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The Mercury Music Prize

 
  

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Alex's Grandma
13:48 / 05.09.07
I quite like interview with the Klaxons afterwards though, the singer drunkenly mumbling 'I can't believe this ... we only started this band as a joke ...' before one of the others barged into the shot, bug-eyed and plastered in sweat, and began droning on about how 'progressive' both the Klaxons and the Mercury Awards were.

To their credit perhaps, it really didn't look like they were expecting to win.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:55 / 05.09.07
Wiki sez: Basquiat Strings is a British jazz quintet led by the cellist Ben Davis, who composes all the music. It features an innovative line-up which hybridises the classical string quartet (two violins, viola and cello) with the jazz rhythm section (double bass and drums).

Classically trained but having grown up alongside non-classical musicians, they have developed a unique sound which has earned them many fans. In February 2007, the quintet released their first album, put together with the drummer Seb Rochford. The album, entitled simply Basquiat Strings With Seb Rochford, was announced on July 17 as one of the 2007 Mercury Prize nominees.


Guardian has review here.

Can't say I like them. No hate, but they just seem like a lot of "interesting bands" - you know, people from the New-wave period teaming up with "new material", Japanese free-jazz bands with animal noises, a Swedish rapper who interprets Shakespeare; that is, they seem interesting until you put Dizee or the Girls on. Certainly not as interesting as Basquiat himself.

Agree utterly with Fly about the utter boredom of the whole thing. Jools obviously doesn't like the Klaxons very much. Saw Amy nipping off for a coke at one point. Klaxons live were horrible. Cliff Richards of their generation, even though they take their reference points from anti-Cliff material; whereas Dizzy more truly = anti-Cliff.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:11 / 05.09.07
Dizzee didn't exactly come out and start spitting 'Pussy'ole' while throwing up gunfingers, though, did he?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:17 / 05.09.07
No, he didn't, but he was still the best of a bad bunch.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:37 / 05.09.07
Re the Basq. Str. I believe I might have overstated the case in the interest of hyperbole - ie compared to Klaxons they were lightseconds ahead. I don't see the Klaxons/CR link - CR is fun to hate. I don't waste any of my hate on Klaxons. In fact, this is the last time I'll mention them. Ever. Fukkers aint worth more.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:46 / 06.09.07
It does strike me that the one thing they could do to make this award a bit closer to what is preposterously claimed for it, is to limit it to debut albums only. Bit of a bummer for people who bloom later, of course, but at least the supposed distinction between this and the Brits would have more weight. At the very least, they should make it a rule that no former winners can be nominated again...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:16 / 06.09.07
a Swedish rapper who interprets Shakespeare

That's an extremely lazy comparison. Comparing Dizzee to Basquiat Strings is bullshit, they're completely different forms of music and you can like one more than the other because it's to your taste and you can even say that Dizzee has been more groundbreaking in the last few years because he's doing something newer but interesting bands are actually often quite interesting.

I think that comparing a group who play contemporary classical and jazz and making a direct comparison with grime and then comparing the original group to a rapper who takes Shakespeare and thinks it's original to deliver it in another form is just unexamined trounce.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:32 / 06.09.07
I think he was proffering an opinion on the possible reasons for inclusion of some of the artists on the short list, Sparks - something along the lines of, they appear to have been chosen because they're a bit eyebrow-raising.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:34 / 06.09.07
I think that comparing a group who play contemporary classical and jazz and making a direct comparison with grime and then comparing the original group to a rapper who takes Shakespeare and thinks it's original to deliver it in another form is just unexamined trounce.

Well, it is, but it was also a very subjective opinion on the way I tend to process music. I doubt it carries much objective weight.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:39 / 06.09.07
Also - I think it's kind of bad that there's this "Classical + Jazz = Wow, Interesting" formula floating around the band because, whilst it is innovative, there's also innovation in things like turn-tabling and sampling, and in say Timbaland's pop production, and this innovation often goes over-looked by the audience for classical and jazz. Perhaps. I don't know.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
12:11 / 06.09.07
I hope you didn't get that from my post, AR? If so, that was not my intention, I assure you. I agree that classical + jazz does not interesting make, per se. I think I might have thought like that when I was younger and actually more into making and listening to music - that innovation for the sake of it was inherently interesting. I don't think that anymore (and for that matter the merger of classical and jazz is hardly new). There's plenty of innovative stuff that I find atrocious: I offer nu-metal as a piece of evidence.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:07 / 06.09.07
Aye, I didn't get it off your post, more from one of those articles-you-think-you-read-in-the-Guardian, you know.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:10 / 06.09.07
Dude, the Guardian kinda got on Timbaland's jock a while ago. Not when he was at his most exciting, later than that, but a while ago now.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:15 / 06.09.07
Let's move on, then.

What do we think would make a good music prize, or is the whole idea rubbish?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:32 / 06.09.07
I think it's kind of bad that there's this "Classical + Jazz = Wow, Interesting" formula floating around the band because, whilst it is innovative, there's also innovation in things like turn-tabling and sampling, and in say Timbaland's pop production

That doesn't mean it's bad that it's floating around them, which I think is what you suggest above or even that there's a real formula here, it means that "Wow, interesting" should be extended to cover other types of music instead of being limited to one type. That's the way with all art forms and most media because to sell a paper you review what the most people are interested in (depending on who buys the paper).
 
 
Closed for Business Time
13:50 / 06.09.07
I think the idea of a music prize can be for the good of the producers (musicians and certain parts of the music industry) as well as the consumers. Good prizes reward quality over quantity and can enable producers to reach more people without compromising on their artistic integrity through the judicious endowing of media attention, networking opportunities and time+money=creative space. Unfortunately most prizes cater to the haves, not the have-nots. So, in principle my reasoning is they can be great, in practice they are shite.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:21 / 06.09.07
Allmacto, I did say something about this above - one idea would be to have a prize which only shortlisted debut albums. This would at least ensure that genuinely new artists in one sense were being rewarded.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:08 / 06.09.07
What do we think would make a good music prize

Perhaps an award for the most artistically uncompromising album of the year? The prize would be a hundred grand, thus ensuring TV and press coverage, it would be open to pop acts just as much as underground types (the brief could easily include, say, the latest Robbie Williams, hellbent as he appears to be on career suicide these days); it would encourage bands to push the envelope a bit harder, and if nothing else, the ceremony might make for an interesting hour and a half's television. Shameless chart pop vs Grime MCs vs experimental noise acts vs whey-faced indie bands and so on.

Basically, something like the Turner Prize, in the sense of it being an apparently entirely arbitrary award that splits public opinion, and gets the papers in a lather.
 
 
Seth
02:59 / 07.09.07
A good music prize would be one that placed music in context, demonstrate understanding of it and what it achieved, analysed it and its methods of construction, offered exposition on how and why it worked the way it worked and included multiple opinions without care for conflict or contradiction. It wouldn't necessarily offer primacy to the infinitesimally small proportion of music that is actually recorded, but it would contextualise that within everything else that is happening. And it could have multiple winners in a single year.

In short, it would be like a no-lists, show your reasoning thread on Barbelith in which there was no single voice of authority and which actually might actually make you reassess what opinions you might have previously held on an artist or style of music, or help form an opinion on something of which you have no prior experience.

The prize money would be awarded to an initiative of the winners' chosing to assist developing musicians.

Would people be up for explaining their interest in the Mercurys? That's honestly not intended to be an adversarial question, I'm partially wondering whether I should see them as a going concern given my love of music. I'm really interested in why people are posting to this thread, what their motivation is and what they're getting out of it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:59 / 07.09.07
It's a valid question, Seth. I deliberately resisted posting to this thread until someone else had bumped it, because it's not really ideal that the Music forum becomes dominated by people talking about things they don't like.

On the one hand, I think an award like this can be a way of taking the temperature, so to speak, of a certain stream of UK culture. And I also think that right now, the temperature of that culture is decidedly more lukewarm than it has been for a while.

On the other hand, I'm not sure where one goes from that observation. Said "stream" (which isn't the mainstream, since the Mercury Music Prize tends not to consider pop at its shiniest) has never been particularly exciting. Historically threads on Barbelith in which people ask "is it just me or is everything shit?" have been met with "it's just you: put more work into looking for things", and maybe some recommendations.

I think if the Music forum was jumping (jumping) right now, then this thread would be balanced out by others in which people enthused (or otherwise) about stuff. Then again, if the board wasn't so quiet, maybe I'd be less happy to just take what I can get in terms of discussion. As I always promise to do, I will think about what other threads in Music I can start or bump.
 
 
shockoftheother
10:54 / 07.09.07
The Mercurys are interesting because they seem to exist as a barometer of what a certain segment of the musical establishment and corporate world believes we should find interesting / be purchasing. That decision, as it's nominally based on the critical reception of a panel of judges, rather than sales or popularity, says a lot about the way in which the industry or critical bodies represented by the panel believe music is or should be headed. I do think the Mercury is the strangest of the major music awards, as it doesn't have any clear criteria by which the prize should be awarded. Discussion of the deservedness of the winners seems to focus on one of three separate and possibly mutually antagonistic qualities:

- Musically adventurous, technically nuanced, unusual new forms of music.
- Albums that capture the zeitgeist, or represent a neglected, outsider musical culture.
- Popular and critical success.

It seems fairly often that the Mercury judges will aim at highlighting (unjustly?) neglected or underground genres that excite them and that they believe should gain greater exposure, though I think some of the most interesting results - Antony, for instance - come about as a compromise avoiding two more popular albums. Giving the prize to Antony seems to have half been about who didn't get the Mercury that year - which is not to diminish Antony's achievement, and I was thrilled that it went to (IMO) so deserving a winner, though I think it probably should have been awarded to the album preceding 'I am a bird now', which was a far more coherent piece of work.

Which sort of points out one of the Mercury's major failings - cool Dad syndrome, in that it seems perpetually behind the curve, rewarding grime and drum'n'bass a little while after they reach popular boiling point. Perhaps this can be attributed to the mechanics of having an album come to the notice of its panel, but as an avenue to boost the sales of neglected artists, I don't think it can be discounted.

Cool Dad syndrome does rather seem to be in operation this year, as I find it almost impossible to believe that Klaxons' album could have been judged on the quality of its music, as it's pretty much instantly forgettable, badly produced & mastered and curiously uniconic, in that its marketing seems to have happened pretty much through the images of other people. Interesting too that a lot of the defence of the Klaxons (like this Guardian blog entry) has been not in terms of their music but their representation of a youth subculture. In fact, it seems to me that they exist in a strange relationship to the kids dressed in neon clown vomit that made up the culture at Family, Antisocial and that continues its zombie afterlife at Boombox - given that the music policy there seemed to be an upbeat electro that Klaxons never really come anywhere near, to parade them as representative of that strange Shoreditch scene seems to ignore the complex niches of taste and identity that intermix there, much of which was inflected with a heavy dose of irony that seems missing from Myths of the Near Future.

(If you were going to reward a band as representing a subculture, New Young Pony Club seem a much better choice, as their appropriation of New Wave fashions and markers of identity seem much closer to that scene.)

Anyway, the Mercurys? Interesting for what it says about the methods of choice, I guess, and I'm kinda glad that Dizzee and Antony got the money. Relying on any national awards ceremony to give you suggestions of what music to explore is probably a dead end, of course.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:23 / 07.09.07
Which sort of points out one of the Mercury's major failings - cool Dad syndrome, in that it seems perpetually behind the curve, rewarding grime and drum'n'bass a little while after they reach popular boiling point.

While I totally agree about "cool Dad syndrome", I'm not sure this really applies to grime, which had not really caught the public's attention at the time Boy In Da Corner won the Mercury. If anything it compounded the problem that grime had an immediate audience in certain parts of London, and selected audiences here and there outside that (perceived by the mainstream music media as very much a rarified, critic/blogger bunch), but hadn't yet crossed over properly - and one can argue that the way in which the media then focused on grime before it had the chance to cross over caused a lot of problems for the genre.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
13:05 / 07.09.07
we've made the most forward-thinking record in I don't know how long.

That fat one out of Klaxons. I am speechless. I liked the Klaxons back when Gravity's Rainbow first came out. Then I made the mistake of seeing them live, reading about them in the NME and buying the album. It's times like this when I really wonder if I have any clue about music - I thought they were just an alright band, not one who were creating the most forward-thinking record in I don't know how long. How wrong I was.

Still Jamie T's alright, int he?
 
  

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