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Xbox 360, PS3 & Revolution - the next hardware generation

 
  

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Yotsuba & Benjamin!
06:14 / 13.11.05
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were holding out on porting original versions of franchises about to see the light of day on the Three Six. I'm getting Amped 3 even though I've never played any of the other games, but I know many fans aren't happy with the latest iteration (no online multi). But as far as PGR3, I can't see any fan of the originals buying a 360 and not buying the new one and having that take over their lives for a good long while until all the rest of the games reach Back Cap. And these are just the list for launch day. I don't doubt that the higher ups put Amped 2 and PGR2 on the Take Your Time List but it cuts both ways. If you're a fan of those franchises, barring some mishap (no online play, way too SSXy) why wouldn't you want to buy the glistening, Achievement packed 360 editions? Xbox games don't have Achievements, and thus don't show up on your Take That, Buster Brown Page. By the time I get around to wanting to play my old, Non-Halo Xbox games, I'm sure there'll be more available, but with the Achievement Ratrace in full swing, I foresee that being a very long time indeed.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
06:02 / 08.12.05
Dunno if someone's posted this yet, but here's an ad for the XBox 360 that's been banned in the states for being too violent. Hmmm. Looks like somebody's been watching Spaced...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:08 / 08.12.05
I know, riiiiight?
 
 
---
15:03 / 12.12.05
Not only does it not currently support a huge number of critically-acclaimed games and instead focus on things that have been *mauled* by the press (I honestly can't get over the fact that they'd go to the effort of ensuring that BMX XXX works), it also overlooks some massively popular games and series. Burnout? Dead or Alive? Oddworld? Splinter Cell? All missing.

Barbie's Horse Adventures? Present.


What? What's the deal with this then? How can so many games not be compatible with their own new system?!

Are they planning on eventually making them compatible, or is this just a nice way for them to piss off and/or rip off their own customers by making them buy the games all over again?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:14 / 12.12.05
Once More With Feeling.

They did not STRIVE TO ENSURE that these shitty games would work, they just happened to share a similar back end as the ones that were focused on.

Anyone who thinks that Barbie or XXX were high on any list are completely insane. The 360 Launch was flawed in many ways (I've been a bit too busy to notice.) but this is not an example of such.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:35 / 12.12.05
It's a hardware issue. I've lost track of who did what now - tech spec fatigue set in some time back - but it's a result of Microsoft going for a cheaper option where the outsourcing of graphics hardware in the 360 is concerned, leading to their having to emulate the Xbox hardware on the 360 in order to get games from the previous generation working on it.

Like how the Sonic compilations for the Cube and PS2 work by fooling those consoles into thinking that they're actually Megadrives through emulation, because neither has much in common with Sega's old console.
 
 
---
17:54 / 12.12.05
Ahh, thanks for that. I googled part of your post and ended up here, and even though it still seems pretty stupid, I think a lot of the problem is explained.
 
 
Saveloy
09:22 / 14.12.05
Any thoughts on the Revolution's controller? Excited, appalled, indifferent?

Looks bloody fantastic to me, but I'm nervous for Nintendo - I wonder if the non-gamers that they want to attract won't see it as a gimmick with limited novelty value.
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
13:46 / 14.12.05
The G&G discussion on the Revolution controller.
 
 
Saveloy
14:09 / 14.12.05
Aha! Thanks. (I did look, btw, but obviously not far enough).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:13 / 28.01.06
I have 360.

First impressions - it's all about the dashboard. More than Live, more than HDTV (bearing in mind that I'm currently only able to use it on a standard def screen anyway) that's the thing that's going to give the console its personality. I'm quite impressed with it, although you can see right away why there have been so many reports of crashes and bugs in games - the implications of allowing the user to jump straight to the dash from any game simply by pressing a button on the controller must be a fucking nightmare for developers to deal with.

It's a really well-designed interface from a user's point of view (although I've not yet found out where in it I'm supposed to go in order to download the patches for the backwards-compatibility). Simple to navigate, attractive, functional. Ties into your Live profile seamlessly.

Easy to lose time just playing around in there, to be honest. I'll admit to being more than a little excited by the prospect of having the latest version of Jeff Minter's Virtual Light Machine in there (for those not in the know, think the visualisations in Windows Media Player, only gorgeous, interactive and designed by a Welsh, farmyard animal-obsessed acid casualty). Makes me wonder if his abandoned Gamecube project could have worked after all and hope that it appears in some shape or form as a Live Arcade download on this console - there are still hints of it in the tunnels that appear in some of the patterns here.

Live Arcade - fantastic. Seems that the hard drive (if you've got the Premium pack) comes pre-loaded with one of the puzzle games - HexicHD, or something. Addictive, interesting little game it is, too. Great to be able to download free trial versions of the Live Arcade titles instead of having to make a blind purchase - I was thinking about paying for Mutant Storm Reloaded, but having played the trial version realise that I may as well stick with Robotron 2084 and Smash TV.

Changes to your Live profile. Wider range of avatars than available on Xbox.com = good. Still far from extensive. Racking up achievements in games is good fun, but the whole Gamerpoints thing seems like a waste of time. Maybe if companies start releasing games that give you free unlocks depending on how many you've collected...

Control pad = superb in almost every way. The only minor complaint I have is the placement of the Start and Back buttons - I prefer the Xbox S-pad for that - but it might just be a matter of getting used to them.

Had a fright just after I'd first plugged the console in. Was linking my old Live profile to it. Had to download an update. Progress bar's about 75% of the way along and the machine seemed to die - just turned off without any warning, without me pressing anything I shouldn't have. turned itself back on and appears to have put all the settings back to their defaults - I got taken straight to the "choose your langauge" screen again. Bit of panic set in. Did that, was greeted by a new screen that I hadn't seen before. Seems that the reset was part of the process of updating. Stupid that nobody thought to have it inform the user that it'd have to reset for the changes to take effect, rather than just doing it without mentioning it.

Like I say, don't know what the emulation stuff is like yet. I *do* know about the rumours that Microsoft is already starting to try and back out of their previous promise that they'd eventually have every Xbox game working on the new console, and looking at how they started I'd have to say that I think there could well be a lot of truth to them. we'll see - it's not like I was going to get rid of the old Xbox anyway.

Games-wise, I bought Ridge Racer 6. The increase in definition is clear even on my standard def telly - everything looks super-crisp. Detail is right up, draw distance stretches to the horizon (there's some pop-out on scenery in the rear-view mirror, but nothing like that in the main viewpoint), frame rate is rock solid and never drops at all.

Funny thing is, while it's undoubtedly one of the best-looking games ever made (to date), you don't tend to notice it while playing. Maybe it's a sign that I'm getting old, maybe it's because you can't afford to take in much of the detail when you're playing a racing game, maybe it's because the original Xbox clearly still had some utapped oomph, but this feels like a logical next step in visuals, rather than any great leap. Evolution, not revolution. It's all about minute detail and snazzy, spoddy effects (soft shadowing and that sort of thing).

Game's dead good fun, but too slow to begin with. I know from past experience that Ridge only really comes alive once you move up to the faster car classes, but that knowledge doesn't take the slightly dull edge off the initial stages.

So. Right now, it's a cautious thumbs up.I'm not blown away by the new tech, but I *do* feel that I've bought into something that can legitimately be called next-gen. And I honestly do think that the dashboard shows a possible future for videogame hardware that I've not come across before.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:19 / 28.01.06
Oh, yeah. Nothing can prepare you for how enormous the PSU is. Seriously - I'd seen photographs of it with points of reference and I still couldn't help but gawp at it when I took it out of the box. Honest to fuck, I own entire consoles that take up less space.

Also: If you're thinking of getting one, go for the Premium pack and don't even consider the Core. It's far cheaper in the long run.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
18:53 / 28.01.06
Yay!

I was wondering when a Barbeloid or two would be joining me on the 360's sparkling shores.

I'm currently hip-deep in a Marble Blast Ultra obsession. Great fun in single player and outrageous fun in multiplayer.

Drop a friends request at KidInsomnia if you'd like.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:03 / 04.02.06
I've had it crash on me three times now.

First time was after a race on RR6. On the results screen, accidentally chose to save the race replay. Cancelled that decision and hit the icon for returning to the World Xplorer mode. Game freezes up. Can't do anything except turn the console off and on again.

Second time was also in RR6. The online mode is great when it works, but it has a habit of throwing you out of the lobby every now and again, telling you that it lost the connection to the host. Happened a couple of times in a row to me. The host sent me another invite, which I accepted. Get to the 'Now Loading' screen, can chat to all the others in the lobby while it's loading. Disc suddenly stops spinning in the 360's drive and I can hear a click every couple of seconds, like it's trying to start up again. Can still chat with everybody else, but I'm stuck on that one screen. Hit the dashboard button on the controller (that silver 360 logo thing in the middle of it) and everything freezes again.

Third time was with the Project Gotham Racing 3 demo I downloaded from the marketplace last night. In the middle of a race, decided I wanted to have a crack on one of the Live Arcade games instead. Hit the dashboard button, selected 'return to dashboard', everything froze up again. To be fair, I was expecting it to have a bit of difficulty that time, but it's still shit that it happened. That was exactly the sort of thing the just-released auto-update was supposed to fix and it's not like the PGR3 demo is new content.

Oh, and the one time I turned the console on with the RR6 disc in the drive, it seemed to forget that it was a 360. 'This game can only be played on an Xbox 360', or something similar, like the Xbox emulation had kicked in and confused everything. Only happened the once, that.

No problems with Amped 3 yet (well, the soundtrack has stopped playing once, but that felt like a software issue), nor any of the Live Arcade games, so it could just be RR6 or my copy of it that's causing some hassle. Still, it only confirms that the hardware *is* as painfully unstable as has been reported.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:58 / 04.02.06
I've played a 360 at my friend's place a bunch of times. Sometimes they have PGR3 on, but that's pretty boring.

Everyone always plays GEO WARS instead.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:20 / 04.02.06
I already got a bit tired of Geometry Wars. It's fun and all, but I'm not a fan of how enemy waves spawn at random (also, you're at a disadvantage playing it on a 4:3 TV compared to those on widescreen, as far as I can tell). Much prefer Mutant Storm Reloaded, although that's twice the price.

And Smash TV keeps handing me my arse.

I can see how some won't like the way that PGR3 plays - it's much more reserved than something like Ridge - but you can't deny that it looks incredible, from a detail point of view. Again, it's a compeltely different thing from Ridge - where that uses the 360 to make everything look razor-sharp and locked at 60 frames per second, it doesn't do much else.

It's a bit like the fairly lazy shift up from the Playstation to the PS2 in the latter's early days - games that take graphical effects from the earlier hardware and simply pump them up to their limit. PGR3, in comparison, pushes out visuals so far in advance of those possible on the last gen that I find it a bit boggling - struggling to make it around the one course in the demo without smacking into the walls because my brain can't get my eyes to stop looking at the truly photo-realistic scenery and focus on the track instead.

The in-car view, in particular, is fucking stunning. It's one of the first games I've seen that manages to make things look real by remembering that real-world stuff always has a layer of dirt. The windscreen is the killer.
 
 
netbanshee
21:51 / 04.02.06
I don't have a 360 at home but my coworker has quite the sweet setup at his house: 42" LCD HDTV, surround sound and a 360 jacked in. Gaming at 720p widescreen is quite nice and makes a difference in games like DOA4 and Geometry Wars (as mentioned before). I've seen a good portion of the current 360 library at his house and have to say that MS's console had a pretty good launch overall. I'd comment more on the Live service if I had a box of my own, but from what I've seen and read of it, I'm fairly impressed.

The only game that really got me going (beyond GW) was Condemned: Criminal Origins as it seems that many games are sequels or bumps in presentation. I like the approach, mood, texture and concept. When I heard about the game prior to launch I got excited since SEGA was gonna be bringing us some next-gen horror. I was wondering if this was gonna bring me one title closer to plunking down funds for a 360, but I just saw mention of Condemned coming over to PS3, my preferred next-gen console.

Heard that a new update to the dashboard just came out... anyone having any good experiences with it?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:09 / 05.02.06
The update was more of a bug fix than anything else. It's meant to sort out the crashes caused by interacting with the dash while in-game.

From what I've seen, it's clearly not worked. Had another freeze last night when the 360 lost the wireless connection here and I tried to log it back into Live.
 
 
Anthony
10:01 / 06.02.06
have had that problem with PGR3 but none of the others.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:50 / 08.02.06
Really suggest that anybody thinking of getting a 360 holds off for at least a couple of months now. Mine's just crashed again. Reading a thread on a small gaming board I'm a member of, out of the estimated sixteen people there who've bought the console, six have had to get replacements from Microsoft because they were faulty. Even better, two of those have then had to get replacements for the replacements when *they* died on them.

It really is an absolute shambles of a launch.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:08 / 01.06.06
Microsoft's most public Xbox 360 head takes some of what Sony's PR people have been smoking, pisses off/on community.

You've got to love the claim that they "under-promised and over-delivered" on backwards-compatibility. This is the company that originally said that their aim was to have every Xbox game working on the 360, or failing that every big-selling Xbox game, yeah? Leaving aside for a second the fact that it's literally impossible to over-deliver on that kind of statement, the machine's compatibility with Xbox games is still pathetic by any standards.

So very depressed with the state of the whole medium right now. Finding out that two of the three major players in the hardware game have so little respect for their customers that they don't only believe this shit, they're ready and willing to go on record with it, isn't helping to lift my spirits any.
 
 
rising and revolving
20:09 / 01.06.06
Did you see the part where the Sony rep claimed that the PS2 invented 3D games, and Nintendo ripped them off? But they didn't cry back then, when Nintendo did that, so why is anyone making a fuss about the fact they pinched the Wii's functionality?

Oh. My. God.

The crazy pills are out in force.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:38 / 01.06.06
No! Oh, Christ. That wasn't Phil Harrison again, by any chance? I know there's an interview doing the rounds that I've not read yet, where he says something like "we were planning to put the motion sensor in the PS3 pad all along, it's not surprising that two companies came up with a simialr idea at the same time" even though developers have been claiming that they knew nothing at all about the pad having that functionality until the reveal at E3.

So either Harrison's talking his usual amount of bullshit, or else his company had the genius idea of not telling the people making games for their machine what that machine would actually be able to do.
 
 
netbanshee
23:08 / 01.06.06
Nintendo is surely the only company right now that's talking a fair game. On the developer tip, Iwata's comments are promising since there's a big future in a varied cost game market for consoles. It's making me wonder if some dev might be in my future which is kind of exciting. Wonder how hard it will be to get one's hands on a devkit.

I'm disappointed in Sony's approach since I'll have to wait till next Spring or Summer before I can jump into something so beefy and cash-hungry. I'll need to see some good titles and maybe a price revision or something to get me to fork over.

A Microsoft console is generally going to be third on my list. After hearing that backwards compatibility is a reluctant choice on their part, I have less reason to consider it.
 
 
chairmanWOW
13:49 / 07.06.06
Nintendo is surely the only company right now that's talking a fair game.

They should be, since they're peddling a console that basically a Gamecube in a new shell with an 'innovative' new controller. Apart from this new 'fantastical & amazing' controller what does this Wee do that the Gamecube couldn't? Aren't they supposed to push things forward?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:03 / 07.06.06
Um, that's what the controller's for.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
16:39 / 07.06.06
There's some good stuff in that Iwata interview:

Those with little gaming experience prefer watching someone else playing to playing the games themselves. Such is the status quo today. That is why we hoped to create an interface that would appeal to anyone.

When creating a packaged game to be priced at 5,000 yen, developers tend to feel the need to create a rich game. Yet it is possible to create a reasonably entertaining game in 2 months with a team of three. Offering such games for 500 yen over a network could lead to a reasonable number of people purchasing it. By offering an environment that allows this, we hope to encourage more developers to pursue basic yet enjoyable gameplay. Of course, content-rich games have their own merit, and I have no intention of discrediting them. Such games are important in their own right, and will continue to be in demand. Still – think about it – eating French cuisine or a full dinner each day would quickly lead to boredom, wouldn't it? You’ll want a simple bowl of rice and soup every now and then. Our intention with the "Wii" is to propose an alternate approach to gaming business, as the gaming industry is currently far too single-minded.

