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We Wu Wei

 
  

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00:57 / 15.07.05
A few weeks ago at work I was zoning the New Age/Religion section (by "zoning" I mean scanning each book and returning certain ones back to the publisher). What was unsusual about this was the fact that this section wasn't even my department... I was just filling in for a co-worker who was on vacation. As I was scanning the Eastern section I pushed some books down on the shelf and one of them fell into my hands. The name of the (very slim) book was "All Else is Bondage" by Wei Wu Wei. The name seemed familiar to me: I recalled Kenneth Grant name-checking him in "Nightside of Eden", and I vaguely remember someone here recommending him to me. I was a little surprised we carried one of his books at my store, which has a very small New Age/religion section (for example, the only Crowley books we have are "Moonchild", "777", and "Confessions of a Dope Fiend). The price wasn't bad so I purchased it that day... The back cover said it was Wei's "shortest, clearest, and most direct" book, and that he considered it to be the epitome of his life's work. "Well, might as well start at the top." I thought.

I tried to read it that night, but it was a very hot day and everyone was crowded into the one room in the house that had AC and the TV was on: I couldn't concentrate, and only got a few pages into it. Last night I tried again, carefully reading all 75 pages or so (as I said, it was a short book).

TO be blunt, it's one of the most muddling things I've ever read. Generally speaking I'm not really into eastern philosophy: I find it interesting to some degree, things like Buddhism and things like that, but my magical interests are primarily of western influence. So maybe I'm just not in the right mindset to "get" something like this (though the author says there is nothing to "get"). I got the main theme: Wei talks about the "dungeon of individuality", "non-volitational living" (which seems to involve sponteneity), cause and efect, the illusion of phenomenal existence, and all that... It's not that the words are big or complex, it's just he uses the same similiar sounding words over and over again so it gets confusing. Here's an example:

"What am I?
As far as I can understand I am the absence of my presence and the absence of my presence of my absence.
What does that mean?
It means that I am my phenomenal absence, and also the absence of that still phenomenal absence itself.
The resulting absence is phenomenally total, but it is not noumenally nil- or what is sometimes called pure nihilism.
It is an absence of all possible phenomenal presence which is itself, noumenally, whatever I am.
That is entirely no thing, for which reason it can neither be named nor described, which means that it is neither the "that" nor the "it" by which terms I have just referred to it.
But the establishment of "its" total phenomenal inexistence as an object of sense, or of thought, as a thing in itself, in no way implies its intemporal nullity.
On the contrary, the very temporal inexistence of itself as an object of consciousness, requires and indicates intemporal Isness."

Words fail me. I could spend hours studying that page alone and still not get just what it is the author is trying to say.

Even more frustrating are his claims about how simple it should be to understand but, because of it's simplicity, we are unable to understand it. Or as he says, "It is too clear and so it is hard to see". He says that "It" is all that we are (but what is "It"?) that we are our absence, that we cease to be that which we never were, that neither existence nor non-existence exist... There seem to be contradictions everywhere. Maybe it would help if he gave some examples or metaphors to illustrate what he was trying to say.
 
 
eye landed
05:22 / 15.07.05
is it translated from chinese? the name must be a pun.

sorry to stick out here, but it seems pretty clear to me. that passage is defining the conscious self as the antethesis of objective existence, 'existing' only as that which is not 'real'. the quotes demonstrate the difficulty of conveying abstract information with words, but are not a sign of a good writer. a thought is a thought until it reveals itself to another observer, and at that point it becomes objective.

as far as bondage goes, its not mentioned in your passage, but i reckon hes checkin the freedom of the soul without material attachment. buddha say the suffering in desire is the pain of a soul stuck to crude matter, such as possessions or the body. the soul becomes free in its (oversimple) knowledge of its vastness-- with that scope, the objective world can be condemned.

big als book of lies might be a good primer on the language.
 
 
illmatic
07:15 / 15.07.05
There's another thread about him somewhere here. I really like his books but to read them in one sitting and comprehend isn't possible, IMO (unless you're really familar with the source material. It's kind of like trying to read the Tao te Ching in one go, the point isn't to get through it, like a race, gulping it down. The point is to live with it, and his concepts awhile, internalise it, think in his terms. It's like KG's work in that it does things as much as says things.

Dare I say it, some experience of meditation might help here.
 
 
illmatic
07:24 / 15.07.05
Some stuff in this thread.

Anything worth reading will require re-reading IMO. You wouldn't expect to "get" Nietchze, Proust, Joyce etc. first time around would you?
 
 
illmatic
07:28 / 15.07.05
Oh, and he is thoroughly Buddhist (or Taoist), in case that passed you by.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:56 / 15.07.05
It's a pen name, the author was living in Ireland when all those books were written.

Wei Wu Wei is an exponent of Advaita Vedanta...Advaita is a sanskrit word meaning 'There are not two', and most advaita texts would hope to inform you that all prescriptions to relieve the drama of separation actually serve only to reinforce it.

Advaita teachings suggest that thought is, by its nature, reflective and seperative, roughly meaning that with every thought that occurs within consciousness, a symbiotic, reflective thought also arises, and almost perfectly disguises itself as a 'thinker'...this process can continue infinitely...try it out, now....

As you think, wonder who is doing the thinking - ah!but who is wondering?...the problem now is you are two...the thought, and the thought about the thought, which almost immediately leads to the same question again 'who is this thinking', and again, who's asking, and so on, iterative seperation, thoughts dividing like yeast...The important thing to grasp is that the continuity you feel exists between these thoughts which are attached to other thoughts and disguised as a thinker, is illusory. But it is this illusion of coninuity which gives rise to your feeling of being a time-bound individual, when all there is is consciousness, playing a game of hide and seek with itself, for there is only it, one thing arising always and already - and you are that YOU ARE, just as I am that I AM.

That is, there never was, or ever will be, a 'thinker'...there is only thought, and thought about thought, arising on the 'screen' of consciousness, and dying...which spins the whole notion of 'reincarnation' in an interesting light, because it literally means that 'you' are born and die with every thought arising and passing...

The thought structure is, usefully (for avoiding sabre tooth tigers, hunting mammoths and collecting shoots and tubers at least), adamant that it retains control at all costs and so weaves the *almost* impenetrable illusion of continuity and permanence, and infects every thought with a desire for exactly that - permanence...pleasure eternal, wihtout a moment of pain...the problem being that the body cannot withstand anything of too much duration, pleasure in such degree would destroy it, and so we eventually arrive at the modern condition where the organism has drifted so far from its innate intelligence inn servitude to a degenerate and false/illusory thinking mechanism which was conjured as its servant but has taken over the house.

It's a flip/reverse on traditional vanilla religious wisdom which maintains somehow that our intelligence is the indication of our 'soul' and that we grew a body to house that wonderful gift from God, or whatever/whoever. In contrast Advaita wisdom maintains that the body is pure perfection, and bastly intelligent, but that it developed an intellect which eventually usurped the body and hence the natural functioning of the senses...

Loads of info about Advaita webwide if you're interested...I actually find Wei Wu Wei slightly irritating, to be honest. There are far more direct descriptions of the wisdom available, including the Book of Chuang Tzu (traditional taoist text), and, which I seem to be endlessly plugging here at Barbelith, the recorded dialogues of U G Krishnamurti, who is quite the most crotchety and fantastically subversive enlightened man to have ever had his vitriol recorded in print. Best of all, he completely disparages the notion of copyright (since there is no 'him' to claim ownership of anything anyway), so all his books can be freely downloaded here

Much better than Wei Wu Wei as an introduction to these ideas is Leo Hartong's book Awakening to the Dream and Tony Parson's book The Open Secret

Also Ram Tzu and Nathan Gill, quite a few authors are good at dispelling the apparent difficulty of this subject and bringing clarity to the notions.

The sufi parable that I like most that illustrates this point has the Mullah Nasrudin charging about the market place all flustered on the back of his donkey, panting and sweating. Eventually somebody reins in the animal and asks the Mullah "What on Earth are you getting so flustered about? What are looking for?"

Nasrudin replies "Out of my way! I'm looking for my donkey!"
 
 
Anthony
10:27 / 15.07.05
I recommend Crowley's translation of the Tao Teh King, which is more focused on practice, and is available online.
 
 
illmatic
10:55 / 15.07.05
Anth: Could you say why? Or offer more thoughts and opinions based on your experience?
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:43 / 15.07.05
i am thinking....

you should really experience this rather than read about it. do the meditation.

but if you have to word wank your brain chuang tzu as already mentioned or lieh tzu perhaps, but id rather see people learn to meditate and then communicate there experiences.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:46 / 15.07.05
Meditation is guff.

Learn to unlearn? Make effort to achieve an effortless natural state? Fight for inner peace?

It's guff. There's nothing to achieve, because it already IS.
 
 
Sekhmet
15:38 / 15.07.05
Isn't "Wei Wu Wei" a basic Taoist tenet, meaning "do without doing" or some such?
 
 
Sekhmet
15:41 / 15.07.05
I may well have that wrong; most of what I know about Taoism I learned form Winnie-the-Pooh.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:39 / 15.07.05
Wu Wei.

Effortless action. A 'Not Doing'. Describing (for example) Keith jarret playing the piano, or a really good dancer dancing, or driving a car once you've a good few years experience. Doing without doing.

Wei Wu Wei - It's a jokey pen name.

Though it sort of makes sense.
 
 
grant
18:16 / 15.07.05
I'd be very interested to see if both "weis" were the same character in Chinese. If so, then yeah, he's saying "meaning-non-meaning," literally, or "name-not-name" or just riffing on the Taoist "doing-not-doing," or "active non-action".

Jokey.

the character for wu

one character for wei (meaning/name)

another character for wei (doing) <--THIS IS THE TAOIST ONE WHAT LOOKS LIKE THE MONKEY HAND.

I totally dig that "wu" comes from an image of dancing, especially since on the way to that page, I stopped by a friend's blog update talking about how she finally understood swing dancing was all in the follow, and not in where you put your feet or anything. Action without form.

Perception without perceiver, even.

So yes, what this guy seems to be doing is translating standard Taoist/Ch'an Buddhist (and even Vedanta) "nothingness" into what seems like the language of postmodern/deconstructive theory.
 
 
grant
18:25 / 15.07.05
According to this Wei Wu Wei archive, it's the Taoist "wei" and not the name "wei" in his name.

Which makes sense.

You'll probably find the introduction rather helpful, although it simply restates what's been said here -- Irish dude, studied in India, wrote from 1958 to 1974 (and was cousin of the founder of the Royal Ballet - dance again), had as influences...

... a variety of sources, including Taoism, specifically the texts attributed to Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu, Buddhism, especially The Heart, Diamond and Lankavatara Sutras, and Chan Buddhism as taught by Hui Neng, Huang Po, Hui Hai, etc., as well as the teachings of Padma Sambhava and Sri Ramana Maharshi, among others.

That passage seems a lot like the Heart Sutra to me.

His final book, Western occultism fans, was published under the pen name "O.O.O."
 
 
Unconditional Love
20:33 / 15.07.05
theres nothing to achieve because its nothing.....full of nothing, every form full of nothing. but to experience that through practice or sudden awareness is alittle different to reading about it, pardon the understatement.

if nothing else meditation is worth it for all the physical benefits attained from regular practice. but alot more comes from it.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
23:52 / 15.07.05
Absolutely...of course meditation has function, even if only to lead one to it's abandonment...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
23:54 / 15.07.05
I may well have that wrong; most of what I know about Taoism I learned form Winnie-the-Pooh.

Now that's a really good book...

Along with 'The Te of Piglet', which I haven't yet read.
 
 
Unconditional Love
00:03 / 16.07.05
i am intrested why would you abandon the following benefits.

A Summary of Benefits*(4)

In The Physical and Psychological Effects of Meditation, Michael Murphy and Steven Donovan summarize the findings of over 1,000 scientific studies on meditation. The benefits of meditation revealed by such research can be classified into three categories: physiological, psychological, and spiritual.

Physiological benefits:
- Decreased heart rate
- Lower blood pressure in normal and moderately hypertensive individuals
- Quicker recovery from stress
- Increase in alpha rhythms (slow, high amplitude brain waves that correlate with relaxation)
- Enhanced synchronization of the right and left hemispheres of the brain (which positively correlates with creativity)
- Reduced serum cholesterol levels
- Decreased consumption of energy need for oxygen
- Deeper, slower breathing
- Muscle relaxation
- Reduction in the intensity of pain

Psychological benefits:
- Increased empathy
- Enhanced creativity and self-actualization
- Heightened perceptual clarity and sensitivity
- Reductions in both acute and chronic anxiety
- Complement to psychotherapy and other approached in the treatment of addiction

Spiritual benefits:
- Awakened to the present moment
- Deeper connection with self, others, and universe
- Feeling more centered, grounded, and balanced
- Enhanced performance at work and play
- Increased appreciation, gratitude, and love
 
 
*
01:07 / 16.07.05
Isn't there already a thread about the benefits of meditation?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
01:20 / 16.07.05
But is one actually abandoning said benefits? Or simply saying "I'm going to go and get this stuff via another route"? Heading to the same destination but on rollerblades rather than skateboard?

Um. Yes. Other thread. Sorry. (Touch of hypocrisy too, given the amount of time I've recently spent looking into alternative meditation techniques.)
 
 
---
02:19 / 16.07.05
the point isn't to get through it, like a race, gulping it down. The point is to live with it, and his concepts awhile, internalise it, think in his terms. It's like KG's work in that it does things as much as says things.

I was thinking more or less the same thing. When reading Eastern stuff for the first time, it can seem a little annoying, like the people describing things are purposely trying to be obscure, but sometimes it's not the case. When the writer's talking about 'it's not this and it's not not this', what he/she is trying to explain is that it can't be grasped with discrimination, it's not really an either/or situation unless you walk a big distance away from the picture. The whole point of it is that it's non-dual, free from words and analyzing and that it can't be grasped by 'thinking'. Probably not feeling either, maybe closer to the sorcerer's gift of direct seeing.

I'm reading a Mahayana sutra over again for about the third time, it's about 30 something pages long, and the trick isn't to try and grasp it straightaway, it's to be patient with it and let the information sink in each time you read it, to come back to it a while later when you have more experience of things. Basically it's pointing to the fact that you can't 'grasp' these concepts, because they're only to be gotten by using your intuition. Possibly like Tipareth on the tree of life, it arrives by direct identification, and not by trying to work it out. Also that the idea of 'grasping' things is one of the root problems that Eastern methods try to point out to us, that we grasp, then form habit energy that binds us into places that we don't want to be in.

Things like this can be frustrating at first, but they arrive in time. The point is that it's not done by mentation, it's done by coming to an intuitive understanding, or a 'direct knowing', that arrives possibly like an initiation : when you're ready for it.

Eastern stuff is just as filled with "aha!" moments as Western Occultism is a lot of the time.
 
 
Anthony
06:35 / 16.07.05
Ah just a personal thing - TTK was useful to me. And comprehensible.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:09 / 16.07.05
i am intrested why would you abandon the following benefits

Beneficial to...whom?

By imagining the time-bound 'preferable' state 'you' are going to be in after 'you' have performed this that or the other and placing it in a future requiring effort on your behalf to achieve, you have upset the perfect, harmonious and vastly intelligent natural state of your body. Your mentations and desire for something other than what is have left you in a present state of 'suffering' which needs to be fixed by some volitional action on your behalf. This is absurd.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:11 / 16.07.05
Too much think! Not enough be!
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:41 / 16.07.05
theres no think involved, its all about doing. i see myself saying the same thing from a different angel.nice points you have there.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
18:00 / 16.07.05
I'm fairly sure we've established that it's all about not doing.
 
