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Cindy Sheehan

 
  

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Cherielabombe
18:38 / 17.08.05
I have been quite interested in the Cindy Sheehan story. Cindy is an activist whose 24 -year old son died in Iraq in April of 2004. Sheehand is now staging a vigil outside Bush's ranch in Crawford, TX. She's asking Bush to take just a little bit of time out of his month-long vacation to meet with her and ask Bush directly: why did her son have to die?

Needless to say, Bush has thusfar refused to meet with her, saying things like 'her song died for a noble cause,' etc. The American media, however, has really picked up this story.

Which I must say, really gives me hope. The actions of this woman have attracted worldwide attention - whether she is successful in her quest to get Bush to pay attention to her story - which is the story of thousands of other families.

So, what do the barbeloids think? Right on Cindy? A lost cause? Or something else entirely? Thoughts?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
19:07 / 17.08.05
I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but it's very brave, and I agree with her one-hundred percent. She sure seems to be stirring the pot, though, which is great in and of itself.

She's really being vilified by FOX News, which has become my barometer of how much I like something: it's an inverse relationship to how much their pundits try to discredit it. When Bill O'Reilly said her actions "border on the treasonous," I knew she was getting under the skins of the Bush administration.

Her chances of getting a meeting with Bush are nil, but she is succeeding in making him and his cronies look like the total assholes they are, and their media arm like the shrill, reactionary liars that they are.

Bravo.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
19:09 / 17.08.05
There's a ton of info on this at www.smirkingchimp.com, my go-to source for Bush-related evils.
 
 
ibis the being
19:51 / 17.08.05
I've been following this story as well. I'm falling in love with this woman - if you ever hear her speak, what's really awesome about her is that she speaks calmly and softly but makes all the right points. While her presence plays the Mourning Mother card - which, don't get me wrong, works really well in the context of the emotion-based Bush admin - her actual message is smart and relevant. She points out in no wishy-washy terms that the President has changed his "reasons" for the Iraq war several times now, and she would like to know what the real reason is. "What is the noble cause" American soldiers are dying for, as she asked on NPR's On Point last week.

I don't think her is a lost cause at all. In fact I think she's putting a really useful and compelling face to the antiwar movement in the US that could really strengthen it.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:57 / 17.08.05
I don't think this is a lost cause, simply because America needs this woman and others like her who are prepared to dedicating their time to get some answers. Even if Bush doesn't meet with her and she's villified consistently by the Right Wing press she's an example of something extremely important. Her presence there opens up questions that should have been asked officially and it will be remembered.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
20:09 / 17.08.05
I only meant that her ever meeting Bush was a lost cause. I was trying to say that she is doing good thing even though her main goal is unattainable. Sorry for the murkiness, Nina.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:27 / 17.08.05
I'm with Jake... it's a lost cause, in the sense that GWB ain't suddenly gonna go "oh my God... what have I done???"
But it's a totally wonderful thing to do (apart from being, on the human level, the most rational response, and quite frankly what I'd do in the same situation- nothing she will ever do will bring him back, but by Christ anger is the only response to that) and... I wish her all the luck and love in the world; unfortunately human concerns don't actually seem to be an issue to the people that make the decisions. Not even nominally. C'mon, we're told that Iraq (despite the enormous bodycount) is a much better place now, despite the fact that it seems to be turning into what Afghanistan was when that was something "we" should make better...

There's really no upside to any of this, is there?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:42 / 18.08.05
I'm almost more disgusted by the press response than that of any government? I mean it's clear that most leaders aren't actually in touch with any basic humanity, they all seem happy to condemn their children to a dying world after all... that people who are basically holding down an ordinary job can't emphasise with her is the fact that disturbs me.
 
 
sleazenation
10:08 / 18.08.05
I'm not sure if Cindy Sherman getting to meet George W Bush is the point of the exercise as much as highlighting the massive disconnect between the president and the people he is supposed to be representing.

The best way GW Bush could handle this, and I have a feeling it would be the way that Blair would handle it if placed in a similar siuation, would be to agree to a private meeting with the family. Otherwise GW Bush looks callous, gutless and disconnected from the suffering his decisions are causing to his electorate.

