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What is a 'warrior'?

 
  

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Gypsy Lantern
13:39 / 13.12.05
The concept of "The Warrior" as I'm coming to understand it in the course of ongoing magical work, is intimately related to the aspect of a human being that seeks to shape and control his or her environment. It is about progress. Why do we fight? Why do we struggle? It's because we're trying to get somewhere other than where we are right now. The Warrior is the monkey at the start of "2001" who first picks up a bone and realises it can be used as a tool to cave another monkey's head in - thus furthering his progress and leading directly to mankind's journey into space. The spirit of the warrior is the principle that leads us to fashion tools and shape our world, leading to civilisation, industry, technology. Everything we take for granted in our world has been fought for. We live the way that we do because of the struggles of our ancestors.

These are the mysteries of the Warrior. Struggling tooth and nail for survival and for a better world. It's a two edged sword. Tools can be used to kill and to create. The Warrior carries progress and destruction. These mysteries are brutal and uncompromising, and may not appeal to polite middle class sensibilities - but they are what has driven the hard, bloody, messy, ugly struggle of human evolution that has given us space to cultivate the luxury of such sensibilities. The Warrior mysteries are a part of our make up, a part of our heritage, and a part of what makes us what we are as a species. Working magically with the mysteries of the Warrior is about understanding that and being able to access it. It's about having a dialogue and a relationship with that aspect of us, as human beings. A warrior is not "a guy that bullies the weak" or "a guy that protects the meek" - it is a person who is prepared to fight. What you choose to fight for is your decision and your responsibility. It can cut both ways, but the act of cutting is the work of the warrior. The ethics and morals of how you choose to cut are something you have to decide for yourself.
 
 
SteppersFan
14:11 / 13.12.05
fair enough. i guess i'm just skeptical of fighting as a metaphor for life. i think our culture puts quite enough of the fighting / cutting aspect of male-ness into us. i'm much more interested in the fluffy, healing side of masculinity.
 
 
Sekhmet
14:18 / 13.12.05
Who says the warrior is necessarily masculine?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:39 / 13.12.05
Mmm. In respect of GL's outline of the warrior mysteries, I'm reminded of this quote from abolitionist Frederick Douglass:

Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:53 / 13.12.05
Who says the warrior is necessarily masculine?

Not me, love.

In fact, I am a diletant devotee of Sekhmet
 
 
Morgana
08:17 / 14.12.05
I've known some female occultists calling themselves a "warrior" - with similar results to what 2stepfan describes. I don't think it's a gender thing. It's rather the general mistake of taking some concept like "warrior" or "do-what-thou-wilt" and using it as an excuse for immature behaviour.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:49 / 14.12.05
Totally agree with you there. I think you have to make a distinction between concepts such as the Warrior mysteries and "do as thou wilt", and the appropriation of those ideas by dumb, annoying occultists looking for a psuedo-mystical excuse to behave in a dumb and annoying manner.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:26 / 14.12.05
Yes, that's an important distinction to make--the mysteries hiding behind a term as opposed to the appropriation of that term by people looking to excuse bad behaviour. The supposed "Warrior" who beats up hir spouse; "Divine madness" expressed by means of Monty Python quotes ad nauseum; the "Sacred Whore" who can't keep hir trousers on; and so on and so on.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:01 / 14.12.05
I have been thinking about this in relation to pureland buddhism and the tree of life, amitbha buddah has at his right hand a bodhissattva of srenght and at his left a bodhissatva of mercy (guan shih yin pa su). similar in character to the tree with its respective pillars.

Gypsys comments about cutting, severing could in the above context present the warrior as severity, srenght that knows when to make the cut and knows it must face the consequences of the action of cutting, seeing the resistance and strategy of what must be cut through, being decisive in vision and having srenght and courage to face conflict and aversion, being able to unsheath a weapon and strike.

Not letting the current of violent penetrating action or the wounds of battles past fester and putrify to become toxic psychopathology of the warrior turned into cruelty and revenge, heartless action, a sword swung without intelligent instinctual awareness and compassion.

Perhaps in that respect the warrior must balance an action with the intention of emotion and heart that is involved with the reason for the action of cutting, knowing when to show mercy for those a conflict is with, wisdom to the attention of wounds upon the warrior, time for healing and reflection, time to reinvision and set new strategies for battles.To understand an enemy so a greater understanding of self is known.

To know how to rest in times of peace and wait like a tiger when instinct prepares for the war ahead.
 
