ceases to be Magik.

Other Repercussions:

X-Men :
- Longshot felt tainted after he was influenced by the demons during Inferno. He left the team in Uncanny X-Men #248 on a quest to find his inner peace.
- Seeing Sinister die loosened Malice’s hold on Polaris. Lorna regained control and could contact the X-Men for help.

New Mutants :
- Illyana was reduced to childhood and brought back to her parents in russia.
- The New Mutants finally parted with Magneto, the school’s current headmaster, since they witnessed him and the Hellfire Club make a deal with the demons.
- The teenage members of the X-Terminators (Rusty, Skids, Boom-Boom, Rictor) joined the New Mutants.

X-Factor :
- Cyclops was finally reunited with his son.
- Jean had troubles to deal with the added personalitys of Madelyne and Phoenix for quite some time.
- Beast gave Warren the name Archangel during Inferno, thinking this to be more fitting than Dark Angel.

Excalibur :
- With Illyana gone the Soul Sword appeared with Kitty. Since she did not want it the sword was left in a stone before Excalibur’s lighthouse. Years later the sword was given to Amanda Sefton.


Best Moments: 1) Cyke destroys Sinster with a big optic blast; 2) Storm and Jean reunited; 3) Angel vs. Wolverine; 4) Dazzler and Longshot knock boots on the dirty ground; 5) Illyana becomes the Darkchilde and has the coolest tongue; 6) Brian Braddock in a leather harness


Unexpected Cool Factor: The advertising



 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:47 / 03.11.05
Peter Noone never promised ME a happy ending.

Bastard.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
19:52 / 03.11.05
Beat me to it. Inferno was definitely the last best crossover. Alan Davis on the Excal issues, Walt Simmi on the X-Factor, Silvestri at his prime, huge 48 page showstoppers (and they meant it, please see: Logan and Jean TOTALLY FRENCHING).

And that mention of Longshot's vision quest reminded me of HOW AWESOME A MULLET LOOKS WHEN SIMONSON DRAWS ONE.

The New Mutants stuff wasn't bad but the art on that on X-Terminators (bet you thought I forgot about that handicapable little series) was just too second fiddle against the other ones on display.
 
 
adamswish
20:08 / 03.11.05


I did have this as a poster. And it looked the real deal (apart from the issue numbers on the bottom), that currently trendy black, messed up, old print look on faded brown paper and torn in just the right places.

I bow before all who mentioned Inferno and have to admit there was a time I would dip into the x-titles JUST for the crossovers.

More, more...
 
 
John Octave
20:17 / 03.11.05
I thought "Acts of Vengeance" was a fun, if silly, idea. A bunch of the top villains in the Marvel Universe (Loki, Doom, Kingpin, Mandarin, Red Skull, Magneto, and *koff* the Wizard) all get together and go "Hey, why don't we all swap enemies?" and absolute chaos ensues. Along the way, Spider-Man gets the Captain Universe power and fights the Hulk and Magneto and such. Not very much lasting effect, but you had the entertaining novelty of seeing unusual hero vs. villain fights, it had a fun concept, and each titles' stories were self-contained enough where you didn't need to read all the tie-ins to understand the basic goings-on.

Oh, and there was a Damage Control miniseries tie-in into this, and that's always good.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:23 / 03.11.05
I think that Claremont's last story for Uncanny, involving the Shadow King and whatnot, had the potential to be one of the best stories ever, seeing as it had taken as long as Inferno to set up, but he just bottled it. The Shadow King went for full on control of people and making them call him 'Master' all the time, the ending was fairly obvious from miles off and he couldn't even organise a proper confrontation between Xavier and his son. Tosser.

Secret Wars was pretty good, considering it was selling toys. Those great glorious days when crossovers changed things, with the X-Men having to go side with Magneto because all the other heroes suddenly decided they didn't like mutants. Colossus get's his heart broken, the Thing leaves the Fantastic Four, Spidey gets the symbiote. Ramifications! What changed after the Infinity Crusade? Nothing!
 
 
Quimper
20:24 / 03.11.05
Acts of Vengance was good for one reason and one reason only...

ASIAN PSYLOCKE!!! (Lady Mandarin!)

 
 
This Sunday
20:34 / 03.11.05
The best cross-overs, to promote a sense of shared universe and continuity, are those little things that don't really amount to much or greatly rely on you reading every part. Daredevil swinging past the Baxter Building in an issue of FF while they fight a giant monster or something. Next issue of DD, Matt's on his way to go beat up the Kingpin and make himself feel all big and in charge, and whoa, just below our blind leatherboy the Fantastic Four! Fighting a giant monster! Ah, hell, they can handle it, he's got his own concerns.
Or the unnatural wave of snow that carried through a whole bunch of late-eighties Marvel books one month.
Way nicer, and far smoother, than those 'oh, fuck, I have to include the cross-over moment' deals, like the Ellis Onslaught contributions, which, while very cool in and of themselves, flowwed not at all with the rest of the Excal story. Peter David left X-Factor, apparently, over that sort of requirement.
You know what I liked? I liked 'WildCATs versus Aliens', I did. And 'Batman/Daredevil' was cool.
The last great cross-over was either 7 Soldiers, which is still going and still technically a cross-over... or those Amalgam books Marvel and DC put out.
 
 
The Falcon
22:43 / 03.11.05


hate to be bearer of obvious tidings, but (t3h) game's up.
 
 
Catjerome
03:49 / 04.11.05
I enjoyed the hell out of the concept and the opening bookend issue of Vertigo's crossover The Children's Crusade. The prologue issue was creepy and haunting and yet a bit ... well, magical or whimsical at the same time. The buildup for the rest of the crossover thrilled me - a couple of "Oh! I know that character!" moments and allusions.

The actual crossover was a bit scrambled, though. I got the impression that they were trying to keep the stories as single-issue and independent as possible so that regular readers wouldn't suffer if they didn't pick up the other crossover issues. At the same time, they were trying to place them as part of an overarching story, so there was some storytelling tension there. I also thought the closing bookend issue was pretty poor. I wish the same creative team as the first issue (Gaiman/Bachalo) could've worked on the last issue as well.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:03 / 04.11.05
I've found the Inferno and Mutant Massacre crossovers more interesting since I found out they were meant to be Captain Britain/Otherworld/Jaspers Warp stories.

The Daredevil Inferno crossovers were particularly great. As for X-Men, wasn't Havok fantastic around that time?
 
 
Mario
13:00 / 04.11.05
Add my vote for Acts of Vengeance. If nothing else for the little bits, like Doom sending a robot because he couldn't be arsed to come himself.

And the confrontation between Magneto and Red Skull was worth any number of cheesy guest appearances.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:50 / 04.11.05
On the DC front, I rather enjoyed Underworld Unleashed by Waid and former JLA artist Howard Porter...not that anything huge happened as a result of it but it was a refreshingly solid fun yarn. I also dug FINAL NIGHT, and not because of any Hal Jordan attachment.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:53 / 04.11.05
Those Inferno promo pics are/were excellent.

1 vote for Crisis on Infinite Earths being the best crossover of all time. Not that that's a revolutionary concept or anything but I notice it wasn't mentioned in this thread.

DC One Million was fun, too.
 
 
grant
19:24 / 04.11.05


Batman had great tickets, too.
 
 
grant
19:27 / 04.11.05
I should clarify that to a kid in the 70s, this comic promised a real solution to a dead serious question none of us could really answer.

I'm pretty sure that's Jimmy Carter and Sonny Bono up front (the back cover was loaded with celebs, too).

Check out this interview about the issue. Neal Adams on the greatest comic he ever made.
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
19:46 / 04.11.05
Who won?!?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:50 / 04.11.05
I believe there's a 2-page splash near the end where they touch gloves and Ali declares "we're BOTH champions!"
 
 
Quimper
19:52 / 04.11.05
Looks like Lex Luthor and Jimmy Carter though it was a great crossover too.

But why would Supes wear that in the ring? Seems overdressed.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:55 / 04.11.05
The last great crossover, to my mind, was the CRISIS. One Million was fun and had a good central story, but it wasn't on nearly such a grand, ambitious scale, and most of the peripheral titles caught up in it were weak. Children's Crusade was also promising and the first bookend, at least, was a highlight of early-90s Vertigo, but in my (possibly flawed) memory it became lacklustre and lost momentum very quickly.

