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Meet the Ancestors

 
  

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Tamayyurt
17:24 / 15.03.05
Since the thread 'Conjuring Entities' inspired me to get in touch with a Water Elemental (and what a great experience it was), I think it’s time to begin my next magickal project:

Impulsivelad- When you say ancestor spirit, specifically are we talking about the spirit of departed ancestors? Cause I’ve been thinking if you do your family tree backward in time it gets pretty large. (i.e. 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great great grandparents, at the beginning of the 15th century there were 16,777,216 direct ancestors of mine living all over the planet and I'm thinking some of them had to've been Shamans, Magicians, Alchemists…) So I can conjure anyone of them? Can someone spell out a ritual for me on how to do this?

Gypsy Lantern- Build an ancestral altar. Make offerings. Light a candle. Talk to them. See what happens. See who comes through. See what they have to say to you.


I’m definitely going to try the above (time-honored) technique, but I also welcome any anecdotes or suggestions in this matter. I want as much as you can give me, from genetic memory to regression therapy. I want to hear about successful endeavors and failed attempts to contact your dead family members.
 
 
Chiropteran
18:48 / 15.03.05
I've never been terribly close to my living ("extended") family - physical distance has led to emotional distance, and I grew up with no real sense of connection to my relatives as individuals, or to Family in the broader sense.

This said, on every occasion that I have given service to my ancestors (from the newly deceased on back), I have ended up in tears. It can be an extremely emotional experience, and is well worth the effort. It's also something I need to do much much more of.

~L
 
 
+#'s, - names
19:30 / 15.03.05
I had never really thought about contacting "spirits", ancestor or otherwise. I went to a spiritualist church last summer just for kicks, they charged for admission, it was close to going to see a movie. There was a woman walking around telling people about members of their family that were contacting them, seemed really run of the mill, you will go on a long voyage soon, there is money coming from somewhere, etc., until she stopped at me. She told me a friend of mine that had recently died wanted me to remember everything he had taught me, which was strange because a close friend died last april that was very mentoring. I just kind of shook it off because everyone knows somebody that died, she then mentioned an old woman, a grandmother? with one leg that wanted me to know that she was still looking out for me. My grandmother had a leg amputated about a year before she died. If that was just a random guess she got really lucky.

Not really sure of any good it did for me, made me feel a bit freaked out for a while after. Nice to think that Mormor is still out there. Maybe i was duped. Will never really know.
 
 
Katherine
12:19 / 16.03.05
I have considered doing ancestor stuff but never been hundred per cent sure on it. But if anyone is based near London, then Treadwells is hosting a talk on the subject;

'FEEDING THE BONE ORCHARD': ISSUES IN ANCESTOR WORSHIP
Mr Stephen Grasso
31 May (Tuesday)
7.30 pm
Independent scholar and practitioner Stephen Grasso examines the variety of interactions in magical religious cults, from Voudon to Wicca, from Tantra to Shinto, Chaos magick to Crowley. Always focussing on actions as expressions of underlying beliefs, Grasso's approach has much appeal for those with ongoing practices to re-examine and reflect upon.
£5.00

Could be of use to someone out there on Barbelith.
 
 
Sekhmet
12:51 / 16.03.05
Dammitalltohell, I'm going to have to move to London. They're always having these wonderful lectures...
 
 
Katherine
12:59 / 16.03.05
Terrible isn't it?
 
 
Tamayyurt
13:20 / 16.03.05
I'm in Miami so that's out. If anyone goes to this can they post some highlights?
 
 
Katherine
13:23 / 16.03.05
I'm going hopefully as soon as someone confirms my email booking it So by all means I'll post up a paragraph or two on it.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:35 / 16.03.05
There is a rumour that this talk might be postponed.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:34 / 17.03.05
What did you put on your ancestral altar, Imp? How did you make it?
 
 
Illihit
17:02 / 17.03.05
Has anyone tried the Vodou style of ancestor contact? I'm interested in that, but I've yet to set up my peristyle. How was the meeting?
 
