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Extras! (spoliers!)

 
  

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Future Perfect
13:37 / 26.09.06
The theme tune to "When the Whistle Blows" is cracking isn't it? I imagine I'll be humming it a lot most afternoons at work after about 3pm.

It's also very reminiscent of the "Only Fools and Horses" theme tune, I keep on expecting it to na na na naa-naa, na na na na na at some stage.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:31 / 26.09.06
It's certainly an interesting defence.

I like that he is both the heroic straight man *and* being the butt of jokes. That feels quite realistic to me. Clown and Straight Man are just constructs that have become the mainstay of sketch comedy, but real life isn’t like that, is it? Most people are both, aren’t they? I think this is something that Gervais and Merchant are going for. (Personally, I do think the same is true of Brent.)
Do you know what I mean? Why does a character like that not work for you in a sitcom? Is it a complexity thing? Do sitcoms need an interplay of one-note characters to succeed?


I tried to make the distinction above between complexity and inconsistency. I think many of us exhibit inconsistent behaviour in our daily lives. However, inconsistency in a fictional character, I think, threatens to make the character seem incoherent rather than complex.

When I wrote my post I had in mind half-remembered passages from E.M. Forster's book "Aspects of the Novel". I have now looked again at his section on "round characters" and he defines them as "capable of surprising in a convincing way."

I think Brent is in this category, because he's not just the horrific, embarrassing Boss From Hell: he also seems tragic and endearing, and we can glimpse his sadness and feel for him at times.

There's another book that I don't have here, which follows up on Forster's ideas ~I think it is Lennard J Davis' "Resisting the Novel". Davis suggests (as I remember) something else along the lines I was thinking above ~ that while we can accept real-life people as having inconsistencies, there is a limit to which this works in fiction. I think he gives the example that if Emma Bovary, who is a complex and round character, was also given a hobby of studying ancient pottery, it would be overkill and actually work to undermine our sense of her as a real character, rather than deepen it and help us think of her as complex.

There are a lot of things about my personality that don't fit together. I'm sure the same is true of you. But if someone was writing us as characters, I think they would have to simplify, or paradoxically those characters wouldn't seem "realistic".


Equally, a real half-hour in someone's life would not usually make a great sit-com.


We got pretty much that in several episodes of The Royale Family? Not real enough, or not a great sit-com?


Well, no, I'd say those are very much characters too. If you analysed it, you could maybe find one or two character notes for Nana, a couple of key traits for Anthony, more for Barbara. But I'd say they are more consistent than Millman, who just doesn't hang together for me.

I can't really believe that someone who sits appalled at his friends as they type "BOOBS" into a calculator (ie. an island of sense and sensitivity in an immature world) is the same person who tells a friend to pretend she's an autograph hunter (ie. someone absurd, ludicrously vain, involved in hopelessly pathetic stunts).

Within the half-hour that I experience Millman every week (even within the series as a whole) I don't really get a strong sense of who he is, apart from a barely-disguised Gervais. He doesn't seem to have any really clear and coherent character traits ~ he's worried about his reputation but continually sells out or compromises, he's ambitious, competitive, a ready liar and deceiver, he's concerned about his artistic integrity but also desperate for success, he feels superior to his friends but still hangs around with them, he's the sensible one in his group but also lives a kind of self-deluding fantasy where he's an entertainer like Bowie.

Writing those down, I admit it sounds like an interesting mix ~ but I hope you see what I mean in that I can't grasp who Millman is. To you, it seems, that's an interesting realism. I am less ready to believe Gervais actually knows what he's doing with the character and isn't just trying to put himself in the script, but combining it with Brent-style scenes which require him to be the butt of the humour and a quite different type of figure, inconsistent with other scenes in the same episode.
 
 
Smoothly
16:19 / 26.09.06
I think you characterise him pretty well there, wonderstarr. That’s pretty much who I think Millman is. I’m not really sure where we disagree. I don’t think he’s hobbled with extraneous, bolt-on qualities, but I suppose there are inconsistencies there in the sense of there being contradictions. But that makes him, for me, rather than ruins him.

I can't really believe that someone who sits appalled at his friends as they type "BOOBS" into a calculator (ie. an island of sense and sensitivity in an immature world) is the same person who tells a friend to pretend she's an autograph hunter (ie. someone absurd, ludicrously vain, involved in hopelessly pathetic stunts).

I just dunno. I kinda think that yes, this is exactly what people are like. I just don’t think in real life there are people who are islands of sense and sensitivity and people who are absurd, vain etc. People tend to be both, don’t they? And the people who are most keen to appear to be one thing are most plagued by manifestations of the opposite. People compensate for the things they don’t like about themselves.
I agree that the autograph set-up was a bit far-fetched (although it’s not, like, unheard of for people in showbiz to resort to comparable tactics), but can you not think of things you’ve done that now make you cringe? Something that feels absolutely antithetical to the person you ‘are’, and the things you stand for? I think Extras is about those things – about vanity, fantasy, affectation, contradiction, compromise, failure and those times that you just want the earth to swallow you up.

I think Millman is a thinly disguised Gervais (and I think he’s admitted to this in interviews). It’s true that he’s not a traditional sitcom character, but Extras is not a traditional sitcom. Horses for courses maybe, but Millman feels more ‘real’ to me than Brent.

Maybe you, wonderstarr, are just lucky enough not to be enough like Millman to like Millman.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
17:18 / 26.09.06
The second episode was probably the worst episode of extras so far. It was unbelievable in a boring way (Bowie sings in pub, gets entire pub to join in!), the jokes that worked were genius, but some sold the characters out for a cheap laugh (another "how stupid is maggie joke?", if she was that stupid Millman would never be mates with her) and if stephen merchant needs to make the agent more than a one trick pony.

Barry, however, is still wonderful.

It felt more like a straight sitcom. Maybe Gervais has made the leap to true genius, and decided to mock the bbc for making broard comedys using the trojan horse of another broad comedy.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:50 / 29.09.06
can you not think of things you’ve done that now make you cringe? Something that feels absolutely antithetical to the person you ‘are’, and the things you stand for? I think Extras is about those things – about vanity, fantasy, affectation, contradiction, compromise, failure and those times that you just want the earth to swallow you up.

Maybe you, wonderstarr, are just lucky enough not to be enough like Millman to like Millman.


Sure, I've done embarrassing things, but I think those are the result of who I "am" ~ something consistent and integral to my personality ~ leading me there. I don't think those moments are a case of me doing something antithetical to who I consider I am. If Millman gets into horribly embarrassing situations because of something we can see as key to his character, I'm fine with that: it's just that most of the time he seems the "sensible" one, rising above it all, dourly miserable about (but accepting of) his own failures, and yet then there are times when he pulls an implausible vanity-stunt like getting his daft friend to pretend to ask for his autograph. (I know I keep citing that one example.)

I agree, based on 2.3, that Extras is, quite intriguingly, becoming very much like a conventional sit-com: indeed, that it's not very far from When The Whistle Blows.

I already suggested that WTWB is in essence about Dawn and Tim's situation in The Office ("whatever happened to my dreams, is this the life I chose"), grinding through the day with a supposedly-awful boss.

However, from the WTWB scenes we've been shown, Millman's boss character (Ray?)is actually in the same role as Millman himself ~ explaining jokes and correcting or cringing at the prejudices of his stupid friends. The gag about "cox" isn't so far removed from something Millman would have to long-sufferingly explain to Maggie, and in the Japanese episode it was the other employees who put on the racist skit, while Ray was appalled. Similarly, in episode 3 it's Darren who insults Warrick Davis and Andy who has to try desperately to correct him.

The WTWB scene ended in episode 3 with a discussion of pirhanas that wouldn't actually have been out of place either in Extras or The Office (or perhaps one of Gervais' podcasts) ~ it wasn't corny, scripted sit-com material, it was more the pub-chat trivia that so much of Gervais material so far resembles.

So I don't know if this is intentional, but WTWB isn't seeming so awful as a comedy (I could watch more of it every week) and Extras is becoming (or becoming apparent as) more of a conventional sit-com. The whole set-up of dreadful misunderstanding about the boy with Down's Syndrome seemed very standard sit-com structure to me ~ except for the media parodies and cameos, which as Haus suggested are really just a matter of well-placed phonecalls and calling in favours.

You do have to worry perhaps what's going on if Matthew Wright is one of Gervais' mates. Maybe it was pitched to Wright as a gleeful attack on "political correctness".
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
10:03 / 29.09.06
The "Ching-Chong-China Man" skit seems to be a reference from series one, episode 1/2 (depending on whether you saw it on TV or DVD), the Ben Stiller episode, with Maggie's "All Orientals look the same" school yard rhyme.

When watching When the Whistle Blows, you could imagine that, baring the horrible broard comedy, that filmed in the office Docu style with realsitic characters, it would be the Office. Maybe Gervais is saying "There but by the grace of God go I", the BBC not being the hotbed of creativity that they like to suggest with about three of there show, but a cheap place to create filler for the other 165 hours of TV they produce a week.
 
 
camofleur
10:30 / 29.09.06
I agree that the show is a great exercise in exposing the multi-faceted and contradictory elements of Andy's personality. It's highlighting the trappings and dangers that come when individuals yearn for status, power and superiority. It also shows how fame can twist and distort even the most sincere intentions; we know that Andy can be perceptive and astute but whenever the bright lights of fame shine in his face, his vision is clouded by a desire for notoriety. This is what ultimately forces him to socialise with the people he desperately wanted to disassociate himself from in the pub at the beginning of the last episode.

Even though I don't find it as laugh-out-loud funny as The Office, I find it more intriguing because of the frequent occasions when it manages to transcend comedy and become a commentary on the dangers of modern "grab it all" culture.
 
 
future101
09:32 / 06.10.06
I'm worried by my dissapointment in the lack of the WTWB theme tune this week... I was so hoping that Chris Martin's cameo on the show was going to lead to a Coldplay-esque rendition of the theme tune but no such joy.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:53 / 06.10.06
He did do the end credits song, though.

While I enjoyed last night, I almost feel the show is reaching saturation point in terms of its self-referentiality (cameos in a sit-com, within a sit-com with cameos), and it's interesting to note the way it's really changed since series 1. In fact, series 1 was consistent in its formula ~ Andy and Maggie are extras, and every week we will open with a clip from the film/programme they're working on, and then meet a guest star playing up to or against their persona ~ while series 2 has really shifted the territory every single week. It doesn't follow any kind of formula anymore and doesn't have much in common even with the first series.

In a way, that's certainly ambitious and admirable, but it makes the show hard to get to grips with, and it's this constant upping of the ante that makes me feel it might combust upon itself or reach a point it can't surpass. I can't quite see it going beyond season 2, even if Gervais ever intended that.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
17:38 / 06.10.06
It's Gervais attempt at making Curb Your Enthusiasm, but unfortunetly he's just not as clever as Larry David, or even as he thinks he is.

Was every joke last night just another celeb playing against type funny?
 
 
■
20:11 / 06.10.06
It's Gervais attempt at making Curb Your Enthusiasm,

Which Jack Dee has just done far better than Gervais, although a bit more blatantly.
 
 
intrepidlytrite
14:49 / 08.10.06
After seeing the last episode of Extras, the cringe-effect has become almost unbearable. I'm quite sure that Millman will be exonerated from everything in the end by some "deus ex machina" effect, but I feel he should get to it rather sooner than later.

While season 1 was funny with a few cringe moments, season 2 has become a cringe-fest, not least due to the overwhelming stupidity of Maggie and the agent. The credibility just suffers when someone like Merchant's character hasn't been given the boot as Andy's agent. Nobody would put up with his antics in real life.
 
 
ghadis
21:58 / 28.12.07
That last Xmas show was a pile of shit wasn't it?
 
 
Triplets
00:51 / 29.12.07
Yeah, David Tennant really didn't bring his best ohhhh shittt
 
 
Benny the Ball
15:06 / 31.12.07
I thought George Michael was funny.

I've got the DVD of series 2 unwatched at home, but watched this - I thought it was okay, not great, and there were moments where I just thought 'what are you doing?!' but the BB ending was quite good in a Network 'mad as hell etc' way and I teared up a little at Andy's call to Maggie via Penguin question (but I've been a little hyper-emotional of late, so....)

Still, George Michael was funny.
 
  

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