BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


10..9..8..7

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
quinine92001
20:50 / 14.12.04
So DC is coming out with another must read series in March-COUNTDOWN-really cool pictue of Batman displaying dead body to other heroes. Who is the body? Who cares? What does this mean for the DC Universe? Is it getting ULTIMIZED? I wish Superman would just punch a hole in time and return the Universe to its cool origins+the many shades of Kryptonite. Should I just stick to the back issues of DC heroes that I love and forget about all of this continuity? Or should I just embrace the "new" comcepts?
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
21:59 / 14.12.04
I've read all the theories and so far I'm not convinced that it's any of the expected suspects:
Dick Grayson/Nightwing
Blue Beetle
Atom
Catwoman/Birds Of Prey girls

I'm plumping for Alfred, it would continue the idea's in Identity Crisis nicely.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
22:12 / 14.12.04
Richard Whiteley.
 
 
quinine92001
22:31 / 14.12.04
Butwhy kill anyone? We all know that no one ever stays dead for long. I don't think they should kill off Grayson, I mean they tried to remove Babs Gordon from the scene by Paralysis but she still is fighting crime!
 
 
FinderWolf
22:57 / 14.12.04
Jim Lee himself said the pic of Bats holding a dead body on the cover is intentionally trying to throw viewers/readers off... so the 'dead body' may not be a dead body at all, just someone badly injured, etc. ...

I just hope this big "Crisis 2" is GOOD.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:09 / 15.12.04
Well, Crisis 2 was Zero Hour, but as they're refering to the original Crisis, it would suggest Robin or Nightwing as it's harking back to that famous Superman cover from the original, alternatively Crisis came about because of the actions of the Guardians in pre-history, and with Hal's return what happens to Kyle?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:25 / 20.12.04
from this week's Lying in the Gutters...

--

PRIME BEEF

So, I get this e-mail. It could be one of the nonsense faked leaks DC are trying to put out there (to counter the true ones I usually get) but even if fiction, it's entertaining enough.

"Anyway, apparently Countdown leads into DC's major summer event, Crisis on Earth. The basic plot is that someone wants their Earth (Earth X) restored the way they remember it. The twist is that the protagonist is based on our Earth, and in our time.

"It's a place and time called Prime Time.

"20 years ago, post Crisis, the protagonist was integrated into our time and space, and has been reading comics but slowly becoming aware they were out of place and time. After reading Identity Crisis, something contained within leads to this person realising that, and they want to correct matters.

"Supposedly DC Countdown leads to the moment of awareness, and the reboot of the DCU is their point of view focused upon the heroes and how this person wants to see the DCU. For a few months, significant changes will be made to the DCU, destroying the concepts that most people believed in, but they won't be long lasting.

"Seven Soldiers is supposedly the 'real' DCU universe as we see it, and events contained within that will lead to the formation of a group that knows what is wrong with the DCU, and ultimately how to fix it.

"This forms the basis of the hypertime idea, allowing multiverses and multitimelines to coexist after the event, and Seven Soldiers will suggest the awareness of the DCU that Grant Morrison wanted before as events in SS will drop hints to the characters within about their role and how to fix the brokenness."

Now I've been told that there's a lot wrong here, the timeline doesn't work out so well and things are horribly mixed up. And "Prime Time" is not the title. But that might mean there's a gem of correctness in here... somewhere...
 
 
FinderWolf
17:29 / 20.12.04
So let me get this straight, if this rumor is true, a fictional character reads Identity Crisis and doesn't like the turn it takes, and wants to change it so it never happened...?

Sounds a lot like NON-fictional comic readers!
Ba-DUM-bum.
 
 
diz
17:50 / 20.12.04
niiice, FW.

i'm getting really excited about this. i've just started picking up Teen Titans recently, and i'm liking the way things are developing over there in their dark future arc. as much as i didn't ultimately like IC, i think some of the dangling plot threads (the Luthor suit, the memory wipes) leave room for interesting shake-ups. i'm liking the way the new JLA arc is spinning off JLA/Avengers and the way both that story and the current JLA Classified storyline seem to be having fun with more wild Silver Agey alternate universe goodness. the new concept for the Legion relaunch is really exciting, and, of course, there's Seven Soldiers on the horizon.

the vague outlines of the whole thing are starting to look promising...
 
 
Aertho
18:30 / 20.12.04
Outline of what?

What could possibly be done? rewrite history to include Super-Girl's horse? I'm so bored to tears with DCU and Marvel proper. In all honesty, I'd prefer a DCU with no JLA necessary. I'd keep Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman, Catwoman, Firestorm and that's it. Screw the Fawcetts, the Marvel Family, the entire JLA/JSA/Titans... and build something worth discovering.

