BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Extras! (spoliers!)

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
19:20 / 21.07.05
I'm watching the first episode and laughing heartily. Ben Stiller is class:

"If I blew your Mom's face off would that be funny, uh, yes, would it?"

Looks like the backlash hasn't started yet for Mr Gervais.

So what do you reckon? You likey? You no-likey?
 
 
FinderWolf
19:41 / 21.07.05
I read a very positive review of this today - can't wait to see it. Then again, I still haven't seen The Office (insert 'waaah waaah' sad music here).
 
 
FinderWolf
19:43 / 21.07.05
and, being an actor myself, I've done the dreaded extra work thing a few times (but not anymore, swore off it cause it sucks and you ain't getting successful/famous from extra work, it also doesn't pay shit) and it's pretty bizarre...that whole world is certainly ripe for satire/comedy.
 
 
Warewullf
19:53 / 21.07.05
Very funny with some great moments. Stiller was obviously up for it and did a brilliant job. Will definitely be watching the series.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:58 / 21.07.05
Oh shite. Forgot about that.

Nice interview with RG in Radio Times this week, with John Humphrys as the interviewer. Nicely self-effacing without denying his obvious pride in what he's made.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
20:00 / 21.07.05
Off topis: Stoatie, Katherine Tate's still on and something with Stephen Fry afterwards! QUICK! BBC2!"
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
20:14 / 21.07.05
"Something" being another series of 'Absolute Power' (I didn't realise), which is getting better and better IMHO. (I don't mean to sound Un-PC, but the fact that the two leading ladies are two of my favourite UK TV actresses helps as well). Great writing, casting, and acting.
 
 
Benny the Ball
21:15 / 21.07.05
It was quite good. Didn't bother introducing the characters too much, so guessing there'll be more development as time goes on, but yeah, Ben Stiller was very game;

"Do you know who I am?"
"Either Starsky or Hutch, I can never remember"
"Is that supposed to be funny?"
"You tell me, you were in it"
"Do you know how much Meet the Fokers grossed?!"
 
 
Essential Dazzler
22:13 / 21.07.05
I really enjoyed this. Giving Gervais a similar character to play with and pick fault in made his character far easier to relate too than Brent.
 
 
Smoothly
23:53 / 21.07.05
Didn't bother introducing the characters too much, so guessing there'll be more development as time goes on

As I understand it, this was supposed to be ep2, then the running order was changed quite late in the day. I think the getting to know you episode will be next week.

I really liked this. I thought it improved as it went on, but then I think perhaps it just took me a while to get my ear in. I've heard RG saying that this character is much closer to what he's like in real life, and I can believe that. Wasn't sure about Ben Stiller at first, but thought he was great by the end.

"I've kissed Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore. I've slapped Jennifer Anniston's butt!..."

"In films."

"It counts. It still counts."


Should we have new threads for the Katherine Tate Show and Absolute Power? Both seem to be going from strength to strength if tnight's series openers are anything to go by. Are people going to be watching these?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:55 / 21.07.05
Yeah, make a new thread for each. I caught the first fifteen minutes of Absolute Power and thought it stunk, but I wouldn't want to clog this thread up with a post about why.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
00:03 / 22.07.05
Yeah, make a new thread for each ...

Definitely. I third that suggestion. I was going to do it, but figured I'd started enough threads lately... Typing of which...
 
 
■
06:49 / 22.07.05
Extras ep1 was indeed the first episode, but Absolute Power was actually the last one shifted forward (so it's going to be odd seeing everything back to normal after the cute revelation at the end about Jamie).
The lack of introduction to the characters in Extras is probably intentional. There's not much development or learning through the series, you're dropped in and you just have to roll with it. Now I think about it, ep2 does have a whole set-up with Stephen Merchant as the agent (who is great), so it might have been a better opening episode, but Ben Stiller is probably a stronger big name to open with than Ross Kemp.
Anyway, back to the episode in question.
What struck me was how easily you could imagine Stiller's lines being spouted by David Brent or Gervais himself in offensive stand-up mode. The real star for me is Ashley Jensen as Maggie. She's got an interesting combination of innocence and sexual desperation going on. As with the other characters she often gets Gervais-by proxy lines (for example the "Chinese, Japanese..." rhyme) but seems to be the most rounded charcter, there for her own sake rather than to make Gervais look good.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:26 / 26.08.05
Final episode was on last night. Patrick Stewart was very good. Precisely as he appears in interviews, only with his vaguely disturbing fetish.

"She's trying to put her clothes back on, but it doesn't matter, I've seen it all."

What's a good title for his film idea? "Carry On Purple Man" perhaps.
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
12:34 / 26.08.05
Askwith Almighty
 
 
FinderWolf
19:12 / 26.08.05
Patrick Stewart showed up on this? I've gotta see it.
 
 
Mistoffelees
11:41 / 04.12.05
For Ricky Gervais aficionados:

Guardian Unlimited to podcast 'The Ricky Gervais Show'

In an industry first, Guardian Unlimited is to podcast twelve exclusive new weekly shows from Ricky Gervais, starting Monday 5 December.

When Ricky Gervais was asked to name the funniest man alive, he said, "my friend Karl Pilkington. The trouble is, I don't think he knows he's being funny".

Each week, award-winning comedians Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant rummage around in the mind of Karl Pilkington to prove he's not just the village idiot, he's beaten off all competition to take the national title.
 
 
■
20:43 / 04.12.05
They seem to have missed the point of podcasting, though. Giving us a time when it will be available is kind of against the idea that you set up and RSS sub and wait for new stuff. I would have thought the Guardian tech people would know better.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
19:17 / 14.09.06
"I should be taking notes..."
 
 
Psych Safeling
11:52 / 15.09.06
It was great. Stephen Merchant's character has definitely got the Brent cringe. It's quite interesting how the concept works to sell the programme but actually the key cameo is of diminishing importance. Goes to show that there's a lot more than a conceit at work here, I guess. I did like the almost farcical climax of the Orlando plot, though. I say almost farcical, but thinking about it, the response of the 'actress' was actually quite understated. And how dark was Cheggers?
 
 
ghadis
12:03 / 15.09.06
I thought it was really good. A great start to the new series. Loved the little slap downs of Lenny Henry, Peter Kay and the general crapness of catchphrase humour.
 
 
Psych Safeling
12:40 / 15.09.06
The Lenny Henry one was funny, I forgot about that. It could have been less explicit, but y'know, broad appeal...

Poor old Barry.
 
 
Brigade du jour
12:49 / 15.09.06
Aww, Barry'll be okay.



'THE OFFICE' SPOILERS ...










Christ, even Brent got a girlfriend ...








END SPOILERS



Promising start to the new series, I thought. More of the same really, although maybe even fewer laughs, but that's not a criticism on my part. I don't really watch Extras for the laughs, to me it's more like a funny drama than a sitcom. I must be really fucked-up!
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
16:22 / 15.09.06
I thought it was ok. Just ok. The bits of Andy trying to make his TV show were funny, sad, clever and brave. The Maggie story was weak though.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:13 / 15.09.06
I've actually missed all of Extras so far. But I'm currently torrenting the new one.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:47 / 15.09.06
OK, I am SO getting the first series.

It's weird- I like Ricky Gervais, and have done since his guest slot on Claire Sturgess's show on XFM years ago, but I never get particularly excited about announcements of his new stuff- the write-ups never seem to do them justice. It took me a couple of years to get round to watching The Office, for example. But when I watch it, I always enjoy it. Well, maybe "enjoy"'s the wrong word, as he is the King Of Cringe. But it's always bloody good. Maybe a lesson for the future.

Keith Chegwin is a brave, brave man. If I read a script like that featuring me AS MYSELF coming out with that dialogue, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Much as he's Keith Chegwin, I have to give him some respect for that. Though I guess he's realised by now that a new series of Cheggers Plays Pop is never going to be in the offing. Given that his last two TV appearancesw of note have been this and that thing where he got his nob out which keeps getting voted worst thing on telly EVER, I figure he didn't have much to lose.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:32 / 21.09.06
Episode 2: The song went on too long and unfortunately sacrificed any sense of realism, but that was proabably Bowie's greatest moment since Zoolander.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:17 / 21.09.06
However... the fundamental problem undermining series 1 is still there. And that problem is this: Andy Millman serves as both Tim and Brent. Gervais wants us to laugh and cringe at Millman as we did at Brent, but he also wants to be the touchstone, the straight man, the normal guy, and Millman serves that same role.

So in this episode we had Millman as the sort of fool who would give £20 to a homeless man for good publicity ~ self-serving, hypocritical, selfconscious, false, ludicrous ~ and who would bribe his friend to ask for an autograph. The latter scene would have worked precisely with Brent in the same position (and Dawn forced to pay him compliments), and as Gervais isn't actually much of an actor, always apparently playing someone very much like his persona in interviews as Ricky Gervais, the whole performance in terms of Millman's mannerisms, his voice, his toadying, false modesty, eyebrow-waggling, grimacing and so on could have been a deleted scene from The Office.

On the other hand, we have Millman as the long-suffering straight man while all his friends go ape over "BOOBIES" on a calculator ~ Millman with his head down, almost exchanging pleading glances with us (as he would have as Tim). In these scenes (like the one with Chegwin last week) Gervais wants to be the only sane, adult character in the room, the one we identify with while cringing at the others.

In The Office, Gervais as awful clown and Gervais as straight-man hero were split across two characters. In Extras, we're asked to see Millman as a sympathetic, long-suffering, sincere and mature person in contrast to his milieu, and then to laugh at his failed pretensions and self-deceptions. It's like having Polly and Basil Fawlty in the same character.

That, to me, is the key fracture that ultimately makes Extras a failure as a project ~ a very, very funny show at times, but just without ... conceptual and character integrity.

(The other big problem is, as suggested above, the stretching of the show's "realism" ~ breaking out of The Office's perfect ensemble cast of regulars means you have cameos from people who sometimes perform way too broad, and the introduction of David Bowie doing a piano number in a club is glorious for the Dame's fans but totally breaks the terms of realism that the show established in its earlier scenes with Millman in his flat or on the local streets.)
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:26 / 22.09.06
and the introduction of David Bowie doing a piano number in a club is glorious for the Dame's fans but totally breaks the terms of realism that the show established in its earlier scenes with Millman in his flat or on the local streets.

The presence of the celebrity de'jour does tend to bend realism in the other episodes though. Patrick Stewart's fetish in the final episode last year springs to mind.

I'm quite liking "Barry" getting more screen time.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:56 / 22.09.06
Yes, it does, I agree. However toothsome some of the cameos are, the performance often has a slightly different tone to the naturalistic fumblings of the regular cast (Gervais and Jensen anyway... I don't really like Merchant as an actor). In Bowie's case, though, I was torn between thinking it wrecked the programme and wanting to see more Bowie.
 
 
Sniv
10:11 / 22.09.06
I thought that Orlando Bllom's delivery last week reminded me of Mackenzie Crook from the office, especially when he's showing himself in the gossip mags. It's obviously Gervais' dialogue coupled with Bloom's desperate/lying/bragging, but the style of 'voice' really stuck out to me.

I did think though that Patrick Stewart's was the best episode last series. Just him saying "But I've seen it all, I've seen everything," gets me in fits of giggles every time. I like how the stars will make themselves look absolutely ridiculous, and it makes me wonder if they have any input on the scripts or not (I'm guessing not, seeing as Gervais won't even let his actors ad lib).
 
 
Future Perfect
14:28 / 22.09.06
However... the fundamental problem undermining series 1 is still there. And that problem is this: Andy Millman serves as both Tim and Brent. Gervais wants us to laugh and cringe at Millman as we did at Brent, but he also wants to be the touchstone, the straight man, the normal guy, and Millman serves that same role.

Isn't this exactly what's great about Extras? That Andy and Maggie are just really human, they're sharp and witty and insightful about some things but they struggle and can be dreadfully gauche in other situations. Isn't this where a lot of the humour in Extras lies - you know you cringe for them and find the painful bits painful because you know they're basically all right but they're not showing that all the time. Makes me think of Maggie and the golliwog incident and Andy this week trying to chat up his new neighbour, all those situations where you think "Why are you doing that? You don't need to do that."

Real people aren't characters, are they? They're complex and contradictory and behave inconsistently and all of that is what's great about them.

As an aside, is anyone getting a sense of how "When the Whistle Blows" could have been a great sitcom. Can't quite put my finger on it, but this week especially it felt like a good sitcom that had got derailed into something awful, rather than an awful sitcom from the start. Might be my wishful thinking, but great writing if that's true.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:53 / 22.09.06
Isn't this exactly what's great about Extras? ...
Real people aren't characters, are they? They're complex and contradictory and behave inconsistently and all of that is what's great about them.


The Office was great, with great characters, and it developed Brent as a consistent, coherent, yet complex character ~ someone you could both sympathise with and cringe at, and think "oh, no, David, please don't... God he's dreadful" but also feel for in his desperation.

But he wasn't inconsistent. I don't doubt that real people are inconsistent. This is a larger issue, but maybe real people do not work as fictional characters. I would suggest that the two are quite different.

Having a character you laugh at as the butt of jokes, but is also the heroic straight man (something that was not true of Brent), does not work very well for me as the central figure in a sit-com. Equally, a real half-hour in someone's life would not usually make a great sit-com.

More things I did like about this episode, though:

~ the theme song of When The Wind Blows, which in its narrative (as I remember) of having dreams that you gave up to work in a crummy job with an awful manager actually described Dawn and Tim's position in The Office. Ironically, it seemed most reminiscent of the theme song from Saved By The Bell.

~ the way Dave's song could have come from the "1. Outside" album: there's a lyric on it that runs

Poor soul
He never knew what hit him
And it hit him so

Poor dunce
He pushed back the pigmen
The Barbs laughed
The fool is dead
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:17 / 22.09.06
SPOILER WARNING
^
^
^
^
^
^ "A joke", about title of the show. When the Wind Blows is a film by Raymond Briggs.
 
 
Smoothly
13:21 / 26.09.06
But he wasn't inconsistent. I don't doubt that real people are inconsistent. This is a larger issue, but maybe real people do not work as fictional characters. I would suggest that the two are quite different.

See, I also think this is a real strength of Extras. And I fundamentally disagree that real characters and fictional characters are quite different, because we are all – to some extent – fictional characters. I think this is one of Gervais’s themes. We had David Brent creating his ‘chilled out entertainer’, management guru and poet philosopher characters in spite of the personality traits that belied them.

It’s the same with Andy Millman – but he’s genuinely conflicted rather than deluded, and wrestles with his weaknesses. He is all the things he hates the most – and he knows it – which is something I think a lot of us can relate to.

I think you put it rather well here:
Gervais wants us to laugh and cringe at Millman as we did at Brent, but he also wants to be the touchstone, the straight man, the normal guy, and Millman serves that same role.

That’s the thing. Brent was cringeworthy, but never cringed at himself. Millman is different because he does, and is a richer, more believable character for it. That’s what makes him the touchstone, the normal guy.

That’s what I liked about ep 2. His antipathy to being recognised in the pub was quite studied. Deep down he’s ambivalent. He’s seduced by the fame and recognition and populism that he claims antipathy towards. He wants to be the kind of person who shuns it, but ultimately cannot resist it, and loathes himself for it.

Having a character you laugh at as the butt of jokes, but is also the heroic straight man (something that was not true of Brent), does not work very well for me as the central figure in a sit-com.

I like that he is both the heroic straight man *and* being the butt of jokes. That feels quite realistic to me. Clown and Straight Man are just constructs that have become the mainstay of sketch comedy, but real life isn’t like that, is it? Most people are both, aren’t they? I think this is something that Gervais and Merchant are going for. (Personally, I do think the same is true of Brent.)
Do you know what I mean? Why does a character like that not work for you in a sitcom? Is it a complexity thing? Do sitcoms need an interplay of one-note characters to succeed?

Equally, a real half-hour in someone's life would not usually make a great sit-com.

We got pretty much that in several episodes of The Royale Family? Not real enough, or not a great sit-com?
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply