BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Politics, comics and Paul Pope's Batman 100

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
The Falcon
15:39 / 13.02.06
Anyway, here's the preview for this, which is coming out this week. Looks pretty spiff. Some clunky futuro-surveillance through the eyes of dogs, which settles nothing, except that Pope prolly doesn't like surveillance.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:06 / 13.02.06
Gad! The White House is being run by a tea-sipping English bureaucrat! Who does a comical spit-take at the mention of the BAT-MAN OF GOTHAM!

Foolish Mega-City Judges! YOU CANNOT STOP THE BAT-MAN OF GOTHAM!

Foolish wild horses! YOU CANNOT DRAG JACK FEAR TO THE COMICS SHOP!
 
 
The Falcon
15:20 / 14.02.06
Oh, Jack, as if that were ever an open possibility.

Anyway, back on topic:

Settled! "I'm a political cynic," Pope said. "I'm Libertarian. There's worrisome stuff in the world. The thing I wanted to seriously address and I hope that others will respond to, is that we live in a world where the reality is we face weapons of mass destruction and are in a position where there really are people in the world who want to hurt us. The idea of one lone vigilante fighting crime and the appeal of that is somewhat challenged by the thought of a suitcase bomb that could kill a million people or infect a city with botulisms or something like that. I wanted a new way to fit a superhero into this sort of post September 11 world, where there really is mass terror going on."

"It's like we live in a comic book world without superheroes for real," Pope continued. "That's our world now. I wanted to try to find a way to bring a superhero fully conscious of himself as a superhero to this world and see how he could be updated. Recently four bombs went off in London. Our world is dangerous. It's frightening. I want to respond to that."


Apparently Frank Miller helped him brainstorm this'n.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
16:43 / 14.02.06
thanks for bringing this up, Bed, and others for the debate. I wasn't aware of it [having only read his SOLO issue - ths more or less puts the ghost toy short in another perspective - and HEAVY LIQUID] and also of the fact American Libertarians usually voted Republican, given the fact most conservatives call left-wingers "Libertarians".

maybe Pope is an Anarcho-Capitalist, then... which sounds a lot like a hipper version of Yosemite Sam locked in his forest cabin, surrounded by the FBI, after having killed some hippies who inadvertedly entered his property.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
16:45 / 14.02.06
or a hip rich kid who want to evade taxes because nobody but him worked hard for those page rates. =)
 
 
Jack Fear
16:58 / 14.02.06
DING DING DING
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:11 / 15.02.06
Prior to 11th September 2001, there was really no mass terror going on! But now there is! In London! OH NOES!

Pope, you dick, get back to drawing the hipster kids smoking. Ugh.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
12:55 / 15.02.06
I like politics in comic books and feel like the more politics that creep in there the better. What's personal politics anyways but the tools by which an individual engages with the world around them, crafting a lens through which they can view the whole shadow show and feel like it makes some sense. I think that the more politics (done artfully) the better because the comics without politics in 'em are...well, many of them are sort of boring and insular.

So what do I consider artfully done politics?

American Flagg was Chaykin proving that liberal, left-wingers could still be hard-hitting bastards and patriotic citizens. Flagg's knee-jerk hatred of the Soviety bloc was off-putting when I first read the issues in high school but now it seems kind of refreshing and sexy. Here's a character that the readers like, someone who stands up for truth and freedom and he can also be a pig-head. Plus, as a Jew, Flagg had plenty of personal reasons to hate the Soviets.

Whenever I want to answer the question "What does it feel like to be a conservative?" I do a Jimmy Olson and drink a little of Potter's serum by reading DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Wow. Miller does a great job of putting you in Batman's head and letting you feel the vicarious rush of a big daddy making all the decisions society needs.

Conversely, when I need to come down from the Conservo-serum, I take a little dose of Alan Moore's SWAMP THING which contains all the vitamins and minerals you need to feel like tree-hugging, kumbaya, womyn-empowerment is actually dead sexy and could get you laid in the right circles.

Then it's back to conservative land with Millar's ULTIMATES, but you can balance that with Morrison's VIMANARAMA which is an incredibly political act these days that no one talks about (humanizing the face of London Islam at a time when London + Islam = subway bombings to most people).

I wish there were more artful politics in comics. Judging from the examples above from Paul Pope he has a tendency to lecture, but still there's hope. I mean, encountering Libertarian views isn't actually physically harmful and besides, Libertarians can never make a real-world case for themselves and so my guess is that while Pope thinks he's doing Libertarianism he'll probably be doing anti-authoritarian which all the best superheroes are anyways.
 
 
sleazenation
13:37 / 15.02.06
(humanizing the face of London Islam at a time when London + Islam = subway bombings to most people).

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Vinamarama set in Bradford or somewhere in the north of England away from London?

Outside of that, I'm all for seeing finely crafted, well-thoughtout politically engaged comics. But from what I've seen so far, I don't have high hopes for this project.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:58 / 15.02.06
Morrison's VIMANARAMA... is an incredibly political act these days that no one talks about

I seem to remember that people on this board talked an awful lot about the politics of Vimanarama, good and bad, at the time.
 
 
sleazenation
14:06 / 15.02.06
And indeed didn't sax write a piece on the poltics of Vinamarama that got picked up by the Guardian?
 
 
The Falcon
14:54 / 15.02.06
To be fair to Grady, he has only been onboard since 9/05, but perhaps reading the thread on the comic before making that statement might've been an idea; sleaze, there were bits (most of #2, iirc) set in London, but mostly Bradford, yeah.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
22:18 / 15.02.06
Thanks for the corrections. Shows how much attention I paid while reading it. I'm not too familiar with the UK and just sort of assumed Bradford was around the corner, down the hall, and up the stairs from London.

But the point still stands that I think well-done politics actually make comics better. And I think a lot of comics would be a lot better if their creators included politics. I would even go so far as to say that including politics (and by politics I mean an engagement with the world outside our windows) are even necessary to good comics. An average issue of BATMAN or JLA or JSA or HULK or SPIDER-MAN tends to be so insular these days that reading it is a frictionless experience. Most comics readers these days seem to be over the age of 15 and once you're over that hump you're ready for politics. You're ready for war, and rallies, and corruption, and taxes, and suicide bombers, and unions, and welfare vs. workfare and all the other stuff that goes with it.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
22:24 / 15.02.06
Thanks for the corrections. Shows how much attention I paid while reading it. I'm not too familiar with the UK and just sort of assumed Bradford was around the corner, down the hall, and up the stairs from London.

But the point still stands that I think well-done politics actually make comics better. And I think a lot of comics would be a lot better if their creators included politics. I would even go so far as to say that including politics (and by politics I mean an engagement with the world outside our windows) are even necessary to good comics. An average issue of BATMAN or JLA or JSA or HULK or SPIDER-MAN tends to be so insular these days that reading it is a frictionless experience. Most comics readers these days seem to be over the age of 15 and once you're over that hump you're ready for politics. You're ready for war, and rallies, and corruption, and taxes, and suicide bombers, and unions, and welfare vs. workfare and all the other stuff that goes with it.
 
 
Robert B
01:12 / 16.02.06
Slightly Off Topic (maybe) but Frank Miller is goin' political with Batman vs/ Al-Qaida

Not sure what to expect with this one.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
02:16 / 16.02.06
I am!

 
 
FinderWolf
15:19 / 23.03.06
*bump for discussion of actual comic*
 
 
Andria
15:51 / 23.03.06
I didn't want to bump this topic out of... I don't know, shyness (as usual), but now that it is bumped, I'll quote my post from the "Weekly Review" topic, to get this topic restarted, maybe.

(quotation)
I recently bought Batman: Year 100 #2 by Paul Pope and Jose Villarrubia, and I'm surprised there's been no real mention of it here (excluding that old thread about Pope's political opinions). It's such a fantastic comic: there is something very nice about it being Batman, and published by DC, and yet with this really cool and gorgeus art and vision which contrasts so greatly to just about everything else DC publishes right now (not counting Vertigo, but even if I did, the point would still stand).

Certainly, it's Pope's most mainstream comic yet, but despite my usual indie kid elitism (half-joking, of course) that's not a bad thing. For the most part Villarrubia's digital coloring is great and even adds to the artwork - makes it look nice and shiny, without detracting from the greatness of the lines drawn so skillfully by Pope (with a few exceptions, but nothing serious). I thought I would say more about the plot, but possibly because Pope both draws and writes it, it's hard for me to draw a clear distinction between the writing and the art, which is how a really good comic should be, I think. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and all that.

So obviously I'm very enthusiastic about it and writing any more would just be repeating the same positive opinions, only formulated somewhat differently, so instead I'll just note that I found it amusing that Pope managed to fit teenagers staring moodily through car windows into a Batman comic. Greatly recommended; has anybody else read it?
(end quotation)

To make it more on-topic here, I'll add that it's not bluntly political or lecturing about libertarianism or anything. It's more the rebellious-and-sexy-cool-individuals-versus-oppressive-state-thing we all know and love. A certain scene in issue 2 even involved some form of magick, or at least what I percieved as a ritual that could be related to what little I know of magick (possibly my favourite scene in the issue as well, as Pope's art takes the step from just very stylised to actually abstract, with great and almost frightening results).
 
 
FinderWolf
16:44 / 23.03.06
word up, janus, thanks for putting your review here, and don't be shy about moving old topics up! They like to be brought out of mothballs of page 7 or thereabouts on the thread list.

As for Batman Year 100, I haven't read issue 1 or 2 yet, they're in a big pile of unread comics waiting to be gotten around to...but the art looks gorgeous, and Jose V.'s colors work wonderfully with Pope's art. (I see they first teamed up in Pope's SOLO issue)
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
23:52 / 10.04.06
Batman, Manga and Life on Mars: Talking with Paul Pope
by Calvin Reid, PW Comics Week -- 3/21/2006


a long piece I just found via Ellis' blog; haven't read it yet but hopefully he touches upon the subjects we were discussing here earlier.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:54 / 07.06.06
I have only speed-skimmed my copy of #4 but there's a cool twist in here about the 'someone takes up the mantle in the future' concept in comics, if my speed-skim steers me right. I was genuinely surprised...a rare thing in an Elseworlds-type/set-in-far-flung-future book.
 
 
Janean Patience
14:06 / 28.03.07
Fucking Batman. I should know better than to trust him by now.

I shouldn't have bought this comic anyway. I didn't have the money, but I'd been so in love with Pope's 100% and Heavy Liquid that I couldn't resist. The presence of a superhero usually turns me away but this was Batman, who I thought was awesome when I was a kid, who I had history with and whose comics I'd enjoyed even quite recently. And Paul Pope. Loopy politics aside, his characters, his imagining of a skewed future, his deliciously intuitive brushwork had taken me from "Who's Paul Pope?" to "Paul Pope's fucking fantastic, here read this," in only two graphic novels.

From now on, I shall exercise more caution.

SPOILERS FOLLOW

What was the point of this Batman: Year 100? Was there one? It began with him bloody and in retreat from repressive futurepolice on a rooftop. He called some people he works with to get away. We never really find out who they are, who he is, or why they're all working together. One is called Robin; one fills the generic hacker role, the sidekick every hero needs. There's also a police commissioner called Gordon, complete with grey walrus moustache, an honest cop being browbeaten by federal bullies. The plot, such as it is, progresses. Batman breaks into the Fed building to find out more about the incident in which he was shot, where it appears someone else was the target. Gordon finds out more about the same incident and also more about the Batman, all mention of which has been deleted from Gotham's files. Nobody ever seems to have heard of this Bat-Man, as others put it above. So the long sequence in which Gordon eventually gets access to the files hidden by his predecessor by guesses like "The Joker" and "Bruce Wayne" is hard to explain. Perhaps he's a big fan of the Adam West series.

Long sequences is what this book's about, really. There's something very European about its style. The story is very much in service to the art. The first quarter is Batman escaping from the cops at length. He seems to be able to kick some ass when challenged but it's not entirely clear how - he jumps about, people shout things, then he's gone, The action is muddy and confusing. Pope's art is somehow ugly. It's self-indulgent. When Bats meditates Pope closes in on the melted candles and I thought, Yeah, that's what the figurework and the buildings and the Batgadgets all remind me of. Melted candles. It seems entirely unsuited to the long action sequences which dominate the comic. Batman has a Batcycle which folds in half and hangs from the roof. I only worked this out by reading the text pages at the end of the book. It wasn't clear in the artwork, at least first time around; it looked like a bag of gears and machinery. There are at least three, possibly twice that number, sequences where Batman's cornered by a bunch of gun-wielding cops and jumps at them, wearing fake bitey teeth, and gets away. Action in comics is entirely dependent on clarity. The skill of a Miller, a Sim, a Cowan appears to be absent here. I'd say it was lost in translation if this was a hot Euro artist drawing for DC for the first time, which is what it feels like, but it isn't. This is Paul Pope. I'd say he's just not the man for lengthy action sequences if he hadn't handled quite a few brilliantly in Heavy Liquid.

Anyway, Batman gets a load of blackmail secrets, goes straight to the corrupt police and takes them out. Previous to this meeting they'd appeared to be the supreme authority. Some fascist junta, I'd figured. As soon as they're taken down there appears to be a higher authority to subject them to and they'll face justice. Gordon and the Batman cement their predictable alliance and Gordon reveals that he knows Batman's really Bruce Wayne. Which comes as news to us, as there's been no exploration of his personality (or indeed his world) whatsoever to make this a valid payoff line.

The Berlin Batman story mentioned upthread's also included in the trade, and is a slight piece of trash with pretty art. Saving von Mises's work appears to be just one part of a campaign against the Nazis. Batman: Year 100 itself seems very... inexplicable. Why did Pope want to waste his time doing this? What did he think he was bringing except a new costume design? Did anyone enjoy this?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
22:36 / 28.03.07
I was dissappointed. Likewise I found it hard to fathom what the point of the story was, and the clunky 'terrorist' theme left a sour taste in my mouth.
It's a shame really - I adore Pope's work in general (even if it is slightly too hip for it's own good) mainly because of his fluid, explosive brushwork. His fusion of Euro, Manga and American is (or perhaps was) brilliantly refreshing, and his energetic storytelling and strong design sense are a treat.
But this felt...weak. I find it somewhat dispiriting that all these wunderkind indie artists' real ambition seems to be to tell stories with established mainstream superheroes. Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play with icons like Batman I'm sure, but compare this to the visceral freewheeling fun of THB - it's so damn lifeless. Even his art seems restrained and dampened.
Apart from the absolutely brilliant bike chase, I might add, which sadly came as too little too late.
But finally - do we really need another bloody grim dystopian vision of Batman? Is there really anything more to be said?
Pfeh.
 
 
Spaniel
12:07 / 29.03.07
I find it somewhat dispiriting that all these wunderkind indie artists' real ambition seems to be to tell stories with established mainstream superheroes.

Don't be dispirited. I imagine it has a lot more to do with a mercenary desire for cold, hard cash than it does fanboy obsessions.
 
 
Janean Patience
12:26 / 29.03.07
I find it somewhat dispiriting that all these wunderkind indie artists' real ambition seems to be to tell stories with established mainstream superheroes.

I'd be very surprised if it was Pope's real ambition. If it was, he could have done it a long time ago. At a guess I'd say it was the classic indie artist's trick of bringing their work to a mainstream (for comics) audience in order to hook more people in to their creator-owned stuff. Plus it offered the chance to work in full colour, which Pope's previous two books weren't, and for much less - both Heavy Liquid and 100% had about the same page count as this but cost closer to £20 than £10.

(Shocked to see Heavy Liquid is £80 second-hand on Amazon. £££!)

Being given the concepts of Batman without any baggage of continuity isn't exactly a sell-out, anyway. There's the leeway to do whatever you want. I wonder how Pope thinks this one worked out? I wonder if he was happy with it?
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply