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Syria, Iran: Back on the Agenda?

 
  

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unheimlich manoeuvre
22:11 / 17.02.05
Withdrawing your ambassador, if my memory serves me correctly, used to be in preparation for war, but these days is more a tool in brinkmanship.
Baz - the assasination in Lebanon is too organized for local militia and is probably state sponsored, but which state?

Washington Times 15/02/05

Syria was quick in denouncing "the terrible criminal act" as President Bashar Assad described it in a statement. Assad extended his country's support of the Lebanese cabinet and people "during such dangerous circumstances."

While Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk Sharaa called on the Lebanese to be strong and refuse "any internal strife or foreign intervention," Syria's Information Minister Mahdi Dakhlallah said "Lebanon's enemies are the ones to benefit from this crime."

Qatar's al-Jazeera television broadcast a tape that showed a bearded man claiming to speak on behalf of a hitherto unknown Muslim fundamentalist group, "Jamaat al-Nasrat wal-Jihad-Bilad al-Sham" (Al Jihad's Partisans for Greater Syria). The group is believed to be linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network.


The Guardian February 17, 2005

Bush said he would talk with allies ``to make sure we continue to speak with one voice'
' in demanding that Iran not develop nuclear weapons. He also said he would seek a consensus on how to press Syria to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.


Reuters Feb 17, 2005

Iran accused its long-time foe Washington of using a brief worldwide scare over an explosion on Wednesday near its only nuclear reactor to unleash "psychological warfare."

The explosion -- first reported by Iranian television as a possible airplane missile strike but later said to have been an errant construction site blast -- rattled an anxious world.

Washington has accused Iran of trying to develop nuclear weapons, and it is seeking to halt any potential weapons-related work.

Iran, rich in oil but struggling to provide power for a growing population, denies that it is developing nuclear arms and says its program is solely for generating electricity.

"As you know, the Iranian issue hasn't even gotten to the (U.N.) Security Council yet. And so there's more diplomacy, in my judgment, to be done," Bush told a news conference called to present his new U.S. intelligence czar.

Bush's remarks suggested that any moves toward military action would wait at least until after the matter goes before the United Nations for possible sanctions.

Vice President Dick Cheney recently raised the possibility that Israel, Washington's close ally, might take matters into its own hands and bomb suspected Iranian nuclear sites.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
23:55 / 27.02.05
Independent 28 February 2005

Russia agreed a deal with Iran yesterday to provide nuclear fuel for the country's only nuclear reactor, enabling the plant to come on stream next year amid US fears that Tehran may be developing a nuclear weapon.


BBC news. 27 February, 2005

Lebanese opposition groups are set to rally in Beirut on Monday, defying a ban and sparking fears of clashes.

Opponents of the Syria-backed government are gathering to demand an inquiry into the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.The ban was imposed after pro-government groups called for a counter-demonstration at the same time and place as the anti-government one.

A US official is visiting Lebanon to push for an end to Syrian influence.

The pro-government, pro-Syrian rally has been convened partly to protest against the arrival in Beirut of a US deputy secretary of state, David Satterfield.


...

Is it me or is the temperature rising again?
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
15:46 / 09.03.05
The Guardian Wed March 9, 2005
Bush sees Lebanon changes as move to free Middle East.

White House officials have told journalists that the president sees some "validation" for the Iraq invasion in the current democratic trend in such countries as Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian territories.

telegraph.co.uk Wed March 9, 2005
Bullish Bush hails 'shift to democracy'

He also maintained the pressure on Iran over its nuclear ambitions and its history of supporting terrorist groups, explicitly backing the opponents of the mullahs in Teheran. "We look forward to the day when the Iranian people are free," he said in his speech to Washington's National Defence University.

Mr Bush had a softer message for Washington's traditional Arab allies, in particular Egypt and Saudi Arabia, who have in the last two months made faltering steps towards democratic reform. "Each country in the Middle East will take a different path of reform," he said.
 
 
grant
14:45 / 11.01.07
U.S. Troops Raid Iranian Consulate.

Iran released news of the raid through its Islamic Republic News Agency.... that U.S. forces entered the Iranian consulate in Irbil, in Iraq's Kurdish-dominated north, and seized computers, documents and other items. The report said five staff members were taken into custody.

The Iranian Foreign Ministry appealed to the Iraqi government to obtain the release of its personnel.

U.S. officials have not confirmed the raid but did say in a press release that they had taken six people into custody in Irbil during the course of "routine security operations."


Well.
 
 
grant
21:10 / 11.01.07
This could be the start of something very bad indeed.

Of course we need more troops. Pushing outward will not be easy.
 
 
Slim
02:20 / 12.01.07
Assuming those Iranians really were up to no good, what were they doing that made it so important to arrest them? Surely everyone knew that it would cause a ruckus. I hope that it was worth it.
 
 
grant
13:12 / 12.01.07
"No, but Iran does.
-- Naval officer in the Persian Gulf, responding to the well-intentioned comment, "At least Iraq doesn't have an Air Force."

(from DailyKOS, so some question as to sourcing remains.)
 
 
grant
19:11 / 23.03.07
Iran seizes 50 UK sailors.

Yes, back on the agenda.
 
 
sleazenation
21:49 / 23.03.07
15, not 50.
 
 
grant
02:47 / 24.03.07
Wow, I'm damaged. Yes, 15.
 
 
sleazenation
08:35 / 24.03.07
It should be noted that this is not the first time Iran has captured British personnel claiming that they have crossed into their territorial waters...

the last time was in 2004.

Most analyst's I've heard have at least suggested that this could be a tit-for-tat action in response to either further impending sanctions or detention of several Iranian 'diplomats/spies.
 
 
jentacular dreams
19:14 / 24.03.07
They also point out that our diplomatic relationship in those days was, whilst not 'best of friends', a hell of a lot better than it has become recently.
 
 
David Batty
10:36 / 25.03.07
You know it's almost as if the Mullahs want to push Brits into seeing the execrable 300. Interesting piece by Robert Tait in the Obs today about Iranian views of the UK.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:52 / 25.03.07
Although this is quite speculative and theoretical, how would America be towards Iran had either Mogadesh suceeded or the Pahlavi line continued?
 
 
sleazenation
15:54 / 25.03.07
You mean Mossadegh, right? as in Mohammed Mossadegh (or sometimes Mosaddeq) - the democratically elected prime minister of Iran in the 1950s.

I ask because I'm not sure what you mean by you question since it was the CIA that orchestrated the coup (supported and funded by the British and the U.S. governments) against Mossadegh.
 
 
BrianFitzgerald
18:34 / 27.03.07
U.S. Navy increases Persian Gulf presence

The U.S. Navy on Tuesday began its largest demonstration of force in the Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, deploying two aircraft carriers and conducting simulated aerial attacks.

The maneuvers, involving 15 U.S. warships and more than a hundred planes, were certain to increase tension with Iran, which has frequently condemned the U.S. military presence off its coastline.
 
 
sleazenation
20:39 / 27.03.07
Wow - it's a good thing that US Navy doesn't have a history of shooting down civilian Iranian airlines - oh, wait a minute...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:43 / 27.03.07
Is nobody else getting the irony of the UK claiming "we" weren't in Iranian territory, but being unable to produce any evidence because of weather conditions, and Iran claiming the UK vessel WAS in Iranian territory...

...while "we"'re doing the big "Falklands 20 years" thing? Because, y'know, it's not exactly beyond "us" to fucking BLOW THE SHIT out of a ship that's not only NOT in the area in which it's not supposed to be, but is sailing away from it...

Just sayin', is all.
 
 
Slim
01:00 / 28.03.07
I could be wrong but didn't the Iraqis verify that the British were in Iraqi and not Iranian waters?
 
 
---
18:32 / 16.08.07
It looks like things are getting stupid now, as the US is said to be planning on labelling Iran's Revolutionary Guards as a terrorist unit. How stupid is that?

One of the reasons given is :

Washington views the guards force as a state within a state, which has tentacles in business activities and is involved in Iran's nuclear programme.

I can't believe that. It's not like any sections of the American military or security forces do the same type of things is it? Nope...

These guys seem to love (and I mean government officals in more countries than just America, which should be obvious.) pointing out the flaws of others when they're doing exactly the same things themselves. They just take the piss because, well.....who's going to do anything about it?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:24 / 17.08.07
Which labelling presumably means it's fine to pick fights with the RG now, in US war code?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:22 / 17.08.07
Well yes, and the country which "harbours" them. It's a neat trick- get a coalition going who agree that terrorists are legitimate targets, then change the definition of "terrorist".

A neat trick, but a fucking evil one.
 
 
grant
13:38 / 31.08.07
At least one person on The Daily Kos thinks something's happening next week.

The tactical/strategic points are interesting, whether or not the "we have four days" part is hooey.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:02 / 02.09.07
Pentagon ‘three-day blitz’ plan for Iran

THE Pentagon has drawn up plans for massive airstrikes against 1,200 targets in Iran, designed to annihilate the Iranians’ military capability in three days, according to a national security expert.

Alexis Debat, director of terrorism and national security at the Nixon Center, said last week that US military planners were not preparing for “pinprick strikes” against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “They’re about taking out the entire Iranian military,” he said.

Debat was speaking at a meeting organised by The National Interest, a conservative foreign policy journal. He told The Sunday Times that the US military had concluded: “Whether you go for pinprick strikes or all-out military action, the reaction from the Iranians will be the same.” It was, he added, a “very legitimate strategic calculus”.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:03 / 05.12.07
Iran finally abandons its terrifying nuclear weapons program... in 2003. Bush lies about it.
 
 
grant
16:11 / 15.01.08
Big to do when Iranian gunboats approach a US Navy ship off the coast of Iran... in what turns out to be Iranian territorial waters?
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
02:12 / 14.02.08
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDMV_xZprRrThFQhO1XF4v4Cw1YAD8UO9F480

You have to wonder why a country like Iran needs an enrichment program and a space program. Furthermore why does a country sitting on abundant supplies of oil need to generate power via more expensive nuclear plants. Even if it DID decide to go to the extra expense of nuclear power (for some as yet unknown reason), why does it need to use fast neutron reactors when the more traditional thermal reactors are cheaper to build and run? Why will they not take HEU from Russia who is offering to take it back and store it if they don't want to keep the materials themselves? If not for weapons, why does Iran need fissile material?

And if reason can be found for any of this, why do they need a space program when they could contract satellite launches out to Europe, Russia or China far more cheaply than developing their own capability? I'm afraid that Iran is and always has been the real proliferation concern - not Iraq. It's a pity that the US now has a blodoy nose in Iraq, they may not have the political stomach to deal with the issue.

Could that be what this is all about?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/nato/story/0,,2244782,00.html
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:57 / 14.02.08
Why shouldn't Iran have a space program? You'd think looking after their people would be more important but in this they are following the U.S., China and Russia.

And did you not notice the irony in the first line of that Guardian article, NATO are saying we must attack with nuclear weapons to stop being attacked with nuclear weapons, presumably because we're using good Christian neutrons unlike those evil Islamic neutrons.

The Iran regime aren't on my top five Governments list but surely you've played enough strategy games to know that building up your resources in order to survive an attack is a key policy plan. And which is the West more likely to attack, an Iran with or without nuclear weapons?

As for Iran being more the true concern than Iraq, gosh, are you suggesting that the real reason for attacking Iraq wasn't due to Islamic terrorism?
 
 
The Idol Rich
08:22 / 14.02.08
"The Iran regime aren't on my top five Governments list but surely you've played enough strategy games to know that building up your resources in order to survive an attack is a key policy plan."

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, from my own purely selfish perspective I would prefer it if Iran didn't have nuclear weapons but for Iran it makes perfect sense. Do you think that the US (and friends) would have attacked Iraq if they had had nuclear weapons? My guesss is no and that means that an unfortunate consequence of US belligerence is that countries who feel that they are potential enemies of the US are likely to consider how vulnerable they are without that protection and what they are going to do about it.
That's not to mention the fact that Iran's sworn enemy Israel is not at all far away and allegedly (ha) has a highly developed nuclear programme of its own.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:06 / 14.02.08
You have to wonder why a country like Iran needs an enrichment program and a space program.

Why wouldn't they? We've got both of those, and in our case also the question of 'need' is controversial. What's so special about Iran that, in your opinion, makes them a kind of country which should not need these projects?
 
 
elene
17:20 / 14.02.08
Fungus, you say, why does a country sitting on abundant supplies of oil need to generate power via more expensive nuclear plants. Well, I’d have thought that would be obvious to someone who believes that we have either peaked (in oil production) or are due to do so in no more than a decade. And I’d also like to know what's so special about Iran that, in your opinion, makes them a kind of country which should not need access to nuclear power and the ability to launch satellites.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
23:09 / 14.02.08
Clearly, given statements from NATO and the US, the west is more likely to attack a nuclear capable Iran, even where that capability is nascent. The US, NATO and Israel have only talked of attacking Iran since Iran started developing technologies that may lead them to a nuclear weapons capability.

Regiment - When you say "we" I assume that you are referring to the UK? If so, the UK retains an enrichment capability to sustain its own declared nuclear weapons arsenal. Same goes for the USA. "We" in Australia don't have a nuclear weapons capability as such we don't enrich uranium. Iran has been offered reactor grade uranium by Russia, so why does Iran need to go to the expense of constructing centrifuge cascades to obtain something they could get far cheaper on the open market? There are many countries that enrich uranium for sale to countries wishing to generate power. Furthermore, countries that currently enrich submit to full IAEA inspections and audits, Iran doesn't. You don't need HEU (Highly Enriched Uranium - >85% U235) to run power reactors. Given these facts you have to ask why Iran needs an enrichment capability if it doesn't seek weapons grade material? Why won't it submit to a FULL IAEA inspection regime?

Elene - I argue that we are at or nearing peak oil, not the "end" of oil. Extraction will continue for many years after the point of peak extraction. Iran has (I believe) the third largest reserves in the world. It has more than enough to create a strategic reserve with enough left over to sell for foreign currency. Iran's reserves are also not fully exploited so Iran's production peak will occur sometime after world production has peaked due to the fact that their production capability will rise over the coming years. Presumably this will mean that Iran will get a higher price for its oil as demand increases price per barrel.

As for an Iranian space program, my argument follows a very similar line as above with regards to this capability. All of the "space-faring" nations initially got into the "space race" as a result of their pursuit of long range, unmanned delivery of their nuclear warheads. The exception to this may be Europe, although a lot of their rocket technology came from the French missile programs (this also allowed France to offset their research costs). There is no doubt that civil space programs exist, but these are largely secondary to to the main pursuit - strategic weapons delivery. Why does Iran need to go to the expense of developing their own space-lift technology and capability when this could be contracted out to the likes of Europe, China, and Russia at a far reduced cost?

Why I don't I think Iran should have these technologies? Iran has regional aspirations that are manifesting themselves in some openly aggressive policies. Iran is fighting a war against Israel through their proxy, Hezbollah. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard supplies Hezbollah with monetary, material and ideological support. This is why the US has designated the IRGC a terrorist organisation. We could argue until the cows come home over whether the IRGC or even Hezbollah are terrorist organisations (one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter) but this doesn't change the fact of what Iran is doing. Let's not forget that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has threatened to "Wipe Israel off the map"! Iran also aids and abets the Shia insurgency in Iraq. Iran doesn't have much in the way of friends around the world due to their belligerent stance toward their neighbours.

Iran is a signatory to the nuclear NPT. They have agreed they won't pursue nuclear weapons. They continue to deny that they are, fair enough. But they haven't really supplied an explanation for why they need the technologies they're pursuing, nor will they give full compliance with internationa agencies who could verify their claims. The world community seems concerned enough that this is an issue worth frequent discussion in the UN.

I happen to believe that NOBODY should have nuclear weapons so I'm against ANY nascent capabilities, whoever they belong to. I believe that nuclear release should be a crime but, with the permanent members of the security council also being the declared nuclear states who retain a right to first strike, will it ever be considered as such? I doubt it! Furthermore, how do you enforce such a law? By nuking those who transgress? Nuclear proliferation is one of the great issues of our time and the world needs to do whatever is reasonably possible to prevent the expansion of nuclear weapons capabilities. Full stop! The world has moved from a situation of nuclear M.A.D. to one where nuclear war can be assymetrical. This makes nuclear war winnable which makes the nuclear option worth considering in the minds of those in posession of nuclear weapons. Do you think that the world would be safer if Iran had nuclear weapons?

As to the NATO statement that they should retain a first strike doctrine for those pursuing nuclear ambitions, well, this isn't really any surprise nor is it anything new. A large part of nuclear strategy is deterrence. Yes it IS ironic that you might use nuclear weapons to prevent nuclear weapons! I also fear that the enactment of such a first strike policy would legitimise the use of nuclear weapons. But really nothing really changed upon release of this statement. It was more a rattle of the sabre.....

Are you comfortable with a nuclear armed Iran? Remember, we've seen this before, haven't we Kim Jong-il?
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
00:00 / 15.02.08
Another interesting point:

Iran is entitled to 10% of the output of the French Eurodif enrichment plant through their own investment in the plant. Iran's legitimate right (an it IS legitimate) to access to material to run nuclear power plants does not necessitate building their own enrichment plants.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:54 / 15.02.08
Hmmm, what nuclear attack was it that Kim Jong-Il started?

I appreciate that you've said you don't think anyone should have nuclear weapons but to me it does seem somewhat that you're more against new countries joining the club rather than the existing club. Most of your points about why it would be bad for Iran to have the bomb could be used exactly against the United States, especially in regards to their support of Israel. If you believe Israel is an evil country that wants to wipe you out, doesn't it make sense that you'd want to get nuclear weapons to protect yourself, even if Israel has no intention?
 
 
The Idol Rich
08:06 / 15.02.08
Clearly, given statements from NATO and the US, the west is more likely to attack a nuclear capable Iran, even where that capability is nascent. The US, NATO and Israel have only talked of attacking Iran since Iran started developing technologies that may lead them to a nuclear weapons capability.

Shouldn’t that be “especially when the capability is nascent”? My point being that if a country has a full nuclear capability other countries are unlikely to risk an attack on it because it might use nuclear weapons in its defence. The US and their allies are talking about attacking Iran to prevent the situation arising where Iran is effectively invulnerable. Isn’t this what you’re acknowledging here?

Remember, we've seen this before, haven't we Kim Jong-il?

From the “Axis of Evil” countries Iraq (no nuclear weapons) has been invaded, North Korea (nuclear weapons) has not; as the third member I can guess what conclusions Iran might sensibly draw from that.
 
  

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