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The Theory and Practise of Compassion

 
  

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LVX23
05:12 / 15.01.05
Well of course!

We're all thoughts in the mind of G_d. Some are dark and transient, others bright and enduring, shooting stars and grinding dirges. It's all play, dig? The child of the aeon with colored spheres, harlequin juggling. Good, bad, pleasure, pain - these are dense vibrations. Compassion is the very awareness that it's all Love, baby. If you have the capacity to bring compassion into your life, then you can help raise the vibration of the species. The lout's will lessen in time. Compassion inherently requires a degree of timelessness, unity, and an eye towards both the Now and the later innings of the human game.
 
 
Unconditional Love
00:19 / 16.01.05
apologies for the trite advice, sometimes the realities of experience reduce all words and human meanings to nothing.
 
 
Aertho
01:36 / 16.01.05
Ah, but beyond meaninglessness is sex.
 
 
---
10:18 / 16.01.05
Makkitotosimew :

A couple of things that could be of help :

A) People who do bad and evil things and show no remorse do so because they probably don't have anything like the type of compassionate awareness and/or understanding that a person who wouldn't do those things has. They simply don't understand in the same way at all. Their lack of compassion and understanding stems from ignorance of the way things actually are, (which even though the compassionate person might only know hirself to a limited exent, they know a lot more than the person doing the bad things to others.) or a lack of skillful methods available to them that would eradicate the unskillful methods and replace them with a better and more skillful way of doing things.

B) By not striving to forgive these people what you are actaully doing is attaching yourself more and more to Maya through the unskillful hindrance of ill will that you have for these people, and the more you store up this ill will for them instead of working on ways to get rid of it by forgiveness, compassion and understanding, the more you end up straying from your own path.
 
 
farseer /pokes out an i
20:51 / 16.01.05
Makkitotosimew:
Oh, so now you're blaming me for all the nasty behavior? ..[snip].. Ahh finally, justification for the hidden Bodhisattva! YAY! LOL. Whew! I'm glad you took this the way I meant it, as LVX23 so poetically re-iterated.

To be honest, I don't think I am anywhere near being any kind of "giver of lessons". I am not really sure who is. We all are, it just depends on our perspectives. Some important lessons I've picked up on thus far in life have been from folks who wouldn't self-identify as lesson-givers, =)

Why anyone would want to be deliberately cruel to another just baffles me. Thus far I've observed it's carelessness & lack of self-awareness, mostly, or sometimes it's just that it seemed like a good idea at the time . Of course they are the sort who, for whatever reasons seem to enjoy doling it out... Of those I usually hypothesis that it's derived from some pleasure at it not being them who's getting the shaft, but someone they percieve as being seperate from them...

But, will the world do it with love? make joy!


Chad : Battle Mode: Ah, but beyond meaninglessness is sex. LOL, *shrug*, this struck me as particularly funny. Perhaps you should start your own sex advice thread, ;-)
 
 
Papess
21:40 / 16.01.05
Whereas, I don't agree that we are all capable of giving the lessons that are of necessity to another for the purposes of enlightenment, it is still taken upon some individuals to dole these lessons out and revel afterward in how they took someone down a notch. Regardless of how I feel, this does occur. Personally, I feel that unless someone is directly attacking me or a loved one, my only duty towards "giving lessons", would be to just give them to myself. What kind of an ego thinks it is their responsibility to give anyone else lessons, especially by malicious means?

So, what I am concluding, thus far, is that all action can be interpretted as compassion. Which would be fine, except then, why bother with "right action" and mercy if one could just as easily be as cruel as they choose to be and it would still be justified? Does karma play into this? At some level are all actions self-motivated?

The futility I am experiencing in regard to compassion and the manifestion of compassion is frustrating. I still certainly think that one's intent is a huge factor in choosing appropriate action. But what is stop anyone from being cruel and continuing the seemingly endless cycle of samsara?

There is a story of Avalokatishvara and how he finally emptied samsara (and therefore, the suffering) and the very next moment, it was full again. I am begining to feel like this and wondering, what's the point of practising compassionate acts? This story says to me that everything is as it is, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

The big problem with giving lessons to others, IMO, is that one misses the very person they can change, themself, and thus, no one gets anywhere. The recipient of the lesson is demoralized at best, and the giver has done nothing but avoid their own egotistical behavior. Nothing changes.

You see, there is a distinct difference in people. As much as the more absolute theory of I am you, you are me is true, it is not our experience, and it is experience that causes suffering and the need for compassion.

In the argument that "it is all in how one percieves that experience", one could very well argue back: "Well, if I come to your house and burn it down, then claim I did it to show you the meaninglessness of possessions, how would you react?" Would you be able to thank me? Or would you feel violated and angry that someone destroyed years of hard work you had done to aquire these things?

Quite simply, if we are all the "one", why don't we treat ourself better?
 
 
illmatic
13:08 / 17.01.05
what's the point of practising compassionate acts?

I think the point is that it makes you feel better. And it does. I've heard it refered to as a kind of "clever selfishness". Rests on the idea that compassionate action makes one feel better, so the benefit is both to you and the receiver. Is this true - test, experiment, verify.

I was interested in the idea you brought up, May, of how to be compassionate to repulsive, harmful people. Had a look at some of my Buddhist books, and the best I could come up with is it all relates to impermenance. Whatever qualities that person is manifesting are temporal only, and not part of that persons nature ('cos we don't have any essential nature according to Buddhism ). The person who is acting evily now, may repent in the future, and choose to act differently. You're choosing to break the cycle that perpetuates their action, at least in yourself. What's the use value of holding onto our hatred for them? All is does is makes us feel shit. I think the thing is not to get mixed up between feelings of compassion for someone and the notion of acceptance of, or tolerance for their actions.

Furthermore, we all have the potential to act in this negative and destructive way. It's simply a set of circumstances that have made a person act like this, and perhaps we'd go the same way to if subject to the same set of events("there but for the grace of God, er, Buddha..."). I think having the breadth of vision to see the parity between oneself and someone one would otherwise be busy condemning is really instructive.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:14 / 17.01.05
we dont treat ourselves better, because somewhere deep down some part of us wants it all to end, and me hurting another or another hurting me is an expression of that, the quick release to this state of being is death, self destruction and general destruction are as attractive as a creative loving world. if i am suffering, you are damn well gonna suffer with me. its a futile approach to life, but ive lived it and occasionally find myself there again, in the meantime i just try to make my life meaningful to me, until i or somebody else sweeps away the house of cards i am playing with.

i sometimes think i am living in a world that says, you are not allowed to dream.
 
 
Seth
13:49 / 17.01.05
Comes from "compassus" (sympathy) which itself derives from "compati" (to feel pity) - this is a compound of "com" (together) and "pati" (suffer). Thus we have "to suffer together". Struck me, though, that pity and compassion are worlds apart but close at the same time.

Quoted from an email sent to me by Photine.
 
 
Seth
14:04 / 17.01.05
Do you realize
That you have the most beautiful face?
Do you realize
We're floating in space?
Do you realize
That happiness makes you cry?
Do you realize
That everyone you know someday will die?

And instead of saying all of your good-byes
Let them know you realize that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realize the sun doesn't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round


The Flaming Lips, Do Ya Realise?


I knew that someday I was gonna die
And I knew before I died
Two things would happen to me
That number one: I would regret my entire life
And number two: I would want to live my life over again


President Lyndon B. Johnson talking after his exit from the Whitehouse (1968/1969)


“…Most psychotherapy patients (and probably most non-patients, since neurosis is the norm rather than the exception) have a problem, whether they are young or old, in facing the reality of death squarely and clearly… If we can live with the knowledge that death is our constant companion, travelling on our “left shoulder,” then death can become in the words of Don Juan, our “ally,” still fearsome but continually a source of wise counsel. With death’s counsel, the constant awareness of the limit of our time to live and love, we can always be guided to make the best use of our time and live life to the fullest. But if we are unwilling to fully face the fearsome presence of death on our left shoulder, we deprive ourselves of its counsel and cannot possibly live or love with clarity. When we shy away from death, the ever changing nature of things, we inevitably shy away from life.”

M. Scott Peck, The Road Less Travelled.


"Everybody thinks about death sometimes... You ain't gonna be here forever. You gotta die someday -- that's gonna happen for sure. And whether you come back, I don't know. Some people say you come back; I dunno. I don't know nobody who's come back... And whether there's another world, we don't know. So just live for as long as you can, enjoy life, enjoy the pretty women in the world. Just live and let live. And love people. There's some good in everybody."

John Lee Hooker, Rolling Stone (May 28, 1998)


"The Way of the Samurai is found in death. Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day when one's body and mind are at peace, we should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears and swords, carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightening, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand foot cliffs, dying of disease, or committing sepuku at the death of one's master. And every day without fail, one should consider himself as dead. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai."

Hagakure: The Way of the Samurai, read aloud by Forrest Whitaker in Ghost Dog


In your life you’re going to experience joy, growth and love. You’ll also experience suffering, decay and death. Everything will change, probably faster than you would wish for.

That effects everyone you know, too. People you’re used to having around won’t be there one day, and you rarely get to know when and how their presence will leave your life. Your belief systems may not even slightly prepare you for the sense of loss and grief you’ll feel.

But you can prepare yourself to avoid the remorse and guilt experienced by allowing a loved one to pass without addressing significant issues in your relationship. One of the things that was drummed into me time and again in my youth was never let the sun go down on your anger. You never know when you’ll last see someone you love, and so you need to act in a way that is loving at all times.

I’ve often found myself using my own version of the meditation quoted from Hagakure, and always found it directional rather than morbid. I guess it’s part of that whole shamanic complex of ideas that I found within myself - wanting to hang around graveyards and the like, my own initiation experience of being torn apart and remade, symbolically dying and being created anew - I found myself naturally considering my death before I realised the positive effects the practise had on me. It’s the practise of the awareness of death that makes us more aware of the limited time that we have to live and be happy, and the awareness can be extended to include everyone you know, because we’re all in the same boat. Which is why I consider meditation on death to be a technique that fosters greater compassion in us, both directed towards ourselves and other people.

There’s another technique you can use, which is writing your own eulogy. Fast forward to the end of your life and consider what you would like written about you by your family and friends, or what you would like your extended reputation to be.

Don’t really care if you think that’s all a cliché. It’s pretty universal, I reckon.
 
 
Papess
19:11 / 17.01.05
I think the point is that it makes you feel better. And it does. I've heard it refered to as a kind of "clever selfishness". Rests on the idea that compassionate action makes one feel better, so the benefit is both to you and the receiver. Is this true - test, experiment, verify.

I do feel like this is a bit of a cop out argument because, people generally do "good things" out of fear of reprecussion. Here on Barbelith it is forbidden to mention the falsness that is called "Karma", so it is about the best argument one could conceivably come up with. But for certain, it will make one feel quite good. Gennerally yes, I have to agree, Illmatic....until of course, we start talking about the "repulsive, harmful people".

I was interested in the idea you brought up, May, of how to be compassionate to repulsive, harmful people. Had a look at some of my Buddhist books, and the best I could come up with is it all relates to impermenance. Whatever qualities that person is manifesting are temporal only, and not part of that persons nature

Hmm, fair enough. I do work on a philosophy that if one considers themself to have divine nature or even have buddha nature, then one has to accept that so does everyone else. The difficulty occurs because everyone seems to be at a different points of realization, of their nature, (buddha nature being empty, of course). I think if it was understood by everyone, no one would bother with cruelty.

However, to use the Chinese Army and Tibetan monks as an example, what good did the realization of impermanence do for Tibet? Or for that matter, what good did those Tibetan Lamas' realisation of impermanence do for the Chinese army? I think I am trying to figure out how one can be compassionate to say, the Chinese army (or cruelty in general) and still avoid the (metaphorical) slaughter and imprisonment. Or is this the reward of having great compassion, other than that good feeling one gets from it?

Okay, that sounds quite acidic in tone, but I am trying to point out some of the "undisbuted" reasoning for compassion, or at least put compassion in the proper light. If we just argue that it makes us feel good, then there are lots of acts of cruelty that make lots of people feel good...Like strapping bombs to themselves in the name of their own ideal and blowing up a bus full of people who disagree with them. Or how about, degrading and sexually assaulting P.O.W's and taking pictures as memoirs? Yes, we could argue that in both examples, those involved are paying for it now. However, same same in the compassion camp.

Fuck, I am cynical.
 
 
Unconditional Love
01:43 / 18.01.05
perhaps none of it really matters its all empty and without meaning, and compassion is just a behavioural tool for you to feel good and be good, for communities sake.

really perhaps it is the case.there is no fucking point, everything we are is a meaningless pile of shit, feastering and feeding on its self and everything else til theres nothing left to kill, without the consumption it becomes empty, no experience, and it dies. well that was that.
 
 
Unconditional Love
02:05 / 18.01.05
people will kill each other, i will die you will die, everyone i love will die, i will probably fuck people up as much as i will help them, so why fucking bother.

really its all going to rot so why doesnt it just fuck off and rot now and save me the trouble? why do i even bother ?

sprituality = escapist bullshit.

i feel like that sometimes.

is it the trying that counts, oh i can be very trying, or my intent of action, should i be more considerate of others, because there so fucking considerate of me, especially the oh so nice christians i know, compassion does work, and self sacrafice, but being that i want to survive in a world that does contain assholes ill limit it to those that understand and return the value. those that dont get what they give.

the idea of being compassionate to everyone just doesnt work for me, id love to dream it did, makkit reminded me that it doesnt, i can remember why now,being that open just invites hurt and power trippers, it didnt make me feel good, just weaker and weaker til everybody was carving my life for me, fuck being nice, you want me to be nice then be nice or fuck off.
 
 
LVX23
04:15 / 18.01.05
Well thanks, Mark, for a fine example of just exactly why the world needs more compassion. Would you rather live among people willing to take a chance and give without receiving, or among those too bitter and callous to care about anything beyond their own ends?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
09:27 / 18.01.05
Well Mark, I for one value your honesty in expressing your feelings - always harder to do than just making sweeping generalisations about "the world".

I just come across a paper by Peter J. Frost et al (pdf here) which examines the practice of compassion in terms of three interrelated elements:

noticing another’s suffering, feeling empathy for the other’s pain, and responding to the suffering in some way.

Noticing involves a process of becoming aware of another’s emotional state, and typically requires being open and attentive to emotional cues and to what is happening in one’s context.
Feeling for the other’s pain involves empathic concern or being able to understand the other person's attitude.
Responding indicates action that reaches beyond feeling and attempts to alleviate or overcome the other’s condition in some way.

In examining the practice of compassion in an interpersonal context, the authors identify six behavioral elements that are part of the process:

Making oneself physically available to another - Simply being present with someone who is suffering.
Making oneself psychologically available to another - Minimizing distractions and focusing on the person in pain, as well as being emotionally available to make an empathetic connection with someone.
Empathizing - Taking the perspective of the other and communicating understanding of their feelings/experience.
Inquiring Asking for information that will allow someone to understand and respond to the needs of another.
Listening without judgment- Builds cognitive and emotional data sources so a person wanting to help can understand the state of the other, and reserving judgment allows for noticing pain and the development of empathy.
Creating a holding space for pain - A "holding space" serves as an environment in which people have an opportunity deal with anxiety, express their pain, grieve and/or regroup.

I rather like this description of compassion as it focuses on the premise that compassion is an interpersonal process and requires a set of social skills.
 
 
illmatic
11:40 / 18.01.05
Good points all. I like that model also, good Google detective work by T the T as usual. Props to Mark for being honest like that, I'd be lying if I said I never felt like that myself.

M: people generally do "good things" out of fear of reprecussion

I agree, but I'd say that there's a different quality thse actions are spontanously when people are acting this way 'cos they want to and aren't working from fear. I'm teaching at the moment - when do I get the best response from the kids? When I've threatened and cajoled and nagged them, or when I've been skillful enough in my lessons to engage their natural curiousity and pleasure in doing tasks and being creative? It's the latter obviously, though it's a lot harder to bring about. I think your response - and Mark's actually - bring up a very important point, in that, if you want to engage in this stuff it shouldn't be a fucking dutyie. one more thing to beat yourself up about when you fail (I say "when" not"if" 'cos this is the sort of thing we'll all fail at, many, many times over). "Duties" and "I musts" ultimately breed resentment. It should come instead from the genuine conviction that it helps you in life and makes things better for you - and you only find that out by attempting it for yourself - that's why I put
"experiment, test, verify" above.

A lot of this puts me in mind of Wilhlem Reich again - he held that there is a primary part of this is open, trusting, warm etc. - which gets covered up and distorted by child-rearing practices, education, socialisation. Reich takes that leap of faith - we are "good", warm,
caring etc deep down. I can relate a lot to this because I often feel like some of my more "open" emotions are buried and there seems to be a lot of fear and tentativeness around their expression - Reich would say this is a product of the armouring process. He'd furthemore say that "acts of cruelty that make us feel good" are in fact a product of the distortion of this impulse, and don't grant us as deep and lasting satisfaction as the satisfaction of our primary needs - for Reich, the ultimate primary need was the expression of loving sexuality. Again, don't take my word for it, but does this chime with your experience? It does with mine. It relates tothe education process also - I think my students have a natural curiousity and desire to learn, which is stifled by all the negative associations they picked up in school.

However, to use the Chinese Army and Tibetan monks as an example, what good did the realization of impermanence do for Tibet? Or for that matter, what good did those Tibetan Lamas' realisation of impermanence do for the Chinese army?

I don't know if I can answer that. I think the Dalai Lama has criticised the Tibet of the past for being too insular, and said that this perhaps contributed to the invasion but beyond that I can't say. However, I can relate an experience I had. I met a Tibetan Buddhist monk when I was travelling who'd been tortured by the Chinese. I asked him how he felt towards them, and he said he felt sorry for them, not in a "pitying" way but he genuintely felt they were trapped in anger and frustration in a way that he wasn't. Even through the broken english, I could tell this was true and he wasn't holding onto any anger or resentment. Now, I have no idea if I could do that personally, but I do know that if you don't forgive those who wrong you at some stage, you fucking choke on it. He was an inspirational figure really.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:05 / 18.01.05
Anyone (in the UK) recall the brief flurry last year over Civitas author Patrick West and his monograph Conspicious Compassion? His basic argument was that "Conspicious Compassion" - is when people derive pleasure (and kudos) from publically expressing what they claim to be their concern for others - and that these expressions are little more than displays of self-indulgence.

West quotes Oscar Wilde's definition of a sentimentalist as ‘someone who wants the pleasure of an emotion without paying the price for it ’.

West says: "To say I care and to feel good about it costs nothing. And this is precisely the problem." His argument is that mawkish sentimentalism must be replaced with reason, reserve, and genuine action - think then act, rather than emote and feel better.

West's response to how his paper was received
 
 
LVX23
16:38 / 18.01.05
Well Mark, I for one value your honesty in expressing your feelings - always harder to do than just making sweeping generalisations about "the world".

I'll twist this a bit and suggest that it's always easier to act from self-interest and fear than from compassion.
 
 
Papess
19:16 / 18.01.05
Farseer: Some important lessons I've picked up on thus far in life have been from folks who wouldn't self-identify as lesson-givers, =)

Yes, that is my point. People who identify themself as a qualified "lesson-giver" and set out to give them, always come off to me, like this guy.

The arrogance.
 
 
Papess
19:22 / 18.01.05
Trouser: I rather like this description of compassion as it focuses on the premise that compassion is an interpersonal process and requires a set of social skills.

I like the model too. It has to start at an interpersonal level.
 
 
Papess
19:31 / 18.01.05
A lot of this puts me in mind of Wilhlem Reich again - he held that there is a primary part of this is open, trusting, warm etc. - which gets covered up and distorted by child-rearing practices, education, socialisation. Reich takes that leap of faith - we are "good", warm,

I am inclined to believe the same thing. However, in Buddhism, there is no primary state...:P So, to discuss the actualities, at some early point of one's corporeal exsistance, some cruel and/or oppressive incident befell us, and consequently became angry and internalized the anger, where it manifests as fear. This causes a point of conflict, internally. Emotionally, mentally and ultimately physically, as well. This theory initially assumes we are born pure of mind, heart and body, and we know the latter isn't true. (When exactly did I become so cynical? Oh yeah, see above.)

The thing I am finding interesting, in any case, is that both the anger and the compassion seem to be a learned response, whether by choice or circumstance. I guess that is the point of daily practice, to retrain the mind, (and thus, the heart and body), to behave in a peaceful yet, just manner.

Which, just now, has brought the question of impeccability to my mind. Seems appropriate that compassion and impeccability be integral to each other.


I met a Tibetan Buddhist monk when I was travelling who'd been tortured by the Chinese. I asked him how he felt towards them, and he said he felt sorry for them, not in a "pitying" way but he genuintely felt they were trapped in anger and frustration in a way that he wasn't. Even through the broken english, I could tell this was true and he wasn't holding onto any anger or resentment. Now, I have no idea if I could do that personally, but I do know that if you don't forgive those who wrong you at some stage, you fucking choke on it.

That has to be read again.

All I have to say is...At least The Chinese Army has a uniform.
 
 
Papess
20:26 / 18.01.05
Wolfangel/Mark: the idea of being compassionate to everyone just doesnt work for me, id love to dream it did, makkit reminded me that it doesnt, i can remember why now,being that open just invites hurt and power trippers, it didnt make me feel good, just weaker and weaker til everybody was carving my life for me, fuck being nice, you want me to be nice then be nice or fuck off.

Hmm, this is a dilemna I struggle with. When no matter what one does, it is never enough and the situation remains intolerable. Where do we draw the line? I don't believe we should have to martyr/sacrifice ourselves for another, but sometimes, it seems appropriate. More in dire circumstances, rather than inconvenient ones, I would think is more of a healthy approach. Or, in the case where one is a care-giver for a child. We have to be very select and precise about how we manifest our compassion. This is my concern. This is the wisdom I would like to get at, because, like probably everyone here, I have chosen unfavorably on at least more than one occasion. I guess I want a more efficent method of compassion. A method by which one can "pay the price" of acts of kindness, without being taxed up the arse. Je vous comprends, mon ami.

As they say...no good deed goes unpunished.
 
 
LVX23
20:41 / 18.01.05
both the anger and the compassion seem to be a learned response

I wonder if this is really the case. Anger is an extension of biosurvival fight/flight reflexes and competition. Get away from my food, don't hurt me, leave my cub alone, etc... But for a social species (like humans) might compassion be a natural state if competition was out of the picture?
 
 
Papess
21:22 / 18.01.05
Good point, LVX23. Hmm, maybe I worded that incorrectly. I should have said: We are capable of learning/training/conditioning responses of both anger and compassion.

I guess this works well with the Buddhist idea of "emptiness". If one can arise from that emptiness all the time, one can manifest as one wills. Which makes the "dissolution" of these manifestations is of such importance. I often wonder where this negativity goes, especially if not disposed of correctly. It has alwsys seemed acceptable to "remove the ailment". But where does it go? Is it to be hurled in some other direction only to harm the recipient of the force? The proper dissolution will bring back this negativity to it's proper state of "emptiness".
 
 
farseer /pokes out an i
01:45 / 19.01.05
Makkitotosimew : I often wonder where this negativity goes, especially if not disposed of correctly.
I've wondered the same myself, but on the flipside, it's all energy- just depends on how you point it. Where attention flows, power goes and so I try (not always successfully) to stay on target, and in the moment.

If you burned my house down, I'd probably have a better vantage point to see the moon. I don't particularly identify myself with any collection, or singular posession, besides the earthsuit that I currently experience my world through. And I realize that identification is mostly mental shorthand.

We have to be very select and precise about how we manifest our compassion. This is my concern. This is the wisdom I would like to get at, because, like probably everyone here, I have chosen unfavorably on at least more than one occasion. I guess I want a more efficent method of compassion. A method by which one can "pay the price" of acts of kindness, without being taxed up the arse.
I think that it does go back to intention- although it's often said that the path to hell is paved with... well, you know. There are those (like you linked before) who fashion themselves as lesson-givers, and some of them do seem to do more harm then good; but I don't really know, as I'm not in their shoes. They're human, and maybe it was an off day, or they didn't have their guru hat on straight. We're all divine in nature (or thus has been my experience), but I don't equate that divine nature with being all-knowing (whatever that omni* is).

I've made bad decisions, but I 'right' them by correcting what I can, looking inside to find where that decision came from, and then trying to not dwell on it; 'cuz the time spent dwelling past the lesson learned is time spent outside the focus of 'now'. But a more efficient way to be compassionate?

On a whim, I picked up a copy of the July 2004 Shambhala Sun. Inside is an article by Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche, who says, The reason it's so hard to make decisions is that we're confused about what we really want. If we're motivated by the happiness and welfare of others, we'll have no trouble making clear and wise decisions I've been giving it a go, keeping that in mind, when making decisions, and overall I've got to say that I've been happier, and it seems as if I've added to the happiness of those I interact with on a day 2 day basis. And really, that's rewarding enough for me.

I dig the pdf linked by trouser the trouserian (thanks!), and the summary gets right to the heart- compassion is a social process, which takes practise (to train our little mammal minds, LOL).

mark r: making compassionate acts towards those we identify as "other" does not mean you leave yourself "open" to power trippers, or those who will take advantage of you. Being open does not equal vulnerable, though 'hurt' is a part of life, like pain- but dwelling on those beyond the current experience of them can be blinding to new opportunities. Yeah, thus far in my experience, we'll all die, fuck a bunch, and randomly slam into each other's lives in a fairly haphazard, and slapstick fashion. I guess I see some beauty in that, though.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:20 / 19.01.05
this is my problem/joy.

when i see a child hit by a mother/father i feel it.
when i see a child screamed at by a mother/father i feel it.

when i see a child laughing and playing i feel it.
when i see a child being random in asda running around with a basket on there head i feel it.

when i look at most so called adults i see two faced liars that hide there emotions, or are too socially aware of consequences to express emotion.

when i look at the society i live in (uk) i see an emotionally repressed social system that raises logic and rationality above everything else, that imo only cause mental fragmentation and compartimentalism within the human mind.

i live in and am suurounded by a culture and people that are scared to feel. and i wander about overloaded with feelings, literally feeling everything, unable to turn it off, and get the distance that these unfeeling shits have to perform the acts they perform on other people.

when you can feel that on a daily basis, life gets overloading, but it also gives you an insight into just where it is you are living and just what kind of people you live with, i try to minimise my relationships with others because i feel too much, or alternately i over power my empathy by trying to emulate very logical people (imo), alternately i fill myself with anger and coldness to blend in with all these no good fucks.

i dont actually see much compassion going on around me, occasionally i do, but mostly i see unnessacary competition over people social status and items. personally i dont see those things as being or having much of a point.

id love to live in a warm loving care bear world full of fluffy people with shaven heads and giant golden floating buddahs with big white rabbit servitors, but i dont, occasionally when i lay down to sleep or pathwork.

i can see that by being compassionate myself i will help change the situation as i percieve it, but i feel totally unprotected from the no good shits of the world, to the point where id rather just stay curled up in bed, order my food online, live on the dole, and hope it all goes away thank you very much.

even thou ive taken up kung fu and no i could protect myself physically, emotionally i am still a cripple. i feel everything. i ve used various substances to make me numb legal and illegal, but being a junkie sucks.

so what i am left in bind, i love being alive and feeling life, but i hate the life and world i am living in and those that perpetuate that kind of world.i sincerely hate them and what they do and they do it knowingly to oppress the rest of us. its the only way they can feel powerful to push other people down.

so as compassion goes ill start with myself and keep it to those that have started with themselves.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:31 / 19.01.05
oh just one more thing, have you ever been that person that everyone comes too with there problems, an open emotional sponge where everybody else dumps there shit, but there your friends(read no good shits) so you suck it up, sacrafice your time and parts of your dreams for theres only to be left with nothing in return when you need support or are having a rough time, fuck it being a one way street, some of these people were people i trusted since i was 4, the way i feel they can go fuck off and die, i am not in a position to forgive them ive done that time and time again and each time they use me like they have before, these so called friends. i am the place they dump there unwanted emotional baggage, there little shit pile, there scapegoat for everything they cant handle. if they need someone to blame they can always blame the gippo who does vouluntary work to help people, cause its not a proper job is it, and its all about helping yourself really. fuck tards.

ive basically had enough of being treated like other peoples door mat, the truth is i feel like killing them, and i imagine that alot, ive had enough of leeches and arseholes that spray shit at me, the rest of the world i have tolerance for to some degree, but there are some people that if i just werent so 'nice' would be bleeding.

forgive me.
 
 
Papess
18:32 / 19.01.05
Mark, you need to go on a retreat, hon. Take some time for you to heal. Some retreats can be done to help restore your own balance and resources. If you can't go somewhere else, and it is possible that you can do it in your home, it can be done rather easily.

1. Clean space, smudge if you like
2. Turn off all devices and appliances (cept fridge..not a good idea, but cellphones and landlines ARE!)
3. Open with a banishing type ritual, (not necessarily LBRP) and then a protection spell/ritual. Seal it.

On the first day, one should try not to cause too much stress on the body by rotating active and sitting meditation, I think for about an hour at a time. It is helpful to have a timer. Acts like a gong. One could also do various puja or devotional practice to an embodiment of compassion and healing.

I think it is very beneficial that once you are done, you do a ganachakra. Here is a Thelemic Ganachakra to accompany the Thelemic Boddhisattva Vow Illmatic posted. A ganachakra is a blessing in that it shares the merits of your labour with all sentient beings.

Hmm, are there any Thelemic devotional pratices that engender healing and compassion?

I know it's a dark place you seem to be in Mark, but I know if one doesn't turn a light on, one tends to crash into things. I have a "built in light" who happens to be my son. I don't have a choice but to continue, and curling up in a fetal position becacuse I can't face the fucking bullshit of this world is not an option. Doing a small retreat can help restore strength and heal oneself. You should know that though!

Then it's back to the battle!
 
 
LVX23
20:18 / 19.01.05
Mark's situation brings up an interesting point: How do you practice compassion without becoming overwhelmed with all that you absorb? Or, how can you be open without being unguarded?

Also, be careful how much of what you're "seeing" in other people isn't just your own projection. We all build maps of our world and they're probably more often wrong than accurate. Just because you "see" competition and selfishness doesn't mean you're seeing everything. In my experience, most people have moments of love and compassion and grace within their lives. More often than not it's reserved for their loved ones. When we step out into the big wide world it tends to feel safest to put up the defenses and blinders. I guess part of being compassionate is willingly dropping your guard, stepping out of the fear/competition game, allowing that people might be better than you think. Fear is usually most real in our minds.
 
 
Unconditional Love
00:14 / 20.01.05
well ive felt alot better since i wrote those two posts, i think this thread and all its contributions stimulate and facilitate compassion.

ive started a practice of elementary compassion based upon kung fu and the chinese elements, and also the the compassionate exorciser of demons the dark lord of the northen heaven, so far for a two day practice it seems to be going well.

i am making attributions for all beings, asking for humility, compassion, love, joy, faith,truth and should add patience too those qualities as well as in my case its well needed.

this thread has helped me decide something very important.
thanking you all.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
00:23 / 20.01.05
MDMA and group sex has been doing it for me of late...
 
 
LVX23
04:57 / 20.01.05
Sheesh! He moves to New York and look what happens. Next you'll be growing tits and singing back-up for Gen...
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:32 / 21.01.05
sounds like a great idea boy.

does your suitcase have clasps or zips?
 
 
Papess
20:17 / 21.01.05
Mark's situation brings up an interesting point: How do you practice compassion without becoming overwhelmed with all that you absorb? Or, how can you be open without being unguarded?

What? Have I been typing in glossolalia? :P

This is my dilemna, too. I can't figure out how to be caring and compassionate towards some people, without feeling like I am going to get hurt in the process. It disturbs me more when it is from someone you know well, and quite possibly have extended yourself to in the past. When one keeps having to accept or forgive inconsiderate and sometimes harmful behavior and then open up one's heart/mind to them again, only to be shafted by them once more, it can be exhausting, as well as infuriating.

Once is forgivable. Continually being taken advantage of or being taken for granted, is not. Some part of me thinks that not commmunicating with these people, and cutting them out of your life is a good option. But then they are just going to go do this to some other hapless fool. I guess the theory is that they will eventually isolate themself, but truly, if they don't value their friendships or family, then what does it matter? Plus, there is always someone to screw over on this Ship of Fools.

I have known people who have made a career out of screwing their friends over, and always as some sort of lesson that they needed to teach. I see magicians do this all the time to each other, too. Like some nasty, messed-up messiah complex.

When is enough, enough? It is fine to try and be all transcendant about it, but at some point, some people just walk all over you. What do you do with those people? Whip out your wrathful compassion and smack them with it? Wouldn't that make me just like the person who screwed me over? Is that the point? So what is the point of doing "good, kind things" again? Can you all see the lovely hamster wheel I am spinning on with this dilemna in compassion?

The problem is I can try and make the negativity end with me, but if the other person isn't doing that too, the chances are it will just strain the relationship and end up worse. Still, just cutting these people loose isn't always an option.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:48 / 22.12.07
Was going to put this in Stupid Magic Q's but wanted an excuse to bump this thread.

I have embarked on a year-long programme as of today where I undertake at least 9 compassionate acts every day, as a devotional act for Sigyn.

I'm not by nature very good at this stuff, though, so it would be nice to get suggestions for things I could be doing in this line. Ta!
 
  

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