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Organ donation

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Regrettable Juvenilia

09:33 / 31.10.05

Had to come back to this a few days later to quell my irritation at being called a freak by Barbelith. I've been called worse of course for my ideas/beliefs on various topics, but mostly by right wing, redneck, religious fanatic types. Did I miss the part in the regulations of the board which state that I must agree and and adhere to whatever opinions become majority here? I hope I miss that small print forever.... Wonder what offensive names I'll get called now?

One person used the terms "freaks", so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that 'Barbelith' said this, or that the big scary consensus opinion-holders are ganging up on you. All I can see in this thread is mostly people talking about the reasons they have for being organ donors - I can't see why that should make you so irritated, not to mention defensive.

Lilly Nowhere Late

10:54 / 31.10.05

With respect Nina, your acceptance and or judgement of my ideas/beliefs is irrelevant. If I was trying to gain either from you, I might bore you with detailed explanations of my personal belief systems regarding such subjects. We would both have to have our final arrangements in order though because I'm quite sure that the tedium of it would kill us in the end. I am used to Barbelith being a place where a variance of ideas/beliefs is generally a good thing, with no overlords wielding spotlights and shouting,"Explain Yourself!"
Brutally Brutal Petey Shaftoe, I referred to Barbelith above more as a state of being or place than individuals. And you are right that lots of people have discussed much more important things in the thread than petty digs. I don't think I was being nastily defensive, perhaps a tad sarcastic in the end; I do think there are a lot of positive ways to help others in life and beyond, which is ultimately better than too much bickering. You might notice that I did offer some alternatives to organ donation which might appeal to those not so keen as myself to sign up.

Tryphena Absent

10:59 / 31.10.05

Lilly, I can't judge your beliefs because I don't know what they are.

11:13 / 31.10.05

I'd guess that the healthcare situation in the US does hamper things with regards to organ donation (and blood donation as well?). It does underline how lucky we are here in the UK to have something like the NHS. I don't understand why insurance companies wouldn't pay for the typing, etc for someone's organs to be donated though, surely they'd make money from handling the transfer? Apparently not.

Lily, I'm curious what your personnal beliefs are that mean you see donation as unviable (except in the circumstances you describe). If there was no problem with insurance company redtape, would you consider it?

Lilly Nowhere Late

11:45 / 31.10.05

I don't see organ donation as unvialbe for anyone other than myself. I'm all for folks doing exactly what they think best. If there was less insurance company redtape, or redtape period, and if the systems all worked better then perhaps I might reconsider for myself but my reasons are quite personal and I prefer to do more active things where I can to help. Not that I do as much as I should.
The NHS in the UK and most socialist healthcare systems are infinitely better systems than amerika's healthcare for profit way. Still, there are the issues with waiting times and ineffeciency and disorganization which may also hamper time critical organ donations. As for not charging for all the details involved with organ issues(retrieval included) have a look when you can. All medical costs can be astronomical and exclusive and downright criminal in my country.

The Return Of Rothkoid

12:00 / 31.10.05

I'm only partially signed-up for donation here, I think. My eyes stay with me. I don't feel particularly like parting with them, dead or not: that feels important to me.

It may be selfish, but fuck it: I don't give change to every person that's asking for it, either. Why would my organs be any different? I might be dead, but I'll still exercise my selectivity.

I think there is, however, a prevailing sentiment that it's what you're supposed to do; sign up and donate all. (I don't mean here, I mean in real life.) Automatically, people who don't are looked at askance, which I find curious. What's wrong with wanting to have some body control? Some people feel, presumably, rather strongly about having all their bits together when they go. Who knows: if there's bars in the afterlife, maybe you'll be unable to enter if you don't have your phantom liver?

12:34 / 31.10.05

Which is fair enough. I think the organ doner service will be happy for all the bits they get, I doubt they'd begrudge you your corneas.

I'd say donate whatever you feel comfortable donating. Every little helps. It's not like anyone died from not getting corneal transplants is it?

16:28 / 01.11.05

Huzzah Lilly for standing up for your own beliefs!

Personally for myself, I don't care enough about anyone (outside my close family) to give them anything other than my thoughts and opinions, least of all parts of me. I have no responsibility for any of them and feel no sense of duty or guilt about it whatsoever. I have no grand belief system concerning this, it's just my personal choice.

20:12 / 01.11.05

My best friend had Cystic Fibrosis, She passed away one year ago. The year previous to that she had a double lung transplant. Her quality of life just before the transplant wasn't so great, she was basically running out of time.
After the transplant we had the most incredible year. it was amazing, she was able to live her life again and we did so many things together.
She died due to some complications from having a compromised immune system, but i can't tell you how thankful i am to a woman in Chicago who dotated her organs. there's really no way to express what that meant to her, and to me, and her family friends.

I just want to take this moment to thank everyone of you that decided to donate, it really is an amazing gift and it impacts people's lives in ways that you can't even imagine.

20:50 / 01.11.05

I think the organ doner service will be happy for all the bits they get, I doubt they'd begrudge you your corneas.

Kebabs taste better without the crunchy bits anyway.

21:55 / 01.11.05

Personally for myself, I don't care enough about anyone (outside my close family) to give them anything other than my thoughts and opinions

Do you have to?

22:11 / 01.11.05

It's called donation because it's an unconditional gift, freely given. 'Tis a marvellous thing. If people don't want to do it that's entirely fine. That's the mainstream response to the issue. That's why they need more donors so much.

Not just because they need more organs but because, when you need an organ, finding one that will match as closely as possible to minimise immune response problems is so difficult. The more choice there is of organs, the more likely you are to find one that will do the job,. This is a particular problem if you have a mixed racial heritage. Finding an organ that will match can then be much harder.

If Qwik or someone ze loves needs a life-saving transplant one day, I'm sure hir thoughts, opinions, and bon mots will go down well at the funeral. But you can't judge someone by how useful their body parts are and how freely (they say) they're prepared to dispose of them once they have no further use for them. That makes no sense at all. It's such a small part of the calculation, compared to the work of the lifetime that went before.

23:05 / 01.11.05

No, but you can judge that lifetime by the opinions expressed during it.

If people don't want to do it that's entirely fine. That's the mainstream response to the issue. That's why they need more donors so much.

Which is more or less what I thought, but Roth seems to be saying that's not the case - at least, not in the part of the world he's currently situated in.

Are you honestly saying, Roth, that you believe donating is the norm and that *not* donating marks you out as a weirdo? Within your peer group, I could accept, but within society in general?

01:41 / 02.11.05

BBC article about presumed consent here.

The more I see of this, the more sense it makes to me. In Austria, presumed consent meant that the number of kidneys transplanted was nearly equal to the length of the waiting list. For those who feel so passionately about keeping their parts, they can get on the no-donate registry. For those who wish to donate, or those too apathetic to say one way or the other, consent is presumed.

Works for me.

Lilly Nowhere Late

05:49 / 02.11.05

Going on a "do not wish to donate" list seems very reasonable.
I seem to remember a siutation in California in the '90's or so where you could also specify who would be allowed donations of tissues or organs from your body. I think it was a tried idea which did not continue or perhaps still does- not sure. I do know that some private health insurance policies allow the bearer to designate specific people to receive the bearers organs, etc. Seems rather tedious and opportunistic that one would expect one's named receiver to need a part just as the bearer dies but I suppose it could happen. At any rate, shows that there are strong enough feelings about the issue to cause optimized choices.
I decidedly like the no donor list idea. One should make loved ones just as aware of what one doesn't want post life as what one does want as well.

07:13 / 02.11.05

Personally for myself, I don't care enough about anyone (outside my close family) to give them anything other than my thoughts and opinions, least of all parts of me. I have no responsibility for any of them and feel no sense of duty or guilt about it whatsoever. I have no grand belief system concerning this, it's just my personal choice.

Again, fair enough if that's your choice. As you say, you'd donate to your immediate family if they needed something.

I don't think, though, that you need to especially care about others to be a doner. Most likely you'll be dead when they harvest you anyway so what does it matter? Arguably I don't particularly care about the people who'd benefit from my organs.

Way I see it; if I ever require an organ transplant then, waiting list aside, I will be given it. The more doners there are, the better the chance of me getting my required organ and living a long and annoying life. So it's in my best interests to be a doner and to encourage others to do the same.

I like the idea of everyone automatically being a doner, and there being a non-doner list. People don't like to sign up for things like this, but if you're already signed up then you might be more likely to stay on the doner list.

No-one really needs to explain why they don't want to be a doner, but I do find it interesting. Perhaps something to do with a subconcious fear of having some "vital spark" taken from you?

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:19 / 02.11.05

Just signed up.

I honestly can't imagine what my life would be like if I didn't care about or share anything with anyone other than my (oxymoron time) "close family". Pretty miserable, I suspect.

Mon Oncle Ignatius

09:10 / 02.11.05

I think I may have signed up for this at least 18 years ago, but have no idea how I can check if I'm on the register still. I will investigate further, or maybe even just sign up again.

I too am in favour of an opt-out sysetm, which seems the most logical way of dealing with the issue. That way there are plenty of organs available for potential matches.

As for people who do not wish to donate their organs, that is entirely their choice, for whatever reason they might have. My opinion is that when you're re dead, that's it, no more, finito, and the body parts might as well be used to help someone else.

Though it now also occurs to me - how would we feel about an arm or a face being donated, for example? And what if it was someone you were close to donating their face to someone else you were likely to see on a regular basis? That would be very peculiar...

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

09:21 / 02.11.05

Could we all be clear that a "donor" is one who offers their, um, valuables to others post mortem, while a "doner" is a type of kebab...

Just in case some folks thought they were signing up to something else entirely. Just to be clear.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

09:23 / 02.11.05

Sorry, missed Ganesh, who pipped me to it.

09:36 / 02.11.05

how would we feel about an arm or a face being donated, for example?

No problem with arms being donated. Unless they have a distinguishing feature such as a tattoo there is little chance of them being identified by a relative. Of course there is always the risk of "Evil Hand" Syndrome if the limb in question came from the body of a recently deceased serial killer who swore he would return.

Face transplants are, I believe, currently in the extremely experimental stage. Faces have been re-attached to their owner though. I seem to recall hearing the grisly tale of a young girl in India who had her face pulled off by a threshing machine and then had it reattached successfully.

However, as facial features are also governed by bone structure, there isn't as great a chance as you'd think of the person being identified as the donor. Although I would imagine it is a possibility.

Again, I don't have a problem with the idea of my face being given to someone else after my death. I just pity the poor bastard who gets my monstrous features grafted to their head bone.

15:43 / 02.11.05

I honestly can't imagine what my life would be like if I didn't care about or share anything with anyone other than my (oxymoron time) "close family". Pretty miserable, I suspect.

Your life probably would be pretty miserable, seeing as you apparently base your self-worth in other people. When you value yourself based on yourself, your perspective changes and you can be happy and satisfied without having to rely on someone else patting you on the head saying, "good puppy!" And "close family" isn't an oxymoron - i have plenty of family (and most of the worthless people in my wife's family) who are not close and whom i would not give body parts to.

Way I see it; if I ever require an organ transplant then, waiting list aside, I will be given it. The more doners there are, the better the chance of me getting my required organ and living a long and annoying life. So it's in my best interests to be a doner and to encourage others to do the same.

How will you being an organ donor ensure (or make more likely) that you will get an organ when you need it?

I also support the opt out plan. I'll just have to make sure to opt out.

15:45 / 02.11.05

Sorry, that "good puppy" thing came out harsher than expected. But you get the idea.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:50 / 02.11.05

Yes. Yes, I certainly do. And it's best that we leave it that, isn't it?

15:57 / 02.11.05

Yes I suppose so in the interests of civility & whatnot. Besides, I think ive said everything I wanted to say.

08:34 / 03.11.05

You haven't said what you think about videogame censorship though. Most important issue facing the world today?

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