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"Pick up a new computer on the way home..."

 
  

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Ganesh
13:33 / 23.03.05
We've been using an increasingly cranky old laptop for the last three years, and it's communicating its distress in ever more vocal ways. I've been gazing lustfully through the window of Micro Anvika and, with another near-death experience this afternoon, fancy the idea of impulse-buying a replacement.

But. Being relatively computer-illiterate, I've little idea of the pros and cons of laptop-buying; I'm not even sure a laptop's what we need. It's sat in the same corner of the living room, hooked up to broadband, for the last two years, so it might as well be a proper PC for all the mobility we expect of it.

In terms of our needs, it's used primarily for accessing the Internet, with some file/photo storage. It's pre-FireWire/USB 2.0, and the bits I've tried to add on in the past haven't really worked. I'd love to get something we can burn CDs with, though, and download music at a decent rate, as the slowness of the old laptop really limited my iPod enjoyment.

Speaking of which, I'm finding Mac gorgeousness incredibly seductive, not least because it's much easier for a technophobe like myself to know immediately what is and isn't compatible with what.

Any advice, people, on computery impulse-purchasing?
 
 
Sax
13:35 / 23.03.05
No, but I'm loving that you're back and I'll sit on your lap any time.
 
 
A0S
13:43 / 23.03.05
A desktop will be cheaper than a laptop and you can upgrade bits when you need to. If you don't need portable then get a desktop. Macs are more expesive than their PC equivalent. It really depends how many programs you already have. If you have a lot then stick with PC because if you get a Mac you will have to replace them with the Mac versions or run them on an emulator. If you don't have many programs and you like the look and feel of a Mac then go for it.
 
 
Bear
13:45 / 23.03.05
If you're never going to move it you'll get much more for you're money with a desktop PC and you'll get a shiny flatscreen monitor to! In fact I'd go as for as to say that nobody ever needs a person laptop but the geeks would cry if I said that (and I actually own one maself).

To be honest you're probably better off going for one of the higher range PC world style deals with lots of nice extras thrown in...
 
 
Ganesh
13:50 / 23.03.05
Not many programs at all, really, beyond the basic stuff that came with the laptop.

I was thinking of heading off to Tottenham Court Road and immersing myself in techno-loveliness within the next hour or so...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:55 / 23.03.05
Right. Any PC you can buy that isn't an ultra-portable laptop is going to burn CDs, and most desktops will also burn DVDs of some kind - you probably don't need that functionality, but you'll struggle not to get it. For high-speed internet (that is, broadband) you'll need an RJ45 port or a USB port. Any computer you buy will have these.

If you genuinely have no need for mobile computing whatsoever, you might as well get a desktop, but a heavy desktop-replacement will not cost a huge amount more, and will mean you can use the computer in bed (see also wireless network). Your choice. If getting a laptop you don't plan to carry around, make sure it has legacy ports.

If you have an external monitor and keyboard plugged into your old laptop, you could think about getting a Mac Mini. They're comparatively inexpensive and should do what you need - and they have iPhoto, which may be a bonus for photo storage. The only price-competitive Mac laptops are probably 12" iBooks - if you get one, be ready to add memory (he read off a card provided by Nedrichards). And if you have expensive office software etc be aware you will have to replace it, although Mac alternatives can be had cheap or free as long as you don't NEED Microsoft Office.

Avoid PC World. They are the Devil.

How much do you want to spend, and what do you want it to do?
 
 
A0S
13:55 / 23.03.05
If you don't have any irreplacable programs then do try the Macs but remember they are more expensive as are their dedicated accessories. Saying that though most external stuff is USB 2.0 or Firewire and comes with PC & Mac software so they shouldn't be a problem.
 
 
A0S
14:11 / 23.03.05
I second Haus on avoiding PC World, indeed any of the DSG lot PCW, Dixons, Currys, Comet et al. Micro Anvika are good for Macs. For PCs there are a few shops up TCR who will build one to your specs (if you know what you want of course)
 
 
Bear
14:14 / 23.03.05
Use PC World!
Use PC World!

Or maybe not, what have people got against them exactly? If you're a home user why not use them? I was just thinking of some of the deals you see on TV, you know PC with TFT plus digicam and scanner and all that other stuff they chuck in...
 
 
Punji Steak
14:18 / 23.03.05
I'd just add that most of the places on Tottenham Court Road are expensive (save Computer Exchange which trades in 2nd hand PC hardware). I shop solely online for my PC stuff these days using dabs.com, www.insight.com and www.scan.co.uk, all of which I'd recommend for price, service and speed of delivery. And no, I haven't been paid to say this...
 