Even a calous calculating move to meet with the parents of dead soldiers who still loudly and fervently support the president would be better for Bush than the current scenario...
 
 
grant
12:56 / 18.08.05
Sheehan, sleaze. If Cindy Sherman met W, it'd be different.

Has anyone seen photos of the protests/counterprotests outside the ranch? Or any of the widespread local vigils? I don't think MoveOn.org's influence in this whole thing should be overlooked -- they're organizing the local vigils, and guaranteeing that lots of local newspapers have an angle to mention Sheehan's thing outside the ranch.
 
 
sleazenation
13:20 / 18.08.05
Ooooops, my mistake. A Bush/Sherman meet would be more of a photo-op...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:13 / 18.08.05
NY Times article recently on the mood in America looking increasingly anti-Republican, thanks to Cindy Sheehan and other Americans looking at what Bush has given us:

Bad Iraq War News Worries Some in G.O.P. on '06 Vote
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
NYTimes

WASHINGTON, Aug. 17 - A stream of bad news out of Iraq, echoed at home by polls that show growing impatience with the war and rising disapproval of President Bush's Iraq policies, is stirring political concern in Republican circles, party officials said Wednesday.

Some said that the perception that the war was faltering was providing a rallying point for dispirited Democrats and could pose problems for Republicans in the Congressional elections next year.

Republicans said a convergence of events - including the protests inspired by the mother of a slain American soldier outside Mr. Bush's ranch in Texas, the missed deadline to draft an Iraqi Constitution and the spike in casualties among reservists - was creating what they said could be a significant and lasting shift in public attitude against the war.

The Republicans described that shift as particularly worrisome, occurring 14 months before the midterm elections. As further evidence, they pointed to a special election in Ohio two weeks ago, where a Democratic marine veteran from Iraq who criticized the invasion decision came close to winning in a district that should have easily produced a Republican victory.

"There is just no enthusiasm for this war," said Representative John J. Duncan Jr., a Tennessee Republican who opposes the war. "Nobody is happy about it. It certainly is not going to help Republican candidates, I can tell you that much."

Representative Wayne T. Gilchrest, a Maryland Republican who originally supported the war but has since turned against it, said he had encountered "a lot of Republicans grousing about the situation as a whole and how they have to respond to a lot of questions back home."

"I have been to a lot of funerals," Mr. Gilchrest said.

The concern has grown particularly acute as lawmakers have returned home for a Congressional recess this month. Several have seen first-hand how communities are affected by the deaths of a group of local reservists.

In Pennsylvania, Bob Casey Jr., a Democratic challenger to Rick Santorum, the No. 3 Republican in the Senate, attacked Mr. Santorum on Wednesday for failing to question the management of the war. Mr. Casey said the issue would be a major one in what is quite likely to be one of the most closely watched Senate races next year.

Republicans said they were losing hope that the United States would be effectively out of Iraq - or at least that casualties would stop filling the evening news programs - by the time the Congressional campaigns begin in earnest. Mr. Bush recently declined to set any timetable for withdrawing United States troops.

Grover Norquist, a conservative activist with close ties to the White House and Mr. Bush's senior adviser, Karl Rove, said: "If Iraq is in the rearview mirror in the '06 election, the Republicans will do fine. But if it's still in the windshield, there are problems."

Given the speed with which public opinion has shifted over the course of the war and the size of the Republican majority in the Senate and House, no one has gone so far as to suggest that war policy could return Democrats to power in the House or the Senate.

Representative Thomas M. Reynolds of New York, chairman of the Republican Congressional campaign committee, said he believed that the war would fade as an issue by next year and that even if it did not the elections would, as typically the case, be decided by local issues.

"I'm not concerned," Mr. Reynolds said. "Fifteen months away is a long time, and I don't see it. It's going to get back to the important issues of what's going on in the district. When it gets down to candidates, it's what's going on in the street that matters."

Some Republicans suggested that the White House was not handling the issue adroitly, saying its insistence that the war was going well was counterproductive.

