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Nathan Barley

 
  

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Ganesh
14:46 / 09.03.05
Perhaps Morris has yet to show us his whole face.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:04 / 09.03.05
>>>scissors in cat's head was funny though.<<<

It *was* funny, but it was also not particularly daring, it was just a little bit of slapstick, which I think is pretty easy comedy and not what we have come to expect from Morris. Unfortunately it was also the biggest laugh of the episode, which was disappointing.

I showed Nathan Barley eps 1 - 3 to some friends here, who haven't seen any of Morris' work before, who aren't familiar with TVGoHome (or in fact any British comedy other than The Office), and they loved it. Their laughter was infectious and I actually found myself laughing along with them and wondering if I'd allowed too-high expectations to colour my judgement the first time around. But then I saw episode 4 and realized, as Jack the Bodiless excellently argues above, that it's pretty spineless, hackneyed junk.

Please, god, let the last 2 episodes be shiningly brilliant...
 
 
Sauron
16:27 / 09.03.05
I hope one is about a steel band night called Steejl.

reel steel cuts and fucks.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:08 / 09.03.05
See, now I liked that as well...

NB :"Dajve Bkinus is gonna be there"

DA :"Dave..wha...who's he?"

NB :"She..."

I mean, its not emmy award or anyting, but it raised a chuckle. Perhaps I'm easily pleased.
 
 
Sauron
12:19 / 10.03.05
I've been thinking about why I think it's good and it's actually very simple.

I'm 50% Nathan Barley and 50% Dan Ashcroft.

I hate one side of me for being a complete wanker.

And the other side because I won't do anything to change it.

But I absolutely love myself because I'm a lazy, loathsome media cunt.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
20:46 / 11.03.05
Right. You go with that.

Tonight's episode on E4: I rest my case. Fucking appalling. Noxious, repellent, misogynist rubbish. At least when Jam cut this kind of stuff it was featureless, characterless vacancy - the whole point was that it was faceless sketches, out of focus, remote. Nathan Barley features a recurring character who the programme applauds for being a misogynist - no, establishes as the hero, a man who is so shallow that he makes light of child porn and early-teen prostitution for no reason whatsoever. Every single man in this show is clearly established as a virulent misogynist. And all the token woman does is perform her 'naturalistically-vaguely-shocked-expression' one more time.

This shit is poison, and boring, cliched, rut-poison at that. This is not cutting-edge TV. This is relentlessly vapid TV, from a man who used to sneer at this kind of bilge. This is the sound of one man's talent pissing down a drain while he collects a paycheck.

I remain astonished that a) I've been in/up and bored enough to watch every episode to date, and b) trusted in Morris enough to think it might be going somewhere interesting/amusing. Bearing in mind his twisted sense of purpose, I'm just ready to believe that he's deliberately trying to destroy his sacred cow status before reinventing what he does. But this is just embarrassing, and he needs a kicking for being a dense, self-indulgent prick.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:10 / 11.03.05
establishes as the hero

This might be the point where a lot of your argument falls down.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:20 / 11.03.05
Although I don't think it's been a very successful show at all. Everybody's a prick, seems to be its ultimate message, and we were given that five minutes into the first epsiode. It's just been an exercise in repetition since then, like they've not had the balls to take what was a fairly promising core concept and really run with it.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:16 / 11.03.05
Can anyone tell me when NB repeats, cos I was out tonight and I want to see this relentless misogynist shite episode with me own eyes ...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
22:43 / 11.03.05
tomorrow at the witching hour on c4.

I missed it too. What happened? ;-)
 
 
Benny the Ball
23:07 / 11.03.05
Dan wanked off a builder and Nathan got a blow job from a coke-addict 18 year old that was pretending to be a 13 year old, but got more kudos for the 13 year old angle, so ran with that.

I find Dan's Pious sister to be the most loathsome character of all - weak, and totally shallow (will put up with anything to get her thing made).

A couple of times Nathan seemed to slip up that he thought he was being a cunt, when I thought the whole point was that he a) didn't know and b) didn't care.

The preview of next weeks was quite amusing though.
 
 
CameronStewart
07:25 / 12.03.05
When he was on the bus at the end, boasting on the phone about getting the blowjob from the thirteen year old and smugly trying to connect eyes with the other passengers, it was the first time in the series that actually felt like the Nathan Barley of TVGoHome - rather than the harmless dopey twat of the previous episodes, here he was repellent and borderline evil.

This was the first episode to actually be what I'd imagined the series to be like when it was first announced to be in development, and the first to have Morris and Brooker's fingerprints clearly visible on it. I still don't know if I actually *like* it, though.

I did find the idea of "stray" pretty funny, and I laughed out loud at Jonotton Yeah?s theatrical grimace to describe Dan's failure to write his last article. Also nice little cameo from Julia Davis as the weathergirl.