 
The Strobe
14:20 / 23.03.05
Macs are more expesive than their PC equivalent.

Honestly, not really. When you take into account the spec, the performance (rather than clock speed, which stopped being significant ages ago), and the sheer amount of stuff they come with, they're actually a strikingly good deal and very comparable to relative PCs - the laptops especially. Not many other firms make a 12" near-ultra-portable with built in wireless, dvd, and cd burner, and that battery life.

I'll offer more input later, when I'm not at work, which will help answer Ganesh's question rather than correct other posters.
 
 
Ganesh
14:21 / 23.03.05
At the moment, in our current flat, no, we genuinely have no need for PC-mobility. When we eventually move, we'll get wireless doo-dah, but it's likely that we'll always have one fixed terminal, maybe with a couple of more peripheral laptops. Desktop sounds fine to me.

The main thing we're looking for, I guess, is flexibility over time, compatibility with add-ons and other stuff (iPod, digital cameras, etc.) and speed on the Internet. Along with, as I say, more capacity to download music, burn CDs and play DVDs. The main fault of our laptop is its inflexibility, the fact that it quickly became outdated and all the bits and pieces I bought to try to convert its USB ports, etc. seemed to add to the problem.

The appeal of the Mac system, for me, is that it all seems to fit together. It appears that I can go into a Mac shop and say, "I have X, I want Y to fit with it" and won't have to go through a round of "what sort of noodleythunk kackflap holes has it got?" type questioning, only to buy something that has to be disconnected again because the PC hates it.
 
 
A0S
14:21 / 23.03.05
Because most (all?) of those deals aren't as good as they seem. If you check out TCR or even better the manufactures websites you can often get better specs for the same price. The technology isn't always state of the art but it's often sold at state of the art prices. Plus the staff don't always seem as knowledgable as you might wish.
 
 
A0S
14:27 / 23.03.05
Given what you are looking for I'd definately check out the Macs they are designed to easily do what you want and have the advange over PCs in your situation.
 
 
Bear
14:30 / 23.03.05
That's cool it's just that it comes up now and again and I sometimes wonder if PC World staff are out back making keyboard keys out of children's teeth due to some of the reactions.
 
 
elpis eutropius
14:44 / 23.03.05
Quite simply: an Apple laptop = happiness.

There's nothing more satisfying to spend money on. It's beautiful. It works. You form a personal relationship with it, and unlike with any PC, it is a loving relationship. And while a desktop computer may be cheaper, who can resist the possibility to work (or not work) in bed? Not me.
 
 
HCE
15:43 / 23.03.05
Is there any way to keep this from turning into platform proselytizing?

I have a mac laptop because I got it for free from my old job, and it's great.

I have a Dell desktop that I got for $800 because it was the cheapest thing that had pretty much everything I wanted (dvd burner, flatscreen monitor, lots of storage, combo scanner/printer), and it's great.

I use the laptop for writing in bed and in cafes, and the desktop for internet access and music/film/photo stuff. The one thing my desktop didn't have was firewire. It has USB2 which is great, but my video camera is a pre-USB2 model. It was more difficult and time consuming to open the box the firewire card came in than to install it.

Installing firewire:
Open box that's sealed like it's going to the moon.
Open tower case by pressing a button on the top. The side flops open and everything's immediately visible.
Remove card from box, stick in case, right into a fairly obvious spot.
Jiggle a bit to make sure it's well in there.
Push side of tower back up.
Recycle box.

That said, if I had (much) more than $800 to spend, I'd get a Mac strictly because I find them very pretty, and that means a lot to me.
 
 
Ganesh
15:48 / 23.03.05
Installing firewire:
Open box that's sealed like it's going to the moon.
Open tower case by pressing a button on the top. The side flops open and everything's immediately visible.
Remove card from box, stick in case, right into a fairly obvious spot.
Jiggle a bit to make sure it's well in there.
Push side of tower back up.
Recycle box.


And, in the case of Ganesh's bastard laptop:
Watch while, against expectation, everything

runs

more

slooooowly.

At the risk of gifthorse-dentistry, one way to avoid proselytising would be to actually advise me what might suit my PC needs...
 
 
■
15:49 / 23.03.05
Use PC World? Are you insane?

I can wholeheartedly recommend Ideal Computing. They are pretty cheap (perhaps not the cheapest) and everyone in the shops knows what they're talking about.
If you don't need high end you should be able to get something decent and upgradeable for about £300-400 from them, especially if you have your own copy of XP.
 
 
Mike Modular
16:14 / 23.03.05
OK, here's what you need...

iBook (size and specs up to you)
Airport Express

Hey presto, you're wirelessly broadband and burning CDs. You can now also use AirTunes and do wireless network printing. Inbuilt firewire works a treat and you can even bus-power certain devices, which is rarer on a PC. Get yourself down Micro Anvika...
 
 
sleazenation
16:17 / 23.03.05
As far as your needs outlined in the first post go I think all current Macs (as well as most current PCs) would do what you want.

Macs have a great advantage of not being suseptable to bloatware viruses and other malware that slow many PC down to death.

It is probably worth also thinking about what other things you might want to do in future such as burning DVDs (though the standard here has not yet been set and you may end up with the equivilent of a betamax burner) and downloading TV (in which case more memory is an advantage).

On a Mac, iPhoto comes as standard and it is a pretty good way of storing and arranging your photograph collection...
 
 
sleazenation
16:25 / 23.03.05
Oh, If you have bluetooth mobile phones you might want to get bluetooth enabled Mac, you'll be able to download your pics from your phone to your computer for free.

I have an iBook and airport extreme base station myself and it does for all my needs - which includes burning CDs and downloading music, watching DVDs, and more strenuious DTP applications.
 
 
■
16:51 / 23.03.05
I would reluctantly recommed a Mac as well. If you don't know what you want or where to get it, don't risk getting a PC. Macs are horrible and unfriendly but at least you know what you're getting, they look nice and they do what they say they will.
 
 
Saint Keggers
17:10 / 23.03.05
There's something about an abacus thats just so damn sexy.
 
 
■
18:28 / 23.03.05
The Logopolitans swear by them. I just swear at them.
 
 
sleazenation
18:46 / 23.03.05
But will my old abacus be compatible with my new one? will i be able to download music with it?
 
 
HCE
18:54 / 23.03.05
At the risk of gifthorse-dentistry, one way to avoid proselytising would be to actually advise me what might suit my PC needs...

Could've sworn I did that. Doesn't the Dell I bought pretty do what you said you wanted your new machine to do (music, internet, photos), and the example of installing firewire demonstrate ease of acquiring future add-ons, as you mentioned you wanted?

Sorry, did you want a specific model number?

Take a look at the Dimension 5000.

They have frequent promotions & discounts so you should be able to get a pretty good deal.
 
 
netbanshee
22:40 / 23.03.05
You should put up a budget range (in U.S. equivalent as well for us Americanos) for all of us to work with. Or PM some of us. I buy computer stuff for work all of the time and can sniff out a pretty good deal. I saved about a grand a piece on some dual 2ghz G5's recently which is unheard of. I personally use macs for everything and have a pc at home that I check website production on.

I wholeheartedly say that if you're not leaving much behind, get a Mac. With proper maintenance and care (quite easy actually) it will become part of the household, so to speak. The software that they are bundled with is top-notch and the system is geared towards making you more productive than you think you're capable of (wait till you work with expose). Security and malware problems are practically non-existent (for the foreseeable future).

So, I'd vote Mac.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:14 / 23.03.05
A faster and more efficient model. Like, I dunno, Greg Evigan ?
 
 
Hieronymus
07:21 / 24.03.05
Macs have a great advantage of not being suseptable to bloatware, viruses and other malware that slow many PC down to death.

That, more than anything, is why I've kept to Macs and why their market share has been increasing so much in the last two years. The fact that most people have to put up with an OS that can be so easily riddled with malware would be almost laughable to me if it weren't so goddamn tragic. That's not to say that the Mac OS isn't vulnerable. But right now, it's a mixture of code vigilance and pure dumb luck that's keeping the wolves at bay. What user wouldn't want to capitalize on that?

Not to mention the old paradigm that 'Macs are more expensive than PCs' is changing too. The Mini is a bargain any way you look at it.

I have to maintain 72 computers for the university I work at, eight tenths of which are Dells and Gateways. And the simple truth is the Macs give me far and above less headache than the PCs. If any. No anti-virus necessary. No anti-spyware apps I have to run everyday to keep the systems from keeling over dead. They do everything you need them to do. And then some.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:29 / 24.03.05
Nesh: I think the reason people aren't responding strictly to your needs is that your needs will be met by any PC or Mac you buy - everything will have USB2.0 ports, for example.

However:

Generally, desktops are cheaper than laptops. You can get a desktop that will do what you want - burn CDs, play DVDs, access the Internet and store music and images - for about £399 (or less without Windows). However, it won't do much else, and it may not have Firewire, which may limit future video options (less so these days, though). As you go up the price ranges, you (predictably) get a lot more oomph for your money with a desktop, and more flexibility.

Flexibility and upgradability are the desktop's advantages. Basically, you can't upgrade laptops - expect two years' life out of them, more if your needs are few and you don't DROP THE DAMN THING.

So - PC desktop, I'd recommend getting, if you are buying from fresh, an Athlon 64 processor on a socket 939 motherboard probably with a PCI Express slot (the upcoming standard for future graphics cards). 120GB-200GB hard drive (this will take a long time to fill up with photos and MP3s. You can probably get away with integrated graphics, but the one thing that *will* affect internet speed (or how fast the info is displayed, and how many windows you can open - if you're not using Firefox, use Firefox, btw) is RAM - you need as a minimum 512MB to use Windows XP or OS 10.3 effectively - this is probably one of the things with your laptop - it's probably only got 256MB of RAM. You may as well get a wireless LAN card plunked in there while you're about it - it will come in handy later. Think about what kind of sound you want, as well - with a big screen and 5.1 speakers, you're looking at something that can replace your hi-fi and DVD player, and ultimately your TV.

Laptop - depends whether you want something you can actually carry around, or just something you can stick on a desk in the corner which will be easier to move than a PC (a heavy laptop weighs about 3.8kg, a desktop usually about 18kg). Light costs, powerful costs, long battery life costs. If you genuinely have no need to use a laptop regularly, get a desktop (or more precisely a tower) and a smartphone or a PDA for scribbling notes... be aware that almost all laptops have less storage space than PCs - they start at 30GB these days and go up to 100GB, but big 2.5 inch hard drives are costy - expect 40GB or 60GB in a laptop.

Honestly, the people above are right. Tell us how much you want to spend, we'll tell you how much more than your expectations the PC (or mac) you can buy for it can deliver. Oh, and what make was your old laptop?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:34 / 24.03.05
But right now, it's a mixture of code vigilance and pure dumb luck that's keeping the wolves at bay.

Well, and the fact that if you are writing malware you want to aim at the 95% of the market, not the 5%. If macs become really popular, they'll get their own viruses.
 
 
grant
15:53 / 24.03.05
Just out of curiosity, was your PC running Windows XP?

I've heard that XP uses memory in a way that prior versions didn't, making it much more efficient once you get more than 128k RAM. If you're not doing much big-file stuff (or don't have a heap of spyware on your system) this might not make a big difference, but if you are (or you do), then it will.

Anyway, I'm very happy with my new Powerbook, although I do miss some things about Windows (I understand the software better, and I like being able to right-click on anything instead of figuring out if I should click, apple-click or cntrl-click to do something).

If you do get Mac, try futzing with a freeware program called Quicksilver. I know lots of people who swear by this thing as, like, a new lover in their compu-world. I use it on and off. It basically makes it *very* easy to find things and do things to things without having to hunt up the program and then locate the file you want it to operate on.

This might not make much sense until you've putzed around on a Mac a little. The Mac is loaded with handy little applications and tends to store files in a sort of messy way unless you're very good about starting new folders and moving things to them as soon as they arrive on your computer.

iTunes is revolutionizing the way I deal with music, which is something I never expected it to do.

And if you do go Mac, I gotta plug a friend's popular blog 43 Folders, which is partially based on "productivity" (I promise the guy's not actually a cultist, unlike many productivity devotees) and partially based on handy software tricks for OS X. It's where I heard about Quicksilver first.
 
 
Ganesh
15:54 / 24.03.05
Yeah, thanks everyone - and apologies for yesterday's technofear-related snarkiness. I bought an iMac G5 desktop doodah on the way home, and left Xoc (who was off work today) to set up the wireless modem thing.

Which brings me to my next question:

I'm aware that, now we're using a wireless connection, we need some sort of password protection to stop neighbours accessing our stuff, and so on (did that sound vaguely like I knew what I was talking about?) What do I need to do, and how do I go about doing it?
 
 
grant
16:28 / 24.03.05
The software for setting up your router (the dealie that sends out the wireless signal) should have a setting for a "firewall" -- you want that to be "on."

Beyond that I'm not 100% sure. There's other advice over on this thread, which includes the thing where you set up an administrator account and then never use it.

OS X is all about the user accounts (under "System Preferences" in the apple menu).
 
  

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