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They can't say that... but THEY DID! The Greenpeace Bush/Blair advert.

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
09:11 / 27.07.05
I think Nick's referring to the legend at the end, toksik, although it does feel a bit bolted-on. The connection between, for example, oil and climate change isn't made explicit, even thhough it both could and should have been.

Deva: On the plus side, if we're going to be a pack of anything, I quite fancy being a pack of goats. Goats are adaptable and independent creatures, easy to pasture and have really cool eyes. I'm much less happy about being hungry carrion, as to the best of my knowledge that basically means we're zombies.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:21 / 27.07.05
Carrion:



As you can see, he too was not into free speech.
 
 
Lurid Archive
09:30 / 27.07.05
Re: the "pack of goats" thing, I don't have much to add except to say that a quick google tells me it is a herd, tribe or trip of goats. A trip of goats sounds much less menacing, I think.
 
 
Char Aina
09:36 / 27.07.05
I think Nick's referring to the legend at the end, toksik, although it does feel a bit bolted-on.

totally.
i think the ad fails as it does nothing to describe the message they are claiming at the end.
i was responding to the video itself, and i think so wil most folks watching it.
i cant imagine it being emailed to all and sundry with 'force blair to act on climate change' or similar as the subject heading, can you?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:36 / 27.07.05
Also, goats are generally pretty solitary creatures, I think. Certainly, the job of a goatherd is very different to that of a shepherd.

I'm thinking of pulling the more fulsome bits of this out for a thread in Head Shop on political correctness, if only because in the future it might be handy to point at to save the discussion..
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:41 / 27.07.05
But seriously...

paranoidwriter: However, as Flyboy failed to offer any opinion of his own on of PC (etc) or the issues surrounding the term, or even any indication of such, for me giving him a definition was made that much harder than it already is.

Political correctness is a myth. It is a pejorative term used to give the impression that people who act or speak out against racism, sexism, homophobia, or class snobbery a) have the whip hand, and b) are censorious, unreasonable, petty, extremist killjoys. It is a sophisticated linguistic weapon in the arsenal of newspapers, politicians and other propagandists. Many purported examples of political correctness turn out upon investigation to either be entirely reasonable (unless one favours sexism, racism, etc) or apocryphal.

As Haus says:

There is in fact no central force for political correctness, nor any complete and coherent definition. It exists conceptually as a nebulous but vast conspiracy which can be blamed for any number of things that people would like to do not being entirely acceptable. It is surprising, however, just how many things that appear to be crushed under the hand of this numinous force are actually not only still done, but done all the time.

toksik: it was kinda pointless, but then i wasnt even sure why fly asked for it in the first place.
in thread, anyway.
next time you want someone to jump through hoops, mr boy, could it be done by PM?


paranoidwriter had responded to criticisms of the advert in question by stating we may be dangerously close to PC Hell on this one. In addition to the above, in my experience 'political correctness' is a term which is usually employed in a deeply poorly thought-out way* - otherwise, why would so many people who identify as generally being liberal, left-leaning, tolerant, etc, use such a tool of reactionaries so freely? It has therefore become my policy to ask anyone who uses the term what they mean by it, in the hope that it will cause them to rethink the term, amongst other things, and because one day, somebody may give me a decent answer. Hasn't happened yet, though. I wasn't asking just for sport, as you seem to imply, but I won't hold that against you as the tone of my post may have read as genuine rather than sarcastic gleeful enthusiasm.

(*Specifically, it relies on unthinking acceptance of certain ideas commonly propagated through the media, for example the idea that when the media accuse someone of "playing the race card" as paranoidwriter refers to, the media can be trusted to have impartially and accurately identified an instance in which someone has claimed racism exists where it does not...)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:45 / 27.07.05
Finally, if we're going to talk about who has been behaving badly in this thread, and whether paranoidwriter deserves the responses that have been given to hir, I would like some clarification of what the following was meant to mean or convey.

paranoidwriter: And as my friend once wrote:

"Well so much for your famous ambivalence;
Who's going home in a fucking ambulance?"

He has a point, don't you think, Haus?


PS Haus, please do start said Head Shop thread, we've had one before but I can never find it - will try again though.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:05 / 27.07.05
You know that bit in 'Nightmare on Elm St 4', where these kids are trying to escape Freddy, and they get in a van and drive off, but before they realise it, they're back exactly where they were before, and then this happens again and again and again....?

S'a bit like Barbelith innit?
 
 
Char Aina
10:08 / 27.07.05
It has therefore become my policy to ask anyone who uses the term what they mean by it, in the hope that it will cause them to rethink the term

fair enough.
could you address why it was done in thread and not by PM?
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:10 / 27.07.05
OK, seriously, I kinda know what toksik means when he talks about getting pw to jump through hoops.

That is, people who post about political correctness gone mad usually haven't thought it through very thouroughly and often aren't the most practiced of posters. Asking someone like pw to explain political correctness comes across as a familiar gambit with a familiar outcome. Its fair, in a sense, but it isn't very kind. It might be useful, in getting people to reflect a little before hitting "post", to have something in the wiki about it - I like Flyboy's paragraph about it a lot. Thoughts?

Oh, and do start a headshop thread on it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:18 / 27.07.05
Well, I think the prblem with having a thing in the Wiki is that it's a bit prescriptive. I'd rather have the thread, which I'll start later today. I don't think that asking someone to explain their terms is unreasonable, though, as a general principle. Again, if we start soft-balling people because we don't think they're bright enough to deal with questions we're making potentially unfair assumptions. However, I think having a thread where political correctness as a term can be discussed might be easier than , as MacGuyver says, essentially having the same problem pop up over and over again...

I'd be curious as to the intention of paranoidwriter, and indeed paranoidwriter's friend, on that couplet also. Again, it mainly just seems inexplicable.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:26 / 27.07.05
could you address why it was done in thread and not by PM?

Er, because paranoidwriter made the comment in a thread, rather than PMing me?
 
 
Char Aina
10:36 / 27.07.05
oh, sure.
but clarification of his point and the subsequent development of hir views could be done more effectively without the full glare of the barbelith cameras, dont you think?
i meant to suggest that your approach seems counter productive to your intent, and that PMs might be a more effective way.
saves face, innit.
i have had countless clarification moments off thread with loads of posters and find it quite valuable.

the public nature of the query suggests to me(and i appreciate i may be wrong) that you wish to show others the folly of using the term.
making a public example, kinda.
it also adds to threadrot, something folks round here seem to dislike more than most.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:39 / 27.07.05
I finally remembered to watch the damn ad the other day and was rather bemused with it. I don't think it's homophobic or transphobic or sexworkerphobic it's just... not very good. I think part of the problem may be the substitution of the oilpump for the penis, I think the point would have been better made if it was the Bush puppet really was ejaculating oil or if the Blair puppet wasn't dressed up as a prostitute and they were perhaps somewhere corporate, like a boardroom.

Looks suspiciously like viral marketing too, I can't see a link to this from the main Greenpeace site, is this another 'Volkswagen suicide-bomber' ad?
 
 
Quantum
10:53 / 27.07.05
a thread in Head Shop on political correctness

Heh, you could easily crib it together from old threads with no need for additional posts. Maybe have a generic Leaptopian response thread too, and 'what are ad hominem attacks?' and such. I'm astonished it's not already been done.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:59 / 27.07.05
Toksik: An understanding of what ParanoidWriter meant by "PC Hell", as it was identified as an element in his critique of the advertisement, seems to me to be perfectly congruent with the aims of the discussion. I think you probably ought to think about this one a bit more carefully. It seems, again, like you are practising attrition for the sake of not conceding a point. Maybe if everyone agrees to disagree?

It is a shame that the discussion on "PC Hell" could not then have been funnelled into another thread, which is why I think a resource thread in the Head Shop would be a good idea, and why I will start on based on the discussion in this thread.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:12 / 27.07.05
Quants: Deva proposed a sort of Head Shop conceptual FAQ a while back, but I think it foundered. There was, I think, a thread on PC, but it may have been boardquaked.
 
 
Quantum
13:11 / 27.07.05
I assume it was quaked or it would have been referenced a billion times by now, nyet? As in (newb)'PC's gone maaad', (Haus)'sigh- see *this thread*...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:14 / 27.07.05
Well, I *did* give linky... nobody seemed to notice.
 
 
Quantum
13:47 / 27.07.05
the wikipedia link and the essay on PC? Handy for research but a littl opaque for the average enraged anti-censorship poster replying to you I think.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:50 / 27.07.05
No - they were linked by the enraged anti-censorship etc. I linked to an exchange between astrojaxc (I think) and myself in the "Black/Coloured" thread in the Head Shop, which covered off much of this stuff...
 
 
Quantum
13:57 / 27.07.05
Ah yes, my congenital idiocy forced me to misread the post order. My apologies.
 
  

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