 
Quantum
10:46 / 15.12.05
Okay, weighing in perhaps inadvisedly- why the modern interest in the way of the warrior? Is it due to Castaneda's Don Juan? The appropriation of tribal cultures? How often are any of us in a fight, not very often I suspect, we live lives of peace for the most part.

I agree with Gypsy's definition of a Warrior as it happens, with a leaning toward a more chivalrous protector-of-the-weak/land/sacred-mysteries role.
But I'm more of a way of the Cahuna man myself, I'm a lover not a fighter, and the Polynesian shamanic traditions with their emphasis on ecstatic practice rather than on conflict appeal to me more than the Native American traditions. I'd act without hesitation to battle evil or protect people, but I'm not a warrior- I think it's better to avert conflict inj the first place.

So, why emphasise the Way of the Warrior?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:14 / 15.12.05
So, why emphasise the Way of the Warrior?

I'm not sure how I can respond to that other than reiterating what I wrote in my previous post, with specific emphasis on this bit:

The warrior mysteries may not appeal to polite middle class sensibilities - but they are what has driven the hard, bloody, messy, ugly struggle of human evolution that has given us space to cultivate the luxury of such sensibilities.

The lives of peace that you mention are born from struggle. Civilisation and stability have been fought for. The human being is basically an animal that has learned how to make killing tools to rise to the top of the food chain, shape and control its environment and establish its "civilisation". This is probably a far more tenuous and flimsy construct than we choose to believe. We are animals and the concerns of our lives are, ultimately, animal concerns. It's easy to forget that, but we are. It's easy to pretend that bacon comes in clean shrink wrap on well lit supermarket shelves, and try not to think about the living, breathing pig that has been killed to feed you. The warrior mysteries are our teeth and claws. It's what we use to struggle, and we struggle every day. We don't have to go out and hunt and kill our own food anymore, but we do have to struggle to keep a roof over our heads and food on our table. The fragility of our comparatively easy lives is worth thinking about. The warrior mysteries is the instinct to survive and win against the odds. It's what has driven us as human beings since the first monkey picked up a bone and used it as a tool.

You perspective seems to suggest a belief that this instinct, this aspect of a human being's raw animal nature, is in the process of being bred out of us by the march of progress, and we have no more need of that aspect of our animal heritage. I'm not so sure about that. Certainly it has been sublimated and things like a hunting instinct and natural balance have atrophied through lack of use. But does that mean obsolescence? Is this facet of our nature now completely irrelevant? Are we developing into floating brains in meat robots? Do we live in perfect, safe, secure, happy and nourishing environments where all our needs are taken care of, where there is no danger or threat from anything, and we never have to work or struggle to get anything because its all freely available? Of course we don't. There is a comforting illusion that we are protected from nature red in tooth and claw by the protective bubble of civilisation - but to what extent is that wishful thinking?

The warrior mysteries are about accessing this aspect of our nature, cultivating it within us, the part of us that is prepared to struggle, that won't give in, that stands tall and finds a way to win despite unfavourable odds. To work with these mysteries is to understand this part of ourselves and make good and effective use of it in our lives. The hunting instinct might express itself in the investigative journalism of a reporter seeking out the truth of a political cover up. The warriors tenacity might express itself as firm resolve in a court room. These instincts are still a part of our nature and still a part of our culture and civilisation - we just pretend that it's something else.

Also, I think you're looking at this as an either/or scenario. I'm not talking about some contemptible weekend workshop "way of the warrior" or the cultural appropriation of an imagined native American tribal code for living. It's about recognising and understanding an aspect of our nature as human animals and putting it to good use rather than sublimating it. Neither am I talking about emphasising this aspect over any other part of our multifaceted nature. Balance is all important. If you're going to explore the Warrior Mysteries, then I think its a good idea that you have other aspects of your magical life that balance it out and provide a counterpoint. It's one set of mysteries among many, and obsessing on the warrior mysteries to the exclusion of the others is probably not a good idea (unless you actually are about to go to war...), but overlooking them and pretending that they do not exist and are not an integral part of human nature and the human experience is probably not a good idea either.
 
 
illmatic
12:47 / 15.12.05
Good post. Reminds me of wht Nema had to say about the Forgotten Ones, and Linda Falario's comments on The Shadow Tarot.

And I very much agree with this:

I think its a good idea that you have other aspects of your magical life that balance it out and provide a counterpoint

If I'm not mistaken there's some interesting conceptions on warriorhood in Choygam Trunpa's work which takes on the idea of the "internal battle" - being fearlessly compassionate and having courage when faced with your own crap, ego, compulsions.
 
 
Quantum
13:45 / 15.12.05
Your perspective seems to suggest a belief that this instinct, this aspect of a human being's raw animal nature, is in the process of being bred out of us by the march of progress, and we have no more need of that aspect of our animal heritage.

Nuh-uh, I agree civilization is barely skin deep, all it takes is a bit of adversity and we'll all be attacking each other with rocks and sticks. I'm in touch with my aggressive side, and the grit and determination we sometimes need, but I see a lot of weekend warriors around and I think there are better things to focus on. Conflict isn't something to specialise in IMHO, I notice that those who carry knives get stabbed and those who train in fighting get into fights.
I agree you have to keep a fist to hand as it were, but there's a lot of 'warriors' for a time of peace.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:44 / 15.12.05
I think the problem with this thread is the diversity of meanings that can be attributed to the rather vague term "warrior". I don't really know what you mean when you say "weekend warrior" - are you talking about people who go on new age workshops about largely made-up native American warrior shamanism? Do you mean football hooligans? People who do martial arts? People in the territorial army? What, exactly?

What are you suggesting? That there is absolutely no place for magical work along these lines in modern occultism? That this side of human nature should indeed be overlooked and sublimated in favour of more fluffy mysteries? I'm not following your argument beyond a vague "Kaiser Chiefs-esque"* disapproval about too many aggressive people on our streets and in our temples.

My position is that these mysteries are an integral part of our make-up and experience and should be accepted, understood, integrated, cultivated, given healthy expression and put to constructive use. Rather than neglected, airbrushed over, forgotten, allowed to fester, and left to wither and atrophy. Accepting these mysteries is as much a part of being a healthy human being as accepting the mysteries of love or peace or fertility. In Quabala you would probably place this stuff on the Pillar of Severity within Geburah. In Santeria, these are the Mysteries of Ogun. Every pantheon has a place for this aspect of our being, because it is an aspect of our being, and magicians are in the business of exploring such territory. To avoid looking at it is a bit like shying away from speaking to deities associated with death because of the fear of your own mortality. Which is, of course, all the more reason to do so.

You attitude to this seems to imply that you think there's something almost indulgent about these mysteries, that it's all about giving in to a primal aggression and marauding like a berserker to dominate and force your will on the world. I think it's more complex than that. It's not all about picking fights. It's not about fantasy and fantasies of violence, but the cold reality of it. Speak to any proper martial artist and they will be all about conflict resolution and avoidance. If you train realistically, you get a good idea of how messy, ugly, unpredictable and fucking horrible a real fight can be. You do whatever you can to avoid it. I would consider this a part of the warrior mysteries as well, an informed understanding of how to avoid battles that don't really need to be fought. A weariness of war. An understanding of both its futility and its necessity, and the paradox of that. It's complex stuff, and I don't think you're really doing it justice.

* That was low, sorry.
 
 
sdv (non-human)
15:06 / 15.12.05
Try Georges Dumezil - 'the destiny of the warrior' (hard to get hold of but critical piece of work on this area) you can see a brief summary on Deleuze and Guattari's ATP... if you can't find the original source..
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:39 / 15.12.05
To add to that, and re-iterate, I think it's about equanimous and detached honesty...brutal honesty...with yourself and others, in the face of the adversity of existence. It's about t'ai chi, the Supreme Ultimate, and following the path through life as water follows a path through rocks, with least resistance, but able to wear away the hardest. Avoiding the unecessary struggles, to concentrate on the forward journey.

To exist is to struggle, and fight, as Gypsy has pointed out, and only by the brutality and violence and sacrifice and struggle of our ancestors are we able to sit in centrally heated homes genuflecting on the awfulness of that history and wringing our hands at the inescapable nastiness of survival...

Ancient Daoist rituals had participants lovingly craft straw dogs, and other animals, taking hours, days over the careful creation of these delicate representations of 'the ten thousand things' arising from being. Great reverence was accorded these totems throughout. Once the ritual was finished, the token creatures were trampled and destroyed under foot, a parable of life if ever there was one. The warrior is the one who tends to their own straw dog with contant presence, clarity and artistry, so that when the time comes to be trampled, there is no regret and little to be sad of.
 
 
Digital Hermes
19:54 / 15.12.05
I'd have to agree with Gypsy's assertion that this whole issue doesn't have to be an either/or situation. It's possible to have qualities of the warrior: their tenacity, dedication, etc.

