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Help America Recount!

 
  

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Nobody's girl
14:04 / 26.11.04
Ohio recount update.

Recount efforts in Ohio by Kerry intensify

A top-ranking official with Democratic Senator John Kerry's presidential campaign told North County News last week that although unlikely, there is a recount effort being waged that could unseat Republican President George W. Bush.

"We have 17,000 lawyers working on this, and the grassroots accountability couldn't be any higher -no (irregularity) will go unchecked. Period," Kerry spokesman David Wade said.

A verbal firestorm erupted last week between an area supporter of independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader and Wade after the Kerry spokesman derided Nader for creating a "phony wedge issue between progressives."

Nader has been calling on Kerry and his vice presidential running mate, Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, to, in his words, "follow through on their post-election promise to the American people to make sure every vote counts, starting in Ohio."

A Kerry victory in Ohio means he would have the necessary electoral votes to take the White House.

The local Nader supporter, Don DeBar, an Ossining resident, took umbrage with Wade's remarks.

"It seems to me the (wedge) was created when Kerry, after promising to ensure that every vote would count, conceded before they were counted," DeBar, who worked for the Nader campaign in San Antonio during the ballot access drive, wrote in an e-mail message to Wade.

The Kerry spokesman said, so far, "there hasn't been any indication" of swinging a state or the overall election.

"…But we'll make sure every single vote is counted," he added.

Nader press secretary Kevin Zeese said "I'm laughing," after being informed of Wade's remark about creating a wedge issue.

"They used those same 17,000 lawyers to keep us off the ballots," Zeese said during a telephone interview.

Wade said Nader "should be working with Democrats to guarantee the right to vote is protected."

During a flurry of e-mail exchanges with Wade, DeBar said, "What about the concession? If there are sufficient indicia of fraud and/or inaccurate counting, will Kerry 'unconcede'?"

Former Vice President Al Gore conceded in his 2000 battle with Bush for the White House before demanding recounts, which were ultimately halted by the United States Supreme Court.

Two third-party presidential candidates have raised enough money to file for an official recount of the vote in Ohio.

Green Party candidate David Cobb announced Monday the $113,600 needed to file for a recount had been raised.

"Thanks to the thousands of people who have contributed to this effort, we can say with certainty that there will be a recount in Ohio," Cobb said in a statement.

The Green Party has been working with the Libertarian Party - both parties were on the ballot in Ohio - in securing a recount. Both Cobb and Libertarian Michael Badnarik say they've demanded that Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican who co-chaired this year's Bush campaign in Ohio, recuse himself from the recount process.

Cobb Media Director Blair Bobier said, "The Ohio presidential election was marred by numerous press and independent reports of mismarked and discarded ballots, problems with electronic voting machines and the targeted disenfranchisement of African-American voters."

The Ohio vote will be certified on Dec. 3 at the latest, Bobier said.

The Electoral College votes on December 13, so it is unclear whether or not a recount would be completed by then.

However, Jonathan Turley, a professor of constitutional law at George Washington University, told WorldNetDaily.com that "those votes are not opened by Congress until Jan. 6. So there is still time to challenge the results in Ohio."

A demand for a recount in Ohio can only be filed by a presidential candidate who was either a certified write-in candidate or on the ballot in that state.

Bush won Ohio by a vote of 2,796,147 to John Kerry's 2,659,664. Despite reports of irregularities and outstanding provisional ballots, Kerry conceded Ohio and the election on November 3.

In the 11 Ohio counties that have finished checking provisional ballots cast in the presidential election, 81 percent have turned out to be valid. It is too early to know whether the ballots have benefited Bush or Kerry because counties first need to determine their validity before conducting the count.

Badnarik received 14,331 votes in Ohio and Cobb, as a write-in candidate, received 24 votes.

When asked about how the Kerry campaign has reacted to Nader's efforts, Zeese said, "You've got the closest thing to a response," referring to the comments made by Wade to North County News.

