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Special K?

 
  

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Ganesh
21:31 / 19.10.05
Rereading the 'maladaptive' thread, I'm aware I started off with the extraneous 'k' then let it drift away.

"Magic" makes me think of Paul Daniels, and "magycke" makes me think of eyelinered twatbiscuits. Is there a 'correct' way to spell what it is y'all do?
 
 
sine
22:06 / 19.10.05
I'll admit to having followed Uncle Aleister's lead with "magick" - in needing a distinction from prestidigitation for those too thick to know that word. Any elaboration past that strikes me as needless wankery.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:15 / 19.10.05
hiw about "MAJIQUE"




sorry
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:20 / 19.10.05
In my personal writings I've always used the ordinary k-less spelling. I used to use the K spelling online, ostensibly for reasons of Googleability but really because I had got sick of smug gits correcting me (not here, I hasten to add). I gave that up earlier this year because I was frankly sick to death of it and felt that my practice had drifted so far from Ye High Ceremonial Magick that the K was just an affectation anyway.
 
 
Ganesh
22:21 / 19.10.05
"Majique" sounds like one of those short-lived 1980s novelty liqueurs aimed at the 'sophisticated' set.
 
 
Seth
22:48 / 19.10.05
Just magic. Anything else is lame.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:06 / 19.10.05
Actually, thinking about it, I don't really have one word for what it is I do. It's a vast and sprawling beastie, like one of those very large, very indolent cats; and like a cat its presence seems to creep into every aspect of my life. When I'm thinking about this stuff, I'm not thinking about it as magic or Magick or witchcraft or magicoreligious practices or alternative spirituality or blah blah blah. It's just stuff. I just do it. It's only when I need to tell other people what I've been up to or talk about things in the abstract that I have to reach for words like magic.
 
 
kowalski
23:24 / 19.10.05
The 'k' strikes me as incredibly pretentious. Anyone that can take a look at the OED (well, at least the two-volume one we've got here) will find prestidigital manipulation only appearing in the third and final definition of the term. If someone is doing something meaningful and personally successful that falls underneath the gamut of the term, they shouldn't need to enforce their legitimacy through a flakey etymological separation from illusionist and trickster hokum.

Of course, if they happen to be Greek they may feel beautiful and blessed to practice magike.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
04:27 / 20.10.05
I've wavered back and forth on the topic for years. I just happened to have a friend ask me the same thing over on my eljay and I'll tell you the same thing I told her:

Me? I used to be a proponent of “magic-with-a-K”, but as time has gone on and as I’ve become more of a proponent of removing the Occult from the Occult, I don’t see the need to have yet another divisive element in my magical practice. I still like the aesthetics of “magic-with-a-k” but in day-to-day use I’ve settled on Magic. I reserve the right to change my mind at whim.

I also like to use the term “science-with-a-k” when discussing ‘technomagic’, especially in the context of certain Role Playing Games, like Mage.
 
 
---
04:53 / 20.10.05
I alternate, I think. I just like the look of the word Magick though, nothing to do with what the added k is supposed to mean.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:39 / 20.10.05
Aleister Crowley came up with the spelling Magick in order to differentiate his system of "scientific illuminism" from stage conjure.

I use the spelling Magic to the blur the lines between what I do and stage conjure. I think they are closer to one another in nature than the prejudices of the Victorian era would have you believe. Stage magic is ostensibly about conjuring a sense of wonder and making people believe for an instant that the world is a stranger and more mysterious place than they thought it was. If someone performs a really brilliant magic trick in front of your eyes, it creates a moment of "free space" where, for a brief instant, you doubt your closely held assumptions about "the way the world works". I think there are more than a few parallels and overlaps there with certain aspects of occultism.

In the earliest Tarot decks, the Magus card was called the Juggler and showed a street conjuror working his sleight of hand. I think that perhaps there are mysteries embedded in that image that the attribution of the extra "k" distracts us from. Interestingly, most stage conjurers are a lot more rabid about enforcing the division between stage magic and occultism than occultists are. I think both parties are missing a trick, as it were. The smoke and mirrors thread is the place for this discussion though.

So I use the spelling Magic, unless I am specifically talking about Aleister Crowley's Magick - which is really quite a different prospect. Admittedly "Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in accordance with Will" is quite a broad and all encompasing definition, but I tend to use that spelling if I'm referring directly to Thelema. If I'm talking about things like discovering the True Will, obtaining knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, working the initiatory grades that relate to Sephiroth on the Tree of Life, crossing the Abyss, or any of the western practices such as the LBRP, Middle Pillar, hexagram rites, and especially the rituals of Crowley's devising such as Liber Resh, the Star Ruby, or anything pertaining to the Book of the Law - then I'm more than happy to adopt the extra "k". I see "Magick" as a specific system in itself, and the extra "k" helps to place it in some sort of historical context.

There's perhaps a cultural appropriation issue with the broad adoption of the term "Magick" to refer to all systems of magic throughout the world, as it could be seen as the linguistic equivalent of trying to shoehorn all other systems into the framework of Quabala. However, if you adopt the spelling "Magick" when you are specifically talking about Alester Crowley's work and ideas, it provides a bit of perspective for looking at those ideas within a broader global and historical context. Crowley's Magick was developed in the 20s and 30s, it's a product of the Modernist era, and I think its really best understood in that context and not in isolation from the other things that were going on in the world at that time, in terms of art, literature, music and world affairs. The spelling Magick is a handy way of being clear about what you are discussing - or at least it would be if millions of people didn't just use it for no reason other than because it, arguably, looks cool.
 
 
Unconditional Love
10:05 / 20.10.05
Majoke, the mother of all jokes.
 
 
razorsmile
14:54 / 20.10.05
I tend to use the term 'majik' when talking about my ritual practice and for a number of reasons. Firstly I never really liked crowley's stuff, just didn't gel, and so didn't want to use the 'k' spelling - which I think Gypsy is right to point out, enables some accurate or more accurate identification of the topic under conversation. Secondly I wouldn't really have a problem with 'magic' as a term, 'cept for the fact that it's already been disputed/disturbed by the 'k' thang and Thirdly cos I like idiosyncratic spellings in works, adds an element of deliberate distinctiveness, even if it is just for a pretentious reason. So I found myself using a J when we first did Razorsmile - not really for any conscious reason I can tell you, just to be a little awkward I expect - and then came up with an explanation later (when anyone asked), which is 'that I do majik for joy' (no, not Joy, don't know her at all, never met her...).

In the end it's all a bit of a joke I suppose and part of that thing whereby those who take it too seriously generally reveal that they've got a bit of a stick up their arse...after all, meanings really aren't that fixed and how hard is it to work out in a given context what someone's talking about?

Having said that it's a sort of trick to add in meaningless elements to something - spellings, allusions to non-existent characters, talk of secrets etc - that can entice a few wayward souls to assume there's something hidden and thereby trap them into an obsession (or even just into 'more interest than they would otherwise have'). Not a trick I would ever use of course...
 
 
toughest, fastest, fatest
15:06 / 20.10.05
hmm i vary magic with magick depending on my mood, but i try to avoid either, it's just excercising the will to achieve something in my view and i'd rather call it that due to the perjorative connotations the variations have.
 
 
*
18:00 / 20.10.05
I don't really care. Magick doesn't describe what I do any better than Magic, and no change of spelling is going to make that word actually adequate, but we still need a word. So sometimes I use a k and sometimes I don't, and sometimes I spell it in a ridiculously silly way to show I'm not taking myself too seriously.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
20:51 / 28.10.05
I am suddenly reminded of a scene from a videogame review show. The particular episode was a badly-done parody of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and for some reason included a reincarnated Crowley, but it had a nice exchange:

Morgan Webb: So why do you spell "magic" with a "K" at the end?

Crowley: To seperate my art from the cheap theatrics of impersonators.

MW: Why not spell it with just a "k"?

Crowley: [in a whiny voice] Because that's a character from X-men.
 
 
eye landed
09:19 / 29.10.05
crowley had a perfectly good numerological reason for adding a k, which i dont happen to recall in any detail. surely the other possible spellings have numerological implications as well?

somebody should analyze this if they care.
 
 
Quantum
17:57 / 31.10.05
Where's the old thread on this? I can't find it for the life of me, as I remember it was a page or two long and one of the old Gemetria-heads gave an extremely detailed breakdown of the numerology involved.
My vote? Magic, without the spooky K.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:33 / 31.10.05
Here ya go.
 
 
Digital Hermes
05:22 / 05.07.06
Couldn't help but give this a theadbump:

Alan Moore on the subject:

"Certainly, most people in the occult fraternity seem to wish to distance themselves from stage magic, as in the Crowleyan conceit of spelling his type of magic with a K to distinguish it from all the doves and coloured scarves (as if all the semen-drinking, goat-fucking and mescaline didn't make it reasonably distinct already)."

One of the best piss-takings I've heard in response to the whole K business. Sigil-wanking or LBRP rituals being divergent from card tricks, as an example...
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:48 / 05.07.06
On a language note, in Portuguese this is a non-issue, since we have two different words for stage magic ("mágica") and "actual" magick ("magia"). How does that work in languages other than English, anyone?
 
 
foolish fat finger
22:38 / 05.07.06
I am not into majik, but if I was, I'd definitely want to spell it different to how Paul Daniels does...
 
 
Glandmaster
23:19 / 05.07.06
Heh there was a thread on this at the MLA. RAW said the 'k' was there as a nod to Eris's apple - this munky thought that was cute and maybe...
 
 
ghadis
23:25 / 05.07.06
Well, like much of what RAW says, i'd say that was bollocks.
 
 
ghadis
23:31 / 05.07.06
In a subjective way of course. Subjective bollocks. In a Paradigm Pie. Full of bollocks.
 
 
ghadis
23:34 / 05.07.06
Don't diss Wizbit by the way. He has followers.
 
 
johnny enigma
08:07 / 06.07.06
How about using the spelling "magikkk" to refer to workings done by racists?


Sorry about that, I just couldn't resist.
 
 
Glandmaster
20:47 / 06.07.06
Oh bless ghadis - did I touch a RAW nerve?

You could take RAWs scribblings at face value and maybe still have a fun ride. Or you could emulate the thinking behind it and experience similar epiphanies. Your choice I guess.

For me RAWs statement pointed to the utter lack of importance in the spelling, the relevance in a live language like English for the current users to adjust it to their needs (why not demarcate the difference between sleight of hand and mind?) and, above all, the need to have a little fun here and there...
 
 
ghadis
06:40 / 07.07.06
Heh, was in a slightly confrontational mood that night. Quite like a bit of RAW now and again actually, expecially the bollocks bits.
 
 
Kerry Thornley
22:06 / 07.07.06
After reading an article from chaosmagic.com, I've chosen to spell it Majutsu. Ok, I don't use it on my daily life, but it would be fun if I did. It's japanese and comes from it's own proper radical (ma - maya / jutsu - craft), but it reminds me from "magic" anyway.
 
 
Mister Saturn
23:15 / 07.07.06

Due to my sister's influence (a student of the Arabic language), and my habit of having more fun researching for the Great Australian Novel rather than writing it, I occasionally spit out "jâduyi" - persian for magick.

And I often say "magick with a K" just to annoy my dear skeptical friends.

"magic-KKKKKKKKK, cher, it's MAGIC-KKKKKKK!"
 
 
SteppersFan
10:35 / 10.07.06
I like it without the K.

Now, pronounciation - IIRC Crowley suggested it be pronounced "MAGE-ick".

That's really tossy,isn't it?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:46 / 10.07.06
Yeah, that is pretty irredeemably wanky. I think you'd want to hurt someone who talked like that.
 
 
Ticker
12:55 / 10.07.06
Besides if I heard someone say "Using Mage-ick" I'd think they were in need of a wet-nap for clean up.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:00 / 10.07.06
In need of a wet-nap. OF PAIN.
 
  

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