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Explosion at Liverpool Street?

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
07:40 / 07.07.05
Reports of "walking wounded" at Liverpool Street, tubes closed at Liverpool Street, Bank, Aldgate... is anyone nearby? ANy further information?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
07:54 / 07.07.05
Sax has a thread here, (Conversation) but it doesn't look like anyone knows much yet...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:19 / 07.07.05
I think it's quite important that Londoners etc who understand and care about the global political situation get on record quite early and say: this changes nothing.

Because there has sometimes been a tendency for American neo-consevrative commentators, respectable middle-class English Zionists, and so on, to say "wait until the bombs start going off in your country/city, then you'll change your tune!"

No. I still feel exactly the same way about the war on Iraq, the illegal occupation of Palestine, the propagation of Islamophobia by the UK and US governments and media, the need to oppose ID cards and racist immigration policies, the need for the mass murderer Blair to be brought to account, etc. If anything, it's only strengthened my resolve.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:58 / 07.07.05
Yup, Fly, you're bang on the money.

It's also done nothing to lessen my feeling that Mr Tony has been spending the last few years painting a big fucking target right across the British Isles.

What Bush'n'Blair seem not to get is that in many cases (most, hopefully, and mine definitely) objections to their actions aren't based on pragmatism, but on principle. And people blowing shit up does nothing to change my principles.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:59 / 07.07.05
From the Wikipedia:

Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom has said, "The terror is no longer only in Israel, it is worldwide and the free world should punish the attackers"

Do you see what he did there?
 
 
grant
13:15 / 07.07.05
From a widely circulated pro-war email: "We've got your back."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:46 / 07.07.05
Well, then, they'd best go watch their fronts, hadn't they?

(This post dedicated to Flyboy).
 
 
DecayingInsect
13:52 / 07.07.05
"middle-class English Zionists..."

"the propagation of Islamophobia by the UK and US governments and media..."

"racist immigration policies..."

"mass murderer Blair..."

Flyboy On the Money?! On a different planet more like!
 
 
Axolotl
13:54 / 07.07.05
Precisely, this is another fine mess the Labour government have gotten us into, and will no doubt waste no time in appropriating to push their war on civil liberties, or is it terror, I forget.
 
 
Axolotl
13:57 / 07.07.05
That "precisely" wasn't in response to DecayingInsect by the way.
 
 
sleazenation
14:04 / 07.07.05
Fuck Terrorism. It ain't gonna stop me going about my daily life. I'm going to go to the pub.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:10 / 07.07.05
On a different planet more like!

On a different planet than the one where it's all the fault of those "evil-doing" Arabs? I imagine so.
 
 
Char Aina
14:12 / 07.07.05
i dont think flyboy is on a different planet.
i think he's pretty damn close to the truth with that post and, to my mind, more clued up than you.

feel free to prove me wrong and highlight what was extraterrestrial about what he said.
 
 
DecayingInsect
14:17 / 07.07.05
ok I'll bite:

for starters: 'government promoting islamophobia'

would that be the proposed law criminalising religious hate?
 
 
Char Aina
14:24 / 07.07.05
well, he said propagating...
but that's not the real point, is it?
how about starting with the war on terror and its focus on iraq?
a secular country, iraq was billed as a hotbed of islamic terrorism while the invasion and occupation were planned.
why?
 
 
DecayingInsect
14:36 / 07.07.05
ok 'propagating' then. What's the difference?


I opposed the war, went on marches.


But I seem to remember that al Qaeda started its campaign against the west the year before.


Flyboy: who are those 'Zionists'? I've heard some other people go on about them...
 
 
Whale... Whale... Fish!
14:51 / 07.07.05
But I seem to remember that al Qaeda started its campaign against the west the year before.

That is if you believe the hype.

The government has been propagating racial and religious hate. By talking up immigration and whipping up the mass media and daily mail reading retards into a state of paranioa which lead to attacks on assylum seekers, immigrants etc. These people are very rarely white but these people are very much needed and welcome in this country, so why stir up the hate against them? Its similar to why Islamists have been made out to be the devil, and why Iraq was made out to be a hotbed of Islamic extremist activity. Fear basically, you can control your public best when they have a constant and all consuming fear. They'll support anything. Look at the USA, how could any reasonable, rational person re-elect Bush? Because he has very successfully manipulated his population in to consenting to what ever he wants because of the fear that he has created.

I just hope that Blair will not try to use todays events as a pretext to launch an attack on Iran or wherever, or to shaft the population of this country any further.

And before anyone says not to be stupid or this isn't a police state; democracy has taken a huge knock in the past few days with respect to the use of the police and their disregard for the rule of law.
 
 
Char Aina
14:51 / 07.07.05
i havent got time right to get to far into this... for which i am sorry.

for the zionists, you'll prolly fiond what you need on wikipedia.
for a counterpoint, try www.nkusa.org.

propagate and promote?
well, i'll prolly get corrected, but for me promotion implies telling everyone why they should fear, propagation implies creating a climate of fear.
subtly different, but importantly so.
 
 
DecayingInsect
15:00 / 07.07.05
WTC attack = hype?!
 
 
Ganesh
16:02 / 07.07.05
I think it's quite important that Londoners etc who understand and care about the global political situation get on record quite early and say: this changes nothing.