According to a November 5 article by the Associated Press, elections officials admitted that an error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct. Franklin County reported Bush with 4,258 votes and John Kerry with 260, even though only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Election officials in that county now say a cartridge from a voting machine generated errors after the precinct closed, and only 365 people voted for Bush, Nader notes in a press release.

Additional machine errors in Ohio reported by VotersUnite.org, include:

• Mahoning County: The glass on top of one electronic screen was too far from the screen, making it difficult for people to use their fingers to cast ballots. A screen went blank on a Youngstown voter while he cast his ballot.

• Mahoning County: 20 to 30 machines needed to be recalibrated during the voting process because some votes for a candidate were being counted for that candidate's opponent.

• Mahoning County: About a dozen machines needed to be reset because they essentially froze.

• Cincinnati: Problems with punch card voting machines delayed the start of voting for up to an hour Tuesday morning at a suburban precinct. Voters were unable to slide their punch-card ballots all the way into any of the six voting machines that had all evidently been damaged in transit.

• Columbus: Overcharged batteries on Danaher Controls ELECTronic 1242 systems kept machines from booting up properly at the beginning of the day.

The resulting delays, combined with higher voter turnout, resulted in lines of several hours, in one case 22 hours, and led to some citizens' voting rights being taken away by administrative default, Nader contends.

The situation in Ohio and other states bears out, according to Nader, what he warned against before the election.

Among them:

Computers are inherently subject to programming error, equipment malfunction and malicious tampering.

Paperless electronic voting machines make it impossible to safeguard the integrity of the vote.

"However, the Democratic National Committee has remained silent on the issue since Election Day," Nader's press release states. "Neither the DNC web site nor the Ohio Democratic Party site offered any response or any advice to voters on where to turn."

"With the extensive pre-election effort to prevent election fraud, including international observers, activist poll watchers and attempts to enforce paper trail backups, the Democratic Party's silence on Ohio is puzzling," Nader stated.

Regardless of whether it changes the outcome, the release continues, the Democrats should follow through on their promise to make sure every vote counts in Ohio and other states discovering similar problems with electronic voting machines and other irregularities.

Other trouble spots exist in Ohio, including rules that allow officials to reject some of the 155,000 provisional ballots being cast in that state, Nader states.

Before Election Day, Blackwell, the Republican who co-chaired Bush's statewide campaign, was challenged by voters-rights organizations for denying citizens their voting rights on the basis of a rule, later rescinded, requiring voter registration forms be printed on 80-pound paper stock.

Voter registration forms were submitted on newsprint in Cuyahoga County after being printed in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Blackwell is also accused of trying to suppress the registration of poor and minority voters who most often vote Democrat.

"Our offices are being flooded with faxes and e-mails asking for assistance in resolving these irregularities - a lot of them are citizens who voted for you," Nader says in a direct challenge to Kerry and Edwards.

"In the spirit of good government, I urge you to make this effort now," Nader concluded.

Kerry, in Zeese's mind, should be more direct.

"Kerry should say: 'I was serious about counting every vote," Zeese said. "'The reports of problems on Election Day raise serious questions that need to be fully reviewed. I am instructing my lawyers to provide support to those urging review of the vote count and my campaign is available to work in any way to make sure the vote count is accurate.'"

Nader drew roughly one percent of the vote nationally. He held a press conference last Wednesday and said he was speaking out for the "thousands" of American voters asking for recounts and not on his own behalf.

"Over 2,000 citizens including voting rights advocates are urging in writing the Nader Camejo campaign to help make sure every vote is counted and counted accurately," Nader remarked. "The Nader Camejo campaign does not view the election to be over merely because concession speeches, which have no legal effect, have been given. Rather they are over when every vote is counted and legally certified."

"Striking inconsistencies exist between the vote as reported on the AccuVote Diebold Machines and exit polls and voting trends in New Hampshire," he added. "These irregularities in the reported vote count favor president George W. Bush by five to 15 percent over what was expected."

