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Al Qaida is less interested in violence than ethics...

 
 
sdv (non-human)
15:58 / 17.10.05
In the Guardian today Faisal Devji was interviewed - can anyone confirm the rationale underlying his statements which suggest that Al Qaida is more interested in ethics than violence...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:03 / 17.10.05
Could you link to the article or quote the bit you're wondering about, sdv?
 
 
grant
20:16 / 17.10.05
Also, how is he constituting "Al Qaeda"? Most analyses I've read (the ones I like, anyway) say that it's a movementless movement, a shared ideology that only becomes a movement when a group of operatives *do* something. Since that something seems to involve blowing things up most of the time, I'm wondering about this person's counterargument.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:05 / 17.10.05
Article here.
 
 
sdv (non-human)
10:50 / 18.10.05
In the article I was wondering about (and briefly): Faisal claims that Al-Quida is fundamentally driven by ethical concerns and not the political/colonial/imperial concerns. It is suggested in the article that as a consequence Al-Quida 'could' make a dramatic shift fom engaging in terroristic acts of antiglobalising violence in support of 'Islam' towards ethical political actions, using for example Ghandi's non-violent tactics/strategy.

This idea that Al-Quida is driven by an ethic is very interesting, but I don't know of any evidence that supports the claim. For example it's not supported by the piece on opendemocracy text by Faisal Devji

The key claim made here is that Al-Quida is "Like environmentalism, pacifism and other global movements, al-Qaida’s jihad is concerned with the world as a whole. In the same way that climatic warming or nuclear holocaust are not problems that can be dealt with regionally, the jihad’s task of gaining justice for Muslims has meaning only at a global level. This is why the whole world must be brought within al-Qaida’s purview. Al-Qaida’s violence links all the world’s people together in a web of mutual obligation and responsibility, allowing American or British civilians, for example, to be killed in recompense for the killing of Muslims in Iraq....."

This is not make the claim that Al-Qaida is primarily a moral and ethical movement and then secondly a tactically violent one. Here what is being claimed is that all social and political movements, no matter how 'reactionary' are operating at the same moral and ethical level. This it seems to me is an extraordinary claim and I'm interested in seeing whether anyone has made this connection ? or seen the argument made elsewhere ?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:43 / 18.10.05
The problem with Al-Qaida is that it's new. It uses political tactics (suicide bombing) for a global purpose. Its aims are unclear precisely because it isn't regional and on global issues like this, that concern the actions of people a consensus is never reached by governments, even when the solution is obvious. So primarily I would agree with points that the article brings up There is no 'end', as such and the rhetoric is all about policy - but when you look at that rhetoric more carefully you realise that any political or strategic aims dissolve. This has always been my problem with the entire notion of Al-Qaida, I don't understand what it wants, the idea that it's a group dealing with the ethical primarily makes much more sense to me.

Now the question... what is being claimed is that all social and political movements, no matter how 'reactionary' are operating at the same moral and ethical level. To a degree I think that you're misinterpreting, not what is being said but meant. The Guardian article always focuses on the global, that's the crux of the article and the reason is that the purpose is so clouded when talking about purely global issues. The article isn't comparing Al-Qaida to any other Muslim groups or the ANC or anything that's intensely political in that way. It's saying look at Al-Qaida, it's like Friends of the Earth. Clouded in purpose, a weird power structure, so global that it's always going to have trouble acheiving a purpose, occasionally prone to violent action but perhaps that action is so divorced from it's meaning that it won't work. The article is about the ethics of intent and not the intention to explode things but the pure intention of acheiving aims and that's an important distinction to make.
 
 
sdv (non-human)
13:45 / 18.10.05
Nina,

What about the statements in the opendemocracy text, isn't that implying that there is an eqivilance in moral/ethical status between elements of the 'movement of movements' 'FOE' and Al-Quida ?
 
 
grant
15:09 / 18.10.05
Yeah, I kind of wish our man had made Al Qaeda equivalent to ELF (Earth Liberation Front), which is a similar sort of nebulous "organization" of environmentalist radicals, rather than environmentalism itself.
 
 
sdv (non-human)
13:28 / 19.10.05
If this this is correct..." The article is about the ethics of intent and not the intention to explode things but the pure intention of acheiving aims and that's an important distinction to make."... and i'm inclined to think it is. Then it appears that Faisal is constructing his understanding of ethics and morals in opposition to one of the basic concepts of Ethics - Spinoza puts it like this "The knowledge of an effect depends upon the knowledge of the cause..." Cause(ethics) and effect(terror) cannot be as easily divorced as Faisal appears to intend.

I can't think of how Faisal might rationally seperate effect and cause in this way - given that at least within Western ethics (assuming he has a non-western understanding of ethics) - the effect, the event is to be judged as ethical or not - rather than the intent/cause. I suppose that's my problem with this - in these terms any proposition can be considered as ethical because the event is ignored.

Perhaps it's because words really do have the same value as events for Faisal, bizarre actually, because I would have thought that the distinction between "a fascist speaking of hating islam" and "acts of murdering muslims" would be one that he would want to maintain.

And then - (Grant) I'm rather pleased that he allows for no difference between any entities (as long as they are western) because it removes any possibility of discussing the ethics in terms of value.
 
 
quixote
01:51 / 22.10.05
social and political movements, no matter how 'reactionary' are operating at the same moral and ethical level

That does, indeed, seem to be what Devji is saying. In other words, so long as you believe in a cause larger than yourself, your cause is "ethical."

Balderdash.

By that standard, Nazism is an "ethical" cause. What utter bilge. And this man is a university professor? Unbelievable.
 
 
sdv (non-human)
15:24 / 22.10.05
It makes me wonder, whether the concept of 'ethics' in the Islamic world is even more different than I'd previously thought.

Though it's obvious that any ethics that remains built on relgious/theological monotheistic structures is always going to be unacceptable - but even bearing this in mind F's offerings seem particularly and violently mistaken.

I was rather hoping someone with a deep knowledge of islamic ethics could clarify it for me.... ah well back to the library...
 
  
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