Couldn't agree more. I'm hoping others will feel as infuriated as I am by Bush's (in particular) rather nauseating attempt to spin it all into Evil-Doers In Contrast To Us Good Folks, and resolve will be strengthened. US Christian boards, when they notice that something's happened in the UK, are predictably replete with Islam = Evil and The War Against Terrorism Is Not Just An American War Anymore horseshit.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:04 / 07.07.05
During GWbush's latest speach he mentioned 9/11 some 15 times. Yet the speach was intended to justify the invasion of and occupation in Iraq; a country established (by a commision appointed by GWB himself) to have nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

I would suggest the attacks in Mardid make a much more accurate parallel to this current travisty. Still, those claiming responsibility for both these attacks site the invasion/occupation of Iraq as at least one of the reasons for their actions. Along side that coinsidence, are several "reports," some authored by the Pentagon itself, that track a significant rise in world wide "terrorist attacks" since the distruction of the regime in Iraq.

It seems to me that, since the events of 9/11, the US, UK and associated administrations have done more to incite and or inspire these crimes against humanity then actually prevent them. Reactionary escalations, such as some of the actions listed above, are doing just this. Uncovering the root causes for the BOTH 9/11 attacks as well as Mardid, London, Indonesia (weren't there some discos blown up there?) seem to be lossed amidst the proselytizing for more power. Power use on punishment? detainment? militarization?
 
 
DecayingInsect
16:20 / 07.07.05
toksic: slightly off topic but NK say on their site that they oppose the existence of the State of Israel (primarily for doctrinal reasons).

Do you agree with them?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:23 / 07.07.05
Flyboy: who are those 'Zionists'? I've heard some other people go on about them...

Happy to help, via Miriam-Webster online:

Main Entry: Zi·on·ism
Pronunciation: 'zI-&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
: an international movement orig. for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel
- Zi·on·ist /-nist/ adjective or noun
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:25 / 07.07.05
Of course, I should have specified that the Zionists I was referring do not include all the possible variants of Zionism: I was not, for example, refering to the radical left-wing Zionism that opposed the creation of a racially-defined colonial nation state with admirable presience.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:27 / 07.07.05
Nor, for that matter, was I referring to those who today identify as Zionists in as much as they want the best for the people of Israel and realise that this can not be achieved through a militaristic, racially-defined nation state.
 
 
Slim
01:23 / 08.07.05
What a fucking shame all of this is. Not surprising, mind you, but what a waste of human lives.

I'm not in England at the moment but it seems to me that people are more spooked than they have been after previous terrorist attacks. Is this true or am I off base?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
02:08 / 08.07.05
I don't think we know if people are spooked yet. I'm a bit disturbed by the subterranean element, no one wants to be trapped underground and it happened to quite a few people. I've actually been encountering quite a lot of anger and a resigned feeling. You're probably picking up on the immediate shock, which won't stick and is already changing. I suspect London is going to be an angry city in the morning.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
06:57 / 08.07.05
Actually, in retrospect, rather than picking a couple of examples of categories, I should have just said: Apologists for the crimes committed by states such as the USA, Israel and indeed the UK in the name of 'fighting terror' often say "wait until...", etc.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:28 / 08.07.05
I think that woudl be wise: the term "Zionists" is so compromised by association as to be make anything around it inaudible. Easier simply to suggest that the way in which the state of Israel is currently comporting itself violates UN resolution, and that its leaders' tendency to conflate any terrorist attack anywhere in the world with the ongoing issues over Palestine is unpleasantly tacky.

Slim: I don't think so - I mean, these attacks are larger in scale than any previous terrorist attack on London, but people seem to be coping pretty well.
 
 
Char Aina
10:41 / 08.07.05
Do you agree with them?

no.
i am not and have never been a follower of the torah, and therefore have no doctrinal adherence to think about.
i assume that what you wanna know is do i believe in the dissolution of israel.
frankly, i dont know if that would help.
i do feel that israel should remove itself from foreign soil and should cease the retaliation attcks.
more palestinians have died by far, and i find that hard to justify as fair and measured response.

so.
i oppose the state of israel in as much as i disagree with their approach to finding 'peace', but not in as much as i wish it to disappear.
 
 
sleazenation
11:47 / 08.07.05
Slim - No, I don't think people are particularly more spooked by this than previous terrorist incidents. Back at work again today. Much of the tube is back up and running. The trains are still so crowded that you can't get a seat. The level of chat is down a bit perhaps - people reading their papers in silence as the tube jerks its way along.
 
 
Ganesh
11:52 / 08.07.05
Slim - if anything, the relative lack of spookedness is faintly spooky. That's about it, I think.
 
 
Smoothly
08:26 / 12.07.05
I get more spooked by this:
London has become a "feeding ground for hate" and a "crossroads for would-be terrorists" where Muslims exploit civil liberties to "openly preach jihad", according to newspapers in the United States.

Londonistan is clearly “a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism that threatens global security”. I wonder when we can expect to be liberated back to the stone age?
 
 
Not Here Still
08:29 / 12.07.05
Just going to post that myself - will go back to gnawing my desk in anger instead...
 
 
Not Here Still
08:31 / 12.07.05
Raids in Leeds:

Anti-terror police investigating the London tube and bus bombings today raided five houses in West Yorkshire.
 
  

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