"Problems in these electronic voting machines and optical scanners are being reported in machines in a variety of states," Nader said.

New Hampshire is about to become a test case for the accuracy of optical scan vote-counting machines because Nader has asked for a recount.

The request covers 11 of the state's 126 precincts that use Diebold Inc.'s Accuvote optical scanning machines to count paper ballots. Depending on the results, his campaign could ask for recounts in other states, Zeese said Monday.

Nader doesn't expect to change the outcome: In New Hampshire, Kerry defeated Bush, 50 percent to 49 percent, while Nader got less than 1 percent from the state's 301 precincts.

Lawyers with John Kerry's presidential campaign are gathering information from Ohio election boards about uncounted ballots and other unresolved issues from last week's election, according to a Plain Dealer article published last Thursday.

Although Wade suggested a recount has no real chance of turning the election in Kerry's favor, bloggers and liberal talk radio show hosts have speculated the senator was allowing grassroots candidates and campaigns to take up the fight so Kerry can appear statesmanlike and above the fray.

Conservative radio commentators, conversely, are dismissing the recount efforts.

"What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, are spam e-mail campaigns spreading conspiracy theories and rumors generating hard news investigations on the old media networks," Rush Limbaugh said during his radio program on November 12.

Others, however, have complained that the mainstream media have failed to cover the story adequately.

MSNBC's Keith Olbermann has covered the story aggressively on his Countdown program, as have liberal radio talk show hosts on Air America.

"There has been a justifiable uproar about the major differences between the exit

polls in Ohio and Florida and the actual results," writes Sheldon Drobny, a CPA and venture capitalist and co-founder of Air America Radio.

"Democrats and Republicans, who both saw the same exit polls that showed an electoral landslide in favor of Kerry, have confirmed this," he continued. "It is important that people know how accurate random sampling of historical events can be in order for them to understand how unlikely it is that the exit polls were wrong."

"We have a Watergate story here that could give the media a post-election explosive news story that could make the 2000 Florida vote debacle look like small potatoes," Drobny concluded.

DeBar stressed a concession was not legally binding. He also believes a "Constitutional crisis" is about to erupt.

"What he should do is call a national press conference, recite each and every case of apparent fraud and or error that could bear on the outcome," DeBar said. "(Kerry) should remind voters strongly of the 2000 theft of Florida…he should redefine the results, and then redefine himself as someone worthy of challenging them. And he should go to the mat, both legally and politically."

"Call a million-voter rally in D.C, or, better, simultaneously in (New York), D.C, (Boston), L.A., (San Francisco), Cleveland, (Chicago), etc…Hey, maybe there really were only 51 (million) that voted for Kerry and 53 (million) that vote for Bush. Let's see our 51 million in the streets. Better, let Bush and Cheney see 'em."
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:41 / 26.11.04
This is a graph showing the swing to Bush from previously reliable exit polling data to the "official" poll results.


From this article.
 
 
Nobody's girl
19:46 / 29.11.04
Kerry supports full vote investigation in Ohio.

"John Kerry supports a “full investigation” into voting irregularities in Ohio, Rev. Jesse Jackson said Saturday, during a teleconference with media regarding a recount and legal challenge of the Nov. 2 vote."

"All of these trends – plus the fact that the Bush victory did not jibe with at least two non-partisan exit polls taken on Election Day in Ohio – are behind Jesse Jackson’s trip to the state today, Sunday, Nov. 28.

Jackson will visit Columbus and Cincinnati to meet with voters, civil rights activists, ministers and others who are working for a full accounting of the Ohio presidential vote. Jackson said he hoped to coordinate these activities and his organization, Rainbow-PUSH, would join litigation seeking to challenge Bush’s alleged victory at the state Supreme Court.

Jackson also joined the call by many, from Common Cause to the Green and Libertarian Parties, for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell to recuse himself from tallying the state’s presidential election result, because he was co-chair of the Bush-Cheney re-election team in Ohio.

“We need to investigate, coordinate, litigate, recount and recuse," he said, referring to the legitimacy of the Ohio vote. “Mr. Blackwell cannot be both the owner of the team and the umpire.” "
 
 
Nobody's girl
03:12 / 30.11.04
How to take back a stolen election.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:34 / 01.12.04
This is interesting, got this in my email today, regarding the governor race in Washington state, still undecided due to a close call:

-----

Dear Democratic Supporter,

I need your immediate help. You've probably heard about the extremely close race for governor here in Washington. Only 42 votes separate my opponent and me, and thousands of ballots across the state haven't been counted.

This is by far the closest race in the history of our state, and one of the closest the nation has ever seen. That means we must make sure that every single legitimate ballot has been counted -- and that means a statewide manual recount of every vote.

Washington state law requires the party requesting the recount to pay for it, and it will cost at least $750,000. The Democratic Party is committed to this recount, but they need your immediate donation today to make it happen. Please give today.

https://www.democrats.org/support/

Let me put this race in a little more perspective. Out of nearly 3 million votes cast, only 42 votes separate my Republican opponent and me. That's a difference of 0.0014 percent. The error for voting machines is somewhere between 1 and 2 percent, or 1,000 times as great as the vote difference.

That means that this race is tied, and anything is possible with a manual recount. We must count every vote individually, and we can't do it without you.

------
 
 
diz
18:52 / 01.12.04
i don't know how to feel about this. i think that any idea that voter fraud which may be uncovered and exposed would actually be covered by the mass media, much less actually impact the political process, is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. Gore won more votes in Florida in 2000, but that's a footnote at best. at worst, the contrary assertion is repeated unchallenged as fact. it was over the moment Kerry conceded, and even the majority of Kerry supporters will treat any fraud which may be uncovered as delusional conspiracy theory. whether or not there was fraud doesn't really matter anymore in that sense.

so... where does that leave us?

the optimistic scenario is that Bush actually did get more votes, and he should have won, fair and square. in that scenario, we just live in a country dominated by idiots.

the pessimistic scenario is that Bush cheated, because if he did cheat, he's already gotten away with it. if he did cheat, we're really fucked, because whether we can prove it or not, no one's going to believe us. "Bush stole the 2004 election" already has the credibility level of "the Moon landings were filmed in a movie studio," and that's not going to change in any realistic scenario.

what that would mean, frankly, is that there's been a coup, and no one knows it.

i fervently pray that John Kerry legitimately lost the election.
 
 
Nobody's girl
20:57 / 01.12.04
whether or not there was fraud doesn't really matter anymore in that sense.

Wrong. It matters. It's just that you've all been totally disempowered so you think- "Well what's the point in fighting for our democracy the whole thing's fucked anyway."

Fuck the media, fuck the "Democratic" party and especially fuck the lying and cheating manipulators who stole the pitiful amount of power the state deigns to share with you. Are you happy to let these people fuck you over because it's less painful if you don't fight it? I guarantee you that if this is not challenged NOW, that's it. Lights out. Enjoy your newly appointed King, peons.

Do you sincerely believe that if you just let it slide this time it wont happen again? Did you miss the whole Florida 2000 thing? In a coma or something? It will only get more and more difficult to fix the longer you procrastinate addressing the multitude of serious problems in your voting system.

the optimistic scenario is that Bush actually did get more votes, and he should have won, fair and square. in that scenario, we just live in a country dominated by idiots.

Oh sure, it's really easy if you can just blame those idiots. "Nothing to do with me, mate." I think this is why a lot of people are so resistant to this election scandal. It's so much easier to blame the assholes and do nothing than to actually investigate these fraud allegations and fix the faulty system.

the pessimistic scenario is that Bush cheated, because if he did cheat, he's already gotten away with it. if he did cheat, we're really fucked

Well, yes.

Have you visited any of the the links in this thread? Have you watched the video on votergate.tv? I no longer understand what constitutes enough proof for cause for concern with you people. The sheer incompetence of this election alone would be cause enough for me to want serious investigation and rehaul of the entire system.

because whether we can prove it or not, no one's going to believe us. "Bush stole the 2004 election" already has the credibility level of "the Moon landings were filmed in a movie studio," and that's not going to change in any realistic scenario.

Why not? In the face of so much credible evidence, why not? Is it at all possible that agenda setting is being practised by the media here?

You know how you fight agenda setting? You spread the word amongst everyone you know and you don't quit talking about it. Refuse to accept the label conspiracy theorist- ask everyone who asserts that you are how they know the election was fair. They'll waffle on about being a bad loser, being unable to accept defeat, blah, blah, blah. I've yet to hear an argument for accepting this election result that does not involve defeatism and name-calling. Neither name-calling or defeatism is an acceptable argument for lying down and taking this bullshit.
 
 
Peach Pie
22:32 / 01.12.04
Does Ganesh have an opinion on this?
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
10:42 / 02.12.04
Secret Goldfish, if you have nothing to add on the subject of recounts, I'd cordially and strongly advise you not to go any further with that line of questioning in this particular thread...
 
 
Ganesh
11:15 / 02.12.04
It may well be a neutral question, HK. I'm not sufficiently up on the stuff Nobody's Girl's linked to in this thread to have formed an opinion worth posting. So no.
 
 
Peach Pie
12:05 / 02.12.04
Ganesh/Hattie, why is this a sensitive question?

Strong advice followed by '...' is always going to be too intriguing to resist a follow-up ...

Nobody's girl - what are your sources?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:36 / 02.12.04
What Hattie is asking, SG, is, I believe, "why are you interested to know what Ganesh thinks about this?" Ze suspects your motives may be ignoble, in which case ze has recommended you walk away. Personally, I'm a bit bewildered. Are you suggesting that Nobody's Girl should speak to a psychiatrist?
 
 
diz
12:54 / 02.12.04
Why not? In the face of so much credible evidence, why not?

look. polls generally place the number of people in the US who believe that Oswald acted alone between 15-30%. most of the prevalent JFK conspiracy theories involve the government in some role.

in other words, whether it's true or not, most people in this country believe that the CIA or other elements of the US government most likely assassinated the duly elected President of the United States and got away with it.

have you ever seen one march on Langley demanding the truth?

i mean, in a functional democracy, if most people thought that rogue elements of the government had assassinated the President, you would think that that would be Issue #1 for approximately forever, that voters on all sides would demand that Washington DC be turned upside down and shaken until the truth came out. you'd think that the fact that the voters believe that a political faction probably murdered the head of state for political advantage and getting away with it for 40 years would be a big deal, but it's just not.

most historians believe that the Gulf of Tonkin incident of April 4, 1964, which essentially began full-scale war between the US and North Vietnam, either did not happen the way the Johnson administration said it did or that it never actually happened at all. in other words, that the Vietnam War, one of the ugliest and most divisive wars in US history, was started on a lie.

how often does that come up?

during the Iran-Contra hearings, Oliver North testified in front of Congress that he had, essentially, lied to Congress, broken US law, and engaged in arms deals with terrorist organizations (the Contras) and known state sponsors of terrorism (Iran) in violation of US law.

who came out of the scandal with the most popular support? Oliver North.

i understand your anger, but if you think that vote fraud in Ohio is going to be the magic bullet that shocks America awake, you're crazy. the American people have ignored bigger things than this, and, perversely, the more numerous the awful things they are confronted with are, the more determined they seem to be to keep on ignoring them.

if John Kerry had gone to the podium at the Democratic National Convention and said that, once he was in office, he was going to demand the truth about the conspiracy behind the JFK assassination, the majority of people in this country would dismiss him as a crazy extremist for believing in "conspiracy theory" even though they themselves also believed in said "conspiracy theory".

