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Kaiser Chiefs

 
  

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All Acting Regiment
10:54 / 07.09.05
I thought we could have a thread about these (partly inspired by the fact that a friend of a friend's band used to play pub gigs with them, but that really has no bearing on this thread).

I'm hoping that mentioning the Kaiser Cheifs will provoke strong feelings, most of which i agree with, but as thread starter I will leave it to others to give us the beef.

Things to think about:

They're NME Favourites.
They don't think Anthony should have won the mercs.
 
 
MacDara
11:03 / 07.09.05
That's funny about the Kaiser Chiefs thinking that Antony and the Johnsons shouldn't have won, because they didn't look too upset about it on camera last night. In fact, Ricky Wilson seemed pretty chuffed.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:15 / 07.09.05
I did use a misleading phrase there: they're on record saying that Anthony wasn't really English.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
11:38 / 07.09.05
They're also on record saying they were wrong about that.
 
 
MacDara
11:38 / 07.09.05
But they could easily have been taking the piss. They are cheeky chappies after all. Anyway, I don't even like them, so I don't know why I'm worrying about it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:51 / 07.09.05
They take a very brace stance on important social issues such as young women in poor financial circumstances who dare to dress provocatively or even have sex!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:54 / 07.09.05
I'm interested to see whether they manage to follow the Blur path by having a second album that isn't as shit as the first.

I bought the album. I admit it. Their lead singer looked kind of cute and I lost all reason. At least I have a crap piece of plastic in my flat and not a baby. I wouldn't even have a draw to put that in.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
19:43 / 08.09.05
Flyboy/Pete Shaftoe- can you expand on that? I was aware that they use the lyric "A man in a tracksuit attacked me".
 
 
macrophage
19:45 / 08.09.05
Absolutley brilliant, they brighten up my MTV2 viewing anyday.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
20:17 / 08.09.05
Now that's a recommendation.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:29 / 08.09.05
Legba - a few lines later, 'I Predict A Riot' contains the following charming lines:

Girls run around with no clothes on
To borrow a pound for a condom
If it wasn't for chip fat, well they'd be frozen
They're not very sensible


They're utterly despicable, really. That song is the equivalent of those hilarious little books and websites about 'chavs'. As someone described them elsewhere, they are "a gang of triumphalists smugly playing the underdog, cheerily having a pint with the common man before slagging him behind his back".

From an interview with one of the witless fucks:

Q. In songs like ‘I Predict A Riot’, there is an overwhelming sense of social commentary in the lyrics. Did you set out to exploit the scenes that you witness everyday in your hometown?

"Well it all just came out in the lyrics really. I used to DJ at this indie club in Leeds and would have to drive past this horrible mainstream club where everybody was pissed and police vans were packing people in. So in that case we are using social commentary but then again we’re not."


'I Predict A Riot' is about people who dress like the Kaiser Chiefs (who, make no mistake, have enough critical mass to have their own orthodoxy in a city as big as Leeds - they are no less 'mainstream' than anyone else) sneering at people for dressing/being different. And note the diminishment of what these nasty 'mainstream' people have done to the poor 'indie' types: now all that has to be endured by yer Kaiser Chief is to drive past the horrible mainstream club! Oh no! He might smell the 'chavs' or something!

And yet despite their affectations to minor dandyism, which they would no doubt use as an excuse for their own prejudice, as is so often the case ("the chavs don't like the way I dress, it messes with their minds!"), there is nothing queer about the Kaiser Chiefs, is there? They, unlike Anthony & The Johnsons, are not "too weird" for the NME. There's not even the mild (and perhaps with 'Do You Want To', less mild) homoeroticism of Franz Ferdinand or The Libertines. They are just a bunch of badly dressed cockwits.

I'm not surprised macrophage - who expects people who live on council estates to be homophobic but couldn't possibly be homophobic when he uses terms like "no good bum bandits and lezzas" himself because it's just a bit of fun! - likes them.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:32 / 08.09.05
Yay, go Antonio y los Johnsons! I only know him from duetting with the celestial Rufus Wainwright but I must totter off to HMV and get some of hisd stuff. Kaiser Chiefs are so-so. Best thing about them is there name. Otherwise, all PR-generated hype.

Apparently the Kaiser Chiefs were a shoo in till the judges saw Antony perform live.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:59 / 09.09.05
Petey Shaftoe: Thank you for providing me with more reasons to despise the Kaiser Chiefs beyond the fact that they are just, by their nature, extremely punchable men.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:28 / 09.09.05
Punchable?



I have no idea what you mean... Careful, though, any minute now one of their fans will be along to accuse us of siding with the bullies even though they'd beat us up too, or something.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:24 / 09.09.05
But at least they don't sound like Coldplay
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:39 / 09.09.05
Petey. Please stop posting that photo.

Urge to kill... rising

Although Petey has pretty much encapsulated exactly why the KCs are so loathesome.

In a just world, they'd be locked in stocks outside a nasty commercial club at kicking out time.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:42 / 09.09.05
Camden's Koko, perhaps.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:48 / 09.09.05
Maybe. For reasons of JUSTICE, it should really be in Leeds.

Imagine the above twerps dripping with chipfat.

*phases out*
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:53 / 09.09.05
Mine's the permed boy on the left. He's just so torturable...

Truth is the Kaiser Chiefs just don't do it for me. Invoke violence I mean. I don't know why, they just seem so naive and I can never bring myself to feel truly angry with innocents.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
14:25 / 09.09.05
Cloth-ears Canty never really listened to the words to 'Riot' (lyrics... who cares?), so failed to realise that, yes, the Kaiser Chiefs really are just as offensive as the rest of their audio-visual package suggests. Thanks for the heads up!

This does raise an issue for me though - despite being a diehard Pulp fan, I was never 100% happy with the snobbery element in a song like 'Mis-shapes' (even more evident in the accompanying video) - so given this song's comparable content, would anyone like to unpack why we should still be allowed to consider Pulp good and the KCs not, despite apparent similarities? Just down to talent, or no?

(Caveat: I don't spend much time in the Radio & Music forum; for all I know every other person here loathes Jarvis Cocker with every fibre of their being. The Pulp-ophilia assumed above is strictly for the sake of kicking off a new leg of this discussion. Please ignore at your leisure.)
 
 
haus of fraser
14:55 / 09.09.05
i was wondering who in the song is going to riot? clearly not teh indie kids- they're all far too wet- scared of the 11 year olds in their hoodies standing around the bus shelter...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:13 / 09.09.05
My hunch is that the title means either a) maligned indie geezer who wears bad suits predicts a riot started by the men in tracksuits and chip-fat girls, which is scary!, or b) maligned indie geezer who wears bad suits predicts a riot started by maligned indie geezers who wear bad suits, in which they throw off the oppression of the men in tracksuits and chip-fat girls...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:01 / 09.09.05
I kind of imagine that the Kaiser Chief's target audience is teenage girls that, if they were ten years older, would have been singing "I want to live with common people like you!" a decade ago and thinking they were one of the 'mis-shapes' rather than the people that those songs attack.

But then, weren't we all?

But in the bad lyrics compo...

Pneumothorax is a word that is long,
They're just trying to put the punk back into punctured lung, Party over, party off, party on,
'Cos we are birds of a feather and you can be the fat one.


< stamp stamp stamp stamp >

Gah!
 
 
macrophage
16:50 / 09.09.05
I like them, they seem fresh, most chartable dance muzak seems like dross for the teenyboppers and the young.

It is good to have musical bands who still embrace a reworking of the guitars genres, I was quite surpised when I seen them on MTV.

With a monicked like that you wouldn't know not what to expect.

I like the name, it challenges us to think in other ways to the norm. It's not pap music anyway. It is real.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:06 / 09.09.05
Haha, keep going mate.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
21:09 / 09.09.05
Flyboy, thanks. Agree with all of it.

Kaiser Cheifs seem to think that no indie kids pay for their condoms- it's only the chip fat girls who do that(thinks: isn't that an indie band?).

Can we have some thoughts on the video from anyone who's seen it? Specifically the naffness of turning the Globe theatre into a moshpit (or "moshpit, dude")?

M:It is good to have musical bands who still embrace a reworking of the guitars genres, I was quite surpised when I seen them on MTV.

Yes, it is good when a band comes along with something that (while of course almost all music is a rehash, intentional or no) sounds new and different, but I don't think the Kaiser Cheifs are it.

Sorry to trot out band names, but give something like Gang Of Four or Joy Division a whirl, and you'll see that the KC sound is hardly groundbreaking.

In fact, speaking as a Guitar Jerk, the clichè of that opening guitar line- "Dum-Duum-Dum-Derrn"- actually hurts me. It really does.

On the other hand...have we ever had a band so groundbreaking in their lyrical ugliness? Are they a new low?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:30 / 10.09.05
It's the Ruts, isn't it? But slowed down a bit...

So, question. Is "Mis-Shapes" less offensive than "I Predict a Riot", and if so is it only because it is better? Are we claiming that Kaiser Chiefs are offensive smuggoes primarily because we're looking for good reasons to dislike the punchable?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:55 / 10.09.05
Good question. Will have a think and return.

And thanks, Canty, for raising this one, as a enormous Pulpophile, I've always felt a little queasy around that song as well.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:43 / 10.09.05
Can someone post the lyrics to mis-shapes?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
16:08 / 10.09.05
C'est ici.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:41 / 12.09.05
While, as a couple of other Pulp fans here have said, I wouldn't want to defend 'Mis-Shapes' 100% - and I'm not sure that's the only Pulp song worth considering here - I think there are a few key differences. Not differences which in themselves make Pulp irreproachable and the Kaiser Chiefs unforgiveable, by any stretch. (And of course, I'm aware that if I judged music by the morality or politics of the lyrics alone, I'd have to bin many beloved records.)

But... Firstly, I would argue that 'Mis-Shapes' is about the rough deal people who are marginalised get in all sorts of ways - arguably Jarvis' first instinct is always to symapthise with the 'weird' poor, then the 'mainstream' poor - with the well-off 'weird' some distance behind, however much they then took his songs to be for them. Someone somewhere else wrote "You get a sense of the frustrations of both sides – townies and 'mis-shapes'." I don't know if Pulp songs were always even-handed, but it is definitely true that there is a sense of desperation, a desperation that is shared by the songs' writer as well as their subjects. That sense of shared desperation, and thus of empathy with and compassion for many of the people who crop up Pulp's songs, distinguished them from many of their lesser contemporaries, and it is those bands whom the Kaiser Chiefs remind me of. We'll come to why that might be in a moment.

Next: I singled out the lines I did and left out the "A man in a tracksuit attacked me" line for a reason. There is an argument to be made that says for all we know, Ricky Wilson could really have been the victim of a vicious and unprovoked attacked by a man who just happened to be wearing a tracksuit, and who are we to object to him reporting that in song form? You can just about imagine Jarvis Cocker circa His & Hers writing a lyric about being beaten up for a taxi. And if you've been given a smack in the mouth or actively harassed for dressing/being different, then yeah, fair enough, be angry at the person or people who did that.

But I cannot for the life of me imagine Jarvis Cocker writing a song in which, to quote some smart Barbelither from a million years ago, "you can practically smell the cunt-fear". This is all the more pointed when you consider how many Pulp songs were actually about people who had more sex than money, and what the tone of those songs was. That line about the "chip fat" really brings this difference home, of course, because of the way it evokes the line about "chip stains and grease" in 'Common People'.

"Girls run around with no clothes on" - obviously this line isn't aimed at nudists, so what does it actually mean? It means they MIGHT AS WELL be naked, the way they dress! Stir in the explicit class commentary - these aren't just almost-naked young women, but poor ones too, they need to borrow money for contraception - and I don't see how anyone can disagree with the argument that this is a very Daily Mail Island attitude.

More in a mo.
 
 
illmatic
10:18 / 12.09.05
Can I just interject to point out that in the first line of "I predict a riot" they rhyme the words "lairy" with "I tell thee"?

Oh-so-punchable, Student Grantism of the worst sort.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:57 / 12.09.05
Good points, Shaftoe (and Illmatic, actually). Thinking about it myself, I tended to come back to:

Check your lucky numbers,
That much money could drag you under.


It's not exactly sympathy, especially as the rest of the verse unfolds, but it does communicate the idea that the people who are beating up the "Mis-Shapes" are fucked as well - they don't have any means to get out of their unhappy lives except the dream of the lottery, and that would just lead to a different kind of unhappiness. Whereas the Kaiser Chiefs do seem to be saying that these ghastly common people are just being ghastly and common out of a perverse desire to upset the Kaiser Chiefs.

There's also, of course, the presence of a body of work by Pulp that shows a much more rounded and multi-faceted approach to urban life. And I don't honestly think that "they're a lot better" is an unacceptable response... it does matter.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:02 / 12.09.05
Nice commentary. Yep, I think one thing that is worth considering is the context, a theme running through Pulp's work, of claustrophobia/lack of option in most, if not all, walks of life.

Eg their post enormous stardom album, This is Hardcore, isn't an album about the poor people and how rubbish their lives are. It's an album written by a man/band who turned up to the opening of an envelope for a couple of years and were disgusted with themselves.

It's possible that the KCs will take this route, but it seems unlikely given the unreflexive nature of their criticism.

This may well be bias, but I never felt that Pulp, even in their most potentially-snobbish lyrics (and I agree, lyrics like, what's the point of being rich/you don't know what to do with it/'cause you're so bleeding thick certainly demand interrogation) were criticising from a comfortable distance.

On the same album, as pointed out above, you get 'Common People', which spikes at rich/posh people for pretending to a groovy bohemanism without taking the financial risks.

Pulp write about class conflict from a variety of viewpoints, and aren't often pleased with themselves. (see His 'n Hers and This is Hardcore). This, I think, comes from having moved across class boundaries themselves to an enormous degree, and being aware of what it's like from several different perspectives.

You've also got, on the same album, Monday Morning, which again takes the pointlessness of unsatisfying workaday existences as its subject, observing someone's week-to-weekend existence. *Not* slating the protagonist for being poor, or thick, but retelling the claustrophobia of lives without options.

I don't, having looked up a bunch of KCs lyrics, get any sense of this perspective shift.

But I did find this, on Flyboy's excellent notion of 'the cunt fear' (see *that's* a Pulp title, if ever I heard one) from Everyday I Love You Less:

Oh, and my parents love me
Oh, and my girlfriend loves me
Everyday I love you less and less
I can't believe once you and me did sex
It makes me sick to think of you undressed
Since everyday I love you less and less
And everyday I love you less and less
You're turning into something I detest
And everybody says that your a mess
Since everyday I love you less and less


Compare this to Underwear, again from DC:

You couldn't stop it now.
There's no way to get out.
He's standing far too near.
How the hell did you get here.
Semi-naked in somebody else's room.
I'd give my whole life to see it.
Just you,
stood there,
only in your underwear.


KCs are definite, Pulps are ambiguous, KC's are pretty sure in their superiority aside from occasional moments of breastbeating. Pulp are very rarely positioning themselves as seperate/privileged observers.

Perhaps it does partly come down to quality of writing, what a lyricist is able to suggest in their work?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:07 / 12.09.05
Okay, part II of what I was saying above...

Partly it is a question of context. Two things I want to cover here, things that are the case today which weren't in 1995, when Different Class (which of course was the album 'Mis-Shapes' was on, I got that wrong above and always do) came out.

Firstly, the term 'chav' hadn't become so popular a term of class/culture-based abuse - with such good defences built in, "we're only talking about the bad ones", etc, that I can't even call it 'classist' without being accused of being Citizen Smith, out of touch with the real world, etc etc - so popular that it's now been used unquestioningly in 'news' pieces in the UK's supposedly left-leaning broadsheet. I would love to know what Jarvis Cocker thinks of the term, and its recent widespread use.

Secondly - and these two things aren't unconnected, but I'll be damned if I'm going to try to pinpoint the hows and whys right now - the cultural position of a certain kind of British guitar music has changed massively since the early-to-mid-Nineties. For better or for worse, the changes wrought (primarily) by Oasis have not been reversed.

Here's the cover of 'Ave It, a compilation of alleged "blokes' songs" (as described in the Guardian, but presumably cribbed from the press release):



'Trash' by Suede is included. That's kind of interesting, don't you think? It suggests a bit of a cultural shift. If Suede's music was ever about and for disparate groups of beautiful outsiders (and mythical as the subjects of their songs may have been, I think there was a time when this was more true than it is now), then it's certainly no longer just for those people.

In some ways that's arguably a good thing. My point is, if 'Trash' has been accepted as an anthem for "blokes", then surely the Kaiser Chiefs are "bloke" music too. So while I'm sure there are kids in small towns who still have to worry about being beaten up for dressing like the Kaiser Chiefs, and that's a bad thing, I don't actually believe that the Kaiser Chiefs are repping for those people in any kind of meaningful way. This isn't outsider music. Which only matters because that's surely the only possible defence of 'I Predict A Riot', is it not?

(One of the more bizarre things about macrophage's post above is the idea that dance music has a stranglehold on MTV and other music channels, and that it's rare to see guitar bands on those channels. I hope nobody else here would disagree with the fact that that's nonsense, whichever kind of music one actually prefers.)
 
  

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