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Fasting

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
Jub
09:07 / 05.12.05
yeah, well done MS. Very interesting to read.
 
 
Cat Chant
09:21 / 05.12.05
Congratulations, and thanks for the detailed journal: I found it fascinating and inspiring and thought-provoking, as well as just enjoyable to read as a 'story'. Hooray for you!
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:23 / 05.12.05
Awww, shucks. *rosy*
 
 
illmatic
09:41 / 05.12.05
Yeah, well done, dude.

Do you have to push it to ten days though? Let alone 30 or 40 - I think the latter esp. is really fucking with your body, doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:52 / 05.12.05
Tell that to Moses! (or Jesus, Pythagorus, Hippocrates, anybody wishing to study in the Libraries of Alexandria, and everyone else throughout history who has sworn by it).

The benefits of this 7 day fst have been (and continue to be) so impressive, I am definitely going to work up to a 10 day next year. Whether I go beyond that or not will have to wait and see.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
11:57 / 05.12.05
Also - friend mentioned in the first post has since completed 40 day and iboga initiation...and has had no pain whatsoever in his paralyzed arm since (this is 18 years after the accident, with daily agony since)...so there can be some profound effects (although eating the most staggeringly powerful entheogenic healer on the face of the planet can't hurt, either).
 
 
SteppersFan
18:26 / 05.12.05
BTW, what did fasting do for your sec drive?
 
 
JohnnyDark
15:50 / 10.12.05
Great thread - thanks a lot. This has me seriously interested in trying for a 36 hour defrag...
 
 
The Tower Always Falls
03:02 / 12.12.05
First, let me add to the Kudos again to Money Shot for this thread.

Second, this inspired me to try my own fast as well this weekend. With mixed results.

Basically, I followed much of the advice here. Went vegetarian/vegan for about a week before. Focused on raw foods and water-based fruits in the last few days. Like Money, I was REALLY impressed with the energy levels I had those last few days. Shocking really.

Did the water fast with a minimum goal of 36 hours and amaximum of three days. First day really wasn't that bad. Minor hunger pangs and general body weakness, but nothing too messy. Morning of the second day, however? Felt like I got hit by a hangover meets a bastard flu. That really suprised me, to be honest. My extremeties started feeling heavy and tingled and all sorts of weirdness. I scarfed down an oarnge and a banana and slept for five hours and I seemed better. Now I'm phasing back into eating with some lentil soup, but still feel all underwater...

Still interested in trying this again, but any recommendations or suggestions? I feel like I kid of punked out, even if I did make my goal of 36 hours, but this morning really kicked my ass...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
08:30 / 12.12.05
Ok, really glad this thread has been inspiring peeps to have a crack at it themselves....

Suggestions regarding fasting generally:

1. Take. It. Easy. Begin with 24-36 hour fasts once a week, particularly if your lifestyle has generally been less than optimum for this kind of thing...avoid alcohol and stimulants like tea and coffee and tobacco (and whatever else) for the week leading up (in fact, ditch coffee if you can full stop, and drink rooibus tea, which is bloody marvellous stuff, caffeine free, with half the tannin of normal tea, and more anti-oxidants than any other tea on Earth. It's really good with 'So Good' soya milk, for my tastes). Recommend at least a month of this before trying anything heftier. Let your body get used to the breaking of it's habitual eating patterns...

2. A water fast is the most beneficial, but obviously the most devastating to your system also. You might like to get used to longer fasts by juice fasting for three days after a month of once a week 24-36 hour fasting (water or juice). Vegetable or fruit, but don't mix the two (in the same drink...except apple and carrot, for some reason, don't ask me why. Best to stick to one or the other though, vegetable or fruit juices.)

3. Water fasting will affect different people differently and even the same person differently on different occasionas. Resting and relaxing are certainly ideal if you can. Your body may crash before it is able to function well, as a 'healing crisis' takes place inside. Expect the unexpected, and don't make absurd demands of your system if it is exhausted. Listen carefully to your physical feedback, and act appropriately. Drink lots and lots of water, add a cap of apple cider vinegar if you want to a few of the many pints of water you'll need to be drinking each day. Take 1000mg vitamin C and bio-flavinoids at least half the days you are fasting (and every non-fast day...).

4. Energy work like Qi Gong, Yoga, Tai Chi etc. is almost certainly beneficial to these processes. I don't really know how much so, because I've been doing yoga since before I ever fasted for the first time, so I have no comparison. I suffered none of the oft-reported exhaustions and faintness, though, and I was working all week and walking 4-8 miles a day at that, though. Any hunger pang or emptiness inside at usual mealtimes, I would simply practice a partial or full series, so I was doing between 2-3 hours of yoga every day. Worked for me!

5. Maintain a really positive mental attitude. Read about fasting, understand the benefits it imparts, and view it for the long haul. It's not really something you can dip into and expect to reap great benefits. It's something to inculcate into a medium to long term program of investment in your wellbeing, and monitor the results and benefits. So going slow to start is fine, because you are working towards things at a pace that suits your body. Think positive, know that breaking the habit of a lifetime of eating two to three meals every day for years on end is bound to cause a ruckus in your physical-mental apparatus, but that you have the will and the way to do it.

Read about it, not just this thread, there are lots of resources available on Amazon and so on...

...And good luck!

Incidentally, I'm really enjoying food again, but have defiitely identified wheat as a very tiring food. I'm not allergic, but having exluded it for a month and then done the week-long fast, with it (slowly) re-introduced in my diet, I have starkly noticed how knackering it can be digesting the stuff. Still meat of any sort (including fish)...nothing really dairy, either, except some cake (mmm, cake!), which also can be quite fatigue inducing.

Very interesting being able to study the various impacts of specific food groups on me in this way, it's most illuminating, and not something I'd ever spent much time or effort considering previously...
 
 
Morgana
09:30 / 09.03.06
I'd like to add my thanks, too - am on day 2 of a water-, tea- and juice-fast I want to do for at least 7 days, and it's really inspiring and helpful to read through your experiences. Right now I'll go and do some tai chi to boost my energy level, as day 2 seems to be tricky. Yesterday was easier than I expected - even easier, in some way, than the two days before, when I was on caffeine-withdrawal and got headaches. Today I'm feeling rather week and hungry though, but am positive to beat this with a little energy-work and loads of fresh air.

Cheers!
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
11:03 / 09.03.06
Curious coincidence, I've just finished an 8 day water fast. I was going to pop in here to mention it, but didn't get time.

Yes, stick at it. Day 2 is by far the hardest of all.

I've learned loads more about fasting and the science behind it, and cleansing reactions and why they occur and what they tend to mean, so please feel free to ask anything and if I can I'll do my best to answer it.

This second short fast for me was profoundly different to the first time, and beneficial in very different ways as well. It really is quite a profound thing, all told.

I'm gearing up for a 14 day juice-and-water fast in the Summer. Need to be stopped in normal life, though.

In fact, I don't recommend fasting if you have shit to do at all, to be honest. I've done it twice now, and although the first time was relatively good, this time was incredibly difficult and unfair on me and everyone around me...a big emotional detoxification occurred, which ideally needs space and calm and plenty of opportunity to relax and take it easy.

I feel fucking fantastic for it though.

Good luck, stay focused, and take it easy. After today, it should get considerably easier to cope with the physical effects.
 
 
Morgana
08:50 / 10.03.06
Not so much a coincidence, I guess, as the 40 days before Easter are a traditional time for fasting, at least for catholics - and I'm sure there's something behind this tradition. I just had a feeling I want to greet springtime with a thoroughly clean body and soul, this year.

Unfortunately, day 3 is even tougher than day 2 - my legs and lower back started to hurt yesterday evening, and this morning I felt really weak and shaky. Still I managed to go to a business date in a café without getting hungry or drooly at all, in face of all the yummy food there.

Fortunately, there hasn't been much work for me, this week, and as I'm self-employed I could stay at home anyway, so I got much time for myself. Don't think I could do this when being under pressure, as my intellect and reactions seem to have slowed down quite a lot.

It'm really admiring you for fasting with water only. Guess I would have given up already, without my little amounts of juice and vegetable stock. It's mysterious how less than half a pint of vegetable stock or a glass of sour cabbage juice can feel like a whole meal.

Did you really drink just water or some herbal teas, at least?

One little mystery: I'm not freezing at all, though my blood pressure is low, anyway. Only get cold feet and hands, but still feel the heat going up and down my spine. Especially while doing Qi Gong, yesterday: it was so much more intense than usually.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:48 / 10.03.06
Just water...water fasting has benefits which cannot be achieved any other way whatsoever...the body functions in a unique fashion on water fasts, particularly after 7 days...

It's not easy, though. I had some pretty extreme cleanse reactions this time round, felt really rough for a couple of days. Nothing unbearable, but decidedly odd. Was a high pressure week as well, I chose an idiotic time to do it, which I won't be doing again! Live and learn.

The mental clarity one achieves is quite startling, in the end.