One more to go - the trailer for it is pretty funny...
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:27 / 12.03.05
I too am sick of Claire's face-like-a-smacked-arse, but I blame the writers - all she ever has to do is scold Dan and berate Nathan. They should really give the poor girl a personality and a point.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
00:24 / 13.03.05
Just saw the Saturday repeat, and have to disagree with the naysayers.

I don't think misogynistic is the term at all, at all - it's more full throttle misanthropic really. There is not a single likeable or defendable character in the entire universe therein...male, female, straight, gay or stray (I thought that was quite amusing actually - "straight on straight gay action..." - particularly the inspired casting). I find it hard to see how NB is in anyway the 'hero, 'protagonist' or whatever - he is just utterly loathsome in every respect. As is pretty much everyone else.

Whether this is as problematic as everyone seems to think or not, I don't know. I still find it really compelling viewing personally. It's all so icky.
 
 
Ganesh
02:25 / 13.03.05
There is not a single likeable or defendable character in the entire universe therein...

It depends on what you mean by "the entire universe therein". I think a distinction is being drawn here between the clicquey, pathologically self-referential "universe" of London-centric media twattery and the wider reality inhabited by, say, the people on the bus or the coffee-shop, those who are clearly repulsed by Barley and won't engage with him. Hoxton Is Not The World.

I also didn't find the recent episode misogynistic. If anything, it was making a point about how misogyny fits within style/lad-mag culture. The high-fiving of Barley's sexual abuse of a 13-year-old cokehead isn't hard to accept; even in these paedapocalyptic days, there's frequently a sort of tacit 'well done, my son' acceptance/approval of those who sleep with underage girls (having sex with underage boys is viewed rather more harshly). Hey, Barley's practically Bill Wyman!

I agree that Claire's morphing into an irritating Saffy-from-Ab Fab figure, posturing disapproval coupled with self-centred amorality. She's equally happy to exploit Bad Uncle Girl, albeit in a less direct way. I suspect this is part of the more general, admittedly nihilistic point Brooker and Morris are making about the morally-corrosive, ultimately-vacant media "universe". Whether Ashcroft or Claire can resist or escape its gravitational pull remains to be seen.

This, for me, was the episode where Barley becomes something darker than a childlike irritant. I actually found myself quite shocked by his moral turnaround in the face of the sugaRAPE idiots' backslapping.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:14 / 13.03.05
Absolutely...by 'Universe therein' I meant the 'scene' these parasitic non-entities inhabit - and, significantly, force on everyone else as if it is an aspirational, desirable thing...hence the loud conversations on mobiles on the bus, the mp3 remixing etc.

I lso found a much more layered and significant depth to this episode just gone, which seemed to me to be saying a lot more about what sort of people these are and what sort of moral puddle they are floundering in.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:23 / 13.03.05
Also, that Claire is sitting in the pub with Nathan, telling him that as far as she is concerned he got a blowjob off a 13-year-old... frist up, that doesn't make any sense, as NB believed she was an adult when she was gobbing him off, and she was an adult when she was gobbing him off. Second up, why should moral outrage follow this very hard sell rather than, say, the fact that he was getting her to suck him off to pay a coke debt he had encouraged her to build up with him. Third up, if Claire is so morally outraged, why is she in the pub with him?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:30 / 13.03.05
If anything, it was making a point about how misogyny fits within style/lad-mag culture.

Not only that, but how acquiescence and - whats that damn word? Meaning 'seeming to be a victim but actually consciously and wilfully participating in one's own victimisation'? I've been racking my head and thesaurus but drawn a blank. You know what I mean - feeds and supports that misogyny...leading to wider points about society in general.

Anyway, the whole model shoot for sugarape, the poses and abuse and party for the models afterwards, and most obviously the 'damaged goods' Bonobo Syndrome girl : her desire to be 'damaged' and fucked up (as if it lends her 'depth'), and willingness to be exploited in any way if it gets her on camera...I really thought NB's comment to Ashcroft sister (sorry, terrible with names) was portentous -
"And you're against people being given anything in life?"

"Yeah"

"Unless its...free edit gear and cameras, stuff like that...*raised eyebrow*"

"That's completely different"

It was here I thought the show came into its own. These are all supercilious, superiorority-complex, self-obsessed navel gazers, and if you 'like' or 'identify' with one, it has to beg a question or two.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:36 / 13.03.05
Exactamundo Haus..see, the more its discussed here, the more I remember huge layers of personal reaction to last nights episode...the characters reactions to the premise and apparent, but false, moral polarities...it was really rather good.

re: the trailer for next weeks...NB on bus..."No mate, this was practically a Polanski"

Anticipate hearing this in pubs and bars around the square mile starting..ooh, round about today.
 
 
Ganesh
10:54 / 13.03.05
yes, I didn't fully understand the "well, to me she's 13" comment, unless it's intended to convey Claire's need for Bad Uncle Girl to be an abused teen in order to support her own moral-outrage-while-similarly-exploiting.

Jonatton Yeah? explains sugaRAPE's convoluted clause whereby models are reported in the actual fashion shoot commentaries as being six years younger than they are - presumably so the magazine can flirt with the 'edginess' of underage sexuality. This, in turn, impresses the Idiot Chorus, and Barley realises 'edgy underage sexuality' = 'cool', and attempts to parlay this into the wider on-the-bus universe.

But yes, Claire is almost as loathsome now.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:38 / 13.03.05
Also, that Claire is sitting in the pub with Nathan, telling him that as far as she is concerned he got a blowjob off a 13-year-old... frist up, that doesn't make any sense, as NB believed she was an adult when she was gobbing him off

I missed the first half of this week's, but after it's revealed to Claire that Bad Uncle girl is 18, Barley says that's brilliant "because when she gave me a blowjob I thought she was 13."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:10 / 13.03.05
Except he didn't. He was told by Claire that she was 13 right at the end of the blowjob... it's a judgement call.
 
 
Spaniel
13:53 / 13.03.05
Clare wasn't there though. For all she knows Barley was getting sucked off for some time after he found out.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:54 / 13.03.05
Well, I was dead pissed off when I wrote the above, so there's an element of exaggeration in there (cf "every man in the show is clearly established as a misogynist - that's obviously a generalisation). However...

The purpose of the show is appears to be the portrayal of certain posers/wankers in the meedja industry (which some are very familiar with and others less so). I think there's certainly a case to be made for misogyny here.

The constant battering women get in NB is appalling. Just because NB is drawing characters who ape the gormlessly laddish/thuggish mentality of a certain set of people does not mean that the show doesn't have to answer its own charges of misogyny. One of the things that clinches it for me is that there appears to be almost no comment on the values being expressed by any of the characters. As has been commented, Claire is as much a callous scumbag as any of the men in the show, while Ashcroft, though he hates the idiots only slightly less than himself, seems only to do so because he sees them as idiots - they aren't reprehensible, they're just gormless/talentless. And referencing behaviour without providing a context to place it in - especially when you're a maverick comedian with a reputation as an edgy risk-taker/bellicose journalist with a reputation for inventive swearing - is just asking for a value judgment on the programme itself. One of many things that's struck me is the typically lad's magazine style referencing of anal sex as the zenith of any putative sexual relation with a woman - that referencing typically being in the form of anecdotes that could easily qualify as confessions of date rape, ending with a cod-amusing flourish of wit involving some cod-absurdist play on vague ideas about what constitutes anal sex (different doors/entrances ; changing ends/football ; anything involving mention of the colour brown or chocolate seems to get a chuckle). 'You see, she though I'd ordered her a latte, but she got a chocolate cappuccino when her back was turned.' Pretty clunky, I agree, but it was my first go.

As for Barley being the hero... Morris/Brooker make no bones about the fact that Barley is the central figure in the narrative - the show's named after him, he drives many of the plots, and out of a cast of repellent, horrendous individuals with a number of repellent horrendous characteristics, he's representative of all of said characteristics, but magnified and focussed. Barley is more or less the acme of the media personae this show features. And not only is there no value judgement on any of the characteristics he represents, but he is consistently seen to win, every time. Doesn't get to score with the girl he manipulated into bed? He pretends he had her up the arse (see above) and gets kudos. The vacuous chancer gets mocked for his new 'look'? Those crazy Japanese think he's a god. Thinks he's been blown by a minor? Let off the legal hook when she confirms her actual age, gets kudos from the idiots who don't know different. NB doesn't comment on the values or behaviour expressed by the characters within it, and the characters certainly don't comment on themselves, so we're left with a show that consistently parades a certain standard of behaviour without comment and shows the protagonist and principle exponent of said behaviour as coming out on top. In narrative, we sometimes call such a protagonist "the hero".

And please don't try the "the viewer is being made to confront such behaviour and make up their own mind" - we've already had people on this board adopting phrases from the show, and I've heard people at work and amongst my friends, too. The target audience appears to be precisely the kind of bloke who regularly buys lads magazines (as someone pointed out, it's on just after the pubs kick out on a Friday night), and the set-up just isn't complex enough for satire. Nathan Barley is just a sitcom about a misogynist wanker, and not a funny sitcom at that. Reactionary, gutless TV that has no point to make except to seemingly revel in its reactionary gutlessness - Walker: Texas Ranger with less kung-fu and a twatty overbite.
 
