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Underground > Temple >

Practical Anti-corporate magick

  
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
illmatic
13:57 / 19.02.06
I linked to this essay in a switchboard thread but it seems pertinent here. It's a discussion of activism as seen from the point of view of NLP, specifically through NLP style "modelling" of Noam Chomsky. Seth, I'd value your thoughts if you have time to read it. I liked it as it combines working on yourself with working on the world, two disciplines which don't meet frequently enought. It's a much more focused and sensible approach than smashing the man with Chaos magic.

bugs in bottles, or chaos bombs (I'm still fuzzy on what those are) seem like 'spells' that have a focused purpose, and an often impeccable record of success.

I would argue that most workings against MegaCorpCo don't have this degree of focus. It seems easier to do this stuff on an inter-personal level, rather than against a huge abstract entity.

What they do, though, is help the occultist reinforce that they are an enlightened but embattled soldier fighting the good fight, and though they realize this bug-bottle won't bring the stocks crashing down, they feel as though they've done something for the 'cause.'

While I take your point, DH, I'd again argue that they could spend their time doing something more practical and relevant.
 
 
Digital Hermes
20:02 / 19.02.06
While I take your point, DH, I'd again argue that they could spend their time doing something more practical and relevant.

Oh, for sure. I hoped my personal disdain for the practice was clear. I guess what I wanted to point out was that those sorts of actions do indeed have an effect, they just aren't the effect the performers might intend. A subconcious effect, perhaps.

I think the trick would be to, as aspiring magicians, realize the possibilty for transendance in everything, that beyond sigilization and god-workings, reading the newspaper, doing the dishes, even using the washroom, can all be magical acts. I think the danger is to begin to perceive the esoterica as 'true magic,' instead of realizing that they are specific perceptual and interactive tools for recognizing magic, and perhaps even touching it.

I might be stepping on pedagogical toes with this, so I apologize in advance if I've done so.

* * *

I really found the social engineering read to be fascinating, the notion of invading through the sheer confidence that they will trust you if you look like you belong. That is subtle magic!

So, what's the next step? Any html-savy barbeloids fancy putting together a clean, professional looking site, see if we can build an anti-corp web presence that doesn't look slapped together by hippies?

(I am not referring at all to Barbelith, which is the prettiest, cleanest website around, and we're lucky to have it...)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:32 / 19.02.06
realize the possibilty for transendance in everything, that beyond sigilization and god-workings, reading the newspaper, doing the dishes, even using the washroom, can all be magical acts. I think the danger is to begin to perceive the esoterica as 'true magic,' instead of realizing that they are specific perceptual and interactive tools for recognizing magic, and perhaps even touching it.

Couldn't agree more, DH--that's spot on.
 
 
Dead Megatron
22:14 / 19.02.06
(diletante speaking -- bear in mind)

Having just read the previous posts - still not read social engineering link - and paying special attention to DH quote MC just bolded up. it made me think of a comic strip that is quite an efecctive anti-corp "meme-weapon" (not sure if i'd call it magic, though): the comic strip "Dilbert". It is curious how people who never worked by a big corp (or any environment that patheticaly tries to emulate one - which is my case)simply does not seem to get, and, once they do get hired by one, it is less than a month before they star finding it funny. Because, y'know, it dead on the spot about the mindset of many os those people who aspire to become a "big fish" in the company, as seen by the eyes of the so-called "cubicle slaves". It is a meme-weapon in the sense that exposes all the shit in this zeitgeist, making it harder for people to buy what they are selling.

Does that constitute an internet-fowarded "chaos bomb"?

Enlighten me, o wise ones!
 
 
Seth
22:53 / 19.02.06
It's unlikely that a bomb can be constructed and deployed by accident or as a side-effect. The creator's motivations are key, and I'd be surprised if they see what they do as an anti-corporate attack rather than poking a little fun at the matter. And I can see little evidence of damage done to any corporation by Dilbert: it seems more like the sugar coating that makes the pill easier to swallow.

I can't quite believe I just responded sensibly to a post that posited Dilbert vs Capitalism.

MrCoffeeBean: You are doing your character and your ideas no favours with your behaviour towards Mordant Carnival. You're Gallowaying yourself at an alarming rate. Apologising for calling hir a shithead would be an appropriate way of helping yourself out, as would seeing how some of your posts are at odds with the rest of what is generally said here and asking yourself and us questions about how they're at odds. I'm afraid you're going to run into continual conflict in the Temple Forum until you look at the consequences of the way you're communicating and the reasons we've chosen to take issue with your ideas, which are a) not yours in that they are rehashes of other people's work, b) thoroughly familiar to most of the contributors here to a point at which we can offer many useful critiques of them and c) thoroughly questionable in their ethics and efficacy.

Ethical magic is important because its practise changes us as much as the world we live in. We come under scrutiny and don't just allow ourselves to act out whatever we think we might want in the unexamined construct of our lives, a construct that may be increasingly divorced from anything approaching a useful approximation of the world. We take issue with you for specific reasons that we have found to be important, and part of posting here includes reading what we write and writing back as though you have tried to understand our positions at least. At present you're needlessly at odds with a bunch of people you could be friends with.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:55 / 19.02.06
It is a meme-weapon in the sense that exposes all the shit in this zeitgeist, making it harder for people to buy what they are selling.

No it isn't and no it doesn't. Has there been a dramatic shakeup in the heirachy of companies like the one Dilbert works for? Are there any fewer pointy-haired bosses? Are the cubicle slaves hacking their way to freedom with sharpened fragments torn from the photocopier? No. The only difference is that they now have blandly amusing cartoon strips to staple up in their cubicles, something they can do with impunity because their pointy-haired boss is never going to be self-aware enough to recognise himself in a million years.
 
 
Dead Megatron
23:29 / 19.02.06
point taken.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
01:11 / 20.02.06
It is a meme-weapon in the sense that exposes all the shit in this zeitgeist, making it harder for people to buy what they are selling.

No it isn't and no it doesn't. Has there been a dramatic shakeup in the heirachy of companies like the one Dilbert works for? Are there any fewer pointy-haired bosses? Are the cubicle slaves hacking their way to freedom with sharpened fragments torn from the photocopier? No.

I think you may be selling the idea short, Mordant. The effects are most likely more subtle than your exaggerated examples, and even if they were as blatant as "cubicle slaves hacking their way to freedom with sharpened fragments torn from the photocopier", how, exactly, would you know? Maybe you could explain how you can so easily tell that it has no effect whatsoever.

I mean, I wouldn't know either way, except that I have a corporate exec VP dad and I hear things that contradict your opinion.

hell, when I younger, Dad even suggested during a scolding that the strip might be in some way responsible for my blatant disregard for authority (I deny having any such disregard. Merely a case of undiagnosed ADD). I realize this little anecdote doesn't reflect well on his judgement, but he's no dummy. He doesn't like Dilbert's effect on corporate culture and he's one of the guys in charge.

Which is not to say Scott Adams will be leading TEH REVOLUTION. I doubt Dilbert is soley responsible for any massive upheaval in the corporate world, but really, that's expecting a bit much from a daily comic.

It's not hard for me to believe that it has, in fact, helped unveil some of the "shit in this zeitgeist".
 
 
Dead Megatron
01:34 / 20.02.06
What I begin to fear, in my moments of paranoid solitute, is that ther is no efficente weapon against the rule of the big corp, that this is their moment in history, and the best those who would refuse it can do is dig themselves a hole in the ground to, as they say, "weather the storm"

or whatever.

but that's me after reading too much scifi ("The Empire Never Ended", says K. Dick)

Just to clarify something I didn't a couple days back, inmmy definition, "the Man", and "the Machine" are two different things. "The Man", is the system, the "from top to bottom" rule of the society, whatever it may be (nowadays it's economics). "The Machine" is the promise of a new godhead, or godhead-like entity, that is not yet self-aware, but is in tis way to become. It is an A.I. thingy that can become the new elite, choosing the fates uf human economics/culture/society. It is what some transhumanists refer to as "the Singularity", a superior inteligence that will emerge in the near (?) future. It can be a human who gets "downloaded" into a computer, or a A.I. who acquires some human characteristiscs. It can be a unique, all-ruling being, or a whole new species of "evolved" creatures.

I'm sure you all heard this before and have your own opinions about, which I'd love to hear.
 
 
Digital Hermes
05:33 / 20.02.06
What I begin to fear, in my moments of paranoid solitute, is that ther is no efficente weapon against the rule of the big corp, that this is their moment in history, and the best those who would refuse it can do is dig themselves a hole in the ground to, as they say, "weather the storm"

You see, this is where I go from all of this seriousness into downright disgusting optimism. Yes, corporations are big and huge, an entity with the rights of personhood but lacking the person-based ethics of normal interaction. It's impossible to phyiscally destroy, because ultimately, it's made up of ideas. (I'm counting money as an idea in this case.) Whatever they produce, be it a good or service, is due to that original driving idea.

Yet ideas are not invulnerable. Though yes, Dilbert is by no means the rallying cry, an insidious virus taking down companies one cubicle at a time, it at the very least allows those inside the cubicles to begin thinking that this entity they devote energy to is not invulnerable; it can be mocked. A poet called laughter a spontaneous feeling of superiority, when the punchline strikes the brain. At that moment of laughter, the employee feels just a bit larger then Enron, or Microsoft, or whatever. I've been seeing ads in Harpers magazine, a fairly literary and liberal, yet also popular, magazine, that almost politely ask the viewer to review their feelings on corporate actions. A polite question can be so much harder to ignore than a sandwich-board.

Feeling ranty again, auto-rant-suppression kicking in...

I've got to say, Dead Megatron, the God-Mechanism (Deus Ex Machina, anyone?) idea you've got going, for all of the different threads you're pulling, seems like it's got legs. I don't know; I think part of me is just trying to determine what the Internet is really going to mean, beyond allowing people instant access to porn. And, you know, Barbelith. The comic-book lover/poet just

I don't think the Machine God concept is only feasible or perceivable from a corporate standpoint, though. The growing prevalance of linux users, open source software, that kind of thing, would seem to indicate that.

But you're pulling a lot of threads here. You sound as though you are providing a theory or prophecy you've spent a lot of time on, do you have any theories/readings/personal experience to beef up the concept?

(And would you like to perhaps start a thread on it? Maybe ask the rest of us to help flesh out the concept a little?)
 
 
LVX23
06:13 / 20.02.06
DH wrote:

...everything is magic, or at the very least potentially magical. Could putting together a real, honest advertisment, raising money and putting it in a major newspaper or even on TV, with high production values and a message-meme behind it that'll be undebateable, could all of that be considered sympathetic magic...

Yes.

Magick, in the simplest terms, is affecting change in accord with will. Enochian incantations and Thoth divinations are certainly a means to that end but anything that brings mind into matter is an effective tool. When minds were made more of myths and imaginings, rituals and invocations held a lot more drama and power. These days you've got to evolve and adapt, use what's available and speak to people in terms they understand. If you're trying to affect macro-level change and reach a wider audience (as opposed to deeply occulted magickal workings), the technologies of marketing, advertising, networked distributions, etc... are very powerful tools to spread one's will.

We could make a simple categorization and say that magick can be both internal and external. The internal work seeks to go deep within and tap into the all. The external work expands outward reaching the collective to influence the individual. Think of them as meditation and media. Both are means to bring the world in line with will.

As an aside, my idea of successful magick these days? 6+ years of unapologetic, bumbling corporate rule by BushCo, in spite of weekly smoking guns, scandals, and atrocities. They've got a lot of people enrapt in their spells. Or Grant Morrison assuming X-Men and now the new Superman, putting sigils into huge distribution comics and re-engineering such dear American mythologies to include the budding spiritual yearnings and occultural awakenings of the information generations. If your magick makes something happen, influences a single mind, then you've done it right.

I think we all tend to second guess our own understanding of the occult, and we tend to compartmentalize and limit its scope and ability. Magick is a lot more than just Crowley or Pete Carroll or Spare or whatever othe rsystem you're inclined to work within. We work with things we call gods, demons, deities, egregores, servitors, and we assume we can influence them in some way, yet we can't extend this influence to material entities. Do we suspect that deifications are easier to influence because maybe they're not real?

The key, IMHO, is that magick is a human artifact that occurs within the fields of thought and feeling that clothe us all, so anything that buzzes with the glow of emotion and ideation and imagination is ultimately open to magickal influence. A tv show is alive in this respect. A popular song. A machine. A myth. A logo. A corporation. It's all ultimately born of and running in the software of the global mind. It's all mutable and open to influence.

And let's stop assuming that just because someone recommends using magick to influence corporate dominance they therefore 1) think all corporations are evil, 2) don't understand the irony of trying to be anti-corporate while living in the 1st world, or 3) that they don't also employ traditional protest methods for undermining corporate hedgemony in their local sphere of material influence (ie staying away from chains, not supporting factory farming, not inadvertantly advertising for bad corps, giving money to ecological and civil liberties groups, voting well, etc...).

A magickal life is an active life. And it's a colorful life. I think we're all exceedingly far more complex than these measured postings allow us to reveal. The more I interact with people in general, the more i feel simple labels and classifications are foolish inaccuracies at best, and dangerous stereotypes at worst.
 
 
illmatic
08:21 / 20.02.06
What I begin to fear, in my moments of paranoid solitute, is that ther is no efficente weapon against the rule of the big corp, that this is their moment in history, and the best those who would refuse it can do is dig themselves a hole in the ground to, as they say, "weather the storm"

Weirdly, I don't actually disagree with the broad thrust of one of Megatron's posts, well this paragraph, at least. I have some specific issues with it that I'll outline now. Firstly, I realise the problems of, as LVX23 puts it, thinking all corporations are evil and being conscious of "the irony of trying to be anti-corporate while living in the 1st world". Secondly, I'd add that what is currently going on is absolutely no different from what has always gone on throughout history. The rich and powerful have always acculmulated power and manipulated circumstances to their advantage, and those who have suffered from this have always protested against it. the processes we can see at work in gloablisation and the stuggles againsts them are nothing new. Same old story. Though I'd add I realise I'm simplifying historical processes in an incredibly crude way here, and I'm not trying to valorise my meagre actions as as a part of "the struggle" (man) - certainly I benefit hugely from my status as a citizen of the first world.

I'm just trying to point out that any sort of stuggle or protest has always faced huge odds, and seemed impossible. Think of the early struggles against racism, or attempts to build women's movements, early days of the labout movement etc. However, viewed on a long term time scale, decades or centuries, we can see the success of these movements. I think everybody who’s every hoped for a better world has faced moments of despair. That’s no reason not to keep on trying.

Having said that though, the whole AI thing sounds like a bollocks stoner fantasy, the type of thing you dream up after watching The Matrix one too many times. It doesn’t help with our understanding of capitalism, globalisation or anything or this ilk – it simply mystifies these process in a way reminiscent of David Icke. A simplistic fantasty for those who can’t handle thinking about complex issues.
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:49 / 20.02.06
I don't think the Machine God concept is only feasible or perceivable from a corporate standpoint, though. The growing prevalance of linux users, open source software, that kind of thing, would seem to indicate that.

Well, yeah, there's no way to be sure which way it will go at this point. The big-corps sure would like to use the Machine to further their goals, so they are keeping a close watch to its "egg" (metaphorically speaking), but who knows? Maybe it will be brought to life by a bunch of anarchist hackers working in a shed somewhere. Or come from somewhere even more unexpected (it could even be a MMORPG character sudenly realizing it exist, if you want to be pre-teen pop culture about it - like an orc in World of Warcraft going "what the fuck, I think therefore I am"). I do expect it, once it's "born", to rapidly evolve into something way beyond the capacacity of its creators to control or predict. Let's see.

But you're pulling a lot of threads here. You sound as though you are providing a theory or prophecy you've spent a lot of time on, do you have any theories/readings/personal experience to beef up the concept?

Well, that's the thing, i don't think I have enough fuel to actually start a thread on it. I did spend a lot of thinking about it, yes, but my info mostly comes from reading scifi, watching how computers evolve and we grow more and more dependant on them, and how the internet seem to be becoming more and more some sort of human "super-mind" ("super" as in collective, like an ant colony is a "super-organism"). I also tend to see the western zeitgeist as going through several ethos over the millenia. It was originally a feminine ethos, strongly connected to the Earth (pagan religions, "Mother Earth", this kind of thing), then it evolved to a more maculine ethos, more concerned with ethereal things, in the so-called judeo-christian culture. Now it seem to be evolving again, into something all new, something pansexual, a godhead of communication, and the Machine is a possible candidate to fit that description. Hence, my theory.

But still, I have to admit Ilmatic may be too right about that (more right i'd like hir to be, actually), that it may be some adolescent "bollocks stoner fantasy" that doesn't help much. In fact, maybe it's for the best that it is so, isn't it? I just brought it up because I wanted to separate it more cleary from my "stick it to the man" side (which I do have also, but it's a completely different thing).

So, at this point, after having said what I felt I needed to, I'll drop the subject... now

back to the big-corp thing, I just want to say I do live in a third-world nation (hate that term, though), which gives me a good outside view of the big-corp (they are around here too, but not everywhere), and they look creepy. Some of them even behave like true cults, with schools for the staff children, clubs, parks, and parties that only their employees attend, and those who don't are frowned upon and put on top of the "to-fire" list. It can be almost mandatory for them to join the "community", lest they be viewed as anti-social outsiders who do not belong into the fold.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:08 / 20.02.06
Tuna Ghost: I see what you're saying, and if I'm honest I do tend to be rather pessimistic about that sort of thing, maybe unnecessarily so. Bu-u-u-u-t, wouldn't you say that most of the humour in Dilbert is derived from a re-imagining of stock tropes from a modern perspective? The overbearing but none-too-competent boss, the annoying co-worker, the little guy stuck in a big system that is often incomprehensible and usually frustrating--these are all familiar figures, exploited for laughs for pretty much as long as there have been companies. What's changed is mostly the settings and props.
 
 
MrCoffeeBean
11:44 / 20.02.06
it hav ebeen mentioned but the most importan question to ask if your einto anti-corporate magic. What woul dbe the point? Who are you fighting?
Wanna bring corporations in general down? Only "bad Corps."? Only "big Corps." Or is the against the capitalist system? or what you after?
Different magic for different goals... You realy need to know what youre after.

I´ll go for the capitalist system since i think its a very ineffective way of running a society. I dont thonk competion effective at all, i prefer co-operation and collaboration, wich makes me end up in the anarchist socialist approach.

And if your elooking for some kind of conspiracy you dont have to look pretty far, just open up any newspaper and ther they are. They dont even need to hide: WTO, G-8 group and The IMF. If you like the thought of conspiracys i would call them 3 the one.

If you wanna mess with coprs.Inc. the most effective way would proberly be to fuck up the stockmarket. since the whole stockmarket ar ebuild upon roumors, guessing and superstition anyway... well, they claim it to be "laws of economy" but as we all know there isnt such a thing, theres only theorys...
another weak spot in corps. are the board of directors, a company usualy gets shakey if the board keeps changing often...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:06 / 20.02.06
Right! Now I see! What have I been doing with my life for Marx sake!?!?!?

Sorry, comrades, I'll not be around much anymore. I have to go and fuck up the stock market. Shouldn't be too hard, with my D4RQU3 5K1llZ!!11!! and those of My Master and Lord of Teh Magick! All Hail Coffeebean, come to save us from our dull stupid conformity and enslavement to TEH MAN!

See you on the front page, puny sheeple!

Exelsior!

...

Hand me the Kleenex, I've finished.

Whe nwill itg oaw ay? Som eon eplease tel lme?

Ignore button : To the rescue!
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:10 / 20.02.06
Oh, just before I do : Can you, briefly, and with all the owrds grouped in the fashionable manner if at all possible, outline what you anticipate happening once you have crashed and destroyed the stock market and annihilated the evil capitalist system which oppresses you so badly you are able to rant about it like a pre-pubescent only child on your personal computer?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:44 / 20.02.06
If you wanna mess with coprs.Inc. the most effective way would proberly be to fuck up the stockmarket.

A fascinating insight, Mr CB. I'm sure that any minute now you'll be telling us all about the experiences on which this idea is based, including perhaps a case study of the companies you have fucked up thus far. Then, I am entirely certain, you will offer an outline of your plan to fuck up the stockmarket--the techniques and approaches you favour, the nature of the working, damage limitation to protect the innocent in the ensuing chaos, ect.

Others may sneer and mock, but I have perfect faith that everything you propose above is based on solid personal experience and careful analysis of the problems facing the modern world, and is not in any way a stale re-hash of ideas and theories themselves debased by weak understanding and clumsy repetition. I wait with bated breath for your detailed blueprint for a better future.

Party like it's 1999!
 
 
electric monk
12:47 / 20.02.06
...I can see little evidence of damage done to any corporation by Dilbert: it seems more like the sugar coating that makes the pill easier to swallow.

Absolutely. Dilbert actually served as the mascot of the multinational corp where I used to work. They didn't seem to have a problem associating their brand with the Dilbert brand at all, and it was generally assumed at the time that Dilbert's popularity would rub off on the company. I don't think it made one bit of difference in sales one way or the other, and the deal didn't last long, but I can tell you all with certainty that no pointy-haired bosses or bespeckled schlubs haunted anybody's dreams or caused TEH KAOZ in any boardrooms, office or vendor meeting.


My 2cents.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:32 / 20.02.06
Perhaps another role to consider, which takes alot more confidence than social engineering is that of the Agent provocateur.
 
 
illmatic
15:19 / 20.02.06
I actually took part in a group ritual to take down the stock market. It was fun at the time, but it didn't work.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:33 / 20.02.06
Noticed that. The Not-Working part.

But, it looks like you missed the main mark and accidentally hit Unwins! The Wine Merchant!

Now, when the Revolution comes, the after party will be really boring, and totally clean & sober. Goddamn Discordian Anarchy!
 
 
electric monk
15:46 / 20.02.06
Ill, if you tell us more about that ritual I'll tell about my Invocation of a Corporate Egregore, which was also less than spectacular.
 
 
illmatic
16:28 / 20.02.06
It was a good few years ago (seven?), and I'm not sure if I can recall all the details properly. I remember it involved robes, a flashing strobe, lots of incense. The symbolic action that was linked to the intend was pretending to be a panicked stock broker, the frenzy increasing as the rite went on. The intention was to capitalise on existing instabliites (which were in the news at the time), make them worse, and then ride the changes to increased prosperity (that didn't work either). I remember this upset the more chaotically inclined in the group at the time, who thought we should just stick in to the man bigtime and fuck the consquences.

Mordant, I come to join you in the embarassing corner. Is there a hat we should wear?
 
 
illmatic
16:31 / 20.02.06
I might try and dig out my diary to see if I can find the entry, if there is one. There's no f***ing way that's getting posted on here though!
 
 
LVX23
16:33 / 20.02.06
Beating up Mr. Coffee aside...

However, viewed on a long term time scale, decades or centuries, we can see the success of these movements.

Yes, tending the light. Just put the energy (and actions) out there and hope that you're doing your part to edge humanity towards greater harmony and self-awareness. Sometimes results are a long ways off. Your seemingly small actions today might be the embyo of future revolutions... [I'm skirting a bit of non-linear aetheric dynamics here].
 
 
illmatic
16:43 / 20.02.06
Indeed, LVX. This is exactly what I was trying to get at with my comments to Megatron's post. It sort of seems too easy just to give up, no matter how apathy-inducing circumstances are. This is vry much what NLP link at the top of the page is about. In NLP terms, this is a "reframe", and as such is a bit of magick worth knowing about.
 
 
electric monk
18:13 / 20.02.06
Get another hat ready over there.

So, yeah, working for huge MegaCorp and decided that maybe I should try to get in touch with the Corporate egregore thingy and see if I could ease my path thru the behemoth. I collected all the printed materials and official releases I could. Catalogs, magazine ads, financial reports, etc. Also had my badge from work to wear during the ceremony and I think my coffee cup from work served as the Cup. I had candles in the Corp's trademark colors and a recording of me vibrating the Corp's mantra-ized catchphrase to be played on a loop. Also had a large wooden bowl and a pair of scissors. The idea was to communicate with the entity by making a cut-up message from it's usual tools of communication. I remember working myself into a good headstate with the mantra and just chopping wildly at words and letters and numbers. When I came down, about two hours had passed and I had about four pages of 10x13 drawing paper filled with the message I had received. I spent the next week trying to decipher it and found it was pretty much unreadable to me. Only the beginning bit and end bit had anything near a readable message to me: "Business outlook for the 3rd tour victory [Corp name] you won't find it viewable" and "In recycled products our low price confidence our files not included" which I read as "You just haven't earned it yet, baby."
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:45 / 20.02.06
Bu-u-u-u-t, wouldn't you say that most of the humour in Dilbert is derived from a re-imagining of stock tropes from a modern perspective?

Yes and no. I'm not sure that's a problem, though.

The overbearing but none-too-competent boss, the annoying co-worker, the little guy stuck in a big system that is often incomprehensible and usually frustrating--these are all familiar figures, exploited for laughs for pretty much as long as there have been companies. What's changed is mostly the settings and props.

But the settings and props are very familiar to a lot of people, so much so they see distinct parrallels in their own lives.

In the strip there's a strong message of "the people in charge don't know what they're doing, and here's how that will manifest itself", and the signs given are things everyone working in a large corporation will recognize. Dilbert's company is usually not doing well, and the blame lies not just on the wide field of annoying co-workers, but on the incompetent and generally uncaring authority. For a company that isn't doing well these may be very unwelcome obsevations, especially given that they are so very accurate. Or so countless fan mail has lead Scott Adams to believe, anyway. Personally I have never been in a board room.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:59 / 20.02.06
I guess,in the end, the Dilbert cartoon, is not a weapon against toe big corp lifestyle, but it is a good way to measure your involvment in it. If you find it funny, you're one of the cubicle people. If you hate it, you're one of the pointed-gair bosses (or maybe even a wally) of the company. If you don't care about it one way or the other, you're probably in the clear from it.

Anyway, as anything that provokes laughter, it is a cathartic ritual to read dilbert. But, is it good for "the revolution" to have a catharsis? Anciente greeks used theater for two reason: teach moral values to the people, and let them vent their frustations. But, if they do vent their frustrations, they loose the will to cause civil unrest, thus perpetuating the status-quo. The same can be applied for the corp-minions: if they let their frustration subside through humor, they would endure corporate bullshit much longer without taking action. Perhaps it would be better to keep them angry...

this thread is rapidly mutating from a Temple thradto a Switchboard thread, don't you people think?
 
 
illmatic
19:32 / 20.02.06
Not really, no. Switchboard threads tend to be strictly real world focused.

Interesting account, Monk BTW. Have you ever read Steven Mace's stuff?
 
 
Sam T.
19:42 / 20.02.06
I've been following this thread for a while, and it's very interesting.

Just a theorical question to all:

*Assuming unlimited power to make things happen, what would you do to change the world?

More exactly, what would be the smallest thing you should strike, or change, to topple the whole thing upside down with maximum benefit to all?

Things like crashing the stock market, effecting global hardcore climate change and such... Why not, but it looks useless because it won't very much change anything at all.

It's the Fight Club option: destroy the civilization to save the planet. Back to the trees. The very last thing to do, when everything else has failed.

What do you think? Any ideas? Is there any weakness in the system that you have identified? Or is a global change in consciousness the only thing that would do the trick?
 
 
Digital Hermes
02:27 / 21.02.06
{Threadrot}

Anciente greeks used theater for two reason: teach moral values to the people, and let them vent their frustations. But, if they do vent their frustrations, they loose the will to cause civil unrest, thus perpetuating the status-quo.

I'd have to jump in here and disagree again. Greek theatre grew out of Greek religion, when instead of just saying 'Zeus said to Poseidon,' they wore masks, assumed the name of the god, and Zeus spoke to Poseidon to the local theatre-goers. (Who were in essence also worshippers.) So yes to the moral values, in the same fashion that any religion does that, but not so much as a form of social control. At least, not overtly and conciously by those in the power structure.

{/Threadrot}
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:34 / 21.02.06
Things like crashing the stock market, effecting global hardcore climate change

Two things which don't necessarily run together. Destroying the economic infrastructure of "teh eval capitolism" could, in theory, do even more damage to the environment.
 
 
Sam T.
11:46 / 21.02.06
Destroying the economic infrastructure of "teh eval capitolism" could, in theory, do even more damage to the environment.

Frankly, I don't know. You may be right. I was just trying to give example of some desperate last chance moves.

What seems to be just round the corner anyway is some drastic climate change, which will impact greatly the economic infrastructure of the globalized capitalism. I think that this may relieve the ecological pressure which is put on the planet as of now. If you think it won't, I'll greatly appreciate you to tell me why.

(Another possibility is oil running out suddenly, it doesn't seems too improbable either. We may even have the two happens at roughly the same time)
 
  

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