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King Mob & The Scorpion Loa

 
  

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All Acting Regiment
00:09 / 22.09.05
I know you're probably bored of this by now, but...King Mob's scorpion tattoo and the scorpion loa/lwa- I'm interested to know what this is based on, where Gary Munroe got the ideas from. Any links out there?
 
 
--
03:19 / 22.09.05
It represents Baron Zaraguin, the king scorpian loa, god of assassins. Grant contacted the scorpians by accident, then later on read the Voudon Gnostic Workbook and found out they were from the family of loa known as the "Zaraguin Family". According to the Workbook, Zaraguin is head (or "Father Loa") of the family, is a "Norman Baron", his colors are red and black, and his zodiacal sign is Leo. Also according to the VGW he is the Mater of the brotherhood of were-tarantula sorcerors known as les-zobop-tarantulas, and a "master of magical lattices and geometries". Bertiaux also claims that Zaraguin is a "two-fold generation". There's nothing in the workbook about Zaraguin as God of Assassins, but I guess that's how he appeared to GM. Oh yeah, his chakra of power is at the base of the spine, hence the tattoo there.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:31 / 22.09.05
While - giving it the benefit of the doubt - this material may derive from some obscure Haitian line of transmission that Bertiaux has, it doesnt really play much of a role in Haitian Vodou per se. Much of the VGW is mad as fuck and is more the authors personal system of occultism than anything to do with African diaspora magico-religious tradition. For instance, the Lwa tend not to have astrological symbols and chakras appended to them! There is also crazy stuff in the VGW such as an ancient Atlantean system of sorcery that seems to basically amount to cottaging in gents toilets.

It's not an entirely constructive development that the popularity of the Invisibles and the VGW concept of the Scorpion Lwa has since conjured the idea in the heads of a million hapless chaos magicians that Vodou is all about dark, scary insect Gods. At the Zora Neale Hurston talk the other night, some geezer was "explaining", in the questions and answers section, how the Lwa fit into western magic as the inhabitants of the Nightside of the Tree of Life. I really had to bite my tongue as it wasn't my talk and I wasnt supposed to be answering the questions - but for fucks sake! The Lwa partake of the full spectrum of life and consciousness, they are not the "shadow side" of western esotericism.

Having said that, I have come across references to Insect Lwa, from sources unrelated to Bertiaux, in connection with the Ghede family. So within the sci-fi versioning of Bertiaux and Morrison, I do think that there is a thread of Haitian tradition that could perhaps be followed academically. I have no doubt that they exist - and you could make contact with a family of Lwa that represent the anamistic consciousness of insect life. However, I'm not sure exactly why you would do so. It's alien stuff and I shouldn't imagine they respond too well to tourists. So unless you actually are some form of international superspy assassin and have a specific need for non-human insect shaman powers - which you are fully prepared to pay dearly for - then I wouldnt really recommend knocking on the insect door.
 
 
Quantum
09:23 / 22.09.05
It's possible Gypsy is bluffing all that, and IS an international superassassin, blowing smokescreens to cover his deadly stings- he could be possessed, I've seen him preparing to eat a scorpion, maybe the scorpion got into him and Gypsy is Zaraguin now, be afraid...
 
 
Quantum
09:30 / 22.09.05
Oh, hang on... it wasn't a trapped assassin lwa it was a novelty lollipop...

'The scorpion may even glow under ultra violet lights'

Gypsy, take it clubbing!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:31 / 22.09.05
some geezer was "explaining"... how the Lwa fit into western magic as the inhabitants of the Nightside of the Tree of Life.

Please tell me you made that up.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:55 / 22.09.05
Oh, cock. Did I miss the ZNH lecture? Are there notes?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:57 / 22.09.05
Mordant: Dude, it's their natural black energy. I quote.
 
 
--
15:36 / 22.09.05
Ha, yes, I'm aware that much of the VGW has little to do with traditional Voodoo (or even traditional gnosism, for that matter)! I was just answering the question in regards to Bertiaux's thoughts on the Baron, a source which Morrison drew quite a bit from for the voodoo aspect of "The Invisibles" (the whole Good UFO/Bad UFO thing in the first Jim Crow issue was taken from the VGW, for example).

Interesting that the Baron would present him to Morrison in that manner... Perhaps he has a good knack for publicity and realized that the more darker and sinister he presented himself to be, the more attention would go his way, as many magicians seem to have an attraction towards the "dark path" (chaos magicians in particular).
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
15:39 / 22.09.05
No
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
16:00 / 22.09.05
It seems very unlikely to me that the Scorpion Lwa, if such a family exists, decided to present themselves as exceptionally "dark" and "scary" in order to market themselves more successfully to about 200 goth would-be magicians through the medium of Grant Morrison's Invisibles comic. I should imagine that the Scorpion Lwa, if such a family exists, ARE pretty fucking alien and nasty and incomprehensible in their thought processes to human beings.

The point I was making above is that lots of people read the Invisibles and gain the impression that the dark and scary Scorpion Gods characterise the nature of Vodou. This is a mistake. But that doesn't mean that the Scorpion Lwa (if they do exist as Lwa) would not BE dark and scary - and neither does it imply that actual Vodou does not contain a great many dark and scary aspects to it. Are you following?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:33 / 22.09.05
But it's GOT to be dark! Darker than the darkest dark thing in a very dark place! That's where True Power is, you see? DARK!
 
 
--
16:39 / 22.09.05
I meant dark and sinister in the aspect that they're assassin gods, sorry, forgot to make that distinction. Certainly there are quite possibly sinister aspects, but is assassination included in that equation?
 
 
LykeX
18:52 / 22.09.05
At the Zora Neale Hurston talk the other night, some geezer was "explaining", in the questions and answers section, how the Lwa fit into western magic as the inhabitants of the Nightside of the Tree of Life.

This seems to be a pretty standard religious technique. Foreign gods are always presented as demons or some such. 'Their' gods are evil, 'our' gods are good.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:01 / 22.09.05
Wasn't it thoughtful of the African diaspora to carefully study their Q(k)ab(b)ala(h) and lovingly craft us proper Magickians a nice neat fit for our Darquesyde practices? And they have such great rhythm, too.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
22:33 / 22.09.05
What's gnosism? Is that what David the Gnome lets fly at the ceiling when Mrs. the Gnome gives him a happy finish?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:45 / 22.09.05
Yes, like that, only darque.
 
 
--
00:02 / 23.09.05
I probably should have said "gnosis" there, but I thought that "gnosism" was a word. My bad.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
00:10 / 23.09.05
Thanks for the info, folks.

Scorpions look after their young for the equivalent of two years of growth, carrying them on their backs. Also, perhaps the poison can be used to get psychotropic side effects? I wonder.
 
 
grant
13:11 / 23.09.05
Having said that, I have come across references to Insect Lwa, from sources unrelated to Bertiaux, in connection with the Ghede family.

Eh?

Could you elaborate on this a little?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:19 / 23.09.05
Elaborate on it in what way?
 
 
illmatic
13:24 / 23.09.05
What and where, I guess. I'd be interested for one.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:40 / 23.09.05
Not on here. I'll PM.
 
 
rosie x
14:05 / 23.09.05
At the Zora Neale Hurston talk the other night, some geezer was "explaining", in the questions and answers section, how the Lwa fit into western magic as the inhabitants of the Nightside of the Tree of Life. I really had to bite my tongue as it wasn't my talk and I wasnt supposed to be answering the questions - but for fucks sake!

I should have said something...it was my talk...oops.

I was just so dumbfounded by the inane comment that I couldn't do much except stare the poor chap down in incredulous disbelief...

As for notes...hmmm. I didn't have time to type out the excerpts that we read from some of Hurston's work. I did write a little essay, but it's not really fit for posting or publication, as I wrote it hastily, and did not have time to properly credit my various sources.
 
 
Logos
22:35 / 23.09.05
Since we're talking about related areas, does anyone know anything more about the Time Stations Web stuff? (e.g. who the totems of the various directions are, where the other strands supposedly lead, etc.)
 
 
--
00:44 / 24.09.05
Well, as Bertiaux defines it (there are probably other formats, but his is the only one I'm familiar with: I'm not into voodoo):

In Bertiaux's system there are 8 strands: North, North-east, East, South-east, South, South-west, West, and North-west. Each strand leads to a different time period and is overseen by a guardian loa/ family of loa.

North: Pure Past/ Les Houdeux.

North-East: Past of other universes/ Ultimate doorway beyond Pluto/Kether. Mystere Toile d'Araignee. Baron Zaraguin.

East: Pure future/other universes beyond the Sun. Mystere Royal, angels of death.

South-East: future with some reference to the Earth.

South: future which has just left the present, Earth's own future. Ti-Pied-Mille-Fois/ Kliphoptic king of the larvae of the dead.

South-west: the future of the Earth as the present moves away from us. Ti-Zaraguin.

West: Present that has just passed: the here and now. Black Goddess of Space Malakihi.

North-West: The past of the Earth and other worlds. Mystere Araignee.

Basically it's past (N & NE), past/present (W & SW) present/future (S & SW) and future (E & SE). For some reason Bertiaux doesn't name the lwa who presides over the South-east strand.
 
 
--
00:49 / 24.09.05
Come to think of it, past could be N & NW also. Those are the strands King Mob uses in "The Invisibles" to travel back to the 1920's. He says both the west and North-west strands are presided over by Mahakali, but the VGW says that Mahakali only presides over the western strand. But this is just fanboy nitpicking.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
01:56 / 24.09.05
Maybe we preside over the future SE strand?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
02:02 / 24.09.05
And Quantum, could you perhaps take that picture down?

I'm sorry for sounding like the kind of pretentious idiot we all wish wouldn't come here, but please, get rid of that picture. There are- oh dear, listen to me- reasons. At least make it the first picture you delete from your hosting account when it fills up. Please.
 
 
Quantum
09:00 / 24.09.05
If you tell me what those reasons are, then for sure. PM me if you like.
 
 
daynah
12:46 / 24.09.05
If you don't take down the picture, it could cost you...



...your hosting space.

Isn't the scorpion an incredibly phallic animal? And it's related to scorpio, the most sexual of the zodiacs.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:56 / 24.09.05
Off topic ever so slightly, but still none the less related and intresting is this egyptian deity

Serqet
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:04 / 24.09.05
I want to try some of the scorpion-venom infused vodka from that site.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:23 / 25.09.05
I'm sorry for sounding like the kind of pretentious idiot we all wish wouldn't come here, but please, get rid of that picture. There are- oh dear, listen to me- reasons. At least make it the first picture you delete from your hosting account when it fills up. Please.

It's a picture of a novelty lollipop. I hardly think there are going to be consequences with the insect Gods for posting a link to it. Speaking of things that could conceivably cost you though, it's quite an interesting name you've chosen to frivolously adopt for yourself and post under...
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:36 / 25.09.05
legba rex wrote:

"Also, perhaps the poison can be used to get psychotropic side effects? I wonder."


friend of mine, who's stories I tend to believe because he repeats them so many times to whoever'll listen (and the details tend to stay the same), smoked scorpion tails while he was in India.

apparently, it has similar effects to psychoactive mushrooms.

but you'll have to take his word for it...

As for the whole Scorpion-darkness-underworld thing, maybe GM was combining the Loa with aspects of Scorpio. The Day of the Dead occurs in Scorpio, ruled by Pluto.

ta
tenix
 
  

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