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Syria, Iran: Back on the Agenda?

 
  

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Not Here Still
19:41 / 11.01.05
Here we go again.

I've suggested that Syria was going to cop it before and nothing has come of it, but I do have a bad feeling about the current tensions between America/ the Iraqi provisional government and Syria and Iran. News has been slipping out - though not getting too much attention - that the US is getting annoyed with Iraq's neighbouring states...

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- An Iraqi militant suspected of involvement in beheadings and other bloody attacks told Iraqi authorities that his group has links with Iran and Syria, according to a tape aired Friday by an Arabic TV station funded by the U.S. government.

Moayad Ahmed Yasseen, leader of Jaish Muhammad, which is Arabic for Muhammad's Army, was captured nearly two months ago in Fallujah, the former guerrilla stronghold west of Baghdad.


In a Reuters roundup, this sentence caught my eye: Police chief Ghalib al-Jazairi said one man in detention had confessed to attending a guerrilla training camp in Syria. Iraq accuses Syrian intelligence of aiding former Saddam loyalists and Islamist groups in Iraq. Another man had been arrested who had filmed the scene before and after the bombing.

People are confessing to connections with Syria and Iran when arrested. %As we all know, such confessions should obviously be believed fully - because torture is not being used, in any way shape or form in Iraq and the US has no interest in furtehr warmongering%

Whether or not such confessions are true, the heat is certainly being turned up on Syria and Iran.

So what do you think will happen next?
 
 
lekvar
21:25 / 11.01.05
A few months ago I would have bet that this was the opening act of Operation: Kick Everyone's Ass, but given the general instability of the administation right now I would guess that this will be used to pressure Syria and Iran into playing nice for a while, the same pressure that Lybia succumbed to recently.

G.W. and Friends are themselves feeling the pinch right now, defending Rumsfeld from fellow Republicans, filling cabinet positions, trying to squeeze tax and Social Security past the House and Senate. G.W. can't afford for the Middle East to get too messy any time soon, and, barring total victory, will be trying to keep it out of the news so he can push his domestic policy.

I think this is the administration's way of putting the Middle East on notice, telling Iraq's neighbors that they'd better not try anything, because the evidence has already been planted.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:03 / 12.01.05
hell, we don't have enough soldiers to invade ANOTHER country, stretched as thin as we are now, even if we wanted to.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
21:24 / 12.01.05
Aljazeera.com 1/12/2005
U.S. threatens to strike Syria
Hard liners in the Bush Administration are considering launching strikes against Syria’s borders with Iraq in an effort to beef up security ahead of Iraq's January elections, U.S. administration officials said.

...

Hopefully, this is just brinkmanship.
 
 
Baz Auckland
18:10 / 14.01.05
I'm sure that if everything in Iraq had gone as they had planned (i.e. welcomed with cheers, no fighting, etc.),they would be seriously gunning for Syria right now, if not already on the road to Damascus... giving the pit that Iraq turned into, thankfully it doesn't look like a possibility anymore.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:21 / 16.01.05
Agreed. I can't really see them going anywhere near this. The second Bush term will be more about turning the USA into an only borderline habitable disaster area than the last one was, so 'for'n ter-tree' will probably get a pass.
 
 
Not Here Still
19:21 / 16.01.05
I'd like to think you were right, but there are a couple of things which make me uneasy about all this.

I'm currently reading Plan of Attack, the Bob Woodward book on the run-up to Iraq, and he talks about how there was a plan to make a series of sabre rattling noises - but not follow them with action - for several months, if not years, before the war started. Very much like the noises being made now - see the Al Jazeera story inchocolate posts above.

Also, from reading that, and watching the Power of Nightmares (being repeated this week on BBC 2 in Britain, kids - watch it!) and from reading what people like Wolfowitz themselves say, there are two very clear thinbs about the neo-cons and their agenda.

Firstly, they have a set agenda and group of countries to
tackle, which they have hit on years in advance. Syria is very much on this list.

Secondly - and more importantly - they don't care about the intelligence, the figures, the facts from the ground as regards wars - they just care about their agenda.

There's a real possibility that, in the coming months, teh elections will be held in Iraq, whether or not they prove a success they will be hailed as one, and the coalitionm wikll just hightail it out of there leaving a holding force and a terrible mess behind them. A few months to recuperate and to allow media furores to die down, and then they're off to Bash Assad.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:19 / 17.01.05
And now, according to Seymour Hersh, there are US Special Forces spotting out targets in Iran. Yay!
 
 
w1rebaby
08:34 / 17.01.05
Bugger, you beat me to it. Hersh isn't saying that this is pre-invasion stuff, rather that it centres around a limited strike against the nuclear infrastructure (though he does mention that they have been updating full invasion plans - this I understand takes place regularly anyway):

The immediate goals of the attacks would be to destroy, or at least temporarily derail, Iran’s ability to go nuclear. But there are other, equally purposeful, motives at work. The government consultant told me that the hawks in the Pentagon, in private discussions, have been urging a limited attack on Iran because they believe it could lead to a toppling of the religious leadership... Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz share that belief, he said.

which sounds like the sort of insane ideological conviction we've come to expect, really, and others apparently agree:

“The idea that an American attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities would produce a popular uprising is extremely illinformed,” said Flynt Leverett, a Middle East scholar who worked on the National Security Council in the Bush Administration. “You have to understand that the nuclear ambition in Iran is supported across the political spectrum, and Iranians will perceive attacks on these sites as attacks on their ambitions to be a major regional player and a modern nation that’s technologically sophisticated.” Leverett, who is now a senior fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, at the Brookings Institution, warned that an American attack, if it takes place, “will produce an Iranian backlash against the United States and a rallying around the regime.”

It should also be noted that the political climate, internal and external, is not nearly so favourable to this sort of hawkish activity as previously. It could still happen though, particularly with a few manufactured or provoked incidents.
 
 
w1rebaby
08:47 / 17.01.05
I think the most important thing to note from this story - it's not terrrribly surprising that the US is currently aggressively investigating methods of attacking Iranian nuclear targets - is its message about the downgrading of the CIA, who have proved a bit awkward and reality-based and are a little bit limited by law, and the movement of control over black ops to groups unaccountable to Congress et al.

The President’s decision enables Rumsfeld to run the operations off the books—free from legal restrictions imposed on the C.I.A. Under current law, all C.I.A. covert activities overseas must be authorized by a Presidential finding and reported to the Senate and House intelligence committees. (The laws were enacted after a series of scandals in the nineteen-seventies involving C.I.A. domestic spying and attempted assassinations of foreign leaders.) “The Pentagon doesn’t feel obligated to report any of this to Congress,” the former high-level intelligence official said. “They don’t even call it ‘covert ops’—it’s too close to the C.I.A. phrase. In their view, it’s ‘black reconnaissance.’ They’re not even going to tell the cincs”—the regional American military commanders-in-chief.

This is a strong theme in Hersh's book Chain Of Command, too.
 
 
_Boboss
09:15 / 17.01.05
isn't iran's longe-range ballistic capability such that they're effectively invulnerable now though? just in terms of being able to hit israeli nuclear facilities and US bases in iraq? seems that yr desert fox-style limited aerial bombardment would very very easily trigger the kind of middle-eastern bloodbath that even yr republican voter-base might not get too horny for.

still, as said above, a couple of engineered 'incidents' to prove just how eeeeevil those iranians are...
 
 
sleazenation
12:44 / 17.01.05
The BBC report on Hersh's article here is almost amusing -

The article has already drawn fire from the White House: the communications director, Dan Bartlett, called it "riddled with inaccuracies".

"I don't believe that some of the conclusions he's drawing are based on fact," Mr Bartlett added.

It strikes me as the pot calling the kettle black to an almost hilarious degree to have someone at the White House criticise anyone for drawing conclusion that are not based on fact.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:49 / 17.01.05
I'm not sure ... or at least, it's famously hard to tell how advanced a nation's WMD programmes are, but they don't seem to be. Further, wouldn't a nuclear strike either on US bases or Israel be suicide - the risk of Israel launching its serious and well-established nuclear arsenal being just too great?
 
 
_Boboss
13:15 / 17.01.05
well that's kind of my point - any action against iran could go M.A.D pretty quickly
 
 
_Boboss
13:17 / 17.01.05
sorry - not wishing to suggest iran has got workable nukes - just that their conventional capacity in terms of range and targeting could be enough to make a mess of israel and/or iraq if they picked their shots.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:36 / 18.01.05
interestingly, a CNN article on this points out that the White House doesn't really deny everything in Hersh's piece, just some parts of it.
 
 
sleazenation
11:24 / 19.01.05
A good thing to remember in life and in politics is to listen carefully to what is being denied...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:41 / 19.01.05
This article scares me.
 
 
Chiropteran
14:22 / 19.01.05
(From the above-linked article article that scares VM, among others)

[Iranian foreign ministry spokesman] Asefi, moreover, noted that one of the U.S. aims is "not to help and encourage Europe to peacefully settle some disagreements through diplomacy and talks, but to disrupt the Iran-EU nuclear talks by pretending they are unsuccessful." [emphasis added]

Sounds like someone's been paying close attention to Bush administration tactics. And, it's good to hear them addressed directly and explicitly (whatever else one might say about Iran, or the state of teh Iran-EU talks).

"Reality-based," indeed.

~L
 
 
Not Here Still
15:12 / 19.01.05
It's another of those spikes...

The Hersh story 'denial' from the Pentagon is a great non-denial denial; saying the piece is riddled with inaccuracies but not that its central point is inaccurate.

Sorry to keep on banging on about Bob Woodward, but he notes plenty of these denials were made before Iraq: George Bush saying 'I don't have a war plan for Iraq on my desk right now', an entirely true statement as the War Plan was being drawn up by Rumsfeld and Franks as Bush spoke, and although he knew all about it and had already attended meetings about what should be done, there wasn't anything actually physically on his desk - so he was telling the truth, kinda...

[rot]Seymour Hersh's Chain of Command is next on the list to get; I've just read (for the first time) his piece on My Lai 4 in John Pilger's Tell Me No Lies anthology. Next payday, it's Seymour for me - is it out in paperback yet?[/rot]
 
 
bjacques
15:13 / 19.01.05
I take that more as an encouraging sign. Short version is the US has unfinished business in Iran and Afghanistan and are extremely unlikely to get outsider support for further adventures, no matter how much Condoleeza Rice sweet-talks Germany and France.

Iran probably *is* working on an atomic bomb--why should Israel have them all?--but that's beside the point. Iran is already used to US meddling in its politics before and after the revolution. "Black reconnaissance" is a stupid idea; if Iran aren't meddling in Iraq--why, when the Shiites will likely win the elections?--this is a license to start.

For the US to have Israel wipe out a suspect Iranian nuclear site (as happened in Iraq in 1980) would be really stupid, as Iran might retaliate and damn the consequences, and everyone would know the US had put Israel up to it.

Nobody knows what Syria's up to.

I'm glad al-Jazeera's English language site is working better these days.
 
 
Not Here Still
15:23 / 19.01.05
Should have put this in the above post - read it just after I'd posted though - that's the problem with running two open windows.

Good polemical article with plenty of links throughout the piece:

The Bushies are going to continue their global rampage, and this news is hardly shocking. What makes Hersh's revelations so sensationally newsworthy is that he's not reporting on a plan that's in the works, but one that is being carried out even as we learn of it.

He also mentions he expected Syria to be next...

By the way, at the risk of ending up in Private Eye, 'outposts of tyranny' are the new 'axis of evil':

Condaleeza Rice: "To be sure, in our world, there remain outposts of tyranny, and America stands with oppressed people on every continent, in Cuba, and Burma, and North Korea, and Iran, and Belarus, and Zimbabwe."

And, say, Kyrgystan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan? No, cos they're friendly outposts....
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:13 / 19.01.05
I don't know. While I agree that the above is worrying, I think I'd be a lot more alarmed if there wasn't something like this out in the public domain - what else after all, was the Bush government ever going to be doing ? And while, ok, the neo-cons could just be getting started, there's been none of the really inflammatory rhetoric ( links with Bin Laden, regime change necessary, 'most evil man in history' etc, ) that led up to the Iraq war involved in this so far; it doesn't as yet feel like a conflict that's being 'sold' to the US public.

That could change obviously, but at the moment I'd still think the worst case scenario would be a series of 'surgical' air strikes against suspected Iranian nuclear facilities by the US or, more likely, Israel, followed by a vocal protest from the Iranian government but not an awful lot else, because how else, realistically, are they going to respond ? Anything more forceful would put the basic fabric of Iranian society at risk, so while none of that's pleasant, I can't see a full-scale ground war developing here, at least in the short term, although, pretty clearly, the kind of US bullishness overt in that strategy is only storing up problems for the region's, and also America's, and, well everyone else's future.

On the other hand, if it turns out I'm wrong about this and Bush does decide to go all 'shock'n'awe' on the Iranians, Syrians and whoever else he feels like in the next four years, what does anyone think will be the UK's reaction, assuming, as seems virtually certain, that Blair will still be holding, if somewhat more tenuously than he's used to, the 'reins of power' at the time ?

( Sorry about all the quote marks incidentally - it's just in the context, they're so *hard* to resist... )
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:14 / 19.01.05
I don't know. While I agree that the above is worrying, I think I'd be a lot more alarmed if there wasn't something like this out in the public domain - what else after all, was the Bush government ever going to be doing ? And while, ok, the neo-cons could just be getting started, there's been none of the really inflammatory rhetoric ( links with Bin Laden, regime change necessary, 'most evil man in history' etc, ) that led up to the Iraq war involved in this so far; it doesn't as yet feel like a conflict that's being 'sold' to the US public.

That could change obviously, but at the moment I'd still think the worst case scenario would be a series of 'surgical' air strikes against suspected Iranian nuclear facilities by the US or, more likely, Israel, followed by a vocal protest from the Iranian government but not an awful lot else, because how else, realistically, are they going to respond ? Anything more forceful would put the basic fabric of Iranian society at risk, so while none of that's pleasant, I can't see a full-scale ground war developing here, at least in the short term, although, pretty clearly, the kind of US bullishness overt in that strategy is only storing up problems for the region's, and also America's, and, well everyone else's future.

On the other hand, if it turns out I'm wrong about this and Bush does decide to go all 'shock'n'awe' on the Iranians, Syrians and whoever else he feels like in the next four years, what does anyone think will be the UK's reaction, assuming, as seems virtually certain, that Blair will still be holding, if somewhat more tenuously than he's used to, the 'reins of power' at the time ?

( Sorry about all the quote marks incidentally - it's just in the context, they're so *hard* to resist... )
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
01:32 / 20.01.05
BBC News. 19 January, 2005

At her Senate confirmation hearings, Condoleezza Rice stressed US concerns about Syria's role in Lebanon and Iraq and its alleged links to terrorism.

Al-Jazeerah, January 16, 2005

The Jerusalem Post cited top Israeli diplomatic officials as saying that Israel asked the United States to pressure Russia to scrap the arms deal claiming that the missiles could be smuggled into Iraq and endanger the U.S. forces there. The Post also said that Syrian President Bashar Assad will sign the deal during his scheduled visit to Moscow from 24 to 28 January.

While as an old ally Syria received Soviet-era Scud ground-to-ground missiles. But media reports suggested Moscow was ready to sell a vastly updated version of the Scud, the Iskander or even SS-26 missile. It is capable of pinpoint strikes against targets within a 300 kilometer range, which would include most Israeli territory including its atomic reactor Dimona.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
07:03 / 20.01.05
Well yeah, but what would Moscow conceivably have to gain from this ? Or Syria for that matter ? Given the present mood of the Israeli government, an attack on one of their nuclear reactors ( in effect an atomic strike if it's aimed properly, ) wouldn't so much precipitate the end of the world, at least in the short term, as the absolute end of the 'real' Bible Belt as a habitable area for the next x hundred thousand years, as the hopefully, presumably, relatively sane people in charge there must realise. As even Dubya would do really, if he was put in that position - the minute atomic weapons are brought into play, everyone, historically, has tended to back off a bit. The alternative being far too horrific to contemplete, even by Rummy, fingers crossed.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:20 / 21.01.05
This is UNBELIVEABLE.

Are they just gonna START WARS WHENEVER THEY WANT for NO REAL REASON!?!??? Yep, seems like it...my God, this is fucked up...

>> White House - AP

U.S. Views Iran As Potential Trouble Spot
48 minutes ago White House - AP

By GEORGE GEDDA, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) refuses to rule out war with Iran. Iranian President Mohammad Khatami (news - web sites) says his country is ready to defend itself against a U.S. attack. The United States is pushing for a peaceful solution to its nuclear impasse with Iran but, with mistrust on both sides running high, encouraging signs are hard to find.

"You look around the world at potential trouble spots, Iran is right at the top of the list," Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said Thursday in an interview with radio host Don Imus, hours before being sworn in to a second term.

[I guess it's on the list because we say it is, and for not much other reason than that.] - Hunter

Asked hypothetically whether the United States would yield to Israel in a scenario in which an attack against Tehran was being considered, he said, "One of the concerns people have is that Israel might do it without being asked, that if in fact the Israelis became convinced the Iranians had a significant nuclear capability, given the fact that Iran has a stated policy that their objective is the destruction of the state of Israel, that the Israelis might well decide to act first and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterward."

"We don't want a war in the Middle East if we can avoid it," Cheney quickly added, "and certainly, in the case of the Iranian situation, I think everybody would best suited by, and or best treated or dealt with, if we could deal with it diplomatically."

[suuure you don't want a war in the Middle East, Dick Cheney...suuuure]

>> On Monday, Bush reaffirmed his support for a diplomatic settlement of Iran's nuclear program but said, "I will never take any option off the table."

[And even Democrat extraordinaire JOE BIDEN gets in on the 'anti-Iran' action! Have we learned NOTHING from Iraq?? Joe Biden, who so beautifully grilled Condoleeza and Gonalez in this past week.

>> Perhaps the most pessimistic comment of all this week came from Sen. Joseph Biden (news, bio, voting record), D-Del.

>> "There may be nothing we can do to persuade Iran not to develop weapons of mass destruction," Biden said during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee confirmation hearing for Secretary of State-designate Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites).
 
 
_Boboss
12:46 / 21.01.05
good luck to iran with their nukes then. it could be that getting MAD is the only way to keep the peace these days.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
13:55 / 08.02.05
This paragraph in the Reuters article doesn't make any sense to me. I thought the Iranian constitution was based on the French republic?
Reuters Feb 8, 2005

In a move which may ease Western fears that Iraq will turn into a new Iran, a spokesman for the country's top Shi'ite cleric Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani denied Sistani was demanding Iraq's new constitution be based solely on sharia Islamic law.

The Guardian. January 27, 2005

The Israeli defence minister, Shaul Mofaz, warned yesterday that Iran will reach "the point of no return" within the next 12 months in its covert attempt to secure a nuclear weapons capability.

Tehran denies pursuing a nuclear weapons programme.


Independent 08 February 2005

As it accuses Iran of trying to develop nuclear weapons, America is preparing to upgrade and renew parts of its own ageing nuclear arsenal. Critics believe the upgrades could lead the US to breach the treaty banning the testing of nuclear weapons.

...

as Gumbitch said, Mutually Assured Destruction anyone?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
13:26 / 09.02.05
Well a nuclear arms race and ensuing Cold War II : Return of the Cold War, would suit the Straussian neo-con agenda right down to the basement.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
14:38 / 10.02.05
other Iran threads.
Iran Reform movement.

Iran next?

Will This End in Iraq?

...

June 12, 2003. The Case Against Iran www.cdi.org

Iran’s Nuclear Program

Iran’s nuclear program began under the Shah in 1974, but was abruptly suspended following the Islamic revolution in 1978-79. The Shah also conducted research into the production of fissile material, but these efforts were suspended during the revolution and the Iran-Iraq war. It was not until 1984 that Ayatollah Khomeini revived Iran’s nuclear weapons program. There are some indications that he did so reluctantly, viewing these weapons as amoral. In 1987 and 1988, the reactor sites at Bushehr I and II were damaged by Iraqi air strikes, and progress was again arrested.


Throughout the last decade, U.S. and European analysts have suspected that the Iranian nuclear program may have been reconstituted. With Russian and Chinese help, Iran began to develop a civilian nuclear infrastructure that included a 1,000 megawatt nuclear reactor (not yet complete) at Bushehr, on the Persian Gulf. However, in August 2002, the disclosure of two additional nuclear facilities in Arak and Natanz suggested that Iran’s nuclear infrastructure could be configured to produce fissile material for nuclear weapons. The Arak facility was identified as a plant for the production of heavy water and the Natanz facility, once complete, may be for uranium enrichment. Following the public disclosure of the facilities, chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Mohammed ElBaradei, visited the Natanz site at the invitation of Tehran.


...


Rice is continuing to stir things up. How is the EU/USA good cop/ bad cop routine going to pan out?
Shell marking down it's known oil reserves may also have an effect.
Peak oil capacity, anyone?
 
 
grant
15:10 / 10.02.05
Not exactly "Iran," but definitely "New Cold War" and "Possible Next Step" material from North Korea.

"We cannot spend another four years as we did in the past four years, and there is no need for us to repeat what we did in those years....

"We have wanted the six-party talks but we are compelled to suspend our participation in the talks for an indefinite period till we have recognized that there is justification for us to attend the talks and there are ample conditions and atmosphere to expect positive results from the talks.

"The U.S. disclosed its attempt to topple the political system in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) at any cost, threatening it with a nuclear stick. This compels us to take a measure to bolster its nuclear weapons arsenal in order to protect the ideology, system, freedom and democracy chosen by the people in the DPRK."


And furthermore:

"We had already taken the resolute action of pulling out of the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) and have manufactured nukes to cope with the Bush administration's evermore undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

"Its nuclear weapons will remain nuclear deterrent for self-defence under any circumstances."



(emphasis mine)

So. Cards on the table.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
22:33 / 16.02.05
www.aljazeera.com 16/02/05


Iran and Syria have announced Wednesday that they would both form a 'common front' to face with challenges and threats.

The two countries are currently caught up in 'diplomatic rows' with the United States.


...

Nice understated article.
 
 
Baz Auckland
07:27 / 17.02.05
Does anyone have any opinions of the asassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri? He was anti-Syria in his policies, putting obvious blame on who was behind the killing?

...and with anti-Syria rallies resulting...

The U.S. representative at the funeral, Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, called again on Syria to withdraw its troops from Lebanon — a further spike in U.S.-Syrian tensions a day after the U.S. recalled its ambassador from Damascus

...or conspiracy hat on, this is the start of what will end with the U.S. and friends returning to liberate Lebanon?
 
 
doozy floop
11:34 / 17.02.05
Forgive me for being dim, as I'm not so well up on all this business, but why did the US withdraw their ambassador to Syria? I know there's a lot going on in political terms but as I understood it, Syria have been strongly denying any involvement with the death of Hariri, and so what's the American reasoning?
 
  

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