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The Xmas Factor

  
  

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■
16:34 / 21.12.04
Don't forget the ability go go for long walks in city centres in the middle of the road without the risk of being run over.
 
 
Mistoffelees
20:47 / 10.10.05
The time has come again! Only 75 (less, more?) days left, hohoho!

So, I´m not celebrating it. But I like it, that (starting two weeks ago) I can get all those sweets until it´s january again, and it´s back to ordinary chocolate.

And (not really caring for the festivities) it´s fun watching other people getting all nervous, angry, broke and hyperactive about it. Many people act like they have to celebrate it or be punished. Hello? Santa is not holding a gun to your head, the reindeer will ot kick your butt if you just say no. "It´s only for the children", yeah, right.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:56 / 10.10.05
No no no, bad enough the shops are full of Jingle Bells and Christmas cards already. Mary's not even in her third trimester, for crying out loud.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
22:01 / 10.10.05
What I quite like about xmas- even though I'm not a Christian- is that unlike, say, birthdays, you get to give things to people. I can't say it without sounding self righteous, but it is nice to see people's reactions when you've thought about what to get them, isn't it?

On the other hand, there's the fact that people feel they have to get eachother Xmas presents, and so end up getting thmesomething a bit rubbish. Hmm. What does anyone else think?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:01 / 10.10.05
I thiiink, Mistoffelees, you might be slightly underplaying the extent to which the Xmas holiday period (as opposed to the Christian celebration of Christ's birth) becomes a focus for all kinds of anxieties. As Boboss said above:


So, if family life is a source of stress, mild to extreme, or a site of trauma, a season which focuses on and socially enforces that ain't much fun.

Equally, if you're not top of the financial tree, and it's the season of spending and providing, this may not be much fun, etc etc...

There are many more examples. I'll try and dig up some figures 2moro, but mental health services often show a sharp increase in use over the period.

Me? The major stress of mine has been just wiped out, so I'm looking forward to some secular and non-secular celebrating and enjoying. Bring on the light!

But, in the manner of deco's in the shops, this is way too early. We've got Hallowe'en etc yet, peoples
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:15 / 10.10.05
Yeah - the point is, Misto, that I would actually be punished if I didn't celebrate Christmas, in that my family would never let me hear the end of it. Equally, I would love to spend money on getting gifts for my friends - but I can't, because my family is enormous. So I buy them things, not always things they want, and they buy me things which I almost invariably don't want, because we don't have much in common. Jingle all the sigh.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:17 / 10.10.05
Last year, incidentally, was the first Christmas ever I didn't spend with my family. It was superb.
 
 
ibis the being
22:45 / 10.10.05
I'm already planning how I can get out of spending Christmas with my family this year. As if the weight of our many personal disfunctions and fractured relationships weren't enough crash Santa's sleigh, my parents decided to separate during the holidays seven years ago. I guess they thought, hey - divorcing after 23 years of bitter, unhappy marriage won't be distressing enough to our children, why don't we ruin all Christmases for all the rest of time? And no, I'm not over it, because what used to be a holiday is now a politico-familial nightmare. Last year my brother skipped it all, and I was so angry at him... I think I'm going to do it this year.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:47 / 10.10.05
Today's episode of Diagnosis: Murder wa a Christmas special. That, friends, is going too far.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:13 / 10.10.05
See, like Petey, I will be spending Christmas without dad and step-mum this year. Which will be great.

Which is not to say that my family life is one of Dickensian horror. Family vists are these days more often than not about about my procrastination, anticipatory tension and surprised enjoyment.

But pretty much every family Xmas gathering (undertaken, like Petey, on pain of being sulked at and guilt-tripped for the rest of the year) since I was a late teenager has fallen on the Plumsfamily scale:


1>>>>>>>>>>>>10
1=much more tense than the usual family get together, plus more enforced time together/social duty to get through.
10=family apocalypse.

There are basically various reasons why the Xmas period is not a good time for us to be together.

So, my best 2 christmases have been spent with friends. Enjoying the exttra time, food, drink, silly telly etc etc.

As will this one. Bring it on.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:13 / 10.10.05
God, Ibis, that really sucks.
 
 
fuckbaked
00:47 / 11.10.05
I really dislike Christmas. I'm not a Christian, and I don't want to celebrate. I haven't wanted to celebrate since I was a little kid, when celebrating meant buying hardly anything and getting hundreds of dollars worth of presents from my parents. I spend time with my immediate family on a regular basis, but I really hate having really no choice but to spend a whole day in the presence of my aunt, who thinks Christmas is a perfect oppertunity to insult me for how shitty my life is, for being vegan, for not being a republican, for not having graduated college yet, etc. I hate the extreme pressure to spend a shitload of money buying stuff for people that they don't really want (yeah, I know you wanted an ugly sweater or some stupid CD that you'll never listen to and that you could have just downloaded or that I could have burned you a copy of), and I really don't like the idea of other people spending a lot of money because they feel like they have to. None of my friends are Christians, but they always buy me stuff, and they expect me to do the same. I try to talk to them about it before the buying season starts, to get them to agree that since neither of us is Christian, and since we'd both rather be spending our money on beer and weed than ugly sweaters, that we ought to just agree not to give gifts, but they never want to agree to that, so I always end up spending money on my non-Christian friends. I don't actually spend time with my friends on Christmas doing anything celebratory, so it seems like it's just another reason to have to spend money, and I feel like it's all some commercially driven bullshit holiday where the only point is to spend money and to make sure that your friends and family also spend money, sometimes more money than they really have available to them. It doesn't get all that cold here. It's not as if it snows. I find it rather depressing to be stuck inside my parents house all day with my crazy, mean aunt insulting me. If I try to go anywhere, my friends are all stuck inside with their families (or happy to be with their families, but they never sound happy about it), and none of the stores or restaurants are open. I'm not a Christian, and I wish other people would stop trying to insist that I celebrate a Christian holiday. If it's about spending time with people you care about, then why do I have to spend time with my evil fucking aunt, rather than my friends, whom I actually do care about? All it seems to be about to me is spending money to line to pockets of those bullshit corporations that I hate anyway.
 
 
modern maenad
07:17 / 11.10.05
OK, so I'm gonna wade in and probably get pummeled as a result, but so far the anti- christmas debate is seeming a little one sided. For me part of being an adult is occassionally doing things that you might not want to do. I too find christmas with my folks fractious and challenging, but feel that its just part and parcel of being a family. I'm also pretty sure that it can be an effort and a strain for my parents too - we're all pretty different, with divergent beliefs, lifestyles etc. (Like fuckbaked I'm vegan too). I suppose what I'm trying to say is that for most of us the whole christmas-with-family can be hard work, but to me that's just part of the package, and something we need to accept. Having said that it is important to spend time with friends too, so what my partner and I have done is set up a three year rolling christmas scheme - one year with my family, one with his, one to do what we like (go away, have friends over etc.)....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:39 / 11.10.05
See, like Petey, I will be spending Christmas without dad and step-mum this year.

Oh God, I don't get to do that twice in a row - I'd be excommunicated!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:43 / 11.10.05
I too find christmas with my folks fractious and challenging, but feel that its just part and parcel of being a family... that's just part of the package, and something we need to accept.

Why?
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:45 / 11.10.05
It genuinely baffles me as to how some people can spend 11 months of the year seriously, and even vehemently, objecting to the involvement of the Christian church in the governing of our day to day lives and then as soon as December parks itself on our doorstep make an even greater effort to buy into Christian symbolism. I guess at least God will forgive them for being hypocrites.

Q:Why do people celebrate Halloween if they're not Pagans?

A: Because it's fun to pretend all the ghosties and goblins are real. Dress up like a zombie and have a laugh.

You assume a lot when you suggest that celebrating Christmas means that people automatically begin to worship the Christian faith (albeit for a couple of days). As has been pointed out upthread there is a lot of Christmas symbolism which either has nothing to do with Christian faith (ie red-suited shamans with holly poisoning) or were co-opted by the Christian faith (the sun-king's birth).

It can be argued that Christmas, as celebrated by most of Europe for centuries, is a celebration that has become so much part of our social psyche that, in the end, whether or not you believe in Jesus is irrelevant. It's a celebration of the human capacity for joy.
 
 
Sax
07:45 / 11.10.05
And think how bad the hand-knitted jumper is going to be this year.
 
 
Sax
07:47 / 11.10.05
That to Petey about a million posts ago.
 
 
Mistoffelees
08:07 / 11.10.05
@ everyone, who said, they expect punishment of some sort, if they skip xmas:

I´ll only accept that, if you at least once actually did skip the family get togethers.

I talked about it with a friend last year, and she too said, her mother won´t accept a "No!", and there´d be dire consequences. And then I asked her, how she knows what will happen, and if she ever dared not to travel to her mother on xmas holisdays. And she acted caught and surprised and had to admit, she hadn´t dared yet and only expected her mother to react this way.

How about this:
You book a holiday somewhere warm and sunny and spend your time there? I can´t imagine the family to give you a hard time about that. If you have no problems with "bending the truth" you could say you won the holiday.

@ money problems
Yes! Give "them" small presents. And if they pout or bitch about it, tell them you just don´t have the money. That takes some nerve, yes. But it will shut up everybod on xmas: "How can you complain about your present being cheap? And on christmas, too! You know, ze has not so much money these days. Well, I never! Coal for you, next year."

I get "christmas money" from work (a catholic colleague actually said, I shouldn´t get it, since I don´t celebrate, but maybe she was joking). But most years the money just disappeared (paying for insurances that have to be payed at th end of the year and pushing my account closer to + than - again).
 
 
modern maenad
08:13 / 11.10.05
Petey I suppose for me it stems from a growing awareness of my parent's feelings and the sense that I owe it to them. When the shit has hit the proverbial fan in the past they were the ones I could count on to put me up and put up with me, and even though it was awkward and stressful all round I know they'd do it again. Words like duty and responsibility keep popping into my head but they're only part of the equation. I suppose partly its to do with the fact that as I get older (34 tomorrrow) I want to be part of my family, no matter how difficult it can be. I often feel our culture is moving in a pretty unpleasant direction where everyone feels they have a right to be optimally happy, with the world revolving around them, at all times. Whereas I feel that life's not like that, and that the various social networks/familial bonds that we're involved in necessitate a degree of reciprocation on all our parts. I know I'm getting a bit vague and abstract, but I suppose I'm getting back to my first point, that part of being grown up is doing things that you might not want to do, but you just get on with it and see the bigger picture and accept that life isn't always about our individual needs taking top priority.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
08:28 / 11.10.05
You assume a lot when you suggest that celebrating Christmas means that people automatically begin to worship the Christian faith...

You assume that I'm suggesting that people automatically begin to worship the Christian faith.

This was never my implication. More that there was something of a tacit buying in to the whole Christian imagery. That is Christian, not pagan or other coincidental event and that is regardless of which came first.

Clearly for some people upthread there is justification above convenience. But conversely there are some who seem to begrudge their own justification for the whole shebang.

For instance there's the whole having to do things you don't want to do argument. That is something that's usually applied to tax returns, washing the dishes or, even on a family level, wiping the arse of a frail and dementia ridden relative. Is Christmas really the equivalent of such things? If you might end up in court or ill or pursued for negligence then I guess so but I've not heard of that happening.

On an anecdotal level, last year I went cycling with about 80 people, repaired bikes, had a very nice Lebanese dinner including lots of lovely salad and then went home to hot chocolate and a few movies. Much like a regular Sunday but the roads were a bit quieter. I may well have better Christmases in the future but that will be remembered as the year that Christmas beame fun again.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:25 / 11.10.05
Maenad, I do take your point, feel somewhat similarly in terms of *slowly* recognising, and hopefully, appreciating, the things my family have given to me. As well as coming to some understanding about the things they weren't able to give.

I think it might be an ageing this as well. As per above, my family visits are somewhat different these days, and that's partly because there are four adults in the equation.

However, it's possible within that recognition, to help and hinder the process. And for us, Christmas tends to be the worst of all times.

I think my dad/s-mums decision to go home over the period(ie, they'll be in India) was a useful recognition that there are much better times for us to be together and better places for them to be.

Forcing the issue isn't always the best way either.

It's also worth bearing in mind, that unless we know the people behind the suits, no-one really knows what kind of family stress we're talking about.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:38 / 11.10.05
This year I'm only spending Christmas Eve with my family. I am quite sad about this as I love Christmas time and I always get to eat a lot of expensive chocolate and big dinners and watch bad television and argue about politics and religion with everyone continuously for days. It's fun. However as my sweetheart spent Christmas with my family last year I have to return the favour and spend it with his this year. Also transport is such that if I don't go with him we'll be apart for days and you're meant to be happy at Christmas time not lonely. So that's what's happening. I bet they don't even watch National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

Anyhow I'm still making pierogi so I guess it's going to be fine.

The presents are the rubbishest things by the way. I just want to gorge on chocolate and sing carols... and to think people don't enjoy Christmas. You get to sing badly and eat foooooodddd. So much tasty food. Yum. Hark the chocolate after dinner mints. Christ is born in Bethlehem.
 
 
modern maenad
14:42 / 11.10.05
unless we know the people behind the suits, no-one really knows what kind of family stress we're talking about

absolutely, and in original post nearly inserted addendum about fact that I'm talking in terms of your average slightly dysfunctional but essentially loving set up. I'm certainly not advocating anyone putting themselves at emotional or physical risk, and can speak from personal experience about the importance of maintaining distance from family members when its one's mental health at stake.
 
 
Loomis
14:45 / 11.10.05
Hey fuckbaked, my friend. Christmas has come early for you this year, and I bought you a gift. Take a look:

What do you think? Did you like it? Have another look:

Great, isn't it? I saw it and thought of you. It's a perfect fit. And it's vegan, so no problems there. And you can use it over and over again. Here it is again:

Fabulous! Do you know what it is yet? It's called a BREAK BETWEEN PARAGRAPHS!
 
 
Jub
14:53 / 11.10.05
streamofmuthafuckingconsciousnessloomisdontchaknownofink?
 
 
Cherielabombe
21:22 / 11.10.05
Wow loomis I was just about to ask if the kids these days don't do paragraphing cuz it's unfashionable or something, but you beat me to it.

Oh, I love Christmas, by the way. But I like to wait to start celebrating 'til December.


It's weird that Barbelith has put up a Christmas thead so early. Will the mince pies in this thread really keep 'til December??
 
 
w1rebaby
21:44 / 11.10.05
It's last year's Christmas thread. Nobody wanted to throw it out even though it was looking all threadbare and the tinsel had come off. They just drag it out again now because they're too cheap or soppy to start a new one.

I don't mind visiting my family, personally; I don't do it for very long and my family are mostly okay. I don't buy presents for anyone I'm not going to actually physically see and sometimes not even that. The major reason I go to see them over Christmas is because there's nothing else to do. So much stuff closes down, and all of the people I know go to see their families, so it's either join in or sit at home doing fuck all and being miserable. I never have enough money to go on holiday at the end of the year and I don't like going on holiday on my own anyway (the last one I went on was, er, to the town where my dad lives on the Devon coast).

So why not? I can visit my dad and stepmother and argue with him about the physics of energy-efficient glass while my stepmother calls us both idiots, and then go see my mother and stepfather who will feed me vast quantities of booze including Bloody Marys for breakfast, and then fuck off back to London for New Year when people start returning and parties start occurring again. There's no real obligation involved, it's just a convenient time of the year to see them given that staying in London would be completely lonely and miserable anyway. I hate the cosy family presents tinsel isn't it wonderful shite on the telly christmas pud feed your soul to the dark lord of conformity Christmas thing, but while my family may have faults they don't expect me to do any of that shite.

The last time I sung a hymn at Christmas was in the pub, trying to make more noise than another table of drunken bastards, which I think is perfectly reasonable. There's a ceremony they do around there called "the burning of the ashen faggot" which involves much drinking, reciting and general wassailling - I've been a couple of times and I think it's pretty good. It's certainly not enforced Christianity, or indeed Christianity of any sort.
 
 
w1rebaby
21:49 / 11.10.05
I'd also like to say that the reason I've reached what I think is a pretty balanced and level relationship with my family is that I've had no hesitation in the past when it comes to simply not going to see them if I didn't feel like it, something I started when I was 13 or so. Don't feel like visiting my mother for the weekend? Don't go. Perhaps not something to spring on someone suddenly but it's not hard in the end. You don't get the "oh Mum I've got to go out can you come round and feed the cat?" closeness but I've never had that and I don't miss it.
 
 
robertk
22:09 / 11.10.05
i don't know if it's too personal or something but i gotta say the best christmasses i had so far were the ones i spent with very limited exposal to family members. why?

i think it's partly because when i spent christmas with them (being what's left of the family, divorce and all) i always felt somewhat like we had to compete with all the other families out there spending the days singing songs and eating goose and getting all those expensive presents from aunts and grandparents. and we never could (compete, i mean).

everybody knows that christmas isn't what it used to be when we were kids, but i feel i never really figured out what it should be now that i'm a older. i guess i lost it somewhere over the years.

this year i'm probably gonna spend the fest with my girlfriend, that is, if she can make up her mind to abandon her family for the time, because if i have to spend it with her family i'm gonna be comparing hers with mine all the time, and that sucks. guess that's it.
 
  

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