 
Unconditional Love
20:15 / 16.07.05
doing by not doing, perhaps?
 
 
Anthony
15:45 / 19.07.05
letting go .. even letting go of the intention to let go..
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:45 / 19.07.05
Releasing the organism from the stranglehold of thought, as U G would have it (and mock anyone for repeating), returning to a natural rhythm, state and functioning of the senses.

"Colours blind the eyes
Music deafens the ears
Fine foods ruin the tongue
and perfumes dull the nose"

as Chuang Tzu might have it (paraphrasing, I don't have it around). The pleasure movement, you see. The cascade of thought, one into another, leading to a movement toward 'pleasure' and away from 'pain', discriminating always.

U G claims (though who the fuck is he, anyway?) that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to escape this. Nothing at all. The obvious reason being that nothing originating in the thinking structure can do a single IshkavaraDamn thing about ending the process that manifested it in the first place. Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, you see (so to speak). Hence the absurdities of meditating for moksha or samadhi or whatever it is you want. You want it. But it, the thing you want, is the absolute annihilation of, never to return, ciao, sayonara, Ta Ta For Ever, you

'You' want/desire to be free of 'you'...but that want/desire IS all that 'you' are anyway. Hilarious really. Stuck in the middle with you.

And really, you don't want that. That's the last thing on Earth you want. That, you see, would be the end of you. Dead as a doornail. Gone with the wind. No more you at all. Meditate on that, motherfuckerzzz!!!

(no offence)
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:06 / 19.07.05
Incidentally, after his 'calamity' (which sounds remarkably similar to Gopi Krishna's account of awakened Kundalini, though Gopi goes on to a 'one size fits all : I-Have-The-Answer' polemic, while Krishnamurti insists his calamity was in spite of and not due to any of his yogic training) U G noted that when he awakens from his death-like comas, the movements he must make, like those of a new born baby, resemble Tai Chi.

He ruminates, at one point, that maybe awakened men and women of old were copied by students and initiates observing this movement in the hope that it would be beneficial or move them towards the 'goal'.

A bit like rapidly withdrawing your hand from over a bundle of sticks in the hope that it might start a fire.

(I'm not knocking Tai Chi, or Yoga for that matter, both of which I practice, btw).
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:14 / 19.07.05
Beautiful - from that Wei Wu Wei archive linked to by grant:

How many of the ways (disciplines, exercises, practices) recommended as helpful, or even necessary, for the attainment of Satori are not in fact consequences of that state erroneously suggested as means?
 
 
Anthony
12:07 / 20.07.05
at a certain point, it's said, one has to abandon one's very spiritual aspiration. focus on the "mundane". get out of all these traps of thought.

there's no annihilation of the ego. it's simply making way for a deeper core self to act.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:02 / 20.07.05
Get out of the traps of thought? And go where? You have nowhere else to go. There is nowhere else to go.
Thought is not the instrument which can help you, and yet you have no other instrument.

This, then, is the shitter. Completely helpless. Clowns to the left of the me, jokers to the right.

Here I am.

Now what?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:19 / 20.07.05
Sorry to harp on!

at a certain point, it's said, one has to abandon one's very spiritual aspiration. focus on the "mundane". get out of all these traps of thought.

This very notion, that there is 'some point' (which is never 'now' - the only actual time that has any verifiable existence whatsoever, always after something, some effort, some action, some new meditation, some drug fuelled revelation, whatever, always always later, a mentation, a projection into a non-existant dead thought) at which something must be done, somewhere to get to, somewhere to get out of, this is all 'you' are, and this is all that is keeping 'you' from functioning in the most beautiful and natural living fashion.

This is what keeps us as human doings, instead of a human beings.

Without this notion, the continuity illusion between thought explodes (really), and hence there is no 'I' that requires anything whatsoever. It already IS. Right now. Always.

Total purposelessness right at the very heart of things-as- they-are.
 
  

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