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Redeeming Star Trek

 
  

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FinderWolf
15:09 / 31.08.05
There are net reports (not rumors, actual facts) that a guy who wrote the HBO miniseries Band of Brothers just handed in a draft of Star Trek: The Beginning or something like that to Paramount; it's supposed to take place just after Enterprise but before the original show. The writer says it's not your typical 'ship captain and crew' thing, it's about a small group of individuals and something big regarding the Federation. There is a wildly unsubstantiated rumor that David Boreanaz is talked about to star in it.

Weird. Why don't they just do new post-Voyager stuff, enough of this going back to before the original series.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:15 / 31.08.05
it does seems to be mining an era that has been done as much as it needs to be.

i still think any new series should be fast forwarded another 100 years or more. Leave some of the baggage and continuity behind and start fresh.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
21:40 / 31.08.05
I'm no Trekkie so please forgive me if this has been done before:

I reckon they could have a show dedicated to a more covert wing of the Federation's fleet: an unofficial, unrecognised rogue squad who "do what has to be done but no-one else will to do". Espionage, covert exploration, secret character histories, and black op's could be pushed to the limit and contrasted with the more clean-cut Utopian image of Star Trek we're familiar with. e.g. a mission to rescue Picard from a super-violent race of aliens. Indeed, the politics and morality of the Federation itself (i.e. as a kind of cosmic superpower) could be discussed, played with, and developed as a sideline, etc. e.g. having a conspiracy at the top, as was suggested in an earlier post.
 
 
rabideyemovement
22:55 / 31.08.05
You could go with the old Utopian concept of the Federation in a new series, or....

You could focus on any of the other races that have been explored during the series' history. Think about an all-Klingon cast or a rebellious Vulcan crew. Every team needn't be a rehash of the previous Federation crew. There's an entire universe of inhabitants and governments that's been built over the past half a century.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:31 / 01.09.05
How about projecting it even further into the future? Having the story based around a warp-capable species at approximately Original Series level. Then have the Federation in the background as a vast meta-civilisation with Culture level powers (ref. The Culture, Iain Banks) that's just this malevolent entity everyone's scared will come in and take away everyone's toys.

Alternatively; a Cardassian crew that solve all their problems with unethical science, threats, intimidation, and deceit.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:47 / 01.09.05
I've been watching reruns of DS9 recently, after five or six years of Voyager and Enterprise I'd forgotten how good DS9 could often be (and jaw droppingly awful too).

I don't believe the story about the story set between Enterprise and TOS. If there was a willingness to do shows in the past they would have continued with Enterprise, and they certainly wouldn't have burned the crew with that awful last episode, almost giving more time to Riker and Troi.

I still think there's room for them to basically do Andromeda, but do it in a Star Trek stylee. After all, no-one actually watches Andromeda any more do they? Is it even still being made?
 
 
Seth
09:49 / 01.09.05
I reckon they could have a show dedicated to a more covert wing of the Federation's fleet: an unofficial, unrecognised rogue squad who "do what has to be done but no-one else will to do". Espionage, covert exploration, secret character histories, and black op's could be pushed to the limit and contrasted with the more clean-cut Utopian image of Star Trek we're familiar with. e.g. a mission to rescue Picard from a super-violent race of aliens. Indeed, the politics and morality of the Federation itself (i.e. as a kind of cosmic superpower) could be discussed, played with, and developed as a sideline, etc. e.g. having a conspiracy at the top, as was suggested in an earlier post.

They've already got the perfect set-up for this in DS9 with Section 31 and the Orion Syndicate. The storylines you mention have been played out in DS9 to an extent (and the one you mention with Picard was a TNG double episode)... I certainly wouldn't want the show to get a great deal darker than DS9, which already had the a planet killer captain, many terrorist/spy heros and a Federation conspiring to commit genocide.
 
 
Seth
09:57 / 01.09.05
Basically DS9 was what everyone seems to want from Trek while still retaining its Trekness... and no-one watched it. Enough so that people raise these ideas and don't realise that they've already been done.

Agreed that it had its flaws, but watch it enough and these all add to the charm. I've rarely seen any other American genre TV hit the heights of Duet, Improbably Cause/The Die is Cast, A Call to Arms, Rocks and Shoals, Far Beyond the Stars or When it Rains.../Tacking into the Wind (not isolated examples. I might compile a list of all the truly essential episodes). This is a series in need of reassessment, espceially considering that it would never get made today. Major/Colonel/Commander Kira, anyone?

Come on! It had Jeff Combs and Louise Fletcher as recurring villains! What's not to like?
 
 
Tom Coates
11:24 / 01.09.05
There was an episode of Next Gen in which warp drive in an area of space had resulted in a place where subspace had kind of eroded and after that the crew of the Enterprise had to stay under Warp 8 for risk of further damaging space. I found that really interesting at the time. I'll come back to that in a moment.

Basically the various Star Trek shows since Next Generation had been hinting at the apparent decadence and over-ripeness of the Federation and how complacent it had become, and ripe for corruption. Again - all of which I thought was an interesting parallel to Americas sense of self-perception at the time, of a noble experiment drifting away from its aspirations. So it seemed to me part of the thing you had to do in this environment was to try and redeem the Federation and make it a positive aspirational thing again by making a break from that in some way. Also it had become clear that a larger block of the technology that they'd developed they were using to compensate for a lack in clarity on stories, and one other thing that I found very annoying - that frankly their vision of the future became increasingly less alien or strange and has started to look a bit dated. That last thing seemed to me to be kind of unfixable, frankly, except to try and start pushing it in weirder directions.

What I'd hoped was going to happen did - in fact - not. My desire was that the final episodes of Voyager would show a ship that had been travelling for decades arrive back in an Alpha Quadrant that it barely recognised and in which they were pretty much the sole representatives of a functioning and aspirationally noble Federation. My thought was that the problems in space-time caused by Warp travel had escalated dramatically, creating a chain reaction that made warp drive pretty much totally impractical, and that for the last twenty years or so, most of the planets in the federation had been pretty much isolated from one another and had started going in radically different directions. Some technologies had been lost, families had been split apart, different races had been rammed together on certain planets, planets that were not self-sufficient had been forced to completely re-orient their production etc. etc. In this environment, younger races who hadn't been engaged in the federation for as long would be in a better state to cope with things than the older established planets. In the depths of space, some ships had been trapped in subspace by the collapse, others had been marooned in the middle of nowhere.

Into this environment comes Voyager, pretty much the only known ship in the Federation able to travel between worlds because of its reclaimed technology from around the whatever sector, but in a slower fashion. This makes the ship incredibly valuable to anyone whose system it arrives in. The premise of the new show is that a Federation needs to be rebuilt, with Voyager being the hub of that activity either with a generational crew, or with the existing crew displaced twenty years, or - my particular favourite - with a new crew of aspirational multi-racial idealists from earth figuring out that the crashed ship might have the ability to fly between planets and deciding to steal it and try to use it to remake the universe.

And of course, no one knows what has happened to all the worlds on the edge of what was Klingon territory or Romulan territory or whatever, and each of those world's may be isolated or not for all any of our crew knows.

it sounds a bit too much like Andromeda, I guess, in retrospect, but I liked the way that you could gradually reintroduce characters or races after twenty years and illustrate significant changes. For example, I always assumed that the grub-like Ferengi, continually obsessed with acquisition were kind of pupating higher order beings of some kind, frantically accumulating for their chrysalis stage. I had this theory that they'd end up being the wormhole aliens of DS9. Twenty years of exposure to different spacial radiation or being trapped in subspace or whatever might force this transition in some way. Suddenly, a radically different culture appears to operate with. I'm thinking also docile Klingons subdued by chemicals in the water on one world, an emerging group of long-distance telepaths being used to communicate between worlds, new distant territories turning towards religion and spirituality, high science worlds finding new ways of travelling, totally holographic cultures achieving equal recognition, etc. etc. etc. Could be a laugh...
 
 
Tom Coates
11:26 / 01.09.05
The other thing I've wanted a show to do for years was to pretend it was something it wasn't. Launch a show called "Foundation" or something on a sci-fi network, don't pitch it as a Star Trek show at all, and then in episode four or five blow everyone's heads off when they walk into a room and find out that it's been a star trek show all along. From then on, call it Star Trek: Foundation. I wanted them to do that with Doctor Who as well...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
12:44 / 01.09.05
I love the idea of it not being a ST show until a few episodes in. But then, I love that kind of thing anyway.

At the local comic con here, they had people from Dreamworks for locals comix folk to pitch their ideas to, and I pitched one that I still think would be great...but they said that it wasn't practical.

It starts with Morgan Freeman in his "I'm the gizzled detective who can stop serial killers" mode, and pair him up with the cute young actress of the time (like they did with him and Ashley Judd) as they investigate people being found ripped apart with bade parts missing. As the story progresses, they find that the bodies are being ripped to shreads...and then Jeff Goldblum shows up in the autopsy room and lets us know that the people are being killed by the escaped Raptors from the Jurassic Park. And now we know it's a sequl to Jurassic Park and the roller coaster begins.

The marketing would hinge on not letting people know, and play off the buzz that "The Sixth Sense" gopt, where people were surprised by a movie for the first time in years.

They said they liked the idea, but no one in charge of things would allow a movie that twisted the audience that much.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:12 / 01.09.05
What was the title of the famous "There are four lights!" TNG episode where Picard gets tortured and interrogated by the always excellent David Warner? That was aces.
 
 
Jub
16:46 / 01.09.05
Hi FinderWolf - that's actually the second part of a two parter called "Chain of Command". The whole episode (ie both parts) is a story about how the Cardassians are building up to war and want to get at Picard as he is the captain of the flag ship etc.

Picard is questioned & tortured by Gul Madred, who uses an implanted device to cause Picard the pain he shows rather well (apparently they consulted Amnesty International on these scenes)

Two other quick points about the episode. Loving Captain Jellico (as captain while Picard's away) but also (and more importantly) the 4 lights would've been more effective I think if they hadn't blatently ripped it off and actually paid homage to the original and best 1984 (with "how many fingers Winston" etc).
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:00 / 01.09.05
Tom and Solitaire, loving that approach to storytelling. I wish people would aim to shock and surprise people in more intelligent ways more often.

I wrote a short story like that once. It was positing the idea what if Boo Radley actually DID turn out to be a crazy monster in the last few pages and the book suddenly turned very intense and delivered on the threats it coyly set up.

I wrote it in a very Harper Lee way, and it was about two boys trading ghost stories about the monster in the basement of the hospital. so they broke into it one night and the monster turned out to be real. Went over well in my composition class at college.
 
 
fluid_state
19:07 / 01.09.05
There was an episode of Next Gen in which warp drive in an area of space had resulted in a place where subspace had kind of eroded and after that the crew of the Enterprise had to stay under Warp 8 for risk of further damaging space. I found that really interesting at the time.

Big time. I keep thinking that if anyone is going to make a return to the serious Star Trek* while advancing the timeline, this would be a good base. A fictional playground not terribly unlike our current reality, as it were.

On the other hand, they could get a lot of good mileage out of just letting the live-action lie low for a while. Bang out a couple of seasons of animated shorts, at ANY point along the ST timeline. 15 - 120 minute serialized tales + celebrity voices = a visibly palpitating fanbase. If they want to re-invent themselves and keep their "brand", they might as well do it with teh geek cred.

*BWAH_HA_HA!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:30 / 01.09.05
Of all the ideas mentioned here, which are all good, i think the best one is the idea of setting the show on board an alien vessel. It would throw up a whole new array of possibilities while at the same time relating to back to what we know already.

If they were to do this, who would be the best species and why?
 
 
Aertho
21:41 / 01.09.05
The thing about Star Trek species is that they are so blatantly extrapolated from the baseline human. Aggresive honor codes = Klingon. Pristine logic = Vulcan. Acquisition fever = Ferengi. The "true enemies", like Cardassians and Romulans have little to differentiate them. And that's also what makes them so indistinguishable from Federated human —except that we're told they're the bad guy. And reminded of their sins twenty times per episode.

And while a show wrapped around the aspects of the Romulan or Cardassian empires might be worth watching, they're not going to be that interesting. Turnabout isn't fair play.

That's why I suggest Bajoran. First generation of Federation approved starfighters, complete with a cast of religious fundamentalists, racism, fueds, weird discoveries for the ignorant space-newbies, and a very few high-ranking officers trying desperately to hang on to Federation treaties and sanctions. High ideals struggling with the weight of reality and a body not strong enough for the pressures the brain puts it through. Basically, a show about "new democracy" Iraq.
 
 
Aertho
00:06 / 02.09.05
Or: America as it really is.
 
 
agent darkbootie
22:06 / 08.09.05
except, of course, you'd have to queer it up big-time. tkae your usual Captain Kirk hetero action, but then throw in some randy space dykes, Vulcan slave boys in positronic neutrino-beam bondage collars, and omnipotent aliens who capture the crew and subject them to strange probes. maybe have the ship's doctor be a hermaphrodite.

Um... No?

I mean, come on. Why does every sci-fi show have to be "queered up?" "Doctor Who" has gotten queer enough for the whole genre at the moment. Can't us heterosexual guys have some fun without the camp faction wanting to crash our party? (It wasn't ALL about the outfits, folks!)

Besides, there are plenty of OTHER ways to make an old clichéd genre interesting besides throwing in bits gay culture. At this late date queerbending has become a bit of a clichéd genre in itself. (Batman, Flash Gordon, and half of all fan fiction.) Hey, I want the gritty BSG-esque take on "Barbarella."


Well, now that this message seems like a hopelessly anti-queer-culture rant, or the deluded musings of an idiot who didn't see the irony of the previous post, let me get down to the issue.

In the mid 60's, "Star Trek" was a reaction against everything that Roddenberry thought was ridiculous, stupid and entrenched in science-fiction TV. The silver suits, the rocket trails, the evil one-eyed space monsters, the lingering legacy of "Buck Rogers" that had nothing to do with science, or, as he saw it, science-fiction.

Flash-forward to 2005, and now "Star Trek" is the problem legacy, heavy with conventions that seems just as ridicuouls and stupid from our eyes. The technobabble solutions. The alien cultures who are "just like us, but...!" The stiff characters with no personal flaws. Guys on a bridge pointing at screens. Whole dramatic moments that turn on whether or not the sheilds are gonna fail. It's dull and predictable and no wonder nobody's had any new ideas on how to fix it. How would you fix "Buck Rogers" in 1965?

The only way to repair Star Trek is to let it rest long enough so we can see why it failed. Then come back to it with fresh eyes and fresh perspectives. New ideas will come when we find the cracks in the genre we never knew needed patching.

Personally, I'd dump the military aspect. Make the show about a civilian guy in a personal space ship kicking around the Federation, just trying to make the monthly payments and struggling with his own sense of heroism.

Make the galaxy seem strange and vast possible to our sheltered Western eyes. Make the computers buggy. (Why was there never an I.T. guy on the Enterprise?) Make the engineer a mystic. (We're talking about bending the laws of the universe, here!) Make aleins truly foreign, but truly alluring. (Is there a reason we got Orion green women during the sexual-revolutionary 60's, Picard sleeping alone in the 80's, and cold hardbody posturing in Trek-2000?)

Make the smart characters cool again. Make your writing staff take psychedelic drugs. Make it a show that opens people's minds to wonder and possibility instead of just mucking them in two-sided moral quagmires.

Wait until the culture has gotten to a place where it needs the Final Frontier again, because then we can really imagine a new frontier again.

And when that time comes, throw "Star Trek" away, because someone out there will be bursting to do something so completely original it will blow everything that came before it out of the ether.

See. How easy is that?
 
 
MJ-12
23:31 / 08.09.05
Make the show about a civilian guy in a personal space ship kicking around the Federation, just trying to make the monthly payments and struggling with his own sense of heroism.

BJ and The Bear in space. Awesome.
 
 
Seth
00:04 / 09.09.05
Make that civilian guy Moriarty and never explain how he's flesh and blood... and you've got yourself one high fucking concept.
 
 
matthew.
01:49 / 09.09.05
I'd go back in time, before Joss Whedan wrote Firefly, and I'd hand him the reins to the entire universe.

The great thing about Star Trek is the entire mythology. The great thing about Joss Whedon is his dialogue and characters. I love Star Trek and I love Joss Whedon.

Or even better, J.J. Abrams from Lost.

For me, Star Trek is at its very best when it's dealing with larger mythology ideas. It's at its worst when it's got the "alien-of-the-week" episode. It's boring.
(TANGENT: On the flipside, that's why I liked The X-Files, because I was more interested in the monster of the week as opposed to the greater story arc (which was tedious, IMHO))
Abrams and Whedon are excellent at handling something larger and deeper. Come on, admit you watch Lost because you want to know the truth, not because you care about the characters. Star Trek needs a mini-series steeped in mystery.

Or as 22:10:2::22:10:2 wrote, a big fucking war between The Borg and everybody else. According to startrek.com's documentaries (god I'm nerdy), the last we know of the Borg was when Admiral Janeway destroys the gateways the Borg use. How about the Borg build a gateway and start attacking Earth. This time, however, the Federation brings in alternate universe ships to fight them, multiple Enterprises, multiple Voyagers.

Also, 22:10:2::22:10:2, you wrote earlier that Voyager could be upgraded by the Borg. Voyager says machine planet. Here's something: it was Cybertron. Haha, just joking.
 
 
Seth
10:14 / 09.09.05
The great thing about Joss Whedon is his dialogue and characters.

All his characters speak in the same way, make the same kinds of quips. Whole major characters get lost for entire seasons with barely anything to do. I'd say he's extremely hit and miss in those departments. Jury's out on whether Whedon can manage his own properties, let alone something as large as Trek.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:05 / 09.09.05
I'd say that, by introducing a single bisexual character who is not camp at all, Doctor Who has clearly wrench science fiction horribly into the land of the gayers. Did you know that one of the writers was a GAY as well?

I think we need a Trek where men and women basically screw all the time, and no men do men. Also, there should be some fighting with bare fists. There should be ladies, who work in ladylike capacities like medicine and counselling. The main character should be a man, who has a manly beard and is all hetero. He should like to have the sex with ladies, and the ladies should like him and his beard very much.

RIKER: THE FURTHER ADVENTURES?

Sounds great.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:45 / 09.09.05
But Ricker nearly had sex with a hermaphrodite!

But then she wasn't really a hermaphrodite!

So that's okay then!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:46 / 09.09.05
When was Batman queerbent?
 
 
Seth
11:59 / 09.09.05
Recent work of art with him snoggin Robin. All a bit boring and obvious. Forgotten the name of the artist and the gallery, DC demanded it was taken down.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:21 / 09.09.05
So not officially within the canon then. Much like fan fiction. Would I be in danger of losing my money if I wagered that Flash Gordon wasn't made gay in an actual Flash Gordon film or comic or cartoon, either? And that in fact, the heterosexual male is not being squeezed out of mainstream science fiction television or any other medium by the gays...
 
 
Seth
13:04 / 09.09.05
Certainly not that I've noticed.
 
 
matthew.
14:10 / 09.09.05
Seth, your disagreement with me probably stems from the fact that you haven't read any of Astonishing X-men, written by Whedon. It's the only book in the past while where each character sounds like they should sound, where the X-men are actually people, and not the crazy psychos of the early nineties.
 
 
Aertho
14:55 / 09.09.05
matt's new.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:16 / 09.09.05
Scary...Shatner himself will sing the theme at the Emmys...I wonder if they'll use the lyrics. I read long ago that there are lyrics to the original show's song which they thankfully axed (all I remember is the last line is something like "My star trek will go on", and I'm not kidding - it was something like a plaintive love song).

from Cinescape:

>> As part of the 57th Annual Primetime Emmy Awards, which air on September 18 on CBS, a lineup of stars and professional singers will face off in what is being described as "an American-Idol-esque contest."

>> The stars will perform classic TV theme songs throughout the three-hour ceremony. Viewers will be encouraged to vote during the live broadcast, either by text message or via www.cbs.com, with the winning rendition announced at the end of the show.

>> Of key importance to sci-fi fans, William Shatner will team up with mezzo-soprano von Stade to perform the theme from STAR TREK.

>> Executive producer Ken Ehrlich told E!, "There are certain television theme songs that are nearly as memorable as the shows connected to them... By jogging memories as well as creating wonderful moments by having them performed on this year's Emmy show, we think we're giving viewers one more reason to tune in and be entertained."
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:52 / 09.09.05
OK, fuck the high concept, we bring Kirk back from the dead, give him a new ship of people to go around the galaxy in, but he's got space-Alzheimers which can't be cured, so he keeps starting fights with people for no reason, chases anything in a skirt and keeps saying his name to make sure he doesn't forget.

Come on, what could be wrong with that?
 
 
Aertho
15:55 / 09.09.05
Isn't that the same thing as Boston Legal? Only opposite Candace Bergen?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:34 / 10.09.05
Get Russell T Davies to write it.

(Though, as he makes clear in QAF, Star Trek's not really his bag. He'd probably just make it really gay. But not camp. You do know that gay=camp=gay isn't a FACT, don't you?)
 
  

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