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Ohhh, burn - criticism of musicians in songs by other musicians

 
  

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Mourne Kransky
21:14 / 27.09.05
Burn the heretic! Or at least, bury his flip flops. He's obviously feeling grumpy today anyway.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:46 / 27.09.05
I'm not saying the man wasn't a genius: but "craft" entered very little into the equation, especially in his solo work.

To put it another way, there are craftsmen and there are artists. John was an artist. In a lot of ways the guy was an intuitive, a primitive. Hence the attraction to primal scream—the attempt to do away with "songwriting" as such, and tap directly into the subconscious pain for which his music was always a vehicle.

Contrast this with McCartney, the consummate craftsman, even when lacking in artistry. His solo work, while often glib and irritating, was always and is still immaculately crafted, while even John's best records sound terrible: He could never keep a decent band together, and the songs, terrific as they are, are sonically dashed-off.

John's rough diamonds vs. Paul's polished turds. Verdict: Lennon a greater genius than McCartney, yeah—but an undisciplined genius, and discipline is the very essence of craft.

The statement stands.
 
 
Mistoffelees
06:57 / 28.09.05
John's rough diamonds vs. Paul's polished turds. Verdict: Lennon a greater genius than McCartney, yeah—but an undisciplined genius, and discipline is the very essence of craft.

The statement stands.



I agree. We just have to look at their solo songs to see it´s true:

McC had Mull of whatever, Band On The Run, Live And Let Die and Ebony And Ivory as his greatest solo hits.

Lennon had Imagine, Instant Karma, Working Class Hero and God (my favourite Lennon song).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:26 / 28.09.05
One word, Jacky:

JET!

McCartney genius and consumate craftsman, Lennon bespectacled loooo-ser. Win McCartney.

Two words, Mistoffelees: Frog. Chorus.

Now, where were we? Oh yes, we were about to start a "former Beatle smackdown" thread and leave this one for discussions of musicians bringing the hate through their music.
 
 
Jack Fear
09:35 / 28.09.05
Quasi-mystical, nuthin'. Just listen to the records.

Okay, I'm done.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:49 / 28.09.05
I did indeed realise that this label did direspect to your musical examination and have moved to change it. I shall disrespect, instead, through song.

It strikes me that a surprising number of the examples given so far have related to anarcho-punk. I now have a picture of anarcho-punk being very much like the Communist movement at the turn of the last century, with various factions splitting off and accusing each other of heretical beliefs.
 
 
haus of fraser
09:53 / 28.09.05
on the Lennon, McCartney, Harrison thing I can't believe nobodys mentioned the Sue Me Sue You Blues by George Harrison- particularly a dig at Paul McCartney splitting the Beatles & apple Corp over his lack of faith in Alan Klein as I recall- anyway here's the lyrics-


You serve me
And I'll serve you
Swing your partners, all get screwed
Bring your lawyer
And I'll bring mine
Get together, and we could have
a bad time

It's affidavit swearing time
Sign it on the dotted line
Hold your Bible in your hand
Now all that's left is to
Find yourself a new band . . .

We're gonna play the sue me, sue
you blues
We're gonna play the sue me, sue
you blues

Hold the block on money flow
Move it into joint escrow
Court receiver, laughs, and thrills
But in the end we just pay those
lawyers theit bills

When you serve me
And I serve you
Swing your partners, all get screwed
Bring your lawyer
And I'll bring mine
Get together, and we could have
a bad time

We're gonna play the sue me, sue
you blues

I'm tired of playing the
Sue Me, Sue You Blues
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:12 / 28.09.05
I now have a picture of anarcho-punk being very much like the Communist movement at the turn of the last century, with various factions splitting off and accusing each other of heretical beliefs.

I think that about covers it!
 
 
Mourne Kransky
15:17 / 28.09.05
Pax, Jack. You argue a fair case. I was using the superior craftsman as a nod to the title of Il Miglior Fabbro that Eliot uses to honour Ezra Pound in his dedication of The Waste Land but I shall threadrot no further

Interesting, Copey, that George Harrison played a mean slide guitar for Lennon on How Do You Sleep? too. So much bad & bitter karma being generated there, George.
 
 
haus of fraser
17:01 / 28.09.05
Yup George Harrison certainly seems to have been the bitterest and most bratty Beatle- as you say not good Karma. Although he was the baby and only 27 when they broke up....
(doesn't that make you feel like you've done nothing with your life!)

Where does 'when we was fab' fit in the equation? He didn't like britpop either..


Oh yeah where does the Reynolds Girls 'i'd Rather jack' fit into this thread? (sorry can't find the lyrics- but you all remember them...
i'd rather jack, than fleetwood mac,
no golden oldies Rolling stones we don't want them back,
i'd rather jack, than fleetwood mac... etc)

Pete Watermans one punk moment attacking teh dinosaurs....
 
 
m
17:07 / 28.09.05
There's an episode of Town Hall Party where Johnny Cash stops his set, combs his hair down into big side burns, starts talking in mumbly Elvis-speak, and then begins to stagger around in a jerky dance while playing a goofy version of Blue Suede Shoes. He ends the gag by forgetting the words to the song, and belching into the microphone.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:16 / 28.09.05
Aaaah, who can forget the real Britpop fued, not Blur versus Oasis, but the Blur/Suede/Elastica triangle.

First up Suede's Animal Lover, about Damon stealing Brett's bird...

I see you're moving, see you're moving, moving in with her
You'll pierce your right ear, pierce your heart there
This skinny boy is one of the girls
cos around my neck and around her neck hangs everything you are
I know you've been inside but what were you in for?

Animal lover, animal lover, animal lover?


Then Elastica retort that Brett was shit in bed in Never Here,

We were sitting in, waiting
And I told you my plan
You were far too busy writing
Rhymes that didn't scan
And you lent me your records
And I lent you an ear
Funny how it seems to me now
That you were never here


Then Brett bemoans about losing Justina to the scag in Tender,

Tender is the ghost
The ghost I love the most
Hiding from the sun
Waiting for the night to come
Tender is my heart
For screwing up my life
Lord I need to find
Someone who can heal my mind
.

Happy days eh?
 
 
Ganesh
21:47 / 28.09.05
Isn't Tender Damon rather than Brett?
 
 
grant
22:45 / 28.09.05
In the documentary Dig, viewers are actually treated to a songfeud in progress between the Dandy Warhols and the Brian Jonestown Massacre.

I can't remember specific lyrics, but the scene where the Brian Jonestown dudes play the Dandy Warhols their "you sold out" song in, like, the Dandy Warhols' own van is pretty memorable.
 
 
TeN
00:12 / 29.09.05
haha, i had no idea about the story behind "The KKK Took My Baby Away"! that is really hillarious/awesome
 
 
Quantum
09:05 / 29.09.05
"Isn't Tender Damon rather than Brett?"

I misread that "Isn't Damon tender from Brett?" and hilarity ensued! Bizarre Britpop love triangle indeed.

But yes, Damon is Tender not Brett, mistype I think.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:45 / 29.09.05
Tiredness and snot there I think. The weird thing is I think I typed Damon originally and then on preview corrected some mistakes and typography and whatnot and changed that, doh! < cough cough >
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:30 / 05.10.05
Has anyone mentioned Eamon and Frankee’s feuding singles (‘I don’t want you back’ and ‘F.U.R.B’) from last year ?

No?

Good.
 
 
panthergod
21:01 / 09.10.05
I got this from another site but:




"Here Is The REAL STORY why Jay and Nas have Beef So Stop Asking People
first let me say i didnt not write this i just copy and pasted it but some shiit that is in this article i never knew about.


Here Is The REAL STORY why Jay and Nas have Beef So Stop Asking People
When Reasonable Doubt (The All Time Classic) was being worked on Jay had originally made a blueprint of the album to have himself, Big and Nas on a song. The Song was to be called New York's Finest. He has already had the beat from Clark Kent. The beat had a guy in the background shouting all the boroughs from New York. Jay played the track for Big and Big loved it. So he went to Nas and played the track and asked Nas to get on it because he was a big fan of his and felt him Nas and Big was the best rappers at the time. Nas refused to get on the track. Jay took that as a slap in the face. The reason why Nas refused to get on the track was because he had some type of jealousy thing towards Big being crowned the King Of New York. So he came at Big on the purple mixtape with that King of New York line which said. i'll Snatch the crown/of the so called king and lock it down. So after Jay got mad about Nas not wanting to be on the track He asked Clark Kent to change the song so it called out Brownsville Bedstuy and brooklyn areas and they would rename the song Brooklyn's Finest. So Jay wanted to get back at Nas Jay had found out that Nas owned none of his publishing rights (because his contract for the classic Illmatic he was getting ****ed by his label) for Illmatic. So Jay had his classic song Dead Presidents sample one of his favortie lines from Illmatic which was "im out for presidents to represent me get money." When it was time to do the video for Dead Presidents Jay had asked Nas to come to the video shoot to appear in the classic moment when Jay, Big and AZ were playing monopoly with real cash Nas had told him yeah. But when Nas had found out that he wasn't getting no money for the sample Jay used because he owned no publishing towards Illmatic he got pissed off and stood Jay up at the video shoot .

When Reasonable Doubt dropped Nas had made it clear to everyone he was mad at Jay for sampling his voice for Dead Presidents. So finally Nas had his 1st single for his second album drop which was if i rule the world featuring Lauryn Hill. Nas had promoted the single buy making it only 99 cents in famous New York mom and pop stores. When it was time to do the Firm album Nas had hooked up wit Dre to form the supergroup. Dre told Nas it was up to him who he wanted in the group. So Nas started recruiting who he wanted. When he asked Foxy Brown she said yes but she also wanted Nas to consider Jay-Z in the group because he wanted to be apart of the Firm. Nas plainly said NO. So when it was time for Jay to do Volume 1 he asked Nas again to do a song. Nas said No again. So Jay took subliminal cheap shots at Nas especiall on Imaginary Player when he said "Your single was 99 cents mine was 4 bucks" getting on Nas for his cheap If I Rule The World single. Also he went back to Searchlite publishing and got Nas's voice sampled for Rap Game/ Crack Game. Also all throughout Volume 1 Jay claimed to be the New King of New York. So when it was time for Nas to make the I AM album he had enough of Jigga and his cheap shots and called Jay out on we will survive with the "These cats claiming to be New York's King it aint about that." After that the beef calmed down until Bleek's debut album came out and Nas got offended off the Verse What You Think Of That when Jay said " You guys act like I don't Wear The Crown or Sumthin." So Nas responded on his lead Single Nastradamus "you want to ball to you fall i can help you with that" resaying the line of the verse off Bleek's song. Bleek took it as a cheap shot at him off of Mind Right. (actually i forget how the verse go) So Nas came at him with the verse from The Bridge 2000 (i forget how that Verse goes to im tired) So while Nas is promoting The QB album he is on 106.1 in Cali talking **** on the whole ROC. Jay calls him and talks to him calmly to chill and they can work out their differences. Nas says cool and claims their aint no beef. Well one day while Nas is promothing The QB album out in Atlanta he talks **** on Jay and The Roc again. So at Summerjam Jay says the infamously "ask Nas he don't want it with Hov Noooooooooooooo!" Nas comes back with the Stillmatic Freestyle. Jay overcounters with the Take Over. Nas just burns Jay with Ether. Jay makes a stupid decision and makes Super Ugly taking the beef to far. So Jay admits he was wrong for making Super Ugly than makes Blueprint 2 like a idiot and Nas raps everyting up with Last Real ***** alive.

Thats it the Blueprint of the greatest rap battle in history. Truthfully it should have happened alot sooner than it did. To me it was alot of petty **** to fight about. Jay should have just said **** Nas and did his thing. But than again i can understand where my boi Hova is coming from imagine if your favortie rapper didn't want to do a song with you. Imagine if your favorite rapper ****ted on you so many times when you look up to dude. And don't say Nas aint Jay's fav rapper because Jaz-O even said Jay use to sweat Nas's ball sack. But thats ok because every rapper has to start out as a fan of somebody. To me it was Jay's dream to do a song with Nas and Nas messed that dream up. Now people don't say that I am hating on Jay because i made a thread last week saying he is the Goat which i think he is but Jay wanted to work with Nas so bad and Nas just ****ted on him. Jay has a right to be mad in everyway. But that was funny how Nas aint get a dime for his voice being sampled because he aint own the publishing to his music LOL. And also **** Nas because he ****ed up the chance of putting Jay on the Firm and being on Reaonable Doubt with Jay and Big. Just imagine if Nas was on Reasonable Doubt and Jay was on the Firm. Well who cares i still think Jay and Nas are the 2 best anyways. "
 
 
*
22:26 / 09.10.05
Can you just post a two-line quote and then link to the site please? Look, it's not even very good English.
 
 
Jack Fear
23:07 / 09.10.05
Heard the Kinks' classic "where Have All The Good Times Gone?" 'tother day—and I guess I'd never listened top the lyrics before, because I was surprised to hear what sounded like slams at both the Beatles and the Stones—the former fro their tendency towards nostalgia, the latter for their general miserablism...

Well, once we had an easy ride and always felt the same
Time was on our side and I had everything to gain
Let it be like yesterday
Please let me have happy days

...

Well, yesterday was such an easy game for you to play
But let’s face it things are so much easier today
Guess you need some bringing down
And get your feet back on the ground


...coupled with that incessant chorus, "Where have all the good times gone?" that starts out pensive and gets progressively more snotty.
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:20 / 10.10.05
One of my favourite bitch-songs is Neil Young's "This Note's for You", from the height of the Cola Wars.
Does anyone know if Kate Bush's "Wow", or Frank Zappa's "Bobby Brown Goes Down" were about anyone in particular? Wow was uncharacteristically venomous for Kate...
Oh, yeah, there's Justin Timberlake's "Cry me a River", if you aren't too fussy.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:32 / 10.10.05
Or even if you are.
 
 
Trebor
01:55 / 11.10.05
Don't know if either of these strictly function as grudges, but both provide fairly rlevant giggles.

Chris TT works his way along the list in his (brilliant) song 'Dreaming of injured popstars', my favourite verse being:
"Cher is there with battery acid in her hair
and Bob Dylan has a fork stuck up his nose
all around wales the bands are on fire
as the flames lick higher they run from their homes
it only took one match to burn down Kelly Jones"

Then there is the legendary hip-hop feud between The Infesticons and their enemies The Majesticons, Two groups spawned from the single mind of Mike Ladd in a great big splurge of post-ironic beat sequencing mayhem.
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:50 / 11.10.05
Jack Black's Legend of the Rent, from School of Rock, was a classic, deliberately bad revenge song, even if directed at the fictional band "No Vacancy". Not on the soundtrack C.D., unfortunately...
------------------------------------------------
In the end of time,
there was a man who knew the road,
and the writing was written on the stone...

In the ancient time,
an artist led the way,
but no one seemed to understand...

In his heart he knew,
the artist must be true,
But the legend of the rent was way past due

Rim dim dim dim dim dim dim dim doodit doo doo dit doo rim rim dim dim dim dim dim dim doodit doo doo dit doo

Well you think you'll be just fine,
without me but your mine,
you think you can kick me out of the band

rair rair rair ree rer rair rair reeree rair

Well there's just one problem there,
the band is Mine!
How can you kick me out of what is mine?
Shigga Jigga Jigga Jigga Jigga

Oh you're not hardcore
(no you're not hardcore)
unless you live hardcore
(unless you live hardcore)

But the legend!
of the rent!
was way hardcore!

---------------------------------------------------------
"Get Thee To A Nunnery" by T.I.S.M. was a potshot at Sophie Lee, but more in her capacity as host of the Bugs Bunny show than as lead singer of the Fabulous Freaked Out Flower Children.
Ah, but Arse Hugging Pants was Spiderbait at their vicious best, wherein they WOAH BLACK BETTY BAMALAMMED the dance scene...
------------------------------------------------------
yesterday i got so stressed
i heard there's people half undressed;
poor and sick no credit card
they can't afford the cover charge;

how can i think once my butt starts to wriggle in time;
all of my cares and my thoughts just go out of my mind;
i hit the dance floor with faintly familiar songs,
i'm counting the calories.

we've got to do something for all the poor;
what we need now is an ambassador;
we'll send them Kylie to teach them to dance;
and maybe whip up some arse hugging pants;
how can they think once their butts starts to wriggle in time?

we should go out to the refugee camps;
and turn them into hot discotheques;
all of the people will then hear the call;
all of the world under one mirror ball;
how can they think once their butts starts to wriggle in time?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:55 / 11.10.05
I think that sums up a particular attitude very well - Remember, kids, listening to rock is actually better for starving people in other countries than listening to dance. They will die knowing that you listened to real music, with real emotion, and thus could really feel their pain and possiblyh write a piano ballad about it.
 
 
Mirror
15:20 / 12.10.05
Speaking of "Sweet Home Alabama" (from wayyyyy back in the thread) reminds me of "Play it All Night Long" by Warren Zevon - one of the best vendetta songs I know of.


Grandpa pissed his pants again
He don't give a damn
Brother Billy has both guns drawn
He ain't been right since Vietnam

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

Daddy's doing Sister Sally
Grandma's dying of cancer now
The cattle all have brucellosis
We'll get through somehow

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

I'm going down to the Dew Drop Inn
See if I can drink enough
There ain't much to country living
Sweat, piss, jizz and blood

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:50 / 13.10.05
The Badloves' "Green Limousine" was a softly purred evisceration of musical environmentalist diliettantes- wish I could find the lyrics.
Oh. Didn't Eminem's mother rap a rebuttal to his song about her? Ohhhhh dear. There can be little more embarrassing than your mother rapping. About YOU.
Well, he started it, anyway.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
19:21 / 22.10.05
To throw a bit more gas on the fire, Lennon often claimed in his later years that while he thought he was writing "How Do You Sleep" about McCartney, as he aged, he felt it was more about him.

Of course, by then, he and McCartney were spending time together again, and maybe it was his way of saying "I'm sorry."
 
 
iconoplast
04:04 / 23.10.05
The Brian Jonestown massacre wrote 'Not if you were the Last Dandy on Earth' in response to The Dandy Warhols 'Not if you were the last Junkie on earth,' which song had a video directed by David Lachapelle and for the promotion of which Courtney of the Dandys photo shoot (this story's odd and unclear) took a film crew to the BJM's house the morning after a party to shoot in the wreckage.

Odder still is that the album that Junky is on, Come Down, opens up with a song called Be-In. The Brian Jonestown Massacre's album Give it Back! opens with Super-Sonic. Odd thing? The first thirty seconds of the two songs are identical washes of noise. Each songwriter apparently claims ownership of the sound.
 
  

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