 
Tamayyurt
18:45 / 17.03.05
Basically, my altar consists of an old globe (the size of a softball) my grandmother owned (brought from Spain) surrounded by candles, incense and such… it looks pretty wicked actually. I anointed it with a drop of blood to symbolize my genetic heritage across the world. I know for a fact my family moved from Spain to Cuba to Miami. I know a great grandmother is from the Canary Islands and some great something or other is from France. If you trace the family in Spain a few centuries back, I know I have some Moor (North African Muslims possibly Berber) on my dad’s side of the family and some Jew from my Mom’s side. Once in the New World my genes picked up (from vague stories I’ve heard), some Taino Indian (native people of the Caribbean before the Europeans arrived) and some Yoruba (West African tribe, where many slaves came from). If this isn’t true genetically, it is linguistically because my Spanish is peppered with Taino and Yoruba words. I’m pretty pasty and I look somewhat Semitic, even though I know looks can be deceiving when it comes to genes. I could probably go further back to include, Carthaginian, Germanic, Roman, Greek, Phoenician, Iberian, Celtic… and pretty much all the other people who occupied Spain for thousands of years… but now we’re getting more abstract.

So far, not a peep from my peeps and I’ve been wondering if I’m doing this right. When I talk to my “Ancestors” I refer to them as a whole, as this ambiguous throng of people in the distant past. My offering probably seem a bit impersonal. I don’t know if that has any barring on the workings. There’s no one on one like with the Water Elemental.
 
 
Chiropteran
19:13 / 17.03.05
"So far, not a peep from my peeps and I’ve been wondering if I’m doing this right."

...but have you fed them? Literally. Food, drink, alcohol, some tobacco - things they like. Share your meals with them (feed them the first serving, not the leftovers). Small portions are fine, preferably unsalted (from what I've read - YMMV?). Leave the food up at least until the candles burn down, and better if you can leave it overnight. Dispose of it outside under the bushes, or tied in a separate bag in the garbage.

Family pictures are great for the altar, too. I like the globe, though, both for personal associations and symbolism.

~L
 
 
Chiropteran
19:23 / 17.03.05
"When I talk to my “Ancestors” I refer to them as a whole, as this ambiguous throng of people in the distant past. My offering probably seem a bit impersonal."

Oh, name names, if you're comfortable doing that. You don't even have to have met them (Great-Grandma Ida, or whoever), but call them by name and ask to meet them. They know you already (but do continue to honor the vague mass of ancestors you don't know by name). Tell them about your life, about what you're doing. Ask them to show you what they prefer to eat, and how they like to be contacted -- and if what they want is beyond your current means, ask them to help you make it possible (they serve you better, so you can serve them better, so they can serve you better, so you can...). The early contacts might be subtle - be aware of sudden, loud thoughts like (when walking through a shop) "Hey, these coconut meringue puffs might be just the thing for Great-Grampa Garcia... wait, I've got a Great-Grampa Garcia?" *calls parent to verify*

And when they give you advice... act on it.

~L
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:34 / 18.03.05
What Lep said. Feed them. Preferably with food and drink that you think they might have enjoyed in life. Do it regularly, every sunday is good. Doesnt have to be a big deal. Just a serving of food, maybe a shot of whisky or something . Name the ancestors you can name, but honour the one's you can't name as well. Something like: "Honour to you who have gone before, you who are named, you who are nameless, the roots and branches of the tree of being of which I'm a part" is my general opening. If you don't already have it, you might want a glass of water and a white candle on the altar. Replace the water every week and relight the candle for them.

So far, not a peep from my peeps and I’ve been wondering if I’m doing this right.

You've only been doing it for five minutes! I still feel like I'm just in the shallow end of this practice after five years! Ancestor work is cumulative, a bit like Tai Chi. If you and previous generations havent been feeding them and taking care of them, you generally have to work to rebuild that connection before you start getting clear results. I tend to think of their state as a huge ancestral soup, which is called "the waters below" in Vodou. I think of them splashing around in that, like a giant cosmic flotation tank, not entirely aware of themselves as individuals until you help them remember through interaction and service. In Haiti, there is a whole 'science' for getting the dead back on line and housing them in clay jars, where they can continue to play an active role in the community, after they have been in the waters below for a year and a day. Certain aspects of these ceremonies would be fairly difficult to accomplish within our culture, unlike in Haiti where the whole family and community would be involved and Vodou is a part of everyday life. So I think of the ancestral altar method of communication as a low tech version of this process.

The ancestors near the surface of the waters, being the more recently dead, do tend to be easier to communicate with, perhaps because they retain more sense of themselves. Also, if you knew them in life, they will already have an existing relationship with you. The more you feed and interact with the ancestors, the further you deepen the connection, and you might find older ancestors coming through. Sometimes I get a sense that the recent ancestors act as go betweens between you and the ancients.

It would be a mistake to expect results of a similar nature to the water elemental, as it's a very different operation. Ancestor work is very symbiotic. Again, like Lep said, looking after them, so they can look after you, so you can look after them, so they can... It's a long term thing and it's about taking care of them and building a strong link to them, not about doing a quick ritual to get some cool dead magician ancestor guy to come through and tell you how to do the family's ancestral sorcery. That may well happen, but it will just be one result of the ongoing ancestor work, not the sole purpose of it. If there are people like that in you family, going way back, then you have to build a road for them to walk. You can't be selective about ancestor work, you ultimately have to accept them, because the reality is that they existed and you are a product of them. It's best not to approach it functionally, as if you're trying to "get" something from them, or trying to cut some kind of a deal with them. They are your family, not the Goetia. It's better thought of as a celebration of what you are and where you have come from. By celebrating the ancestors, you are feeding and nourishing the roots of your being.
 
 
--
01:46 / 19.03.05
Is liking said ancestor a prerequisite? I mean, hypothetically, let's say that in real life that ancestor had been a bitter, mean-spirited, abusive, racist jerk?
 
 
Chiropteran
05:17 / 19.03.05
Sypha, I riffed on that a little in the next-most-recent "ancestor worship" thread (a couple of weeks ago, but I'm on a slow enough connection that I'm not going to go looking for it to link). The short version: 1) being dead can give one a whole new perspective, and 2) if they hurt you in life, they have the opportunity to pay you back now (and may be eager to do so - see point 1).

~L
 
 
eye landed
23:45 / 20.03.05
is all magic ancestor magic?

ive read the first few chapters of a book called 'jonathan strange and mr norrell', which ive seen mentioned here. it has put me in the mind of magic as legend, propaganda, illusion, but without belittling its useful power. i dont know if the book is going in a similar direction to where im about to go.

taking it as an assumption that magic is generally seen as more powerful in the past, perhaps it does not diminish objectively by a particular date, but rather is amplified by a certain historical distance. one might say then that magic is merely legend--distorted records of trickery and cleverness.

but magic is more than performance, as we all know. the 'best' magic cant be seen or applauded. if historical distance enhances performance magic, it must enhance other magic as well. the historical mechanism is the time tree: a single stalk branches out many generations and ideas. a stitch in time saves nine.

when you create a sigil or ritual or whatever, you are accessing subconscious information and ability. your ancestors are genetically and culturally encoded in your subconscious. if we recognize only linear time, we cant get beyond merely utilizing the wisdom of our ancestors. but since most of the 'present' world also exists in our subcnscious (we arent sensible of it), we can beseech our ancestors to intervene in the past in order to cause 'change' in our observed present. dna is a time machine. one of its little known important functions involves absorbing and emitting light between cells of one body, between bodies, and exchanging with the cosmos. im not a physicist, but since light travels at the speed of light, it doesnt experience time at all.

my life changed a lot since my last and favourite granny died about a year ago. two or three (!) new gods contacted me, and i did some really wacky shit (by my standards).
 
 
illmatic
08:24 / 21.03.05
Wacky shit, eh?

Just going to add that I think part of ancestor work should involve thinking about and trying to take care of, and interact with your living family, if that's possible. If you are all part of the same tree, taking cae of the other "shoots" is going to please them.
 
 
angel
16:26 / 16.10.05
I've just started thinking about how sensible this all is and that I really do need to start working on this aspect as I think it will be really rewarding.

One question that popped into my head is about step families. Through an interesting series of events I have three fathers. One who is my biological father, one who was married to my Mum when I was born and then the man who has raised me since I was about two years old.

Does anyone have any ideas about how this might effect things? I'm not seeing it as a big problem, but since I have never done anything like this before I am curious to see if anyone else has come across something similar.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:18 / 16.10.05
I don't know all the "rules" governing this, but my UPG* is that it might depend on how close the emotional link is between you. I reckon that if these guys regard you as family, that'll affect how much their predecessors will get involved in your life.