i don't claim to fully understand it, but belief isn't necessarily based on reason and facts. you're not going to change anyone's mind by presenting them with the facts. you're just going to discredit yourself, and that will hang like an albatross around your neck with any other political work that you do.

believe what you want about what happened in this election, but tuck it in next to your heart and move on. don't go shouting about it, because people will actively refuse to believe you. they will belittle the messenger because the message is too huge and too awful to handle. you can use it to motivate you, but you have to frame your political arguments in terms people will not reject out of hand.

let's look at an example from the other side: how much of the right-wing Christian base is motivated by the belief that they live in the End Times? that the increasing visibility of gays is part of the tide of wickedness predicted in Revelation? that the UN and the moves towards a global community are preparing the way for the rise of Antichrist?

how much do you want to bet that Bush and a lot of his administration believe the same things? but they never come out and say it, because that would be crazy. they understand that the majority of the voters "aren't ready to hear that yet." they frame it in sociological terms, in political terms, etc., and speak in code to the people "in the know."

we can learn a lot from that. the people aren't ready to hear what you have to say yet, and as such we only damage ourselves by saying it, even if it's true.

Is it at all possible that agenda setting is being practised by the media here?

sure. if you have a plan to break the corporate mass media monopoly, and their ongoing, decades-long collusion with the two major parties to control the terrain of political debate in this country, i'm all ears.
 
 
Peach Pie
13:31 / 02.12.04
What Hattie is asking, SG, is, I believe, "why are you interested to know what Ganesh thinks about this?" Ze suspects your motives may be ignoble, in which case ze has recommended you walk away.

Haus - I know Ganesh from another board, where Esau announced his move to John Kerry's estate, so as far as I know, it's no secret. I'm bewildered myself that Hattie or anyone else is suspicious that I have an agenda. I'm interested to know what he thinks is all.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
14:24 / 02.12.04
Don't want to derail the thread any more than I have done - SG, PM on its way...
 
 
Nobody's girl
15:39 / 02.12.04
Nobody's girl - what are your sources?

I have cited my sources all throughout this thread, I suggest you go back and read them.

Diz:

I see your point, really I do. I just think that capitulation is not the answer. So what if close minded people wont listen to you?

if you think that vote fraud in Ohio is going to be the magic bullet that shocks America awake, you're crazy.

I don't think it is, but I still think it's valuable work. Just because nobody's paying attention doesn't mean something can't be achieved. I'm not fooling myself that the recounts will necessarily change the outcome of the election but they will send a message that this fraud will not pass unnoticed.

don't go shouting about it, because people will actively refuse to believe you. they will belittle the messenger because the message is too huge and too awful to handle. you can use it to motivate you, but you have to frame your political arguments in terms people will not reject out of hand.

Why can't I shout about it? What's wrong with being outraged at this? It is an outrageous state of affairs, is it not? I have become frustrated throughout this thread because I believe I have given a great deal of evidence of voter fraud, or at the very least serious cause for concern and people who clearly haven't looked into it just dismiss it out of hand. I believe that political laziness is driving this dissmissive attitude, which I also find outrageous.

sure. if you have a plan to break the corporate mass media monopoly, and their ongoing, decades-long collusion with the two major parties to control the terrain of political debate in this country, i'm all ears.

I answered that in the post you are discussing, go back and read the last paragraph. I'm under no illusions that I personally could ever break the media monpoly, that's why I'm posting in this thread and telling everyone I know about it. Word of mouth is a media that these monopolies cannot control, and word of mouth has become a sight more powerful since the prevalence of the internet.
 
 
Ganesh
01:06 / 03.12.04
Haus - I know Ganesh from another board, where Esau announced his move to John Kerry's estate, so as far as I know, it's no secret. I'm bewildered myself that Hattie or anyone else is suspicious that I have an agenda. I'm interested to know what he thinks is all.