"Any effort to explain Iraq as 'We are on track and making progress' is nonsense," Newt Gingrich, a Republican who is a former House speaker, said. "The left has a constant drumbeat that this is Vietnam and a bottomless pit. The daily and weekly casualties leave people feeling that things aren't going well."

Republicans, Mr. Gingrich said, should make the case for "blood, sweat and toil" as part of a much larger war against "the irreconcilable wing of Islam."

Over the considerably longer term, the Iraqi turmoil raises a possibility that the war could again help shape a presidential nominating contest. Mike Murphy, a Republican consultant with ties to two potential presidential candidates for 2008, Senator John McCain of Arizona and Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, predicted that there would be a Republican equivalent of Howard Dean, a candidate opposing the war. He also predicted that such a candidate would not succeed.

Pollsters and political analysts pointed to basic opinion shifts that accounted for the political change. Daniel Yankelovich, a pollster who has been studying American attitudes on foreign affairs, said: "I think what's changed over the last year is the assumption that Iraq would make us safer from terrorists to wondering if that actually is the case. And maybe it's the opposite."

Richard A. Viguerie, a veteran conservative direct-mail consultant, said Mr. Bush "turned the volume up on his megaphone about as high as it could go to try to tie the war in Iraq to the war on terrorism" last year, and he argued that the White House could no longer do that.

"I just don't think it washes after all these years," Mr. Viguerie said.

The other changing factor is the continued drop in Mr. Bush's job-approval rating that could make him less welcome on the campaign trail.

"If this continues to drag down Bush's approval ratings, Republican candidates will be running with Bush as baggage, not as an asset," Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center, said. "Should his numbers go much lower, he is going to be a problem for Republican candidates in 2006."

The near success in Ohio by Democrats was achieved after the party had enlisted an Iraq veteran, Paul L. Hackett, who nearly defeated Jean Schmidt.

The chairman of the Democratic Congressional campaign committee, Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, said he was talking to four or five other Iraq veterans to run in open seats or against weak Republican incumbents.

The chairman of the Senate Democratic campaign committee, Charles E. Schumer of New York, said, "There is no question that the Iraq war, without any light at the end of the tunnel apparent to the American people, is becoming more and more a ball and chain rapidly weighing down the administration."

Mr. Schumer, reflecting continued Democratic nervousness at being portrayed as disrespectful of troops, added, "I have been more supportive of the president's war on terror than many Democrats."

This week in Rhode Island, Secretary of State Matthew A. Brown, a Democratic challenger to Senator Lincoln Chafee next year, called on Mr. Bush to set a six-month deadline to bring American troops home from Iraq.

"You owe it to the American people to get this job done and bring our men and women home to their families," Mr. Brown said on Wednesday.

Mr. Chafee's spokesman, Stephen Hourahan, responded by noting that Mr. Chafee had voted against the war, though he said he did not know whether Mr. Chafee would support the type of deadline urged by Mr. Brown.

In Pennsylvania, Mr. Casey, the prospective challenger to Mr. Santorum, said he would press the incumbent on why he had not taken a lead in raising questions about the war.

"Most people want to know what is the situation with training the Iraqi forces?" Mr. Casey said. "Where are we? Where are we with getting armor to our troops?"

Mr. Santorum's spokesman, Robert Traynham, said Mr. Santorum would not be hurt by supporting the war.

Mr. Traynham read a statement from Mr. Santorum that said, "Doing what is best for this country is always good politics in terms of protecting us from evil dictators such as Saddam Hussein."

Even apart from these problems, the party of the president in power traditionally loses seats in the midterm election of a second term.

"It's tough," Mr. Murphy, the consultant, said. "The press will try to make Iraq the cause of whatever historical problems we would normally have in an off-year election."

Representative Walter B. Jones, a North Carolina Republican who initially supported the war but has begun calling for a pullout, said, "If your poll numbers are dropping over an issue, and this issue being the war, than obviously there is a message there - no question about it."

"If we are having this conversation a year from now," Mr. Jones added, "the chances are extremely good that this will be unfavorable" for the Republicans.
-------------------------------------------------------
 
 
ibis the being
19:37 / 18.08.05
The Boston Globe today had this article on the vigils supporting Sheehan and her cause.