CRISIS, for its faults, remains super fun, epic and cosmic in scale, rousing and touching in its detail, and bravely devastating in its effects. I'm really glad INFINITE CRISIS is capturing the same tone.

Is cross-over different from team-up? I relished the Batman/Grendel two-parter, and the Shade/Constantine meeting, and when Cliff Steele turns up in Animal Man. "You must be Robotman." "You must be the guy who states the obvious." Perhaps they don't count.
 
 
Aertho
20:30 / 04.11.05
I've found the Inferno and Mutant Massacre crossovers more interesting since I found out they were meant to be Captain Britain/Otherworld/Jaspers Warp stories.

Eh? Really? How so?

I've always been fond of Cap Brit, and that was only through Excalibur. Must pick up AM/AD trades.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
21:21 / 04.11.05
From Comics International:
Q - I read recently about a possible apocryphal story regarding Chris Claremont using Alan Moore’s Captain Britain ideas in X-Men circa #200. Is this true?

A - PH again, hogging the limelight: Okay, my time frame here might be a little screwy but I’ll have a go at this.

One big can of worms here. Alan Moore fell out with Marvel after they reprinted his Doctor Who backup strips in the US Doctor Who editions without his permission (tisk, tisk!). Moore wasn’t happy about this and vowed never to work for the company again. Later adding DC to the “never again” folder, this might explain his work for Rob Liefeld as he’d already ruled out Fleetway and didn’t last too long at Image.

Chris Claremont, who was unaware of the political problems brewing, introduced Sir James Jaspers into Uncanny X-Men #200. His intention was to have the Alan Moore Captain Britain support character infiltrate and eventually have a Jaspers’ Warp in this reality with the X-teams as the main thrust in the line-spanning story.

Moore was unhappy about the Jaspers appearance and severed any chance of a reconciliation.

Now I get hazy because while I know what I was told, I’m not sure of the legalities. There is a glaring difference between US and UK copyright laws and Marvel’s lawyers allegedly recommended to Marvel that they avoid Moore’s creations and story ideas. Legalising would cost Marvel a lot of money and wasted time so the upshot was they dumped the X-Men: Jaspers’ Warp idea. A friend of mine interviewed John Romita Jr who said that he was “really looking forward to playing with some of the cool characters that Moore and Alan Davis had created for the Captain Britain strip”. Amazingly, Claremont had intentions of not only introducing Jaspers from the UK Captain Brain stories, but also the Special Executive and the Fury (which at one point was firmly on the cards, as Alan Davis and Mike Collins had resurrected the Fury in Sid’s Story and there was more of a haze around the character’s ownership).

So, the Special Executive became the Technet, but what happened to the Fury? Romita also said there would be hints and subplots in other Marvel comics. I was out of the loop at the time, but perhaps others noticed odd things happening in their Marvel comics during 1986.

I have also heard that Marvel insisted on a reference to the Jaspers Warp in a post-Moore Captain Britain (I think this was Mike Collins’ Sid’s Story again) and there was also a mention of Jaspers’ Warp in an early issue of Excalibur. Then Claremont became privy to all the politicking and immediately rewrote his impending blockbuster and subsequently what Romita had suggested might be the equivalent of a DC Crisis story (hot on the heels of the real one) was laid to rest.

Around 1990, I stumbled across a lot of stuff about Claremont and Marvel’s plans. I was putting together a column called Hypotheticals: What might have happened in Alan Moore’s Marvel Universe. From what I can remember, the Marvel Jaspers’ Warp storyline was to begin in X-Men #200.

Jim Jasper was introduced as the typical English baddie. The only person capable of stopping him, Charles Xavier, was exiled back to space because his cloned body was packing up. The issues went very much the way they were planned to for six months, but then changes were made. Originally, Nimrod – the futuristic sentinel living as a Hispanic good bloke in the ghetto, was to stumble upon the remains of an entity that entered our reality through a hole in the spaceitime continuum. Nimrod was to accidentally merge with the Fury and become not only indestructible, but also very smart. “Doc Doom times a googolplex” was one of the lines I read.

From this point on, you’ll see what did happen in between the cracks of what didn’t: Romita was leaving, so Alan Davis was asked to do it. He declined because of the creative restrictions. The Mutant Massacre was to have been committed solely by the Nimrod/Fury hybrid. He would eventually be stopped by Kitty phasing through him and disrupting his circuits. However, Kitty, Nightcrawler, Colossus and new character Longshot, were to have been relocated to Muir Island for medical attention and to work with Captain Britain.
Kitty was to be critically injured, as was Nightcrawler. Colossus was sent as protection and as a perfect foil for Brian Braddock, who Kitty would develop a crush on. Mutants, good bad or indifferent would begin to flock to Xavier’s and with Phoenix II conveniently out of the way and Kitty and Braddock in Scotland, there were no members to see the parallels with Days of Future Past or with the Jaspers’ Warp.

America would be in the thralls of mutant hysteria and Magneto – now in charge of the X-Men – would have to make some decisions that would affect the status quo. Allegiances would be formed with villains and new players, including Mr Sinister and others, would become prominent mutants through their covert ways.

The UN would decree mutants a menace and Jaspers would meet Nimrod and subsequently become aware he too was a mutant. Unlike the Jaspers’ Warp, these two would become allies, or at least that is what Jaspers would believe. With reality falling apart and Nimrod culling mutants, Forge would be drawn into battle and what happened in the Fall of the Mutants story is essentially what was written, with the exception of the big fight scene and the denouement. Instead of being impervious to detection, the mutants who ventured into the Seige Perilous would return, with the warps they had undergone (some of this was used in Inferno, too).

X-Men was going to be a much darker comic and Excalibur the lighter side. X-Factor and New Mutants would pick up the pieces and rebuild mutant/human relations. And so now you know! (Whew!)"
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:26 / 05.11.05
I haven't read it in ages so I have no idea if it still holds up, but I remember being totally into the X-Tinction Agenda. There's a lot of huge exciting moments in that storyline, and it's plot is a lot tighter than most crossovers.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:47 / 05.11.05
verry interestig - thanks for the info. on this 'what might have been.' I remember being intruiged when they introduced Nimrod and then that plot never seemed to go much of anywhere...I later heard that Nimrod became a character called "Bastion" in all the Apocalypse nonsense. Yawn. Waste of a cool robotic pink guy whose Biblical name has somehow come to mean 'nerd.'
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
14:38 / 05.11.05
Funnily enough, Claremont started his "Reload" issues off by bringing back the Fury and he had James Jaspers (and the Fury) in his House of M issues of Uncanny. (With hints that both would stick around for New Excalibur.)
 
 
Mark Parsons
22:30 / 05.11.05
Best cross-over ever: SEVEN SOLDIERS!

I stopped reading X-Men when they started with all the Inferno, Mutant Massacre cross-over madness, hated SECRET WARS, but liked CoIE, although a recent rereading gave me indigestion(!).

Some of the JSA-JLA crossovers are fun (reprinted in the CRISIS ON MULTIPLE EARTHS trades) and of course there were cross-overs akimbo in the MU from almost day one.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
02:45 / 06.11.05
Weird....I remember the big mutant crossovers as being when I would pretty much check out of reading the books for a few months because it would be a bunch of Claremont pretending to tie up storylines and instead making them murkier.

I liked DC's annual crossovers for a while (I liked Armageddon 2000 and Final Night), but I think the last time I had sheer fanboy glee over one was the first "Infinity Gauntlet" by Starlin and Perez. The tie ins were shite, but Starlin was able to revisit his old 70's storylines in a more entertaining way, and Perez (who dropped out halfway through for Rom Lim, who I also liked) was able to make it all flow really well.

I liked No Man's Land in Batman a lot more than I thought I would...and the Superman books pre-"death" were a lot fo fun with the interconnected stories, but after his death, they lost a lot of momentum.
 
 
FinderWolf
02:56 / 06.11.05
Yeah, for the most part No Man's Land was pretty strong.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
04:13 / 06.11.05
this is all making me want to root through my boxes to find all the X-tinction Agenda issues...I'm pretty sure I have the complete set.

also, not quite as good, but possibly one of the largest and most epic X crossovers was X-ecutioners Song. That story went everywhere and was just immense in it's plot lines.

But, yeah, I think Seven Soldiers is going to go down as the best crossover ever.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
04:15 / 06.11.05
oh, and as mentioned on another thread, i'm a big fan of the Infinity War crossover. all the crazy clones and Thanos being good and Galactus kind of helping out and letting a bunch heroes hang out in his ship...that was a good yarn.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
04:29 / 06.11.05
Oh yeah... while it was hit or miss, X-cutioner's Song was the bomb to my weee mind. Especially the long brewing conflict between X-Force and the X-Men.

The X-tinction agenda was the first crossover I followed religiously. Jim Lee art, Havoc vs. Cyke, Jean and Wolvie making out, Wolvie vs. Archangel... yeah, I dug that.

And Infinity Gaultlet... wow.. heroes dying horribly, Thanos being his most bleak, Warlock sacrificing the Marvel Universe as pawns... yeah, those were some damn fine crossovers. And I was reading them before I got jaded by comics, so my first thought when something HUGE happened wasn't "well, that'll be retconned next month".
 
 
Eskay Doss
08:16 / 06.11.05
The FALL OF THE MUTANTS is what really got me into the X-Men way back when...

On UNCANNY X-MEN, great Silvestri art showed the team battle against the Mutant Registration Act and a powerful mystical villain called The Adversary. Our heroes sacrificed themselves to save the world. They were brought back to life by the goddess Roma, made invisible to all forms of electronic surveillance, given the Siege Perilous so they could restart their lives should they so choose, and the team moved down-under for what seemed like forever. The world at large only realized the were still alive much later with the (also very good) Inferno crossover.

In X-FACTOR, the team fought Apocalypse and his new horseman of Death - Archangel!!! The good guys won & they made the big A's sentient ship their new home.

The NEW MUTANTS featured the tragic death of Cypher as he took a bullet meant for Wolfsbane. The kids also leave Magneto for the first time and go off on their own for a bit.

These stories packed a punch that you don't really get anymore. Fun, exciting, and full of surprises. They carried a weight that today's "it'll be retconed in a few months" attitude totally lifts away. Shit like Spider-Man: The Other is so light, drawn out, meandering and disposable by comparison.

INFINITY GAUNTLET was AWESOME - Captain America facing Thanos and certain death with no fear and total cool was a classic Cap moment. And Rick Jones proclaiming "I can't die! I have a gig tomor--*" is the funniest last words I've ever read.

SEVEN SOLDIERS is GREAT so far, and if it holds up till the end it'll be my favorite.
 
 
Benny the Ball
09:29 / 06.11.05
I thought Legends was great fun, mainly because of Darkseid's involvement.

The X-books cross over that had Wolverine's adamantium being ripped out was fantastic - it was at a time when almost all of the X-books were in very good hands (also continuing a good run on Havok's character development, which began back in Uncanny 215 or so, David's X-Factor was such a good book).

Teesdale Imperative which ran through JLA and JLE was very good also.

Plus Acts of Vengence was fun, especially the stupid Cosmic Spidey stuff.

I must admit to really enjoying big parts of Zero Hour. Even though the fall out was awful, the Legion of Superhero's connected books did a really good job of making the story a good one.

I for one thought that Crisis was a bit heavy handed - but I think that's because I enjoyed Secret Wars, which, for a massive advert for a toy line, was a simple idea that made little sense and had some interesting repurcussions to the MU when complete (Colossus' love life, Spiderman's costume, the Thing etc) and Doctor Doom was so well drawn in this book. Plus I was really into the X-Men around this time.
 
 
diz
14:24 / 06.11.05
I agree with Our Lady over the buildup for Shadow King being better than the actual event, and also with Flux about X-Tinction Agenda. For me, the coolest part about it was just seeing the assorted X-teams getting on the same page and becoming this crazy mobile mutant army. Which, frankly, is kind of what they're like all the time now, except they're just different teams of X-Men instead of different teams, but at the time it was novel and exciting.

Also, like Dan Fish, I love Inferno-era Havok. Between that era of X-Men and the Peter David X-Factor Havok, he became one of my favorite X-Men. I loved the issue where Havok and Maddie Pryor first hooked up - such a weird, but totally sensible pairing, the also-rans comforting each other.

But the last great crossover story (though it wasn't a big multibook crossover) was JLA/Avengers, which I seem to be talking up quite a bit lately.
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply