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I quoted the following extract in the “darkest place” thread:
Fred Fowler: The Problem of Evil
Definitely getting tired of hearing and reading the satanic, evil, and darkside connections which are simply not there in my experience. The relationships are hard to grasp, and even more difficult to explain ...
More serious is the developing view of the darkside as a repository or inventory (a kind of warehouse?) of all the bad shit of our humankind species: the darkside as resident by human impulses and actions to rape, murder, and whatever else we 20th century people think is nasty stuff to do or even to think about. Perhaps it's Christianity (?) mixed up with some pop psychology and magical thinking (no "k")?
For the record: for L and me there is not a thing satanic or evil in the darkside. Such constructs simply have no meaning in this realm. They are strictly dayside, strictly human, and for me strictly bullshit. Oh yes, the USA produced over 20,000 murders last year, countless rapes, and even more countless acts of senseless and sick brutality. How many were killed, and continue to die, in Iraq, S. Africa, Liberia, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc., etc.? I could tell you how many children were abused, that 20% plus of children in this country live in poverty, but I think my point is clear. All of this horror exists in this dayside, human world. In my view, the recognition of all this is so threatening to personality integrity that few are even willing to see it, open their eyes and hearts and minds to their own stink and meanness as a race/species of the dayside world.
What I found particularly interesting about this is that Fowler is positing the qlipoth, as written about by Kenneth Grant, as something other, than simply our destructive, anti-social, nasty side. Something atavistic yes, but more akin to survival urges than sadism. (To judge from what I’ve read about serial killers and the like I think that these kind of sadistic impulses are simply the cyclical product of severe abuse and trauma). Nema makes the same point in her book Maat Magick.
To quote Gypsy Lantern from the same thread:
On this subject, I was looking through Nema's quite odd but at times quite brilliant book "Maat Magick" last night, and there's a lot in that about invoking what she calls the "Forgotten Ones". I think a lot of that material went into the concept of the Archons as represented in the Invisibles. It involves exploring and incorporating the kind of dark material that this thread purportedly deals with. Nema reckons you shouldnt jump into them waters until you've attained knowledge and conversation of yer HGA, as otherwise you're not up to the task. You need to be strong and established in Malkuth, Yesod, Hod, Netzach and Tiphareth - before you should tackle integrating the Forgotten Ones. Considering that Nema, and by extension Kenny G, are pretty much the primary sources for all of the stuff that Grant Morrison has represented in the Filth and in the Invisibles … - it is advice that's perhaps worth paying some attention to.
I can’t remember here exact schema for the Forgotten One’s but if IRC it begins with food, the primal desire to feed ourselves when it’s a matter of life and death and our survival hinges on it. What she seems to be suggesting to me are that these things are in us, as part of our organism or as part of some kind of transpersonal species memory (shades of Jung?), and as such have great power bound up within them.
To follow the HGA comment by GL, I’m aware that in traditional Jewish qabalah one is meant to go down into the abyss on attainment, to share the light you have become with it’s denizens. I can’t remember what exactly this process is called but it’s mentioned in Gersholm Scholem’s work. Will look up reference and post.
So the purpose of this thread is then, is just to put out this idea - that the qlipoth as discussed in the works of Grant, Fallario and others isn’t just taboo sex n’ sadism. The writers mentioned seem to me to be almost “reclaiming” the qlipoth, as a source of power rather than just the “world of shells”. Anyone who’s seen Linda Falario’s Shadow Tarot will appreciate what a creative work this is, far more than wallowing in our angry and anti-social murk. Some obvious parallels come up – Spare’s atavistic resurgence (not that he wrote much about it, most of what we have is Grant’s “versioning”), Phil Hine’s work on Cthulhu, GM’s Filth (maybe). Mishlen Linden spring to mind as well as someone who has provided a practical guide to working with the Shadow tarot stuff.
Another purpose of this thread some this might be for a bit of discussion and sharing of experience, the latter being supremely important in my view as I’m sure that it’s ONLY with some practical experience that any of this will make sense. I’m sadly lacking in the latter but have brushed up against some very powerful imagery in my dreams – dreams of the ocean in all it’s power, waves smashing on the shore, and occasionally, feelings of complete terror directed towards what may be under the surface of the water. Has anyone else had parallel experiences - or worked with the qlipoth or other expressions of these energies in a practical way?
One final point – does anyone know much Crowley’s Liber 231? It’s the work Kenny G based Nightside of Eden on, and is very cryptic to say the least. I don’t even recognise the names of most of the Gods in there let alone grokking the qabalah. Any notes from passing Thelemites would be useful.
NOTE: Can we please keep this thread reasonably sensible and experiential based (I’m looking at you, Wolfangel). As it’s a reasonable taboo subject can we please try and keep it a bit sensible, rather than ribbeting on about THE DARQ. A minimum of wanky formulations and theorising, please (though a little bit is nice). If you can, post about what you’ve done or experienced. |
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, devoid of direct awareness of God's presence.