Users would wake up each morning, find the LED lamp on their Wii flashing, and know that Nintendo has sent them something. They would then be able to download the promotional demo from their Wii's to their Nintendo DS's.

We have nothing against advanced technology. Though many seem to feel that Nintendo is anti-technological, this is totally untrue. There are multiple ways in which you can apply new technology. Some design Formula 1 cars, others design hybrid cars. We have merely spent a lot of time discussing which approach would help us increase our customer base.

The current design for game controllers was determined by Nintendo, so some of our staff disagreed with changing it. Yet after some hands-on time with the prototypes, we knew we had a working formula. That is why I declared at last year's E3 that revolutionary interfaces will bring change to future games.


Nintendo=Fuck yes!

I love it. Especially the "we designed the controllers everybody uses, so fuck off" bit. It's so true. The Atari controllers were shit, and I remember what a breath of fresh air the NES controllers were when they came out. It was one of those "how did I ever play games without one of these" moments. Ditto the SNES controller, which put the Genesis pad to shame and started the whole trend of having mad fucking buttons crammed on the controller. The PS1 controller had the exact same layout with two extra shoulder buttons. Then the N64 came out and the combination of the analog stick controller (still my favorite video game controller evah!) and Mario 64 blew people away. Suddenly, Sony has a controller with two analog sticks (Ours is better because it has MORE! Geddit?). And here we are today. Has there ever been a sweet new controller style that wasn't Nintendo's idea?

I'm so jazzed about the Wii.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:56 / 07.06.06
put the Genesis pad to shame

Hmm - not so sure myself. What the SNES pad lacked was a decent directional control. These things should have diagonals - there's no excuse for there not being sections of the pad that you can press, easily and clearly, to get diagonal movement. You don't have that on the SNES pad and have to make do with fudging a diagonal by pressng two directions at once. It lacks precision. Sega's pads were far superior in this regard (the regular Megadrive/Genesis three button pad isn't a patch on the smaller six button version, which should be recognised as design classic, both in terms of looks and feel).

See also: Sony's Dual Shocks (which manage to go one worse by not only having four obvious directions instead of eight, but seperate them out into smaller sections that look and feel like seperate entities).

Also, despite the general horror of Sony's pads, they were the first to popularise hand grips. You've got to give them that (even if they're not great for certain gametypes).
 
 
Spaniel
18:54 / 07.06.06
I'm so jazzed about the Wii.

So am I.

I'm not sure I'm allowed to have one, however
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
20:26 / 07.06.06
the regular Megadrive/Genesis three button pad isn't a patch on the smaller six button version, which should be recognised as design classic, both in terms of looks and feel.

Agreed, but weren't those released later, after the SNES controller? I always thought that the six-button Genesis pad was a reaction to the SNES pad's multi-buttony goodness.

Also, despite the general horror of Sony's pads, they were the first to popularise hand grips. You've got to give them that

True, but their handgrips are hideously uncomfortable for me. I feel like I have to splay my elbows out to grip them properly. The way I usually hold them makes the grips dig into my palms and I hate it. The 64 and GC controllers, on the other hand, are wonderfully ergonomic for me.

Boboss- That's awful! Why not?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
20:30 / 07.06.06
And the analog sticks on the Dualshock are the worst ever. Floppy and unresponsive. I fucking hate them. The 64 analog was the best, IMHO, even though they were fragile. So tight and responsive. The XBox analogs are nice, too, but the buttons are absolute shit. And the original XBox pads were so ridiculously big, too. What was the deal with that? Were they designed for Larry Bird-size hands, or what?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:52 / 07.06.06
Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan of Sony's pads. It's just important to remember that they have set some design standards that have since been nabbed by the other players - the twin analogue stick was theirs first, too (and came in for some stick at the time, iirc, of the "just because Nintendo's pad has one stick, Sony reckon that two makes their pad twice as good" variety). There were a couple of nice ideas there, but the implementation has been woeful.

Xbox burger pads were MS fucking up, basically. If you look at them, the inspiration is pretty clear - they based the entire pad design around Sega's Dreamcast controllers (with the exception of the second stick). I've not got either to hand right now, but I think it even goes as far as using the same colours in the same order on the facia buttons. And that stupid great Xbox jewel thing in the centre of it - what's that if not a placeholder covering up teh lack of the DC pad's Virtual Memory Unit?

MS fucked up by basing their pad on something that was quite horrible in the first place, but also by following the accepted wisdom that American and European controllers must be half the size again of their Japanese equivalents. I'm sure that the superb S-pad was only originally intended for the Japanese market, with a limited quantity to be made available in the west as a special edition, until everybody who got hold of them made it clear to MS that this was the pad that they should have had as standard in every territory. And I do know people who still prefer the burger - its button layout is more suitable for 2D beat 'em ups than that of the S-pad. Still a million miles from perfect, but a couple of inches closer than the smaller pad.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:57 / 07.06.06
Sorry, forgot this:

Agreed, but weren't those released later, after the SNES controller? I always thought that the six-button Genesis pad was a reaction to the SNES pad's multi-buttony goodness.

Nah. Well, maybe. They were released to coincide with Street Fighter finally coming to the Megadrive. You can take that either way, I suppose - they were created to overcome a failing of the original pad, but they were also a poke in Nintendo's eye as SF had previously been an important exclusive title in the west. They were probably a bigger steal of NEC's six button PC Engine pad, though, which was also released to coincide with that console's own SF conversion (and which might have hit stores before even the SNES/SuFami release, I'm uncertain).

It's a lovely pad to use, regardless, and the basis of the greatest digital control pad ever made - the Japanese Saturn pad.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:23 / 14.07.06
I'm now high-deffed to the nines. It feels like one step forwards, two steps back.

Bought one of the Samsung 26" LCD models. 360, obviously, looks lush through it. Most of the games look significantly nicer than in standard def, although in a couple the difference is negligable. Those exceptions: Dead or Alive 4, which is bloody gorgeous whichever def it's being displayed in, and, bizarrely and unexpectedly, Project Gotham Racing 3. I've only had a quick go on PGR3, though, and in a car without a rear view mirror, so maybe the increased definition and widescreen image will have more impact if I put some more time into it.

Problem is, while the image the 360 pumps through it is stunning, anything else is shit. Xbox games display in black and white if you've got the console set to 60Hz, because the cable it's packaged with doesn't support the necessary output (either RGB or NTSC - I'm not sure which). New cable needed there, then. PS2 games look tatty, with textures turned into a blurry mess. New cable needed there, to. I expect the same is going to be true of the Gamecube.

SNES/Super Famicom works fine, but the image is seriously pixelated. PC Engine and Megadrive seem to suffer from interference. Saturn and PS1 have yet to be tried on it.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:37 / 26.08.06
Four in a row...

Thought I'd update Barbelith on my Amazing Xbox 360 Adventure.

Having become fed up with the increased frequency with which the disc drive was failing to load anything, I phoned up the support helpline. Went through a bunch of really obvious questions ("have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in again?") and eventually got them to agree that the machine was fucked and needed repairing.

They arrange for UPS to pick it up. UPS stick a packing slip through my door the day before they're due to collect, then fail to appear for the following week. I phone up Xbox support again and am told - after a couple of times being put on hold for ten minutes - that I need to phone UPS directly. Despite having been told to phone Xbox support if UPS failed to collect.

Anyway, it's finally collected. A week later, it comes back. Or, rather, somebody else's refurbished console comes back - different serial number, earlier date of manufacture. Yeah, earlier.

It crashes the next night, while I'm trying to view a friend's profile. It crashes again a couple of days later while playing an online Live Arcade game.

And then, when I go to plug the controller in to charge it up, I find that the faceplate is broken. Superglue and a random chunk of plastic to the rescue.

How's the rest of the 360-owning Barbelith membership faring?
 
  

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