Do we know who the Seven Soldiers are yet?
 
 
diz
18:57 / 20.12.04
In all honesty, I'd prefer a DCU with no JLA necessary. I'd keep Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman, Catwoman, Firestorm and that's it.

that's basically a slightly more extreme version of what they tried to do with the first Crisis. the problems with stripping things down in a "back to basics" approach are that you get rid of a lot of good shit for no reason and the restrictions placed on the story basically leave you nowhere good to go after a few years. look at Ultimate Spider-Man: the first two years were pretty good, but then after Spidey fought each of his A-listers for the first time again, it ran out of gas pretty quickly.

i think that we should not be surprised that creating an artificial scarcity leads to sterility. i think that throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the DCU makes a hell of a lot more sense.

Do we know who the Seven Soldiers are yet?

Klarion, Mister Miracle, Frankenstein, Zatanna, The Guardian, Bulleteer and Shining Knight. new versions of all of them, apparently.
 
 
Aertho
20:12 / 20.12.04
Good point. I'm full of hope after reading the Ultimates and ABC that I can entirely see new and better interpretations of a DCU without the inclusion and smoothing out of stupid things like Hawkman's twentysome incarnations. The DCU is the universe of icons and the idea that a unified existence should be similar to Marvel's is a bad idea. Apples shouldn't try to be like oranges.

You are right about the Spiderman crappage. I never read it, but wasn't there an Ultimate Carnage? Why why why?

First though: Can someone explain hypertime to me?

We had a very heated argument over the validity of Superman and the integrity of his "universe" a while ago. I don't see the point of trying to make Superman relevant and cool to all ages. You start there, and you may finish there, but you don't learn anything new from Kal-El...
 
 
Warewullf
20:21 / 20.12.04
First though: Can someone explain hypertime to me?

SpaceTime is a river. Other/parallel universes are tributaries flowing around, beside and occasionally through it. Where the rivers overlap, continuity goes funny. Multiple Hawkmen exist, Green Lanterns show up, cause an origin, then vanish.

Basically, anytime some one yells "But that doesn't fit with newly established continuity!", editors can say "A wizard did it."

Sorry, I mean "Hypertime did it."

Not that anyone's actually used Hypertime (really) since that Flash storyline...
 
 
Aertho
20:24 / 20.12.04
It SEEMS simple enough
 
 
Warewullf
20:39 / 20.12.04
Yeah, but the hardcore fans won't go for it. WHat it boils down to is each writer being able to do whatever he wantys with a given title. The next writer to come along can pick the bits he likes and run with them, totally ignoring the rest of what's gone before.

Imagine a superhero comic totally unburdened by continuity. Each story arc can totally contradict the previous without any problems.

Superman and Lois are married one issue and veritable strangers the next.

Of course, that's an extreme example. If used in moderation (and if widely accepted by the fans and creators), Hypertime could really be a Godsend for writers/editors.
 
 
LDones
21:19 / 20.12.04
There have been strange hints of this coming for awhile.

Lex Luthor's final words in his last appearance in the DCU, from Superman/Batman #6, are: "There will be a reckoning... A Crisis..." He's been presumed dead since in the DCU.

Morrison said there's a bit in either Classified or Seven Soldiers about Black Hand ending up in an alternate dimension where there are no super-heroes - our world - which sounds like this Prime Time bit, and would mean Classified is one of the forerunners of this Crisis or reboot, which would make the return of glorious Batman silliness more in line with far-less-interesting Batman, I suppose.

There's everything from Teen Titans lately, certainly, about the darker future.

If Johnston's rumors are true, it would make sense why DC Editorial have been unafraid to do seemingly insane things with good characters. Identity Crisis could be the first wave of uncalled for bleakness that rings around due to this Crisis, and could easily be explained away via Hypertime, likewise, the Goldfish Man-Batman could be explained away the same. Identity Crisis and its semmingly terribly forced reimagining of the DCU could just be the first stage of Hypertime making its way in - it would make sense as to why so many characters are utterly incongruous with current/recent incarnations of them. I Can't Believe It's Not The Justice League could make its way in/out of continuity fine with the silliness of Hypertime.

I'm starting to like this idea, if it's true. It will please me. And the old gray-templed Superman of an alternate earth has been making appearances as well - a fine visual marker that we may get back to alternate earth goodness.
 
 
diz
21:29 / 20.12.04
the wide acceptance by the fans is the problem, i think. i think a lot of it is geek pride in the work they've put in getting to know the existing continuity. they're just heavily invested in the status quo, and Hypertime radically threatens that.

it's such a great idea, though.
 
 
Benny the Ball
22:07 / 20.12.04
For years now Mr Morrison has been saying that his ultimate idea is to create a living comic that bleeds from fiction into our real world, so this fits kind of into this in a sanitised fashion (I think Grant actually was referring to Magickally creating a kind of totem of imagination that allowed for the more fantastical in our world). I kind of like the idea, just that with these things expectation of execution can far excede the ability of many creative teams. There seems to be a real devide between genuinely interesting creators, entertaining creators, and terrible dross hacks and artists - however this allows for both to exist without causing uproar between cross-title fans too much - so crap like Hush (which I thought was extremely weakly written, and I've never loved Jim Lee's art) can sit alongside Animal Man say. Seven Soldiers should be a very interesting series at the least.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:20 / 21.12.04
In terms of 'the character who realises something is wrong', I could only bear to flick very quickly through the last IC very quickly, but doesn't Atom shrink smaller than anyone has known him to shrink before? Wonder if he goes deep enough to see the wiring under the board. Both previous Crisis have been driven by someone who wanted to remake the universe for ends either ultimately evil (Antimonitor) or good (Parallax), so maybe Atom is on the same trip.

However, this is basically a rewrite of Zero Hour and I'm also dubious about the Lying in the Gutters report and it's 'comics report real events but at the same time someone it outside reading them' thing. Maybe the baddy will be the other, older Buddy from Grant's Animal Man? He was removed from continuity twenty years ago and he was pissed off...
 
 
FinderWolf
19:32 / 21.03.05
OK, DC has said that the cover to DC COUNTDOWN was not the final version of the cover...and here it is!!!

SPOILERZZ!!!!

http://www.newsarama.com/WizWorldLA05/DC/Countdowncvr.htm


...it almost seems like a joke (the new title, that is).
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:11 / 21.03.05
It seems totally like a joke - looks like one of those comic remixes from popculture, but it apparently is the real deal.

Dear me...
 
 
X-Himy
20:23 / 21.03.05
Still, who is that in Batman's arms?
 
 
Billuccho!
20:28 / 21.03.05
Almost certainly Blue Beetle, now. Hopefully he ain't dead... Giffen'll kill someone.
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:33 / 21.03.05
Just read the 5 page preview on popcultureshock - those monkey's have no idea how to write Blue Beetle at all. I get the impression that I'm not going to like the series for two reasons - they keep saying that Beetle is playing an important role and they write him like an idiot.

He is one of the most rounded, sincere, brave, intelligent characters in the DCU, and they write him like an IDIOT!

Plus, Barbara likes him, why can't they just accept that.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:34 / 21.03.05
SPOILERS!!

It's NOW called COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS.



I don't mind it being a lead-in to Crisis 2, but 'Infinite Crisis' just sounds...silly. Like all the "crisis on infinite identity house of M Zero Hour Millenium Secret Crises Wars" jokes we fanboys have made for years.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:36 / 21.03.05
Barbara likes him but not LIKES him likes him...or at least not enough to ever actually date him in any way.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:37 / 21.03.05
The OMAC program first popped up in the last few issues of Birds of Prey, where Babs gets shut out by OMAC while surfing through cyberspace, much to her surprise. I see it shows up again here...
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:43 / 21.03.05
She flirts with him in Formally Known as Justice League, that's enough evidence for me that she likes him, and would date him...
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:58 / 21.03.05
Sorry for the thread-rot, but when did every single character in the DCU learn Batman's secret ID?
 
 
FinderWolf
21:02 / 21.03.05
Not threadrot, that's a valid question - I didn't think Ted Kord of all people knew...

Back when Chuck Dixon was still writing Birds of Prey, he had Ted and Barbara flirt a lot but Babs never wanted to actually date him. Or they went out to dinner and he tried to get all smooth but she never wanted to kiss him or anything like that. It was one of those things where she enjoyed flirting with him and liked him as a friend, knew he had the hots for her, and knew she could get favors out of him. But wasn't going to date him. That vixen!!
 
 
Benny the Ball
21:08 / 21.03.05
Ain't she just! I haven't read BOP, but now tempted to hunt back issues for Beetle related stuff. I was just going on the shock when she hit on him on the phone in FKAJL. I think he likes her a lot, but writers seem unable to make him anything but a buffon who is playing at hero - so wrong. All the exposition about other heroes not thinking much of him, reads like they skim read the JL of the 80's/90's but didn't get it at all. Aww, I'm sorry to go on, I'm just a big BB fan.
 
 
Mario
01:08 / 22.03.05
OMAC reminds me a LOT of the Monitor.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
07:05 / 22.03.05
Can someone explain to me exactly how this cover is different?
Silly 90's sounding title aside the artwork is EXACTLY the same is it not?
 
 
_Boboss
09:20 / 22.03.05
what's really missing from this thread is ME

that's the ugliest cover in the world. ever. in the world.

and god, i mean, but crises no?
 
 
Benny the Ball
09:46 / 22.03.05
It is awful, the title looks stuck on, and the more I look at it, the more I hate the characters on it, so flat, so lifeless - ironically the dead(maybe) guy(probably) in Batman's arms is the most lifelike image there.

There's a debate raging on the DC boards about if it's Beetle (the goggles!) Atom (he must die!) Dr Light (that's not a chin, its a goatee!).

I just get the feeling that all the stuff mentioned above about awareness of them being trapped in a story is going to go out the window in aid of bad characterisation and 'look how good a writer I am, I have researched a two part story from 1968 and have referenced it, I'm the best' crap.
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply