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Pop Culture Entity

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04:49 / 26.05.05

But surely one of the points that Seth and Gypsy Lantern have made is that if you are going to do this, you will need to choose a "pop culture deity" that has had comparable impact upon your life to that of a God.

Why not choose one you'd like to help become a god?

Xyu, I'm totally in favor of magickal work on corporate egregores. Well done.

LVX23 seems to have thsi pretty well organized and since my summer is booked with travel, we'll tap him as nominal head of this exercise.

Uh... not sure I'm in a position to be the leader here.

Z, I've tended to have similar feelings, that there's both the Barbelith hypersigil of GM and the Barbelith "spirit" of the Forums here. It might be helpful to clearly identify both and consider where they overlap.

07:52 / 26.05.05

I'm not really sure that everyone does want to work with Barbelith, as there seems to be an effect of that egregore on shutting down group workings?

This is Strix' lone assertion, and has not been backed up in anything appraching a satisfactory manner. It's an assertion that I find utterly bizarre and unfounded.

I've worked with Barbelith from the Invisibles, which is detailed in the thread that Strix links to. That working was for a specific purpose and I got very specific results. This thread is potentially more interesting to me because it seems to be about establishing contact with no agenda other than building a relationship for its own sake and seeing what happens.

As far as discovering if there are any difference between Barbelith of the Invisibles and Barbelith the collective spirit of the message board... why not make an investigation into that the subject of the working? That would be a much better way of finding out than dry hypothesis.

I've had some limited contact with what appeared to be the spirit of the messageboard in some shared dream experiments a few years back. Essentially a representation of this messageboard was accessed using shamanic journey techniques, in which certain parts of the functionality of this place appeared with animal characteristics. The board was more a living environment than an entity in its own right. I don't know whether things have changed in the intervening years, or what relationship that/this environment has with Barbelith of the Invisibles.

08:12 / 26.05.05

There IS something bigger, more mysterious, and more phenomenal than our selves. It is called, THE UNIVERSE. And that which is BEYOND the UNIVERSE. The folks of religion seem to not see the universe as really all that mysterious and impressive, so they have to give it a window dressing.

You are missing the point. Absurdly.

Oh, btw, this is a thread for people who are intending to work with a pop culture entity as an experiment. It was not, (I'm quite surre of this, having read the absract), an invitation for you to come in and dis everyone here, and proclaim them "fearful" and egotistical.

Fuck off and do it then. From here it looks like a thread of people failing to organise a piss-up in a brewery, or a ritual in a temple. I posted my observation on what I thought the stumbling blocks might be and suggested an alternative angle of approach, based on my own thoughts about deity and my observations on the nature of relationships with deity - which for a fleeting moment seemed to resuscitate some enthusiasm and steer the thread away from laughing at torture victims. I'm sorry I fucking bothered.

08:23 / 26.05.05

As far as discovering if there are any difference between Barbelith of the Invisibles and Barbelith the collective spirit of the message board... why not make an investigation into that the subject of the working? That would be a much better way of finding out than dry hypothesis.

This is a great idea, although I've already done some of that, and found them to be quite different. The Invisibles Barbelith, I've worked with. The forum Barbelith has shown up on it's own, usually if I'm in conflict with someone on the board. I've found them to be quite different in experience and character. I haven't WORKED with the forum Barbelith, but I have communicated with it. I don't want to go into specifics however, because I'm concerned that it will contaminate the future working.

I think that it would be fascinating to see their relationship, if any. I agree that there would be much to learn from something like that.....

Another thing about it, it would be a challenging working. If the intent is to learn about their relationship, how do we do that? Have them meet and record their reactions? Thing about that is, my experience with the Mythos Barbelith is one of a transformational force, and a download experience. If Barbelith the Mythos downloaded into Barbelith the Forum, the results could be both interesting and risky.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:59 / 26.05.05

There IS something bigger, more mysterious, and more phenomenal than our selves. It is called, THE UNIVERSE. And that which is BEYOND the UNIVERSE. The folks of religion seem to not see the universe as really all that mysterious and impressive, so they have to give it a window dressing.

What a... gosh, what an odd post.

I find myself in an interesting position to comment on this at the moment, having recently been ganked unceremoniously away from pop-culture magic into more "religious" entity work.

I can honestly say that I still see the Universe as being as big and mysterious as it was before--in fact moreso, because I now find that it contains beings like the one I've been talking to. (There's a massive difference between working with Magneto and working with entities like the Northern pantheon; I really feel that I'm working with a something that has its own personality and independant existence.)

Personally, I think GL's point about picking an aspect of the Universe that you want to celebrate and finding a pop-culture figure to hang it on was spot-on. That's pretty close to the kind of work I was doing with Marge from Fargo--in this case, the aspects of existence that I was celebrating were personal qualities like strength, courage, caring, devotion and so forth. Sort of a dual purpose thing--celebrate all that good stuff, and maybe take a little of it into myself.

(O/T: of course, one now realises that performing ritual workings involving a Freya analogue and lots of coffee was just asking for trouble...)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:06 / 26.05.05

(Oh, and a belated ick for the torture victim thing. s.h.e.r.m.a.n, you can do better than that. I know you can.)

10:30 / 26.05.05

What a... gosh, what an odd post.

I was going to let this go, but I feel I need to make a comment here. My post was in response to a statement that people who work with entities in pop culture fail to see anything greater than their own selves. I would disagree with that point. I also disagree with the point tha people who do said magick are both fearful of that greater all, and egotistical. My personal opinion is that those who work with entities other than those who are traditional, as well as those who chose to NOT work with deity also see something bigger then their selves. The window dressing comment? Well, I was pissed.....

Now just as a question, can we focus on the working being set up here? Yes, I know people will say that I brought it up, but that is not factual. Trace the comments back, and you'll see what ticked me. Gypsy Lantern made disparaging comments about chaos magic practitioners, I shot back with my comment. She had a shot at me, and I decided to let her have the last word on it. I'm willing to fight this out in the Postmodern thread, if that HAS to be, but please, not here. It's threadrot. The people here have a right to set this up, IMO, with a minimum of interference.

10:36 / 26.05.05

Have them meet and record their reactions?

Have they ever been photographed together?

My experience has found them to be distinct, not only in terms of separate but also in terms of type. It's like comparing VALIS to a particularly weird community hall...

Gypsy, don't get in a strop. I'm entirely in agreement with your perspective as you've posted it. I agree that this project is going to need someone strong to get it organised. At the moment it reads like a bunch of people talking at each other.

Does anyone have the time to actually do something with this?

10:55 / 26.05.05

Have they ever been photographed together?

Damn, now that would be a photo......

My point was, just what sort of methodology shuld be used in order to gain an understanding of their relationship? Granted, my suggestion was, well, bizarre, but hey, I've been up for a long time, and I was just throwing out ideas...

If the intent is to discover their differences or similarities, then their needs to be a methodology to do that.

11:29 / 26.05.05

My post was in response to a statement that people who work with entities in pop culture fail to see anything greater than their own selves.

Please point out the relevant section of my post that contains these words you are putting in my mouth. My criticisms were explicitly about the prevalent tendency to approach deity in terms of function rather than celebration. Out for what you can get, as opposed to what you can learn and experience. I brought this up, because I thought a different perspective might refocus a floundering thread. Which it seemed to do for five minutes.

I also disagree with the point tha people who do said magick are both fearful of that greater all, and egotistical. My personal opinion is that those who work with entities other than those who are traditional, as well as those who chose to NOT work with deity also see something bigger then their selves.

I don't even know how to answer your comments as I don't recognise how the points you are making actually relate to my original post. I seem to agree with the points you are making, but they don't really connect up with what I actually posted.

Gypsy Lantern made disparaging comments about chaos magic practitioners

No I didn't, for once. I observed that there is a widespread tendency among contemporary magicians to think about deity in terms of functionality rather than exploration of mysteries - and commented that chaos magicians might be particularly disposed towards this approach, given the bias towards a utilitarian form of 'results magic' within many key chaos magic texts. I would hardly call that disparaging.

I shot back with my comment. She had a shot at me, and I decided to let her have the last word on it.

How infinitely generous of you. Remind me to send you a nice cake.

I'm willing to fight this out in the Postmodern thread, if that HAS to be, but please, not here. It's threadrot. The people here have a right to set this up, IMO, with a minimum of interference.

The people here don't seem to be setting up a damn thing at the moment, and if anyone is rotting this thread, it's you. My initial post was on topic. You might not have personally liked some of my points, but it seems to have given other people some food for thought with regards to the topic abstract.

Unconditional Love

12:33 / 26.05.05

if we were going to work with barbelith, it needs to be a fresh working, with no attachment to old workings, it needs to be a fresh thread, the workings need to be organised only by those actively working, and decided in pm, or in the thread, i suggest some uniformity in how barbelith is approached, and id suggest that she is a goddess, id suggest her colours are red pink and purple.

id suggest a chant of *bar bay lee if* each part held for as long as possible in one exhalation.resonate the vowels of the first 3 and the fffff of the last pushing the tongue between the lips. like a serpent hiss but in an fff rather than ssss.

id suggest the creation of a symbolic diagram/ sigil to represent her.

i envision her dancing with a serpent that is red and yellow incolour, she is bare breasted. behind her is a tree.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:15 / 26.05.05

Wait a second... Barbelith's a girl?

Unconditional Love

16:33 / 26.05.05

well at least to me. shes a very attractive lady, and great at dancing, an uncoiling of serpentine communication.

18:37 / 26.05.05

That'd be the Barbelo, then, most likely.

If'n you're into that.

19:40 / 26.05.05

I'm not really sure that everyone does want to work with Barbelith, as there seems to be an effect of that egregore on shutting down group workings?

This is Strix' lone assertion, and has not been backed up in anything appraching a satisfactory manner. It's an assertion that I find utterly bizarre and unfounded.

Yes, I may be the only one who mentioned it, Seth, but tell me; how many group workings have been done outside the Barbelith egregore since people started working with it? None. You may chalk it up as simple coincidence, but I don't considering the intial choice to use Barelith was done in the fashion of replacing another group working entity. Magick certainly draws on these types of subtleties and intent is everything.

19:46 / 26.05.05

I think the femininity of Barbelith makes sense. It is referred to as placental, after all. Barbelillith?

20:15 / 26.05.05

[ot]I am finding it completely ironic that I was nick-named Barbelillith, by one of my nemeses.[/ot]

22:13 / 26.05.05

Exactly how is the lack of group workings on the Barbelith Temple Forum evidence of anything? Does anyone have any specific evidence of the Barbelith working squashing all other attempts at group work?

--

23:28 / 26.05.05

The last really big Barbelith group working I can recall is that thing where we tried to keep Bush out of office for a second term.

Okay, so the X-Men we're not.

23:34 / 26.05.05

There a lot of strong personalities who are more used to doing things their own way than coming to consensus (myself included). Someone upstream mentioned the herding of cats...

There have been a number of successful group workings round these parts. I recall many leading up to the last US Pres election. But creating and patronizing servitors/egregores isn't really what I would consider a group working. GEK is really the only successful entity created here that I'm aware of and I wouldn't consider that a group working either. Did anyone ever coordinate a time that multiple people would invoke GEK (or the Transducer for that matter) and petition for a specific, pre-determined consensual outcome? Just because many people work with the same entity doesn't mean it's a group working.

There does seem to be some indication here that we need to be a bit more careful about the entities we create. I was only half-joking when I said (in the other thread) that Peace Mango is hungry and feeding off bad vibes. Has this thread been hijacked by an unresolved conflict about magickal entities, or has it been hijacked by the entities themselves? If the latter, perhaps we need to step away from Barbelith and shut down the Transducer. Or maybe we need to create a servitor designed to resolve conflicts in the Temple - a sub-routine of the local Barbelith.

23:35 / 26.05.05

Heh, right on, Sypha. You gotta try though.

--

23:42 / 26.05.05

Yeah, it was worth a shot. I even voted for Kerry, which made me ill... Anything to wipe that smug grin off all those Neocon talking head/radio freaks (ever notice how all those guys have radio shows with "millions of listeners"? I guess a million people CAN be wrong after all).

21:18 / 27.05.05

So what's the verdict here? Have we settled on something, or given up, or are we still taking suggestions?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:31 / 27.05.05

At least two splinter-groups got fed up with hearding cats and went off to do their own pop thing. Jack Frost Posse vs Little Green Friends of Yoda.

22:42 / 27.05.05

Yeah, I think people are taking the lead and being proactive with whichever entity appeals to them. Which is good, because at least then everyone gets what they want.

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