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Underground > Radio & Music >

Is Big Beat Dead?

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agent darkbootie

21:34 / 10.08.05

I remember dancing more.

I remember the year 1999 and The Propellerheads "Decksanddrumsandrockandroll." I remember Fatboy Slim and everybody loving a 303. I remember beats so insidious if you didn't start moving either your nervous system imploded or you were just a complete a**hole.

Is so-called "Big Beat" music gone? Is it still breathing on white-label vinyl somewhere? Has it mutated? Has a bastard child taken it's place?

More to the point: Is there anything out there as compulsively dancable? 'Cuz Lordy, I need to dance.

uncle retrospective

21:50 / 10.08.05

I don't know why Big Beat got such a bad name, sure some of it was pure cheese, but what genre of dance music is cheese free?

I don't know what it mutated into, Break Beat? Is certainly has a lot of filthy, filthy base. Hybrid are the kings of it, try either Wide Angle or if you can find it "In the Mix" or Y4K.

00:15 / 11.08.05

I don't know why Big Beat got such a bad name

Probably because at heart it was just hip hop given a new packaging that suspiciously stripped the music of its historic/interesting/troubling/engaging elements (delete as applicable). It's on the rubbish tip and frankly I'm glad.

agent darkbootie

00:48 / 11.08.05

Gee Seth, thanks for crashing the thread just to piss in our cornflakes. Could you e-mail me on the next thread you start? I'd like to stop in just to return the favor.

Lordy, how I love threadcrap.

Anyway... Seth aside... Of course it was cheesey. Almost all dance music has elements of cheese. What got me was how compulsive the beats were.

And no, it didn't strip-mine hip-hop. It strip-mined funk. (Which hip-hop had been strip-mining for years.)

Thanks for the tip, Uncle. I'll dig up some Hybrid.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

02:55 / 11.08.05

Because Hip hop's never strip-mined anything, right?

There was that one Scanty Sandwich track ("because of you") that fucking ruled. I still listen to my MP3 of that. Just perfect big stupid fun.

I also remember a pretty decent one of some fairly minimalist beats around a Chuck D sample that was a nice contrast with the Public Enemy style. That got hammered in the year eleven common room a lot at school.

Fatboy's singles have aged quite badly, with the exception of "Right Here, Right Now" which still sounds like a big, huge thing. "Gangsta Tripin'" had a likability half-life of about two plays, sadly. I really fucking liked it the first time I heard it, too.

Didn't the Chemical Bros have some kind of fringe involvement with the big beat movement at one point?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

02:57 / 11.08.05

Regarding 303s: I think it's fair to say they reached their peak with Shannon's "Let the Music Play" and New Order's "Confusion".

08:03 / 11.08.05

I think big beat began to die a death as soon as it was labelled as such, really. As with a lot of genres, at first the term was thrown out to cover almost anything people wanted it to; basically stuff with, shockingly, a "big beat."

Slowly, this began to solidify into a genre, and then rather than records made without any purpose other than to sound good, people began to design 'big beat' records by formula; pinch of 303 here*, huge break there, insistently catchy vocal sample over the top, repeat ad infinitum.

And that's when things got dull. In my own curmudgeonly opinion. And yes, I'm aware how much this might sound like a rant about how it were all better in my day, and you could leave your door open without Norman Cook popping in and recording a single cutting up a classic Northern Soul sample with a siren and a squelchy acid noise.

At its best, it was pure pop; at its worst, pure crap, I'd say. And there's been plenty of records since which would have been 'big beat' back in the day, but didn't get labelled as such as the genre term fell out of favour. Junior Senior spring to my mind here, though people may disagree.

That's not to say I didn't like some big beat; I did, and still do. The Heavenly records compilation - terribly named - Brit Hop and Amyl House - can still bring back fond memories, for instance.

*Oh, and Electric Lucifer:

Regarding 303s: I think it's fair to say they reached their peak with Shannon's "Let the Music Play" and New Order's "Confusion".

I think it could veer off-topic here, so maybe a 303 thread is required.

But, God, I disagree; how about Hardfloor's Acperience, for instance? Layer upon layer of angry 303s in a bubbling caulron of acid, it made my jaw drop the first time I heard it and still can now...

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:27 / 11.08.05

Gee Seth, thanks for crashing the thread just to piss in our cornflakes. Could you e-mail me on the next thread you start? I'd like to stop in just to return the favor.

Lordy, how I love threadcrap.

Seth disagreed with you, and gave reasons. He answered a question which you asked. That's not threadcrap. I know it's always very upsetting when people disagree with you, but try to rebuff their arguments without a toys-out-of-pram scenario next time, eh?

09:44 / 11.08.05

I have to own to being a Big Beat hater. It came along at the tail end of my raving days - in fact, I think I was out by the time the term had been coined - I made it as far as Trip-Hop.

Why did I drop Trip Hop? Well, to begin with I was getting tired with dancing the night away every weekend. My enthusiasm was waning and it got blamed on the music of the moment (had Trip-Hop come along three years earlier I'm sure I would have been in for the long haul). Secondly, what I had enjoyed about Trip-Hop - the desire to bring a bit of eclecticism to the dance-floor - was on the outs. Big Beat was the culmination of all that - the reduction of the scene to fast breakbeats, and, as such, bored the shit out of me. Add to that years of living in Brighton - a town that's sooooo in love with itself and it's status as the home of !fat beats!, a place where you can't enter a pub without being assailed by the same boring, lazy music policies - and well, it's fair to say that I'm sick and tired of the sound.

As for dancing, well there's still plenty of that to be done, you just need to look for it, and, perhaps, broaden your horizons a bit.

It Came From the Sea fucking rules.

09:47 / 11.08.05

Oh, and, Darkbooty, I suggest you read Seth's posts, they're generally pretty interesting. More interesting than your hissy fit, anyway.

10:23 / 11.08.05

Boboss;

Secondly, what I had enjoyed about Trip-Hop - the desire to bring a bit of eclecticism to the dance-floor - was on the outs. Big Beat was the culmination of all that - the reduction of the scene to fast breakbeats, and, as such, bored the shit out of me.

Kind of what I was getting at in my post above, I suppose... Big Beat as a title did come about when things were getting formulaic.

I'd be interested as what you define as trip-hop too; for me, that was always the Mo Wax/Ninja Tune/ ambient with a breakbeat end of things, but I'm guessing from your post yours is more akin to what I'm defining as early Big Beat - basically the stuff on the Heavenly comp above like early Chemical Brothers, Jon Carter or Jedi Knights?

Or am I just barking up the wrong tree?

By the way, Amazon uses Big Beat as a listing now...

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:25 / 11.08.05

I have to say, I find the electro-house stuff of the past five years or so a lot more compulsively danceable than big beat. But that probably says as much about how I've changed as it does about how music has - at the time of that Propellerheads album, for example, I think I was probably still much more likely to be into that kind of thing than anything that sounded too house.

But I'm not sure we've established quite what we mean by big beat here yet. (Not that genres can ever be defined clearly or separated out cleanly from each other.)

Reassessing Fatboy Slim's output circa his commercial peak is difficult because a) so many of those songs have been overplayed to an extent that few songs could survive, b) he has marred any good name he once had with that terrible 'Slash Dot Dash' or whatever it was called song. Mind you, saw some footage of him playing live and couldn't help admiring his enthusiasm and desire to move the crowd. Still can't imagine ever buying one of his records.

The Chemical Brothers were at one time seen as central to big beat, weren't they? They moved away from that with Surrender (to my mind their best album) but if anything seemed to have moved back in that general direction judging by 'Galvanise'.

Someone, I think possibly gumbitch, described Basement Jaxx as big beat recently - and I can sort of see what he meant while disagreeing with him, if that makes any sense. We're getting into a wider genre here - dance artists who appeal to a specific bunch of people, perhaps people more likely to be into certain other genres. This is tricky to talk about without making crass generalisations, though.

Junior Senior do seem like a very accurate example of a good, recent act whose sound unmistakeably has something in common with what we call big beat. I recommend 'Chicks & Dicks', a celebration of the fact that one of them is gay and one of them is straight, which sounds like a cross between a better 'Rockafeller Skank' and 50s skiffle.

10:28 / 11.08.05

I'm talking about Ninja Tune and Mo Wax primarily. For me the Trip-Hop sound was best encapsulated at the club night That's how it is, the early Wall of Sound dos, and Cold Cut's radio show Solid Steel.

10:37 / 11.08.05

Ah, right. 70 minutes of madness on my part, eh? I'll stop barking now then...

Something that's got me about Big Beat nowadays is how many old rockers have taken to it.

On the second page on that Amazon link, there's an album by Jeff "Hi-Ho Silver Lining" Beck, which is basically him playing over Big Beat stuff; IIRC, and I can't say I investigated too deeply beyond hearing something about it, widdly-widdly-neeow-show-off guitarist Joe Satriani also recorded an album of guitar over Big Beat stuff, and Tommy Lee did some sort of tour where he was playing drums over Big Beat stuff.

Odd, eh?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:58 / 11.08.05

The only thing I really got into from the whole BB was the first Lo-Fidelity AllStars album, which was fucking ace. Never heard the second (or was there a third?) but I saw it quite cheap in Oxfam and if it's still there tomorrow I may pick it up. How To Operate With A Blown Mind is, however, a fucking MENTAL album.

11:00 / 11.08.05

There, now, ya see, the Low Fidelity All Stars pretty much sum up the sound I hate.

Sorry. I really couldn't resist getting that in. I'll behave now.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

13:59 / 11.08.05

Oh, and, Darkbooty, I suggest you read Seth's posts, they're generally pretty interesting. More interesting than your hissy fit, anyway.

Come on, is this really necessary? It's the guy's first thread and someone makes an unqualified attack on the music he likes lasting no more than a few lines. He's new and he snapped back; give the guy a chance.

I'd like to see some qualification of Seth's post: what Big Beat producers and tracks stripminded hip hop? Can that even be considered a justified attack, since dance music and hip hop have always looked to stripmine breaks and samples themselves, often removing historic/interesting/troubling/engaging elements from the tracks in the process?

Tryphena Absent

14:04 / 11.08.05

described Basement Jaxx as big beat recently - and I can sort of see what he meant while disagreeing with him

I think it's more that Basement Jaxx are heavily influenced by Big Beat but they're getting less so, which is probably why I think their newest album is a little bit boring.

The truth is that I just love heavy sound, I find electro-clash a little too broken up and slow to really and truly want to dance to it but it still retains that compulsive style. I found Big Beat far more enticing in that way but I was talking about Big Beat the other day and decided somewhere in the midst of the onversation that it had killed dance music. Fatboy Slim really heralded the end of clubbing in the same way that those boys in their Tottenham shirts emphasised all the worst things about britpop. It's not that Big Beat was specifically introduced to the mainstream (although that raises the question of killing an atmosphere a little bit- simply because alcohol was steadily introduced as the drug of choice and it doesn't combine very well with dancing to, erm, most dance music) but rather that as soon as it was music to listen to instead of dance to it fell over. That hadn't really happened previously (or had it?).

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

14:13 / 11.08.05

I absolutely hate Big Beat. It's like that genre that the Litehouse Family fit into but for the dance music scene. Terrible music & thankfully dead music, which has been generally replaced with the breaks (breakbeat) scene, which at least has a minority of quality artists.
My main issue with Big Beat was the distinct lack of soul or emotion in the sound. I mean christ it the only music scene that i've experienced grown men & women get really angry about.

I'm sure there's some sort of hardcore scientific theory to back up the evil of Big Beat as pure fact. I'll find it in a bit!!

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

14:21 / 11.08.05

I think it's more that Basement Jaxx are heavily influenced by Big Beat but they're getting less so, which is probably why I think their newest album is a little bit boring.

