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Underground > Comic Books >

Warren Ellis writes JLA: Classified

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13:04 / 26.04.05

Never thought I'd see this...Ellis writes JLA (non-Elseworlds).

solicits:

JLA CLASSIFIED #10

DC Comics has released a five page preview of July’s JLA Classified #10, written by Warren Ellis, with art by Butch Guice, with a cover by Michael Stribling.

The solicitation for the issue reads:

Kicking off the 6-part "New Maps of Hell," written by Warren Ellis (TRANSMETROPOLITAN, OCEAN) with art by Butch Guice (Ruse, OLYMPUS)! In Metropolis, Lois Lane and Clark Kent investigate a rash of suicides at LexCorp, while Batman tracks an assassin with a deadly weapon in Gotham City. And on Themyscira, Wonder Woman is playing host to newly arrived academics, when a massive explosion hits, destroying the tranquility of Paradise Island.

These three seemingly unrelated events tie together in ways that must be seen to be believed!

---

uhh, ok DC. I'm sure it must be seen to be believed, like so many things in life.

The cover is kinda crap, very Mike Saenz SHATTER & DIGITAL JUSTICE from the 80s computer-drawn comics era. Here's the preview:

Cranky Batman.

13:25 / 26.04.05

Uh oh.

Decompression.

Strikes.

Back.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:27 / 26.04.05

I wonder which New Scientist article will be transcribed in full as a monologue in this one!

13:59 / 26.04.05

To be fair, if 'Red' had been a oneshot it would have been miserable and if 'Angel Stomp Future' had been six issues it would have been unbearably crap. Warren's done many a length, and it usually works for me.
I didn't read the last half of 'Transmet' until it was finished and collected, and I didn't read Ultimate such and such until all the issues were out... and they read just fine. On an issue by issue basis they may have left me just disatisfied enough to really want the next issue, but not blah enough for me to drop cold.
Not the best writer on the planet, but I'm not sure I've been entirely let down by anything he's done since that 'Storm' mini. Or the second half of the second issue of 'Ruins'.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:08 / 26.04.05

"Time to go to work."

14:20 / 26.04.05

>> I wonder which New Scientist article will be transcribed in full as a monologue in this one!

Sad and true...

madfigs #32, now with wasabi

14:38 / 26.04.05

Is this book going to be in regular DC continuity now? The "I Can't Believe it's not the Justice League" arc was definitely off in its own little Elseworld of sorts, and even Grant's three issues had John Stewart for some reason. I don't plan on buying Ellis' run, but I'd rather see future writers not be limited to the grim & gritty reality that is DC these days.

15:38 / 26.04.05

>> I wonder which New Scientist article will be transcribed in full as a monologue in this one!

"Sad and true..."

What have you guys got against New Scientist its a great magazine... oh wait !

15:42 / 26.04.05

Grant's three issues had John Stewart because John Stewart joined the JLA over thirty issues ago as their official Green Lantern.

As for Warren's arc, I can't say I'll be picking it up, especially in singles form. Perhaps if they'd paired him with a better artist I'd look at it, but I'm not sure if it's worth it, and if it's only about the "Big Three" it's not much of a JLA story, is it?

15:45 / 26.04.05

Haus:

I know, "time to go to work"(!!), that made me laugh so hard with it's ineptness.

17:07 / 26.04.05

The fact that they gave him 6 issues and not 3 shows he's going to draw this story out. The only cool thing about this is the rero look of batman's costume. I wonder who's idea it was to bring this one back?

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:54 / 27.04.05

I give it three posts and counting until somebody says "I bet you'd all love this if it was by Grant Morrison!"

08:48 / 27.04.05

'He puts on costume'

'He drive through Gotham'

'He enter Commish Gord's office'

( Knock yourself out chief, x Warren.)

I could be wrong about this, but don't comic book writers get paid by the page ?

If so, the man's a genius !!!

Haus of Mystery

12:32 / 27.04.05

I bet you'd all love this if it was by John Byrne.

13:07 / 27.04.05

Alex, 3 double page spreads. One issue of UFF. Need I say more?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

14:21 / 27.04.05

If this was by Grant Morrison it'd have a better title and things would happen. And I'd buy it.

Ellis is the worst thing to happen to comics in years. He's offensively b... or... i... n... g...

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

14:39 / 27.04.05

I mean seriously - has he written one thing that hasn't involved a blatant mary sue? One thing that's moved at a snappy pace, one thing that hasn't taken the magic out of superheroes by explaining in grizzly detail how their powers work? I don't need to know that Mr Fantastic has his organs replaced with a germ sac or whatever, Warren. He stretches! Write a fucking fun story and get on with it! Dickhead spends so long justifying all these terribly unrealistic superhero concepts to his swelly overfed brain that he forgets he's here to write a fucking story to entertain. And his decompression legacy has spread like the clap to Bendis, who's writting half of Marvel's line at a snail's pace. Ugh.

I hear this is old material DC have had hanging around for a while before he signed to Marvel. Doesn't bode well for JL:C - I thought this was going to be a fun book, but it looks like it's just a clearing shop...

Haus of Mystery

15:22 / 27.04.05

Planetary is good. His Authority run was semi-good. When he wants to he can churn out decent stuff.

Haus of Mystery

15:23 / 27.04.05

Oh, and I don't think Bendis needed any help with decompressed storytelling.

15:35 / 27.04.05

"Explain to me how this is worth my time."--I'm reminded of the comment in that one guy's hyperactive review of COUNTDOWN. The one that says that Batman is such a great detective that he doesn't like hearing facts about crimes.

I like PLANETARY and all, but it's a wacky world in which a writer who does nothing but complain about how stupid he thinks superhero comics are gets to write about Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman for six issues.

The art's nice, though. Love the rendition of the Batcave.

15:39 / 27.04.05

Iron Man #3 was pretty super-boring, eh?

Still. He's alright. I love his hair.

19:52 / 27.04.05

In Iron Man #4 the Mandarin tries to stop Tony from switching to Pay As You Go.

Not liking Asshole-Bats* either but I have to admit I'd find it hard balancing between a guy who wants to help and still keep up some boogeymanish character armour.

*Who, frankly, is too much like AzBats. I thought DC got that kind of grim grittiness out of their system years ago.

21:18 / 27.04.05

I never got Ellis, when he was doing the Hell-thing series for Marvel way back and people were first talking about him, yeah he seemed okay, but nothing special. But the issue of Planetary (might be 14?) where the Planetary's Thor's Hammer analogy features was one of the best issues of a comic I have ever seen - not sure if down to the artist, or the writting but it blew me away. I haven't followed too much of his stuff since. This looks slow and pedestrian, which seems to be a common complaint about the man, however, I have found the 3-4 page previews of things to be a bit of a pain of late, they can kill a good story stone dead, or make something look a lot worse than it actually is. I'll probably get the first issue, but it is a bit pony looking to have a JLA story which seems to feature a very lazy batman gets dressed quarter of a book (warming up the car was about the only original seeming idea about the whole thing, but sure this has been done before).

22:57 / 27.04.05

I really liked it. The suiting-up sequence had a nice cinematic feel to it. I've been enjoying his decompression stuff - there's a thoughtfulness to it that appeals.

And I think he's writing a lot of superhero stuff at the moment because he's a jobbing writer and he had a go at not doing the pervert-suit stuff but it wasn't making the money for him in the way he'd hoped, so he's reluctantly gone back to the fight comics for the time being. Sort of a step-back-to-leap, if I'm understanding him correctly. He'll be out of superheroes fairly soon, I reckon.

I think the explainy stuff is mainly because he's pretty much a science fiction writer.

m.

11:44 / 28.04.05

Has Ellis written fast-paced stuff, it was asked ? Yes, the start of Transmet, and Planetary in places. Has he realised that he can get away with padding stuff out ? Oh, I think so.
Shame, as many of his ideas strike me as pretty interesting.

And the whole ‘decompressed’ tag strikes me as a self-justifying nonsense; it suggests that comics prior to this ‘phase’ were compressed in some way. Which they weren’t, really, were they?
But they were probably better value for money.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:50 / 28.04.05

And on Themyscira...

So as a matter of interest, how many minutes did it stay destroyed for after Our Worlds At War then?

17:09 / 28.04.05

Let's see. I think the goddesses of Olympus and Heliopolis announced themselves to Artemis, the redhead, somewhere during that big Jimenez Girl Frenzy fight on Manhattan.... Then Diana ventures to Themyscira to check on things, and finds it floating in the clouds.

I'm forced to assume that Themyscira was approximately 20-25 miles in surface area, with mountain mass extending downwards and upwards. If 50% was burned or trashed in space, that leaves enough potential surface area for a series of floating/orbitting materia for the construction found in the following issue.

Paradise Island was trashed for an approx four issues.

Then Rucka had Hera kill it in a jealous rage.

I have no idea where it stands now. But I for one liked the Jimenez run. A lot.

17:21 / 28.04.05

I have no idea where it stands now.

Actually it's sort of floating off the coast of Virginia (I think) at the moment as a small cluster of islands; surrounded by the U.S. Navy.

22:50 / 28.04.05

I don't understand this "value for money" thing when it comes to decompression vs. whatever the opposite is. How are you measuring that? (No, really, I'm interested, that's not just a rhetorical question). What does a slower-paced Ellis comic not have that one you'd consider "good value" does?

m.

00:06 / 29.04.05

What I think DaveBCooper is on about when he says more "compressed" comics are a better value for your money is that you get more plot in each issue.

In the course of 5 pages in the preview, 1.) Bruce goes down into the Batcave 2.) gets a call from the police 3.) puts his costume on 4.) drives to the scene of the crime 5.) knocks out a security guard.

A 60s Batman story could probably have condensed this sequence down to a single page, possibly skipping steps 3 and 4 entirely. Bruce could also possibly be in the Batcave to begin with, negating the need for step 1.

Therefore, more compressed storytelling delivers more plot per page, is the argument. As such, a compressed version of whatever this story is going to be about would not need to be six issues long. Even if it was only condensed to where the story was half as long, that's 50% less money you'd be spending in order to get the same plot. If you read primarily for plot, decompression is less cost-effective.

Of course, the counterargument is that decompression allows for more cinematic storytelling, more character development and "natural" dialogue, and larger artwork. More showing and less telling. More "sophisticated" storytelling, some would argue.

So I see both sides of the argument, but as for this particular example, I've seen Batman put on his costume and fight guards who pose no real threat to him enough times that I really don't need to see it in this issue; also, the scene doesn't really show these elements in any particularly novel or interesting way. I'd rather get to the point of this particular story right away than spend time on what seems like filler.

05:05 / 29.04.05

yeah, i thought it was a plot thing. thanks for that.

i definitely think you need to read warren's superhero stuff in a way that's different to other superhero gear, and that way is a way that I like. All comes down to taste, in the end, don't it?

m.

07:36 / 29.04.05

Yep, John Octave’s hit the nail on the head; if I pay £2 for a 24-page comic, I don’t want three to six pages of it to be someone lighting up a cigarette and pulling on their coat or whatever. I want something to be actively happening and propelling the story along.

In that regard, I think a lot of Ellis’s work is stunningly poor value compared with – to take a similar format – an issue of Promethea or Sleeper or the like. I know there’s a limit to the number of words a comic panel can reasonably bear (I think it seems to be something like 25, but that’s a rough guess, and large chunks of Cerebus, for example, go way beyond this), but to have several pages where very little of any consequence happens, be it in plot terms or characterisation or whatever, smacks of padding.

It’s a personal thing, obviously, but I think that comics need to be a decent value-for-money proposition if they’re to ‘compete’ with video games etc, as people often say is the case. I’m not keen to lash out money for a comic where I turn the story pages as fast as I flip past the adverts, and Ellis’s work frequently necessitates that – and when it doesn’t, I often find I’m more likely to be dwelling on the art (Ellis has worked with some very talented artists, Cassaday and Robertson being the examples which spring most readily to mind). And leaning on the artist in that way isn’t a good thing either.

It’s not just the readers ‘waiting for the trade paperback’ that’s damaging sales of monthly comics, it’s also the people WRITING for the trades, and I think Ellis is very guilty of this. Which, as I said in a previous post, I think is a shame – I often find his stories and ideas interesting, and have found myself nodding in agreement many times with his arguments about the mechanics of comics as an industry, in writings like ‘Come In Alone’. But I stopped buying his work in monthly format a number of years ago, and since the end of Transmet (the last few pages are a PERFECT example of what I don’t like) I have serious reservations about buying his new stuff in any form, as the trades may be better paced, but they still feel like there are wasted pages in there.

13:23 / 29.04.05

I don't get the plot=story-value.
'Le Samurai' may be one of the best damn movies ever made, and Alan lies there, virtually unmoving, how long?
It's like saying all paintings should be judged on how photorealist they can be, or how many brushstrokes can be crammed onto the canvas. Maybe it works, but not always, and not the only qualifier.
'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern...', 'Lost Highway', 'The Ticket That Exploded', 'Soft Machine', 'The Hitchhiker's Guide...' Trilogy of five, 'The Long Goodbye' and 'Night of the Hunter'... am I alone in these sprawling/complicated/nonexistent/nonstandard plots not taking away from my enjoyment of the works, whatsoever?
The last Neko Case album didn't have much of a plot, either, but it didn't kill it for me. I can't remember the last time Mike Kelley had a solid plot in a piece, but, nope, still not missing it.
Now, to be fair, this was not the most intriguing preview for me, either, though it does fit in with Ellis' bit, a year or so back, of taking on superfolk by focusing on the differences and purposes of their long underwear union suits. To blame it all on 'not enough plot' or 'I've seen Batman put on a shirt and drive before' is just kinda...
But, my heart of hearts was something I cobbled together and put in an installation back in artschool, so I'm biased. This isn't five hours of biblical porn backed by a full orchestra and color-coded with special political messages and cut/up dialogue. After that kind of thing, a little pacing and confidence in letting visuals tell a story isn't going to bother me, much.
And, having just read 'Scars' again last night, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

13:48 / 29.04.05

It's like saying all paintings should be judged on how photorealist they can be, or how many brushstrokes can be crammed onto the canvas. Maybe it works, but not always, and not the only qualifier.

When did this exchange of opinions on decompression become debate on objective perspective?

Some like, some don't. And comics ain't film, and most of this was bang fer buck anyway. Warren Ellis writes slow stories. Some are good cause they're slow, some make you think Ellis can't write fast storytelling.

Sunuvabitch should write a good fast action four-parter in Planetary just to shut us up.

14:11 / 29.04.05

Daytripper, I’ll cheerfully admit that I’m unfamiliar with almost all of the examples you give, so can’t really comment. Sounds like you watch some interesting films, though.

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