 
_pin
12:00 / 14.03.05
The end of the last episode, on the bus talking about a Polanski, was the first time we've actually seen people repulsed by him, no? That feels important, that now he is repulsive, even though all the things he is doing on the bus (doing what people think is cool) are things he's always done on the bus.

Also, I still think the show is made to watch people watching the show, and laugh at those who think it worth watching or disgussing, or best of all quoting and adopting as their own.

And yes, barley is the Hero (although it used to be Ashcroft... ) but that doesn't mean we have to identify or applaud him, or even that the show is attempting to make us. It seems more like he is using the conventions ot make a different point (I felt this way at the start, when they seemed to be giving Ashcroft the position of the guy you would root for within the narrative, yet he was obivously a giant tool).
 
 
Sauron
12:30 / 14.03.05
wicked.
 
 
Sauron
12:31 / 14.03.05
wicked.
 
 
C.Elseware
15:38 / 14.03.05
I like the music, sound and direction. The rest of it is disappointing. Some of the made up slang is amusing, in a Steve Coogan kind of way.

It does seem to be a show that has no target audience.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:47 / 14.03.05
I dunno Jack...You've no need at all to defend your dislike of the show, loads of folks loathe it seemingly (not saying you are defending your opinion, natch)...but...the argument reminds of the RAW essay about violence in movies. People are quick to point out misogynistic flavours they detect in film and tv...but it rarely occurs to anybody to mention violence or hatred towards men...I mean, when was the last time your back got raised because you saw a guy get hit in a film? Or a bunch of guys portrayerd as total fucking idiots and morally bankrupt parasites with no redeeming features whatsoever?

To level a charge of misogyny against Nathan Barley seems to be wilfully ignoring the total contempt on display for every single dramatis personae in it. Yep, even the women don't get off the hook, being as vapid, selfish, amoral and generally crustacean as everyone else involved in Hoxton Meedja circles.

I agree its not necessarily that effective as it could have been...it still seems much less acidic than it could be, but maybe thats desensitisation...I mean, the ep just past was fairly controversial by many standards, featuring drug abuse, cottaging, paedophile overtones and sex for trade to support aforementioned drug abuse. All wrapped up in wanker banter and childish grins. The ep before featured an audio-visual montage called, apparebtly, "Terrorists are Gay".

Is all that just not edgy any more?
 
 
Ganesh
20:12 / 14.03.05
there appears to be almost no comment on the values being expressed by any of the characters

I'm glad "almost" is in there. As I've said above, the self-regarding, self-referential quality of the world inhabited by Barley, Ashcroft, etc. is increasingly apparent - as is, crucially, the fact that it is does not map onto the world in general. This is conveyed by the reactions of the people on the bus, in the coffee-shop, etc. I'll concede that this aspect is probably underplayed but I do think it qualifies as "comment". It's becoming more obvious with each episode, too, as if the frame of reference is pulling out, showing more, lending a wider context to Barley and his Hoxton Twat microverse.

I'll be interested to see where they go with this in the final episode.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:22 / 14.03.05
Money $hot - is the word you seek "submissiveness"?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
07:25 / 15.03.05
Hi Whiskey P - no, that's not it. It's still doing my head in, lurking on the tip of my brain stem, but refusing to come out to play...it's somewhere in the neighbourhood of 'complicity' or 'complicit' though...in fact, that may just be the little bugger right there!
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
07:29 / 15.03.05
'Submissive complicity' - ah, le mot juste

Thanks for that!
 
 
Lama glama
20:37 / 18.03.05
Is something brilliant happening here?

Hmmm...hard to say. It certainly continued the trend set by earlier episodes, with Nathan becoming the sympathetic character and Dan Ashcroft's actions and deeds becoming more abhorrent with every passing moment.

I'll reserve judgement until I've seen all of the episodes again. Which may take a while as I just don't feel a desire to buy a series about people who deserve all the bad things that happen to them.

This episode also yielded the first laugh out loud moment for me, in the climactic scenes, with Dan jumping from the closet waving the "gun."
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:51 / 18.03.05
It was an odd episode. Dan was abhorant, and Nathan's guilt trip seemed miss-placed. Anyone who has looked at trashbat would know that Nathan is constantly hurts Pingu for the sake of his web-movies, he had just gotten a pilot off of it! Pingu was there to be hurt for him, and once he knew that he wasn't dead, surely it didn't matter what had happened? Still, the tv guy was funny, and that line quoted above 'is this something brilliant' summed up the whole show's character drive for me, all afraid of being left out of something brilliant. The problem is that Dan and Claire come across as pious, when they both want to be part of the world that has spawned these idiots - the show bookened on them interviewing for jobs with idiots. I missed a couple of episodes, so will have to go back and watch them, but for me, it was okay, not amazing, but had a couple of good moments.
 
  

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