I dunno if I'd agree with that - there's a strong carnival atmosphere to most of their early stuff which is a bit more worldly than big beat, and a heavy electro influence to Rooty.

decided somewhere in the midst of the onversation that it had killed dance music

But I thought that was Chartly, right?

If anything killed clubbing (and it didn't - still plenty of different clubs about to go to) it was probably dissatisfaction with the superclub concept (as well as the underlying elitisim of a lot of club culture) combined with the later shift in youth culture to a stronger (in numbers, I mean - fuck screamo kids) rock culture.

simply because alcohol was steadily introduced as the drug of choice and it doesn't combine very well with dancing to, erm, most dance music) but rather that as soon as it was music to listen to instead of dance to it fell over. That hadn't really happened previously

Well, people have been getting pissed to go dancing ever since music and booze were discovered. I think once you get club music that doesn't require speed or MDMA to keep up with the BPM it's only a matter of time before people want a pint again.

14:28 / 11.08.05

With regard to strip-mining.

Reading the thread, Seth said Big Beat stripped hip-hop of things; that has a different meaning to strip-mining.

As I read those meanings, former suggests Big Beat takes things away from Hip Hop, the latter that it takes from Hip-Hop, funk, Northern Soul etc in the form of samples, usually.

Just clearing that up... carry on.

14:44 / 11.08.05

Not Me Again:

"Something that's got me about Big Beat nowadays is how many old rockers have taken to it.... ...Odd, eh?"

Makes sense to me. Big Beat was/is very r'n'r in spirit - simple, dumb, unpretentious and fun. And being mostly vocal-free and percussion driven it's ideal for guitarists to muck about with.

15:34 / 11.08.05

Oh, and, Darkbooty, I suggest you read Seth's posts, they're generally pretty interesting.

I retract the hissy fit bit. But the above sentence still stands as good advice, methinks.

19:22 / 11.08.05

Where in my post do I mention big beat strip-mining hip hop? Essentially it was hip hop in pretty much all signifiers and methodology: it was the decision to call it something else that made me squirm, as though the tag were designed to distance perception of the music from the connotations that people have with hip hop.

I remember chatting to a lot of DJs at the time and asking why they played music that was labelled the one but not the other. It was the standard money, bitches, and guns dismissal that I invariably got back from them. Jurassic 5, De La Soul and Grandmaster Flash were acceptable to playlist alongside big beat because they were old school and therefore were *good* hip hop (in this case *good* meaning as opposed to *evil* hip hop).

When exactly did I turn into Byron Bitchlaces?

19:39 / 11.08.05

i always thought the big beat sound was just hip hop and house combined.
s'what fatboy fuckface said, anyway.
in the article in which he said it was also claimed that the sound appealed to the student population of the time, in that it was unchallenging and familiar.
hip hop for the friendly samples and pace, and house for the easily matched rhythym.
apparently.
like, easy listening doofs for easily led yoofs.

02:43 / 12.08.05

I think it's more that Basement Jaxx are heavily influenced by Big Beat but they're getting less so

Serious? I'm trying, but I can't really discern any Big Beat influences in the Jaxx at all, especially on the earlier stuff. The Atlantic Jaxx EP's were totally Tony Humphries, with some more Chicago type shit thrown in, and some suitably sun kissed latin inflections. Remedy is eclectic as fuck, borrowing from a tonne of genres - none of which are Big Beat imo; the Jaxx instead came with this south london take on NY soulful house, mixed with some rare groove, ragga and hip hop. And whilst Big Beat also drew from hip hop, it was of the more jump up variety than the r'n'b tinged beats and vocals favoured on Remedy.

Ok, so i can see a few more similarities with Big Beat on Rooty, but i’m sure the Jaxx would balk at the suggestion that there’s a straight up influence in evidence. As Electric L said, its more on an electro vibe, with the usual house stylings and the occasional r’n’b sheen.

I’m pretty ambivalent about Big Beat in general. There was some pretty incendiary dancefloor pyrotechnics going on, which is always good, and some productions were a lot more subtle and intricate than given credit for. But too much of it was just standard issue student union funk, bereft of invention. Not that funk needs to be especially complex, in fact the opposite is true. So yeah, my criticisms of big beat probably aren’t very valid, or coherent; suffice to say i just wasn’t feeling the majority of what i was hearing, and i don’t see Big Beat’s decline as being any great loss.

Goodness Gracious Meme

11:05 / 12.08.05

Will come back with more to say, but my experience of BB is a combination of NMA's and Bobo's.

I remember proto-BB being a breath of fresh air and an exciting development. The Chemical Brothers, for example, are very easy to knock, but things like 'Song of(?)the Siren' sounded incredibly fresh when they first emerged. (and yes, before anyone asks, I was listening to lots of hip-hop at that point. that track takes some hip-hop elements, some Chicago/Kevorkian elements, and other stuff and mixed it into something distinctive.)

But my experience of is like Bobobossboy's, utterly soured by living in the Big Beat Captial of The WorldTM.

Haus of Mystery

12:29 / 12.08.05

There was good and bad. But mostly bad. For about six months I enjoyed some of the 'Big Beat' stuff (the first couple of Skint comps, i seem to recall) but never really went for it big time - same goes for 'Trip Hop'. Always felt it needed vocals...

12:52 / 12.08.05

I loved Big Beat, but hated what it became. As a teenager I was a died-in-the-wool indie kid, and shared the common rockist prejudices of their kind. Big Beat introduced me to the joys of ecstasy and dancing, led me to a wider musical landscape, and I will therefore always view it with affection. However I will readily admit that there was an awful lot of crap produced under its rubric, though at its best it produced some exciting, vibrant sounds.

13:11 / 12.08.05

I can't really discern any Big Beat influences in the Jaxx at all, especially on the earlier stuff.

i reckon they may have infuences in common, but i'd agree that BJ didnt rely on BB for much if any of their sound.

13:45 / 12.08.05

what, really? i don't get this thing that some people have where there's any real difference between basement jackson and fatboy slim. maybe their (la jaqx) albums are totally different to their singles, but having heard the singles, why would you ever buy the album? i don't get it.

listen:

exhibit one - beebadeeibibibibbip bip bang-O!! dur duur duuur

exhibit two - wopwa doowydoowy, wopwadoowydoowy, wopwa doowydoowy fatbwoi trippin! dur durdurdurdur dur dur

you hear it? both the same - both shit shitty-shit-shit shit shit (to the choon of gangsta trippin again)

i liked jsaul kane/depth charge the best i think, the apex of the genre being his track shaolin buddha finger, though i think strictly speaking it was called 'chemical beats' back then.

plus, if anyone thinks bigbeat is dead for everyone should use the search function on this forum to look for the thread on 'photek' (yeah yeah, d'n'b, whatever). a cosmic fireman classic.

14:04 / 12.08.05

i reckon they are different, though.
i dont reckon either of them are any cop, but i reckon they are different.
like, uh, yeah.
romeo is a bit lardchild, as are some other moments, but not in a way that makes me think the BJs owe all that much to the big beat sound.
i guess all music coming after other music is gonna be standing on the shoulders of the previous stuff, but their origins seem a bit different, and they seem to enjoy playing with live stuff a bit more than yer trad big-beater.

do you 'righton kids see a different side to it than us?
was beat boutique full of variety that we missed, perhaps?

14:10 / 12.08.05

Er, Drum and Bass really isn't the same thing as Big Beat and you know it. Stop confusing the issue.

Also, I hate Where's Your Head as much as the next sane human being, but without listening to BJ's albums I'm prepared to give 'em the benefit of the doubt.

You're in naughty mood today.

14:15 / 12.08.05

that said, i guess the sound is more similar to big beat than many others...
it just feels like it has a different vibe behind it.

i am aware, however, that it is entirely possible i am talking what i may refer to some tomorrow soon as 'bollocks'.

14:16 / 12.08.05

photek as big beat has me baffled, i have to admit.
maybe i've been listeing to fotek instead?

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