The number of hastily organized protests across the state and the country -- more than 50,000 registered for 1,627 vigils across the United States, the political action group Moveon.org said on its website -- showed a new depth of feeling against the war that has coalesced around Cindy Sheehan and her protest in Crawford, Texas, organizers said.

In Cambridge alone, five separate vigils were scheduled for last night. In some cases, the gatherings were intimate, no more than extended groups of friends gathering outside an apartment, but many were large and were held in public spaces.

In Somerville, about 250 people attended a gathering called ''Davis Square Supports Cindy Sheehan," the 48-year-old mother of Army Specialist Casey Sheehan, who died last year in Sadr City, Iraq. Many held candles, and one protester held a sign that read: ''Honk if the War Makes You Sick."

At least 10 passing motorists honked their horns, but one man leaned out of his car window and yelled, ''The terrorists are going to get you next!"

Protesters said the rapid and enthusiastic response to the call for vigils this week indicated that Sheehan's protest at Bush's ranch has struck a chord with opponents of the Iraq war.

''I think she has really inspired people with the idea that one person can make a difference," said Rose Gonzalez, 30, of Somerville, who attended the Davis Square protest with her 2-month-old son, Marcos, in a baby sling across her chest and her 2-year-old daughter, Talia, alongside.

''People think, 'Wow, it is OK to speak up about this,' " she said.


I think that those of you observing from the UK should try not to underestimate Sheehan's potential to turn the tides among everyday US citizens... as we saw in earlier antiwar demonstrations, UK citizens have been more active in protests, but in contrast, ANY mobilization over here in the land of inertia is noteworthy and exciting.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
21:41 / 18.08.05
I totally like the idea of this woman camping right in front of W's property. That rocks.

I spoke to a few soldiers about Sheehan and most of them had the same thing to say, that her son was a soldier and knew the risks. Which I can understand. I was all set to join the marine corps straight out of high school until I realized I'd be fighting and killing because someone else was telling me too, which finally struck me as the most idiotic thing I could do. Nothing, not even the discipline the military offered, was worth it. Apparently her son thought otherwise and was killed for it. So I have a lot of sympathy for her, for watching the fool who took her son into war fuck shit up even worse; not so much for her son, who signed up knowing the risks of being led by a dumbass.

I'm wondering how long she can keep it up. After he leaves, and hasn't spoke to her in person, is she planning on staying in Texas? Or will she head out to D.C.?

There's really no upside to any of this, is there?

What, to the war? Uh, no. There usually isn't much in the best of circumstances. Currently, if the U.S. stays, people die. If the U.S. leaves, it sends the message "If you want the U.S. to do something, kill a lot of innocents until they do it". At least there's someone for people to point the finger at for getting the U.S. into this mess. I'm sure you know the phrase "Life is a comdedy to those who think, and a tragedy to those who feel". If you're willing to disconnect yourself, then the war's kinda funny. Dunno if that helps...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:11 / 18.08.05
I'm wondering how long she can keep it up.

Well Brian Haw's been outside British parliament since June 2001 and I suspect the weather is far better for Cindy Sheehan so I guess the answer to that is that she'll last until her willpower gives.

There's something about people who go and camp in this way, they just don't stop until they feel their job is done. I'd be very surprised if she moved anytime soon.
 
 
grant
02:16 / 19.08.05
Actually, she left today to go home and take care of her sick mother.

Which strikes me as a really good way to maintain the moral high ground -- it sends just the right message about priorities & family values. (Which is another way of saying, if she had to leave for anything, this is a good thing for that to be.)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
02:48 / 19.08.05
Well that does sound like a good reason.
 
 
ibis the being
11:43 / 19.08.05
Her original plan was to stay in Crawford until August 31 when Bush goes back to the White House. Then she planned to set up a 24/7 vigil as close to the WH as possible, with rotating shifts of volunteers, until they bring the troops home. I imagine the plan is only slightly modified by her mother's illness - she wants to return as soon as possible, and I'm sure the other protestors will keep things going until then.
 
 
Cherielabombe
20:11 / 24.08.05
I think it's in a way good that Cindy had to leave for a little bit. It shows that the movement is now bigger than her.