*Unverified personal gnosis.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:47 / 17.10.05
It's fairly common practice in some cultures to have a space set aside for non-blood ancestors on an ancestor altar. In Santeria and Espiritismo the ancestors are considered "Egun" which includes your deceased blood relatives and often also various "spiritual guides" who may not have been of your own flesh and blood, but have an interest in you and your life and development. If you've got non-familial ancestors who you feel a close connnection to, then it is perfectly natural to honour and remember them. It's your altar. Gut instinct is always best. Do what feels right to you.
 
 
archim3des
21:51 / 17.10.05
that this thread comes up makes me smile.

my mom passed away a year ago, Oct. 14th. What I have read on Voodoun basically states what gypsy said. The part of the soul which, in my understanding of it, correlates to the ego-self, goes on to the afterlife, dwells in the lands of the dead, in voodoun that would be Ginen, and communes with the ancestors and the loa. After a year, or a year and a day depending on the source, it is possible to recall that part of the soul which would be the spirit of that individual.

The cemetary where my mothers remains where laid to rest was named Valhalla, not my choice, but it did give some good stuff to work with when it came to contacting her spirit. I know have her remains (her ashes, she was cremated) on my own altar, and feel a decent bond with it. A lot of stuff has been going through my head in regards to creating an ancestral altar, so I'm going to take a lot of this stuff on this thread, and run through my head for a while.

in regards to relatives that you don't like, the santero that runs the botanica down the road from me,gave me some good advice when dealing with your ancestors ( which is what I went to him for). The spirits learn a lot during that time they spend in Ginen, from their own ancestors, and from the loa/orixas. Dying can do a lot for your worldview, and the spirits that do return would have a tendency to show that, or so I would imagine. thanks for all the advice.
 
 
angel
23:30 / 17.10.05
Thanks for the support. I have now cleared a shelf on my bookcase and set it up with some bare basics and will begin the contact/relating process tomorrow.

Fingers crossed here we go!
 
 
angel
08:55 / 19.10.05
Sorry to pop up so frequently here, but I've got another question.

I've set up my alter with some photos and bits and pieces, sort of bare bones kinda thing, waiting for input from them and last night I served up a small plate of food from the dinner I cooked. All good so far.

Then suddenly in the middle of the night I started thinking about how I should dispose of the food this morning. See I would love to just pop it outside under a bush, but I live in a block of flats in a completely urbanised part of London and I have seen rats frolicking around the car park in the cool hours of the night. This doesn't strike me as a great place to be leaving food out under bushes. And the nearest park is a fair walk away, and I doubt the rat situation is restricted to my block of flats. So what is a girl to do?

I've been racking my brain and haven't come up with any ideas so far. Help please!
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:58 / 19.10.05
Find a crossroads with a bin. Leave it there, along with a coin for the crossroads spirits if you like.
 
 
angel
09:02 / 19.10.05
Cool, that's a relief! Thanks for that!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:43 / 07.11.05
I've recently made myself known to Hela (the Northern European death-Goddess), and begun putting together a harrow for her. Aside from introducing an incredibly powerful and commanding presence into my life, this has had the interesting effect of making my ancestor harrow...well, noisier, I guess. More active. Various items have been claimed (including a pair of my old glasses), and more offerings requested. It'll be interesting to see where all this goes.
 
 
SteppersFan
10:06 / 08.11.05
An aspect of this which has been suggested to me in the course of my work in this area is that when you are working with ancestor resources, you are partly preparing to become an ancestor yourself.

It's been impressed on me that my receipt of ancestor... um... "stuff" has a lot to do with my transmission to my children.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:35 / 08.11.05
when you are working with ancestor resources, you are partly preparing to become an ancestor yourself.

Which raises some interesting considerations for those of us who are increasingly unlikely to be passing our genetic material to anybody. How do we define or redefine the ancestor role? How do we then fulfill it? Who's going to be putting a picture of us on their ancestor harrow?
 
 
SteppersFan
11:26 / 08.11.05
Exactly the issue I was just thinking about... first off, the role ancestors in magic is not precluded by not having kids, though my experience is they are interested in them. Secondly, I'm reminded of Gypsy's point earlier about non-blood relations having an ancestral magical role. This might mean that those without offspring are still part of "the waters below", even if they don't have people putting pictures of them on an altar.

As to how ppl "fulfil their role" -- well, just get on with it!
 
 
Haloquin
13:56 / 02.02.08
I did a search for ancestors and this is the thread that came up, so I'm resurrecting it.

I've been remembering my ancestors for quite a while now, I haven't had anything specific for them but this past year I've tended to have a space I've kept which sort of gets thought of as theirs. Recently I bought Exploring the Northen Tradition by Galina Krasskova* and it mentioned ancestor reverence quite a bit, inspiring me to set up something a bit more permenent, conscious and specific for them. In it she mentions a friend who has a reliquary box rather than an alter. I like boxes and this resonated. I don't need to put the things in a box (to protect from cats, children or the like) but it seemed right somehow.

The upshot is that now, as part of my daily practice, I open the box and lay everything out. This seems to keep me actively involved, rather than just having it as a passive reminder.**

Last night I was standing at it, not quite sure how to reach out to them. Then I got the strong feeling to call on my Great Nana. She's been a prescence before, randomly turning up in dreams or meditations, and playing quite a role in my Mum's life. So I did.

I got the strong urge to do just what has been mentioned above and just, well talked to her (although I have seen it suggested before, so it might be simply remembering) about what I'm up to overall in my life, and I mentioned a couple of things heavy on my mind.

I got responses I didn't expect, and it felt like more than just her answering. After a little while I got a very strong feeling of my blood heating up and I could feel multiple prescences that presented as one mass of prescence.

Like I say, I have done some work with them before, but now its getting more disciplined. I've often offered them food and mention them in my prayers, so this isn't first steps, but it feels like first real steps.

It really is all about connection.

Oh, and my cat, Sophie, was a huge part of the family and my life for many years, my first xmas at Uni she died, and I honoured her at the first Samhain after her death since then she's been about regularly, she keeps popping up in dreams and is the first prescence when I reach for ancesters (equal first with Great Nana). So I don't think blood is necessary for ancestry!


*On TTS recommendation in one of these threads, it seems really helpful.
**I'm considering making all my alter-things into boxes, as I have avrious forms of alter and this seems the most effective for me, so far.
 
 
Sekhmet
14:00 / 05.02.08
Haloquin, I like the boxes idea! My altars and harrows have been spreading in a rather unruly way, and due to space constraints some have ended up in places that are a bit difficult to "work" at - high shelves, low shelves, areas blocked off somewhat by furniture, and the like. Besides this, I have cats, dogs, and now a baby who will be crawling soon, and everything that's out is always in peril of getting messed with... not to mention dusty, if I don't have the chance to keep up housecleaning, which is a common situation when you get blessed with an infant...

I wonder whether any of the associated Folks would mind having their stuff socked away into a nice, cosy wooden box for safekeeping, and then brought out for specific work on a large, accessible altar. I should check.

Thanks for bumping the thread, too; having "become an ancestor" I have been more in touch with my living relatives and feeling the need to pick up ancestor work more seriously; I understand the familial connection better now, so it seems more pressing. Also, it would be good to have caring assistance watching out for the wee one's interests.

In that regard, though... would it be considered presumptuous to include your spouse's ancestors in your observations, perhaps in the same manner as step-families, discussed previously? I'm fully as close to his family as I am to mine - closer, in some ways - and surely they would also be interested in the offspring...
 
 
Haloquin
15:53 / 05.02.08
I'm glad mentioning the boxes has helped!

I don't see why they would mind, I know lots of people who work with 'beloved dead' under the heading of ancestors (or vice-versa, it seems to be interchangeable) and a lot of those aren't blood-ancestors. I will be approaching people who weren't blood-related, both completely non-familial and step-family, within my ancestral practice. I'm trying not to rush though, working on the relationships I can feel at the moment. If they don't want to work with me, then I'll leave them be, but otherwise I can't see why there'd be a problem.

I think the consensus for most of these things has been 'no harm in asking'.
 
 
Pyewacket The Elder
22:29 / 15.02.08
The use of boxes is neither unprecedented nor profane - it was a common factor in Egypt and indeed in India most shrines seem to occupy small dwellings (at street level that is). Link here to modern re-creations of the Egyptian ritual implements. Further down you will find the box (as it were) that the Gods lived in.

http://www.studio.sofiatopia.org/studio.htm
 
  

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