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The Death of Roe V. Wade

 
  

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Pingle!Pop
18:03 / 22.02.06
Everyone's waiting to see how Alito will vote...

Erm, I don't want to sound facetious, but... is anyone? Unless his entire legal career has been a huge charade designed to land him on the Supreme Court so he can suddenly reverse his entire judicial philosophy, is there any more doubt about how Alito will vote than, say, Scalia?
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
01:04 / 23.02.06
In all probability, Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and now Alito will vote at a minimum to curtail Roe. Stevens is 86; so if he dies or retires before 2009 you might have 5-9 who have to be considered definitively not pro-choice. This doesn't mean that some, to an extent all, of these people are not somewhat reasonable. I don't think that Roberts, in particular, will at any point deny that there is a constitutional right to privacy. That being said, I also don't doubt that State laws imposing somewhat more strenous restrictions on choice will be more likely to survive scrutiny in the coming years.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:32 / 23.02.06
Thinking this is the best place to raise the situation in South Dakota where the state legislature has approved a bill to ban most abortions.

Supporters of the bill state that the aim is to trigger a battle over the 1973 Roe-versus-Wade ruling, in which the US Supreme Court established that governments lacked the power to prohibit abortions.

The Dakota bill allows abortion as a possibility* only if the women's life is at risk, and excludes rape.

*and even in these cases, doctors may recieve jail sentences of upto 5 years for performing abortions.
 
 
Professor Silly
18:14 / 24.02.06
Considering the type of conservatives on the court, I think the most likely outcome (if any) would involve the overturning of Roe vs. Wade in favor of state rights--each state will have to decide for itself.

I see this as a very grave error.

Still, on the bright side, the states that will move the quickest to outlaw abortions will be those with the lowest education levels (Mississippi, Alabama, etc.). This will result in increased infant mortality rates and teen pregnancies...which when factored in with the terrible health care throughout this country will REALLY fuck things up. The Discordian in me is utterly thrilled, while the humanitarian wants it all to be a bad dream.

If this trend (state rights and privatization) continues, some parts of the country will become cesspools of poverty and disease while other parts will prosper. One more reason for me to avoid the "bible belt."
 
 
grant
03:33 / 25.02.06
I wouldn't be so hasty with the "Bible belt" thing. South Dakota is th' other side of the country.

So is Maine, for that matter. And, uh, Massachusetts?

Here are abortion permission/notification laws state by state. Note that Oklahoma is a no-permission state, and Arkansas is a notification, not permission state.Actually, that's as of 2002 -- I think the information (and maps!) on wikipedia are more up to date. Notice on the maps that Tennessee is "enjoined" on waiting periods and mandatory counseling, and North Carolina has neither.

If South Dakota goes the way these folks want, I'd be really surprised if Colorado didn't follow. But that's mainly the result of my preconceptions about Colorado.

(OK, here's a weird thing -- I *swear* I wrote that before I decided to, just on the off chance, check out Professor Silly's location. And of all the states.... Sorry, but it's the South Park thing. That and this guy, who has squat to do with abortions, but, well. I promise that was a coincidence and not a rhetorical device.)
 
 
Professor Silly
14:16 / 25.02.06
Very interesting maps, Grant!

I've read before that Mississippi has the most restrictions among the 50 states...and nearly the highest teen pregnancy and infant mortality rates. That's not to say these statistics are directly related--I'd guess they all have to do with education.

As for Colorado--I'm not at all certain on what we'd do. On the one hand, the fight for legal abortions apparently got its start here...but that was a long time ago. I saw a survey recently that showed only 35% of Coloradoans want abortion outlawed, and 56% want no restrictions...but surveys are notoriously flawed. Boulder is obviously very very liberal, and Denver is fairly liberal...but Colorado Springs (location of Norad) is extremely conservative, as are the plains to the east. True, Colorado went to Bush in 2004 (barely), but we did elect a (moderate) Democrat to the Senate the same year...and both parts of the state legislature are currently democratic.

If I were to boil it all down...I think Colorado will remain pro-choice--the conservatives here are of the "fiscally conservative, rights and freedoms" variety. They worry more about the military than anything else. And while they outnumber the liberals here, the largest group of voters within Colorado are registered "independant."

I guess we'll see....
 
 
pomegranate
23:14 / 28.02.06
diz is right; a constitutional amendment to ban abortion won't get passed; it'd draw too much attention. instead the right to an abortion will just get chipped away, little by little. like by being made severely inconvienient. those "waiting periods" like yr buying a fucking handgun mean that poor women have to take two days off of work (one for the initial, "i'd like to have an abortion" visit, the next for the "yeah, i'd still like to have an abortion, like i said before" a few days later) instead of one. when last i read it (a few years ago), over 80% of counties in the u.s. didn't even have an abortion provider. it barely matters if something's legal if you can't get to it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:29 / 02.03.06
Mississippi next?
 
 
Jati no Rei
09:54 / 16.12.06
I know almost nothing about legal theory, but I remember hearing on an NPR commentary around the time of the Alito nomenation that Roe v. Wade actually had quite a few legal holes and was overall rather flimsy. It seems to me the best way to aproach the issue would be to have the national legislature pass a law that would guarantee a doctor's right to perform an abortion and a woman's right to have one in any state that does not have a contistutional amendment banning it. Then, have as many states as possible pass amendments protecting it, and keep the number of states that outlaw it to a minimum, through letter writing campaigns (even from out of state "I'll move there and vote you out!" in volume...) and on-site protests, etc.
 
 
grant
16:49 / 31.01.07
Worst case scenario: college student reports rape, gets tossed in jail for outstanding warrant, is refused morning-after pill by jail medics "for religious reasons."
 
 
ibis the being
22:37 / 08.02.07
I got the March issue of Marie Claire magazine today and there is a good article in it about why the 'partial birth abortion' ban is a bad thing. Sorry I can't link, they don't have it up online, at least not yet. It's written by a woman who had a late-term abortion because her fetus was found to have spina bifida; she touches on the numerous problems with the ban legislature, including its vagueness and non-specifity, its lack of exceptions for birth defects or health of the mother, etc. I was pleased that such a widely read magazine is highlighting this issue... will post a link if ever they do put it online. Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone is interested in checking it out.
 
 
grant
16:28 / 19.02.07
Candidate McCain, double-you tee eff?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:50 / 19.02.07
No big surprise there, Right-Wing Conservative Christians are reportedly furious that Bush has spent so much time concentrating on sorting out the clusterfuck that is Iraq that he hasn't pushed through the legislation they wanted, no gay rights ever, women to have no control over their bodies etc etc. They were reported as considering going back in to their caves and not voting come the next election. McCain seems to be aiming to be right-wing enough that they'll vote for him so he won't need any moderate votes.

The question is whether the right will buy it as they did twice before.
 
 
ibis the being
21:50 / 30.03.07
The South Carolina legislature is trying to pass a bill that would require women seeking abortions to first view an ultrasound of the fetus.

Some form of a controversial House-passed bill requiring women seeking an abortion to first view an ultrasound is on a path to pass the Senate, anti-abortion and abortion-rights advocates both say.

Look for changes, though, that include exceptions for victims of rape and incest.

“It’s the one amendment getting traction, and I’ve heard support for it in both parties,” said Sen. Mike Fair, R-Greenville, who led a panel taking testimony Wednesday on a similar Senate bill.

Other changes, including one that makes viewing the ultrasound an option for women, also could come up. But it will face a tougher road.

“To get a bill passed through this body, there will be exceptions,” said Sen. Danny Verdin, R-Laurens, a panel member.

After a three-hour floor debate last week, the House easily passed an identical bill but narrowly defeated an amendment that would have created exceptions to the ultrasound requirements in the cases of pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.

At least 41 people showed up in two Senate hearings Wednesday to speak on the controversial abortion proposal. South Carolina would be the first state in the nation to require a woman to view an ultrasound of her pregnancy before getting an abortion.


I read about this on a site called AlphaMom... article by Alice Bradley.
 
 
Mirror
23:50 / 18.04.07
More distressing news today:

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act by a 5-4 majority, overruling two successive appeals courts that had struck down the ban, which has no provision for the welfare of the mother.

Kennedy's language in the majority opinion is horrifying:

"The government may use its voice and its regulatory authority to show its profound respect for the life within the woman."


Lots of articles here.

With this victory under their belts, I give it less than six months before the right-to-lifers get a case where there's opportunity to overturn Roe to the Supreme Court.
 
 
Tsuga
01:24 / 19.04.07
Ah, christ. I just read the NY Times article on it, the language used by the majority is totally repellent and depressing. I can't say much more right now. Just goes to show you yet again how important it is who is elected president.
 
 
ibis the being
01:27 / 19.04.07
Thanks for posting Mirror. I'm sickened by this news but I can't say that I'm shocked by it. Having read about ongoing efforts to push this ban, it kind of felt inevitable ever since Bush spiked the Court's punch. The overturning of Roe seems fated as well, I fear.

I'm sorry I don't have anything useful to add... just a bit speechless and dismayed.
 
 
Ticker
02:00 / 19.04.07
Well what's the path if it get's nuked in the Supreme Court?
How would we push it back through?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:58 / 19.04.07
Meanwhile in the UK the Independent reported on Monday that the UK abortion service is finding it increasingly difficult to maintain a service because more and more doctors are refusing to offer the service. Reasons include religious beliefs, a false belief that contraception methods are so great that no woman gets pregnant unless she wants to and apparently the fact that doctors can't talk about what they do in polite society.
 
 
Mirror
14:28 / 19.04.07
Seems like if Roe gets overturned, then it's up to the states to decide individually whether or not abortion is legal within their borders. This will probably result in a map of the U.S. that's split up about like the 2004 election results, with abortion being legal on the east and west coasts and with bans of varying severity put into place throughout the heartland.

From there, it seems like there are a couple of possibilities. One is that somebody in a ban state goes to court to overturn the ban with a stronger constitutional claim than the right to privacy that was the keystone of Roe. Alternatively, it's always possible to try to amend the Constitution, but this would be a tough fight since it would require ratification by the states.

If Roe gets overturned and widespread abortion bans go into effect, not only will we see a lot of suffering due to back-alley abortions but our social services systems, which are already underfunded, will likely collapse under weight the subsequent baby boom.

Ultimately, I think that the pendulum will swing back, but I think a lot of people are going to have a pretty rough time for a few years.
 
 
Ticker
14:38 / 19.04.07
Ok so if we get a pro choice Prez in the next election, anything we can do that way?
 
 
HCE
07:07 / 20.04.07
We can wait for five justices to retire during the presidency of somebody pro choice. That's the quick way. The slow way is to improve education, so we have a deep pipeline of people aware of what's at stake, and who will hopefully someday vote in their own interests.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:16 / 20.04.07
I have a stupid question and I apologise for not understanding the American system very clearly.

Firstly, what is state health care like? As I understand it it's fairly non-existent. Is that correct?

Secondly, can a woman who inhabits a state where abortion is banned leave that state and go to another state to have an abortion? Would that be illegal? Or is it just like going to another country to have surgery, possible if you have the cash? If so, is it correct to asssume that the people who will most suffer from states banning abortion are the women who most need it; i.e. those who can't afford to pay for private health care in a state where it is legal?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:03 / 20.04.07
I thought people might be interested in Justice Ginsberg's dissenting opinion, which makes it very clear (I think) that a) the ban of this particular type of late-term abortion, which is often the most suitable for reasons connected with the woman's health, will only succeed in endangering reproductive health, as late-term abortions may still be performed by other, more dangerous means; and b) that the majority of the Supreme Court is basically hostile to women's rights:

The Court's hostility to the right Roe and Casey secured is not concealed. Throughout, the opinion refers to obstetrician- gynecologists and surgeons who perform abortions not by the titles of their medical specialties, but by the pejorative label 'abortion doctor.' A fetus is described as an 'unborn child,' and as a 'baby,' second-trimester, dissenting pre-viability abortions are referred to as 'late-term,' and the reasoned medical judgments of highly trained doctors are dismissed as 'preferences' motivated by 'mere convenience.'

I can't quite credit that this can have been passed with no exceptions regarding the health of the mother. WTF?
 
 
grant
15:16 / 20.04.07
Welcome to politics, American style.

Olulabelle asks: what is state health care like? As I understand it it's fairly non-existent.

Answer: it's XXXXXX non-existent. There is no such animal. There may be cheap clinics that are supported by some kind of government grants, but they're rare, and not really "health care" in the way you'd be thinking about the term. A one-stop shop for bandaids and diagnoses, with occasional prescriptions for drugs you'd still have to pay for. There are animals called Medicaid and Medicare, but they're more of a partial financing method for retirees and people officially registered as disabled than an actual source of medical help. In some states, Medicaid is run by a private medical insurer; in most states, it's run like one.
 
 
Ticker
16:20 / 20.04.07
Secondly, can a woman who inhabits a state where abortion is banned leave that state and go to another state to have an abortion? Would that be illegal? Or is it just like going to another country to have surgery, possible if you have the cash? If so, is it correct to asssume that the people who will most suffer from states banning abortion are the women who most need it; i.e. those who can't afford to pay for private health care in a state where it is legal?

Most of our states are really quite big (except for the squeeshed up NE ones) and it can be both expensive and difficult for people to travel.

Plus if abortion is banned on a Federal level I believe technically that overrides per state laws. Some states may fight it or not inforce it but it will lead to a big ass showdown.

Considering how difficult it is for a poor woman to get an abortion now it's truly horrific to think about if she has to travel even further.
 
 
Ticker
16:55 / 20.04.07
Oh and welcome to my country

3/22/07: A bill designed to eventually outlaw and criminalize abortion in Mississippi was signed into law by Gov. Haley Barbour today.

The measure will ban nearly all abortions in the state if the U.S. Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that legalized abortion nationwide. If Roe v. Wade is overturned and the state bill becomes law, anyone performing an illegal abortion in Mississippi would face one to 10 years in prison.

The bill also tightens consent laws for minors and requires abortion provider to perform sonogram and give the pregnant woman an opportunity to listen to a fetal heartbeat. It is just one of several abortion laws being considered across the country.
 
 
grant
16:58 / 20.04.07
To illustrate, I don't live as far as it's possible to get from the border, and it takes me more than six hours at 60 mph (average) to reach the nearest state (Georgia), and eleven hours give or take to reach the second-nearest (Alabama, which also shares a border with FL). That's in a car that works. There's no public transport option.

Once there, I'd probably (depending on AL and GA law) also have to sign some kind of waiver or possibly even prove residency -- most states that have "permissive" laws make arrangements not to serve folks from neighboring states that don't. Remember, these are state laws, not federal.

Lemme see... Here's a handy chart of requirements by state. Looks like most have parental notification laws or judicial waivers rather than (or in addition to) residency requirements; I'm not up on this, but I'd imagine the waiver would have to come from a judge in the state in question.

Hawaii recently repealed its residency requirement, so a Hawaiian vacation is always an option.

I wonder how long it'd take to drive there....
 
  

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