Something that this thread has made sweepingly clear is the spectrum of viewpoints on what constitutes a warrior. For some, it's a bloody savage, who uses violence, even if other choices are available. Others seem to be focused on men of honour, living by codes of chivalry or bushido. I know that's my own viewpoint, and something I attempt to utilise in my own workings.

I thing Quantum's question deserves some looking at too:

why the modern interest in the way of the warrior?

Leaving aside the either/or notion, why is there this interest? I'm thinking it's borne out of fiction/mythology, which is exerting a heavy hand in most of the major media out there lately, in particular, movies. Again, Gypsy's got a point placing the warrior aspect in the Geburah sephiroth; it's part of us and not something to be denied. But why follow it as an archtype? It's something I do, so I'm not indicating a positive or negative here, just a fulcrum-point of discussion.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:56 / 16.12.05
Perhaps its becasuse life driven by capital is becoming increasingly more competitive, because resources are becoming scarce, because the world politically and religously seems to be at war about internal identity as much as external display. Lots of perhaps.

I think it has less to do with mythology and fantasy than the reality that is being faced on a daily basis by many people, the social environment seems to have a sublimated fear present. Again lots of perhaps.

I also think it has something to do with the post modern rejection of rationality and the return to instinctual archaic awareness and magical thinking, a return to a gutteral interaction in relationships. Maybe.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:30 / 16.12.05
Quantum, I think this speaks directly to your comment that there's a lot of 'warriors' for a time of peace.

the social environment seems to have a sublimated fear present.

I think Hairy Angel has a point. For many people this is not "a time of peace." From what I see, there is war and injustice all over the globe, and a lot of people are afraid, and a lot of people are angry. A lot of people are also genuinely interested in seeing an end to the status quo. That's the sort of struggle for which a warrior archetype might be useful, and the sort of environment that would encourage people to look at that style of development more seriously.

I feel this is a potentially valid spiritual path - becoming a "warrior" in the same sense that others might be "healers" or "mystics". As with any path, there are people who would claim it that have no business doing so. I'd hazard that an individual with any real development under hir belt on any spiritual path should become discriminating about when not to use what they have learned. A warrior shouldn't spend all hir time antagonizing people and getting into bar-fights. However, someone who is serious about the warrior path might be well-advised to join the military or learn a martial art if they want to find practical applications for their skills. Likewise, someone who follows a healer archetype might want to get into healthcare or counseling.

And of course, some types of practice encourage this sort of thing more than others. If you follow certain deities, for example, you might find yourself called on to learn something about the warrior mysteries. Others might ask that you utterly forsake all things warlike.

Many paths up the mountain, blah blah fishcakes.
 
 
Quantum
14:41 / 16.12.05
"weekend warrior" - are you talking about people who go on new age workshops about largely made-up native American warrior shamanism?

Yes. Those people. I'm all for the integration of Mars (high in the sky at the moment) and the necessity of accepting our aggressive side, whatever symbols you couch it in. But the warrior archetype is frequently idolised out of all proportion IMHO, especially in the New Age movement. It's often misunderstood, misapplied and revered by people who might have a shallower understanding of the warrior mysteries than you or Mordant for example, like the guy who said you had to join the army to be a warrior.
 
 
Quantum
14:53 / 16.12.05
You attitude to this seems to imply that you think there's something almost indulgent about these mysteries,

Nah, I just think it's often overrated. It's only one aspect of our selves, one of the pillars, one of the Gods, and everyone should have the poet in them to balance the warrior. Samurai practised calligraphy as much as swordplay, knights were versed in the courtly arts as well as combat, the Greek soldiers (I think?) practiced philosophy *and* fighting and thought the Spartans were nutters for being so martial. As you say, there needs to be a balance.
 
 
Dead Megatron
15:33 / 16.12.05
I'm totally with Quantum on all that
 
 
Unconditional Love
16:16 / 17.12.05
The mixture of qualities seems very important in general in human interactions and institutions. Within the new age/hippy movement the most under rated quality to my mind is the warrior, the version of the warrior presented is pacified to the point of packaging without instinct or decisiveness.

A general aversion to the often brutal and violent nature of human beings, is treated as being shameful and guilt ridden, to the point where many will not defnd themselves or protect others due to there higher moral position in relation to acts that may involve violent conflict.

Isnt it this humanimal nature thou that lays at the very heart of human survival, the same set of instincts to eat, breed and seek shelter include fighting for those states of being.

That the warrior may represent the will to live in the face of adversity, the will to survive at all costs, the primal fight from slime to humon, the survivor, i am that i am that i will be and be.vigour.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
03:43 / 20.12.05
the warrior's strength (ie resolve, willpower) must be tempered with mercy (ie compassion, receptivity).

like a katana, hard and flexible.

in popular US culture, the shift in the popular warrior character was really evident in Rambo 1 and Rambo 2. In the first, he is a veteran trying to live peacefully, but is harassed until his training in self-defense expresses itself.

he's not an instigator.

in Rambo 2, more like a force of ruthless vengeance. Merciless.

bullies who annihilate those weaker than themselves.

is that a warrior?

tenix
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:27 / 20.12.05
might have a shallower understanding of the warrior mysteries than you or Mordant for example

Uh, I should probably make it clear that I personally am still pretty clueless about the whole Warrior Mysteries thing. I'm working on it, but just now my understanding is about as deep as my nail-varnish.
 
 
Quantum
14:05 / 20.12.05
Ahem, from your first post "I get that this is a reflection of my own prejudices and lack of understanding, and I'm trying to rectify that" there's a deeper understanding of it right there than the people I'm thinking of. Not painting you as a woaded warrior (although that would be terrifying to see, the Mordant berserk rage..) just not self-deluding.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:43 / 20.12.05
Just wait till the January sales.
 
 
SteppersFan
15:14 / 20.12.05
In harmony with my previous posts on this subject, I think that to exist is to love, not to fight.

I think that to equate one's life with fighting, and with aggression, is to distance oneself from compassion for self and for others, and can often be destructive of the self.

That's not to say that the ability to defend is not necessary at times... just that I think the sensibility of the warrior is not a suit to be worn every day.

Not having a go at anyone, just reflecting...
 
 
Digital Hermes
15:51 / 20.12.05
This is what makes modern occultism so interesting. Rather than any particular authority defining a warrior for us, we get to pound out our own meanings, and each of us is arriving at something different. Just gushing about how neat that is, watching the pliability of metaphor.

Now after decrying an authority, I went over to Dictionary.com to take a peek. Pardon the copy/paste.

war·ri·or Pronunciation Key (wôr-r, wr-)
n.
1. One who is engaged in or experienced in battle.
2. One who is engaged aggressively or energetically in an activity, cause, or conflict: neighborhood warriors fighting against developers.


Pretty basic, eh? A lot of what is being debated here is essentially the moral justification for this sort of person, or the applicability of it as a metaphor. I do think it's interesting that the defenition doesn't attempt to make that judgement itself. Even the second example says 'aggressively or energetically.' Some have been weighing in as warriors themselves, or from what they perceive warriors to be. For me, it's the code of a warrior, the dedication to a purpose and the rejection of obstacles to that purpose, that I find useful. I will use The Art of War, or the Book of Five Rings, as metaphors beyond physical combat, though I won't bore you with examples.

Before this post turns into an even longer essay, is this the blessing and curse of warrior-hood, that the title is morally subjective? That it tilts according to the tastes and opinions of those regarding it?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
18:46 / 20.12.05
morality is very slippery, and subjective.

that's why we have different styles of kung-fu, so to speak. Everyone develops their inner archetypes of behaviour, one of which is the warrior.

or maybe as a character in a fiction. or as a military specialist, or a willful determinate.

Came across a figure that over the past 6000 years, 47 have not involved a major conflict ie war.

that's a lot of years for a lot of cultures to be engaged in combat. Seems the warrior is a staple of much of our social interaction.

which has me wondering about non-violent considerations for the warrior in a society that increasingly eschews violent interactions (except in sport). What does a non-violent, non-combatitive, non-confrontational warrior look like these days?

-not jack
 
 
Quantum
18:48 / 20.12.05
Book of Five Rings Ah, now he was a warrior. Musashi was absolutely badass, used to kill other armed samurai in duels using only a stick, drunk. Well 'ard.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:31 / 21.12.05
Nah, I just think it's often overrated. It's only one aspect of our selves, one of the pillars, one of the Gods, and everyone should have the poet in them to balance the warrior.

I'm not so sure poet balances warrior, except in the sense of "contemplation" balancing "action". I'm wary of equating "poet" to "contemplation".

A warrior is about conflict, about being strong enough to engage it directly. Useful, but not always the best way to go; anyone here can tell you about when it's better to adopt a postition of no-fighting. When is a warrior not a warrior and all that jazz.

I think the idea of conflict is essential to this discussion.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:36 / 21.12.05
Musashi = the hardass's hardass. I can hardly believe he was ever a flesh and blood fella walking around breathing like the rest of us.
 
  

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