I'm with you today, anyway, fasting 32 hours until tomorrow! It will improve. Keep going!
 
 
Morgana
09:18 / 11.03.06
Yeah, it did improve. Still waiting for euphoria, though. This morning I felt rather poor, like yesterday, but after a little bit of zazen and rune-yoga in the late morning, I'm now feeling quite energetic. And my head is not so dull anymore. Happy me!

Guess to do that water-fasting, your body has to be used to food-deprivation already. Perhaps I'll try it next time. At the moment I just feel like I'm having enough of herbal teas, so I'm drinking more and more water, anyway. Couldn't live without the little bit of juice and stuff, though. On the other hand, this way I'm still dividing my day, focussing onto lunch and dinner.

When you fast on water, are you drinking it cold, or is it okay to boil it?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:53 / 11.03.06
You can take it any temperature you like! Just don't take it from a tap.

Euphoric effects from fasting tend to manifest around the 5+ days mark, I'd say...more often 7 or more.

I was cleansing a lot on this fast just gone as well, taking enemas morning and night (don't use tap water for this either! Good chemists sell purified water, usually de-ionised, which is not really ideal, but I have one near me which subsequent to de-ionisation uses industrial strength reverse-osmosis, which is good enough. Distilled is ideal, but if you don't have your own distiller, it's expensive. De-ionised and reverse osmosis filtered is pretty damn pure.)

It's pretty amazing what you flush out doing this with water fasting. Its advisable to rebuild your bacterial lining with probiotics when you come off, and not the exclusive acidophilus strains commonly available - use a blend, with a primarily alkalizing overall effect (bifidobacterium breve, bifidus etc.) Feel totally fucking awesome by the end of it all.

Cleansing reactions of the sort you have been suffering are generally a result of insufficient alkali buffers in your digestive system. Eating strict vegetarian is a good start to counter this, but it really needs more than a week I'd say. In the long run, its far and away the healthiest diet anyway, so I'm totally strict on it these days...not exactly vegan, which refers to more than diet, tbh, and is very difficult to practice in a Western developed nation with any sort of consistency.

Making broth to drink while fasting and prior to fasting if you are going more than water is also good for repleneshing and maintaining an alkali internal environment (essential for health). This is dead easy - basically a few litres of water, two or three whole potatoes, 3 stalks of organic celery and a few leaves of dark greens - anything, kale, cabbage, collard, whatever. Add kelp if you want lots of useful minerals. In a stainless steel pot bring to a light boil with the lid on, then simmer for about 15-20 minutes.

Strain and chuck out the solids, then leave the broth to cool, refrigerate and drink about 3-4 glasses a day. Alkali reserves ahoy.

I'm pretty much 60-70% raw food diet these days, if not more. Its amazing how fasting reawakens the taste buds to the amazing flavours in simple, unprepared foods, and how the digestive system is not really very pleased with richness and complexity...I love what I eat, and its all local organic produce as well. The benefits are astounding in terms of energy and clarity and vibrant health. A little steamed veg and quinoa and stuff like that makes up the rest of the diet, and I am a bit of a sucker for Green & Blacks vegan chocolate (esp. ginger...mmmmm!).

In terms of spiritual work, the cleaner you are inside, the easier it is to receive the Word, Dao whatever, in my developing opinion...less resistance, from a cellular level and upwards. Aligning with the Way, basically, from the most basic beginnings - you are, literally, what you eat, combined with what you feel - the combination creates vibrations which remain locked in the very stuff you are made of - which is why eating when depressed is a very bad idea. In emotional states, people often go for 'comfort foods', which is disastrous - building toxic cellular tissue, imprinted with the emotional state present while consuming and digesting.

Any reasonably well versed yoga practitioner or chinese medicine healer will know the truth of this - witness people doing yoga for the first few times suddenly, in a certain posture, bursting into floods of uncontrollable tears - it happens all the time, regularly. Same with fasting and cleansing, you break up and dislodge the emotional wells stored in the tissues of your body.

S'funny, cos its something the Daime told me right back at the beginning when I first started drinking, I think I even wrote it in one of my reports last year. It's now, a year and a half later, that the truth of it and scientific studies etc. have become really apparent and brought in front of my radar.

It's really fired my interest in the Essenes, as well...you might like to look into it. Read the Essene Gospel of Peace and the Gospel of the Holy Twelve...fascinating business. I strongly suspect Jesus was a (relatively) secret initiate of the Essenes, initiated by john the Baptist, and these dudes have a tradition handed down from the Egyptians...it's very interesting, nothing like the vanilla 'Christianity' being taught in churches in the West. As religion goes, I've barely ever read anything more reasonable and self-evident to a seeking heart and mind. It's so much like root Daoism / Buddhism it may as well be the same thing, albeit with some different 'spices in the poetry'.
 
 
Morgana
11:41 / 11.03.06
Wow, that's a lot to think over and consider for my next fasting. As I'm sure now, I'll make this a regular practice, at least once a year. In fact I've been observing my body to do something similar, kind of cleaning procedure, for a couple of years, always around the first of November, for some reason. Last time it was really cool - after my body seemingly poured out everything unhealthy, I went through a prolongued period of not liking most food, so I had a for some reason very proteine-based diet for several weeks. And I just felt great during this time, having much more power than before and getting into euphoric states, then again feeling a deep gratitude just for the beauty of life. Up to that day I had always believed my body doesn't function without food, at all.

So I guess my next go for it will be in November, to help my body with what it's doing anyway. Guess it will be a lot easier, then.

As for detoxication, I had imagined it to be a lot tougher. But my skin is clear (though it tends to react to stress etc.) and everything is fine, too, apart from the symptoms I described. Which seem to be over now - I'm suddenly feeling much stronger in body and mind (as you can see from the amount of my writing - really had difficulties formulating my thoughts in a foreign language those last two days). I've been a vegetarian for nearly 20 years now, I never smoked and I can't do with much alcohol, anyway, so I guess I've had a good starting position.

Enemas - uuuugh! That's what could keep me from water-fasting. For now, one glass of sour cabbage juice usually does the trick. But perhaps it would be a good occasion to deal with my revulsion.

Couldn't bring myself to cooking broth myself, yet - guess the sight and smell of real food would kill me. So I'm using an instant product at the moment - an organic one, of course. Perhaps I'll change that on monday.

And you're right, I should really change my lecture to more spiritual stuff. I think, now is the right time. The last two days and this morning my mind seemed to have closed down, but now it opened again and hopefully will stay like this.

I'm starting to feel really comfortable, you know. It's always great to manage a crisis.

Thanks for your many advices!
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
07:53 / 06.06.06
Well Jesus H. Particular Christ.

That was the most intense, incredible, valuable, profound and sacred thing I have ever done in my life.

Since you asked.

3 days with 6 glasses of juice, then 10 days nothing but water, then 3 days juices again (today last day). Gentle foods tomorrow for the next week

6 hours meditation per day, plus 6 days solid pathworking and ceremonial malarkey in the middle. I have completely blown all my expectations out of the water. I am double-threaded. Double Memory. Twin processor. Plugged straight into the mains. Supercoinductive. I feel UTTERLY FUCKING INCREDIBLE. My journal is about 40-50 pages...unbelievable dream-work still ongoing.

And, to cap it all...San Antonio's Day Celebrations with my favourite Loons in the World this weekend. Iagé out the Ya-hey with a Hefty Wallop of YHWH. If you see what I mean.

I am expecting fireworks.

See you in the Astral. :-)
 
 
Ticker
15:44 / 07.06.06
yay for fasting!

I have noticed though as an after effect, my body ceases to be tolerant of certain foods. The more I improved myself through both true fasts and abstaining fasts (when you eliminate certain foods/drink/behavior) the less I was able to go back.

Eventually I was able to rid myself of some really unpleasant ailments but the trade off was now I cannot eat or drink certain things without getting a massive reaction. My healer calls this the body's barometer being re-calibrated. I'm quite happy with the tradeoff of health for not eating crappy modern food, but some folks may want to go back to old eating habits.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss mucous plugs and the like, but when you slough off the nasty ick in your gut, you become more sensitive less tolerant. Some new food allergies may appear as your body wisdom becomes louder.

For those who cannot do a true water fast because of blood sugar issues there are two options. The first is vegan which is often called the 'Master Cleanse'. You make a fresh drink mixture of lemon juice/cayanne pepper/spring water/tree syrup(often maple). The second option which is vegetarian is a raw milk diet. Both are also considered great tools for extended fasts.


Whatever fast you select, I strongly encourage people to have a knowledgeable person to check in with daily. This person should be able to offer encouragement but also caution regarding any physical difficulties you might be experiencing. If you need to slow a fast down, your guide/helper should be able to provide a non compromised mental view point as a counter to your possibly not-so-grounded one. This person is also usually the one who is curious about what you are passing! Remember slowing a fast down can be just as wise as fasting in the first place.

Please do not drive on an extended fast! While you might feel great and clear mentally you may not be able to physically react as quickly as you normally do. Remember a fast is a time to honor yourself with nourishing and centered activity.

A short one day fast is a wonderful way to mark a meaningful event and is often useful in dealing with grief.

Namaste!
 
 
SteppersFan
18:55 / 07.06.06
Thanks for letting us know WholeI, I appreciate it.
I feel UTTERLY FUCKING INCREDIBLE.
Congratulations!
6 hours meditation per day, plus 6 days solid pathworking and ceremonial malarkey in the middle.
Nice one. How'd you work this out with work etc?
And, to cap it all...San Antonio's Day Celebrations with my favourite Loons in the World this weekend.
Lucky fella! Enjoy.
See you in the Astral. :-)
Tempted to say I just did but that would be glib!
 
 
lekvar
01:39 / 08.06.06
This thread got me thinking from the skeptic's point of view. The National Insitute of Health has some very interesting things to say about the practice:

Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced morbidity, and increased life span... intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice that are independent of caloric intake.

I can't find the article I located earlier that linked ocasional fasting to reduced symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis, but I swear it was there last time I searched...

A good google search for the pertinent info here.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
08:22 / 08.06.06
lekvar - I am intrigued. You establish legitimacy and credence as a 'skeptic' how, exactly? Genuine question.
 
 
lekvar
21:12 / 08.06.06
I'm sorry, do you mean "how do you establish yourself as a skeptic?"

Here's the story more or less in full -

I always thought fasting was, to put it bluntly, bunk. When I saw this thread the first time, when you were actually doing your first fast back in '05, I read it with interest but remained skeptical as to the actual benefits of fasting. Realizing that I was operating under unchallenged assumptions I went to the National Institute of Health's website to see what it had to say on the subject. What I read there was uniformly positive.

I should have shared it when I found it, but I'm scatterbrained.

I know that skeptics are usually accepted into the Temple so long as they are respectful. I also thought that the Temple as a whole might be interested to know what the scientific community thought of the practice. And, if the Temple community aren't interested, the other skeptics who hang out might appreciate having their horizons broadened.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
08:42 / 09.06.06
I see.

And the NIH are not deserving of at least equal skepticism as any other source of information? Your search for legitimacy and credence starts and ends with a web search of a US Gov't. department?

Just interested in how 'skeptical' you really are. You state that you thought fasting was, to put it bluntly, bunk.

Care to explain why? I know you state that this assumption was unchallenged, so then you challenged it...how? I agree with you that starting from a position of 'Accept nothing as unreasonable. Accept nothing as reasonable without thorough investigation' is undoubtedly the most sensible ground-zero for beginning a study of something, I'm just further questioning your personal exploration of 'thorough investigation'.

I hope this isn't read as combative, which is not my intention. Just interested in examining these claims to 'skepticism' which regularly crop up here in the Temple, but which often (though not necessarily in this case) are something else entirely.

skep·ti·cism also scep·ti·cism

1. A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind; dubiety. See Synonyms at uncertainty.
2. Philosophy.
1. The ancient school of Pyrrho of Elis that stressed the uncertainty of our beliefs in order to oppose dogmatism.
2. The doctrine that absolute knowledge is impossible, either in a particular domain or in general.
3. A methodology based on an assumption of doubt with the aim of acquiring approximate or relative certainty.
3. Doubt or disbelief of religious tenets.

You might also note:

zetetic

\Ze*tet"ic\, a. [Gr. ?, fr. ? to seek: cf. F. z['e]t['e]tique.] Seeking; proceeding by inquiry.

Zetetic method (Math.), the method used for finding the value of unknown quantities by direct search, in investigation, or in the solution of problems. [R.] --Hutton.

And I guess this is interesting as well:

he·gem·o·ny
n. pl. he·gem·o·nies

The predominant influence, as of a state, region, or group, over another or others.

Perhaps another thread, if I have time today.
 
 
lekvar
19:08 / 09.06.06
And the NIH are not deserving of at least equal skepticism as any other source of information?

Yes, they are, absolutely. Papers submitted to the NIH are subjected to peer review, inspected for faulty logic and/or biased results. I don't have the training to personally subject the claims to rigorous inspection so I have to trust that others do. I am taking it as an article of faith (yes, faith) that the individuals charged with making sure that research remains free of subjectivity are doing their job. This is not always the case, and bad data can enter the discourse.

Your search for legitimacy and credence starts and ends with a web search of a US Gov't. department?

Actually, it started here. It only ended at the NIH website after I examined my own thoughts and reactions to your posts. I found some data published by the scientific community that I thought would be interesting to our community, as I stated earlier. Their papers on the subject of fasting backs up your claim, and that of others, that periodic fasting is a healthy and beneficial activity.

Just interested in how 'skeptical' you really are.

Why the challenge? Why the scare quotes? I'm sorry if I offended. Honestly, I apologize. Say the word and I'll request that the mods remove my posts.

You state that you thought fasting was, to put it bluntly, bunk.
Care to explain why?


'Til this point I had only heard the benefits of fasting put forth as assertions by individuals. The descriptions of the benefits and the explanations for said benefits were most often vague, often contradictory. The vagueness and the contradictions are what led me to doubt the claims I'd heard.

I know you state that this assumption was unchallenged, so then you challenged it...how?

I challenged my assumption by recognizing it for what it was and deciding to seek a truth outside of myself, a less subjective source of information.

I hope this isn't read as combative

I'm reading it as quite combative. I've found that scare quotes and dictionary definitions are most often associated with a challenge. You're asking me to explain myself, which I've already tried to do. Did my mention of skepticism set you off? If so I apologize for my poor choice of wording. I thought that an olive branch from the skeptic community that the Temple is so indulgent of would be better received.

skep·ti·cism also scep·ti·cism

1. A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind; dubiety. See Synonyms at uncertainty.


I doubted the assertions I had been given. I doubted my own assumptions. Both, to my satisfaction, have been answered. I now believe that there are significant benefits to periodic fasting, contrary to my previous belief.

3. A methodology based on an assumption of doubt with the aim of acquiring approximate or relative certainty.

See above.

I presented my initial post as one of transformation, not challenge. I posted because you induced me to look beyond my baseless opinions to find the truth in what you said, to show that you had taught me something. Your thread led me to question and learn. I in turn presented you, and the Temple community, with something I had learned. I know that other skeptics, empiricists, science-worshipers, what-have-you, also read the Temple threads. I presented my discovery for the general edification.

In doing so, I seem to have gotten your hackles up. If so, my humblest apologies. Feel free to moderate as you see fit.
 
 
l gyre
23:56 / 09.06.06
wow, i'm happy to see this thread. i just got my password last week and have been considering starting a fasting thread and/or waiting for something i felt like posting about to come along.

anyway, i'm currently on day 8 of a 10 day lemonade fast. it has been really interesting. i've done 7 day fasts before (about 2 per year) and one day (the new moon) of only water every month, but this is the longest i've ever gone. in some ways it has really gotten easier. for example, though i still have hunger pains this time, i feel like i'm suffering less in the sense that my pain is less tied to an uncontrollable urge to do something about it. i've been more able to relax and just do moderately normal activities.

on the other hand, i always get different interesting cleansing reactions pretty much every time i fast. this time it was intense aching in certain gland areas that would start suddenly, then stop or move suddenly. one other new thing is that my tongue is finally getting clean of scunge, which gives me renewed faith in fasting-- people always say that's supposed to happen as you start to get cleansed, but that's never happened to me before.

for people who are interested in fasting, i suggest trying several different kinds and seeing how you feel about them. personally i like the lemonade (though not that much, so i can keep my calorie intake low, and maybe with a few days of water near the end). i've tried colonics and find them fine but i'm way less sold on them than i am on fasting in terms of effects i can perceive. i really recommend the book _the fasting path_ which adresses fasting from a spiritual perspective but also with scientific information about the changes your body goes through.

oh, and one last thing: have you considered guacamole as a fast-breaking food? it is mostly avocado which is a fruit, after all, and it is so good. mmm. two more days...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
11:44 / 11.06.06
lekvar - hey man...don't sweat it one bit...we in there like swimwear...the apologies are all mine, for coming across like that...thanks for a detailed response, it's just what i was enquiring about is all...respect to you sir!
 
 
Ticker
23:16 / 11.06.06
I'm ending day 1 of a 10 day lunar/solstice fast. Because I have a demanding brain-centric job I can't take time off from (I'm on call 24x7), I've chosen a raw goat milk fast. This involves consuming four 8 oz. glasses of milk spaced throughout the day along with water and herbal tea. I'm digging the connection between the milk and the moon as well as going to visit the goat ladies and thanking them for their nurishment. I've tried doing it with juice fasts before but even the green veggie juices tend to spike my blood sugar levels too much. I also have a pain-in-the-butt circulation disorder that acts up if my blood sugar drops too low when it isn't scorching out. Meh.

I'm hoping to segue from the milk to a few days of true water fasting if it warms up here and I can get some time off. It would be wonderful to have a few days of water'n'yoga and staring at clouds.

Wish me luck!
 
 
Ticker
18:53 / 14.06.06
I'm not intending this to be bloggy as I'm hoping to post only things which might be useful to others. Your indulgence is appreciated.

It's mid day on day 4, I've missed my noon glass of milk due to a meeting and am getting a bit too spacey. I've never tried to do a water only fast while working and what is happening now reaffirms my reasons. The potent ginger tea is helping bring me back a bit but I'm finding it hard to concentrate. My meeting was a lunch event and it was quite strange to watch people eat. I didn't really have any cravings but the sparkling water was nice to futz with.

I've been combining thoughtfulness and prayer with my ritual 4 glasses of milk while aligning myself with the moon and the sun. (YAY for the nearby goats!)
Every night I've been doing a ritual action and I find it quite easy to slip into an altered state of perception. Most of my work has been in the local cemetery which is a great liminal space being on the edge of the tidal river and town. I've been working there, at my outside altar, and in my garden. It has always felt natural to do ritual outside in the company of the old stones and reminders of ancestors.

After Gypsy Lantern and Quantum brought up the question/thread of working locally, I've made it a point to check in with my local guides. I shared the full moon rise on sunday with a two hundred year+ giant maple tree. I waited with the fireflies then watched the moon burn up through the flickering black leaves.

The milk only semi fast has reminded me of the magical connection inherent in taking sustenance from other creatures/plants. It feels quite natural to only use special cobalt blue glasses to hold the pure white milk while focusing on the lunar phase. The mindfulness and gratitude I feel for the sweet-pie goats or the tangy ginger is so much more satisfying than many lavish meals I've eaten. It becomes a communion through intent and I'm reminded that all of my life should be held in reverence.

Again I hope this is useful info.
 
 
Elettaria
23:35 / 16.09.06
With Ramadam and Yom Kippur coming up, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Anyone else Muslim or Jewish on the board?

It's been slightly strange for me reading this thread, which is primarily magic-based experiences of fasting, since Jewish fasting is so different, so I thought I'd inflict some waffling on the subject on you. I should probably mention now that I've only ever observed one fast, Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. There are various minor fasts throughout the year, for instance for the festival commemorating the Destruction of the Temple, but they tend not to be observed by non-Orthodox Jews. I'm somewhere between Reform and Liberal, probably agnostic but still a fairly active member of the community. I've had ME/CFIDS for over nine years so I haven't been able to fast in a long time for medical reasons, but I do the best I can.

The Jewish day lasts for 25 hours (don't ask), from the start of one sunset to the finish of the next. The Jewish calendar, unlike the Muslim one, more or less adds up to a year, so the festival is at roughly the same time every year. The fast is for the entirety of that "day" (whereas Ramadan involves fasting from dawn to dusk), and means that you abstain from food, drink, washing, and sexual intercourse, which I believe is the same in Islam. In theory, you spend most of the time in synagogue when you're not asleep, with an evening service (the Kol Nidre) on the first day, and a series of services from the morning to the evening of the second day. It is traditional to stand for the entirety of the last service, Neilah, but by that time many people are too exhausted, especially the ones who've been there all day, which is draining but spiritually a wonderful and strange experience. The music is particularly beautiful, the liturgy is highly poetic and moving, and even though it's one of the grimmest of Jewish festivals, it's the favourite for many people.

For less observant Jews, if there's one day you'll see them in synagogue, it's Yom Kippur. I know that many observe the fast as a matter of form, abstaining from food and drink but not, say, abstaining from washing or brushing their teeth. I usually wash shortly before I have to leave for the Kol Nidre service and that does me till the next evening. I'll do something quick and practical with my hair in the morning, it's too long to leave unattended. My mother finds it odd that I dress formally but simply (with some white, as is traditional - there's a shroud reference but almost no one actually wears a kittel, a shroud - but I hear that in Israel most people wear white) with no make-up or jewellery, since she considers it disrespectful not to turn up looking properly dressed up. (Mind you, she wouldn't go to the supermarket without make-up on.) For me, that is being too much tied to this world. The fast is about penitence, purity, focusing on the spiritual rather than the physical. There's a tradition of not wearing leather shoes, which actually goes back to avoiding luxuries (sandals), though rumour has it that it's about kindness to animals (which isn't going to be affected by wearing trainers one day of the year); I've not worn leather for half my life, this one doesn't apply to me. It seems more a marker of difference.

Judaism prohibits fasting if you are medically unable to, though I've heard some nonsense about the permissible ways of breaking the fast from ultra-Orthodox sources. I'd like to fast, I frequently forget to eat for half a day at a time anyway, but being in synagogue for even half the services is exhausting enough as it is, I risk keeling over even if I do eat. I compromise by making up a batch of apple flapjacks, which are small, discreet, don't require much time or thought to eat, and do a good job of sustaining me, and hiding them in my bag along with some water. Apples, incidentally, are traditional for this festival cycle, in particular for Rosh Hashanah, New Year, which occurs ten days earlier. They're meant to represent a sweet and fruitful new year (no, mother, I'm not supplying grandchildren just yet, stop giving me that look).

So I do fast in a way. I certainly retreat from my usual life and bodily habits, and it's rather nice having the tradition of making the same special food every year to fast on, especially since it's something which permits me to pay the minimum of attention to eating. For the periods when I'm not at synagogue, I curl up at home with the prayer book (the Reform one as the translations and excerpts are better, the services are longer and the study anthology is amazing) and then usually move onto something vaguely appropriate to read, such as Primo Levi since it's also a day for remembrance of the dead and there's a traditional focus on the Holocaust.

It always amazes me how empty a day is when you take your usual physical habits out of it, especially when you do do deliberately. There's a weird spacey feeling and a strong sense of being isolated from other people, since either you're engaging in communal prayer following a liturgy or you're alone with your thoughts. The absence of chatting is probably the most noticeable point of fasting for me!

It's an intensely communal experience in other ways, though. We spend a lot of time together, we recite our sins together, sung and spoken, Hebrew and English, and everyone reads the same list, partly because you can hardly say, "Ok, everyone who's committed adultery raise your hand," and partly because the idea is that we're each responsible for the sins of our whole community. The sins listed can be against God, against ourselves, or against our fellows (you can spot where it said "fellow men" before non-gender-specific translations came in), but the biggest focus is on the third category, the social. And I suppose that fasting as a group ensures that we are all following an identical pattern for that highly social form of human behaviour, eating. I've always found the tradition of breaking the fast communally, whether with a family meal or a synagogue community one, rather jarring. Even though the synagogue services are designed to take you into the deepest part of the day and then back out again, it still seems too sharp a transition back to the social. Everything seems too noisy and subtly off-key, and making a fuss over food (such as picking your pizza) seems almost indecent. At least it's a decisive change, though; going back home and putting some pasta on alone always felt a bit like I wasn't in either world.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:03 / 17.09.06
Fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing your perspective, Elettaria.
 
 
Ticker
12:54 / 28.12.06
it's that time of year again and I'm starting a bit early on a juice/raw veg/fruit fast. This time I'm also taking Ayurvedic triphala in tablet form. It's the third day and the triphala gave me a wicked case of nausea for about 20 min this morning. Doing a little bit more research I found it is suggested you induce vomiting if this happens to rid the stomach of accumulated phlegm or undigested food . However I'm not really big on inducing the upheavel so I'm sipping ginger tisane and riding it out. I'm taking the tablet as the churna/tea form is supposed to taste like uber ass:

Since for most it does not possess a flavor that one would look forward to experiencing, it is convenient that Triphala is available in tablet or capsule form.

The Wonders of Triphala


My plan is to stick to the fresh juice for another day and then segue to a lemon-cayanne water fast for a few more. It's a fairly busy time at work so I'm trying to arrange my fast so the low energy days fall on the holiday. When I'm just on water I really do not want to do much more than yoga and napping. Hooping will be a nice treat.

Anyone else doing/planning a fast?
 
 
setsuna
17:42 / 28.12.06
I'm a few days off of a week-long Master Cleanse. I know of no better way to reboot. I used to do water fasts, but I like the Master Cleanse much better. I think it does facilitate the detox process. The energy is amazing. I'm still off caffeine, and I was up to 800-900 mg at one point.

On the last night, my right side over my liver was reaally hot, as if I had a heating pad on it. I've never had a detox symptom like that before.

But, yeah - my plan is to do this four times a year for a week at a time. I have a lot of emotional ties to food, so I see this as a good way to hit the reset button before things start to spiral out of control.
 
 
Ticker
18:34 / 28.12.06
lemon/water/cayanne/tree syrup = Master Cleanse?
I schedule 1-3 days of it in the middle of my juice fast with an on | off ramp approach.

Do you use the salt water flushes as well?
 
 
setsuna
18:49 / 28.12.06
Yep, that would be the Master Cleanse. I kind of got tired of that lemonade concoction towards the end and it started turning into a water fast, so I quit. But energy wise, I could've easily kept going.

Salt water flushes are great. I almost think they're fun, but I'm strange like that.
 
  

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