But anyway, looks like she's coming back today. Yay! Go Cindy!
 
 
Mister Snee
05:45 / 25.08.05
I love this lady.

I'm watching this closely, gentlemen. This lady could be Jesus Christ himself and we wouldn't know it because he's a lady now.

Now that is gender-bending
 
 
FinderWolf
19:56 / 26.08.05
well, she's got W. where she wants him - he'll never have a meeting with her because she'd cry and get mad at him and accuse him of pointlessly killing her son, and we all know his handlers would never allow that scene to take place.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:57 / 26.08.05
what's odd is that Bush has met with SOME relatives and families of war dead recently - apparently only the ones that like him and think the war is justified (and therefore won't put up a fuss, will tell him they're so glad he goes with Jesus, etc.). Very bizarre.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:35 / 26.08.05
Bizarre? Sounds like basic PR to me.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
18:42 / 27.08.05
Fucking shit. I'm sitting in the cafetaria at work (they always keep the tv on CNN) and a 30 second Sheehan commercial comes up where she's talking shit (justified shit) about George Bush. Everyone in the room was silent. My 1st thought was "Ooooooh, CNN's gonna get in trouble". Completely unexpected. It's just a close up on her and her recounting her grievances. The false reasons for war, how many more Americans have to die, and that type of thing. Very shocking, and the commercial itself is really jarring in it's simplicity (just the closeup and her speaking for 30 seconds, no background music or anything else).
 
 
w1rebaby
19:32 / 27.08.05
Was it this one?
 
 
Cherielabombe
08:05 / 28.08.05
Fridge, as far as I know that is the ad airing in Crawford. Of course Mr. Denfield can confirm when he gets back to us. I understand there is also a counter-ad running in Crawford as well.

I would just like to add my 2 cents in terms of the families that Bush did meet with this past week. Now, I know that Cindy Sheehan met Bush before, but I believe he met her before she had become fully involved in the anti-war movement. It's quite interesting the clear message he is sending out by doing that, which is: while your loved ones may go to Iraq, and die for their country, only if they are the right type of family (i.e., pro-war, pro Bush), will Bush meet with you. If you question his policies, or the war, even if your loved ones have died in Iraq, Bush will not meet with you. And I personally find that jus so absolutely disgusting. Does everything, even consoling someone in their grief, have to eventually come down to politics?

I also find it equally disgusting that the Bush administration went out of their way to find another, pro-war, pro Bush mother with children serving in Iraq to trot out and mention at his speech earlier this week. Now, the conservative press in America says that Cindy is using her son to further her political agenda. But Cindy didn't go out of her way to have her son die so she could bring him up in anti-war speeches. Again, if you have the 'right' kind of beliefs, the Bush administration will listen to you. Otherwise, you will be ignored and, if you're a real troublemaker, slimed.
 
 
sleazenation
09:18 / 28.08.05
Vaguely related story that made me smile "US Army Recruiters terrified of anti-war grannies" story here...

Some anti-war grannies have taken to regularly protesting outside an army recruitment centre. Then they changed tactics and went into the centre to 'voulenteer' to take the place of the nations children and grandchildren... they were asked to leave and, eventually did.

The Grannies were later charged with trespass, which seems to have been a bit of a miscalculation, if it was an attempt at intimidation, it failed and the charges have now been dropped.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:02 / 28.08.05
After posting on the site that fridge linked to above and including my blog by accident- I thought I'd wiped it off the form but apparently not, I recieved this delightful email:

You ignorant slut! We don't care about what you limeys have to say here in America. You women have far to many rights over there and frankly that is what the main problem is in this world. Why don't you just shut your ugly, smelly pussy up.
John
PS: That's the only thing you women are good for. Pussy! Just don't have one as smelly as yours!


Obviously it was so ludicrous that I found it quite funny. Advised him to look for a psychoanalyst's number in the phone book and told him that the world would be very happy when he stepped out of the closet (I can only assume since his blatant distate of female genitalia is so prevalent in his email). Anyway if anyone would like John's email address to explain why he's ignorant I'd be happy to provide it, just pm me! I think he could really do with an explanation of the similarity between American and British women's rights from an American woman... I also have a lot of gmail invites if anyone needs one.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
23:19 / 28.08.05
John's use of the word "frankly" makes me laugh.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:37 / 29.08.05
Was Cindy anti-war before her son got killed? I've been looking up a few articles but my fu must be really weak at the moment because I just can't find it and should.
 
 
ibis the being
20:32 / 29.08.05
I'm not sure if she was anti-war but as I recall she's said that her son was not in favor of the war when he went but felt a sense of loyalty to fight alongside his fellow soldiers.

Now, I know that Cindy Sheehan met Bush before, but I believe he met her before she had become fully involved in the anti-war movement.

I heard her talking about that meeting on NPR about a month ago, and what she said was that Bush wanted to babble on about patriotism and support-the-troops but pointedly ignored and/or shut them up whenever they tried to talk about their children specifically. She said he refused to look at her son's photograph and would change the subject every time she mentioned Casey's name. Today she was on NPR again briefly and mentioned that prior meeting, saying, "[Bush] wanted to act like he was at a tea party."

It's quite interesting the clear message he is sending out by doing that, which is: while your loved ones may go to Iraq, and die for their country, only if they are the right type of family (i.e., pro-war, pro Bush), will Bush meet with you. If you question his policies, or the war, even if your loved ones have died in Iraq, Bush will not meet with you.

This has been a GW tactic from Day One. While he was campaigning, the crowds of "local supporters" were always carefully chosen, known Bush loyalists, so that he could be sure to avoid any unsavory questions from the crowd. I'm not sure if it's so much a question of "the right kind" (although that is the effect produced), as keeping up this carefully scripted & choreographed theater that his administration relies on.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:32 / 28.09.05
Cindy Sheehan just met McCain and criticized him:

-------------------------------------------------------
from USA Today:

WASHINGTON (Sept. 28) - Peace mom Cindy Sheehan didn't change her opposition to the war in Iraq after meeting Tuesday with one of its supporters, Sen. John McCain, a Vietnam veteran whom she called "a warmonger."

Sheehan thanked McCain for meeting with her, but she came away disappointed.

"He tried to tell us what George Bush would have said," Sheehan, who protested at the president's Texas home over the summer, told reporters. "I don't believe he believes what he was telling me."

McCain, R-Ariz., also seemed disappointed in the meeting, which he said had been misrepresented as including some of his constituents. Only one person in her small delegation has ties to the state, and that person no longer lives there.

The two exchanged views about the war, and McCain described the conversation as "a rehash" of opinions already well known. He said he might not have met with Sheehan had he known none of his constituents was in the group.

Although McCain has criticized the handling of the Iraq war, he has supported President Bush's call to stop terrorism abroad before it reaches the U.S. Sheehan, whose son, Casey, died in Iraq last year, has energized the anti-war movement with her call for troops to be brought home.

"He is a warmonger, and I'm not," Sheehan said after meeting with McCain. "I believe this war is not keeping America safer."

"She's entitled to her opinion," McCain said. "We just have fundamental disagreements."

Sheehan's conference with McCain was one of several scheduled this week as part of her campaign to persuade members of Congress to explain the reasons for the war. She spoke before a massive anti-war rally Saturday on the National Mall and was arrested Monday demonstrating in front of the White House.

Sheehan and McCain had met once before, shortly after the funeral of her son. Sheehan said Tuesday that McCain told her then that her son's death was "like his buddies in Vietnam" and that he feared their deaths were "for nothing." McCain, however, denied he made such a statement.

Later, Sheehan cut short her appearance at the University of Maryland, leaving a rally after about 10 minutes.

Karen Pomer, a spokeswoman for Sheehan, said, "She's exhausted and she's not feeling well, but she intends to meet her obligations."
 
 
Slim
03:29 / 30.09.05
I can't wait until Sheehan goes away.
 
 
sleazenation
06:33 / 30.09.05
I can think of a LOT more people I'd rather see 'go away' - people whose actions are actively corrupt or dangerous or a 101 other things instead of simply consisting of voicing some much needed dissent.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:36 / 30.09.05
Go on, Slim, explain why you think she should go away.
 
  

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