Secret Goldfish: I no longer post on Cross+Flame - and even when I did, I was not privy to everything my partner posted (as 'Esau'). We may be horrendously co-dependent but we're not actually the same organism. Our opinions may differ; what he thinks and I think may differ. In this case, I have very little idea what you're talking about - and, as I've already stated, I'm undecided on this.
 
 
Peach Pie
11:26 / 03.12.04
Well, I'm sorry that C+F has lost your talents.
 
 
Ganesh
12:02 / 03.12.04
Erm, because you appear to be making reference to comments my partner posted elsewhere, apparently in the expectation that I'll know what you're talking about. That's why.

*shrugs*

Rest assured if I do have an opinion, I'll generally post it.

Derailment over. Apologies, folks.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:48 / 03.12.04
>> Bush's Ohio Win Was Closer Than Thought

6 minutes ago (4:45 pm)
Yahoo News
December 3, 2004

By JOHN SEEWER, Associated Press Writer

TOLEDO, Ohio - President Bush (news - web sites)'s victory over John Kerry (news - web sites) in Ohio was closer than the unofficial election night totals showed, but the change is not enough to trigger an automatic recount, according to county-by-county results provided to The Associated Press on Friday.

Bush's margin of victory in the state that put him over the top in his re-election bid will be about 119,000 votes — smaller than the unofficial margin of 136,000, the county election board figures showed. That means Kerry drew closer by about 17,000 votes.

The margin shrank primarily because of the addition of provisional ballots that were not counted on Election Day and were not included in the unofficial tally. Overseas ballots also were added to the count in all 88 counties.

Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell will certify the results Monday.

The president's margin of victory was about 2 percent, not close enough to require an automatic recount. That happens only when the difference is 0.25 percent or less.

Bush beat Kerry nationally by 3 percentage points.

Out of 156,977 provisional ballots checked, 121,598 were pronounced valid and were accepted, meaning about one in five was thrown out, according to an AP tabulation. Provisional voters are cast when poll workers cannot immediately confirm if a voter was properly registered.

How many provisional ballots were cast for Bush and how many were cast for Kerry were not known, because most county election boards did not break down the votes that way. Most boards combined provisional ballots with overseas ballots and those cast on Election Day, then counted the entire batch to reach their final tallies.

The Kerry campaign and two third-party candidates are seeking a recount in Ohio. The Green and Libertarian parties said they have raised enough money to cover the cost. The Kerry campaign said it is not disputing the outcome of the presidential race but wants to make sure any recount is "done accurately and completely."

A hearing on the recount request began in federal court in Columbus on Friday afternoon.

The narrowing of Bush's margin only increases the possibility that the election results could be changed, the Green Party said. "Who knows what else will turn up when we examine the discarded ballots?" Green spokesman Blair Bobier asked.

-----
 
 
Nobody's girl
17:57 / 05.12.04
Democratic Representative John Conyers, Jr. of Michigan, ranking Minority member of the House Judiciary Committee, will hold a hearing on Wednesday 08 December 2004 to investigate allegations of vote fraud and irregularities in Ohio during the 2004 Presidential election. The hearing is slated to begin at 10:00 a.m. EST in the Rayburn House Office Building in Washington DC.

Full story.
 
 
alas
22:38 / 13.12.04
My daughter is going to be a recount monitor in our county, for the recount which begins on Wednesday. I'll try to get her to post about what she's heard about voter fraud in Ohio, if I can...
 
 
---
00:04 / 14.12.04
Nobody's Girl, I just came across this aswell whilst searching around on the net.

It's unreal to think that this actually happened.
 
 
---
00:39 / 14.12.04
i understand your anger, but if you think that vote fraud in Ohio is going to be the magic bullet that shocks America awake, you're crazy. the American people have ignored bigger things than this, and, perversely, the more numerous the awful things they are confronted with are, the more determined they seem to be to keep on ignoring them.

Yes which leads to the question : What the fuck will it take? When it comes down to it it's fear. Fear of losing everything in a fight for something that might not even turn out in your favour. It's much easier to let pride pass by when you've got your house, job, money and the things you've bought as a replacement. (of course you already know this. I'm not trying to make you look stupid here, I know that you already know)

Of course people have kids, families to think of aswell. I'm not saying that this is easy, but somewhere it's going to have to happen, and the more people there are like Nobody's Girl, the better, because the past things that have gone unaccounted for are beginning to look like a noose around the neck of America, and when it comes down to it, it's never going to be easy to fight, but the more people that are saying things/leading us to information the easier and more worthwhile it is.

This is how they do it, obviously : anyone who won't shut up about the recount, the faked wars, the assassination of Kennedy, must be crazy. The people fighting for the truth are crazy. Just sit back, watch TV and grab some food to eat. Relax as the whole place goes up in flames.

What I'm saying is that if the general awareness doesn't rise then we are fucked, and it's people like Nobody's Girl and whoever else is out there fighting and following these threads of truth that are going to be the people we turn to if this ever does really start off on a big scale.

Now's the time to start building and adding to these efforts, so that if this hasn't been sorted by the time of the next election, these deluded fucking wannabes really don't have any options left.
 
 
diz
15:34 / 16.12.04
Why can't I shout about it? What's wrong with being outraged at this? It is an outrageous state of affairs, is it not?

yes, of course it is. however, if you have any other political goals you might want to accomplish in addition to this one, you need to save your ammo and your credibility. Republicans win because they're less apt to blow their political capital on idealistic crusades that don't have a snowball's chance in hell of actually changing anything.

Yes which leads to the question : What the fuck will it take?

nothing. there's nothing that can be done on this front other than writing them off.

What I'm saying is that if the general awareness doesn't rise then we are fucked, and it's people like Nobody's Girl and whoever else is out there fighting and following these threads of truth that are going to be the people we turn to if this ever does really start off on a big scale.

the general awareness is not going to rise, we're already fucked, and it has already started off on a big scale. we are living in the end of America as we know it, and if there was ever a point where we could have done something about it, the time is long since past. the forces of the other side are too entrenched, people are too invested in the current infrastructure, ignorance is too widespread to cure effectively with the political leverage we have, the debts are too big. America is over.

which, frankly, is for the best. America as we know it had a lot of nice bits about it, but many of those have been copied and improved upon elsewhere, and the bad parts are truly obscene.

not to say that America won't resurge, and probably within our lifetime, after the collapse of the oil economy and the wave of bankruptcies and most likely a major Depression. but it won't be the America we know, and odds are that's probably a good thing.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:30 / 29.12.04
Kerry preparing to unconcede? Anyone know whether Break For News is any good? A front page with what looks like a bit of Chris Achilliosisname fantasy art stuck in it...
 
 
Hieronymus
17:41 / 29.12.04
I've not seen it in any other reputable press outlets, Our Lady.

It is kind of odd they decided to use that particular picture of him emerging from a pool to the exclusion of all his other photos. Reminded me slightly of that scene of Willard emerging from the water in Apocalypse Now.



Very weird choice.
 
 
Hieronymus
23:35 / 03.01.05
So the 'election fraud' debacle has made it to the DailyKos website.

And all I say in response is a-fucking-men. Can we get past the navel gazing and get to the business of actually winning for a change?
 
 
Nobody's girl
12:27 / 04.01.05
Happy new year everybody!
I am returned from my holidays in Ohio where I was almost totally out of the loop, newswise. I say almost because I caught an interesting press conference on C-Span 2 detailing plans for protesting the inauguration, the speaker I found most interesting, and quite impassioned, came from ReDefeatBush.com
 
 
Nobody's girl
13:13 / 04.01.05
Ah, this is probably a more useful link, it has a link to the video of the C-Span press conference. I'm intrigued by a link to a clip on Hannity and Colmes which is described as "brief but bloody"!Videos and such.
 
  

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