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Help America Recount!

 
  

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Nobody's girl
01:58 / 11.11.04
Help America Recount.

Heard about this on the Mike Malloy Show, much better than most of the programming on Air America.

Look, I know you just want to give up. I know you're cynical about all this. But, it HAS happened previously and there's no real reason why couldn't have happened again. Is there?

Please support these people. If the Democrats wont do this then it's the little guy that's got to fight this one. And what better way to restore some semblance of Democracy than at the hands of some dedicated citizens, huh?
 
 
fluid_state
03:04 / 11.11.04
Sorry, but it's not going to happen. The Democrats are busy debating what went wrong, and it looks like even convincing people that Bush didn't win by an overwhelming majority is a longshot. The right-wing forums I've read have been re-memeing some line about Bush garnering "the highest popular vote in history"*, which gives a pretty clear picture of the uphill struggle here. It didn't fly in 2000, and barring a "smoking gun" indicating election fraud, it won't fly today.

* I still have no idea where this idea comes from.
 
 
Nobody's girl
03:34 / 11.11.04
Sorry, but it's not going to happen.
Not if you keep up that attitude.

The Democrats are busy debating what went wrong

Screw the Democratic Party! This has nothing to do with them, it has everything to do with letting the P E O P L E of the US take back their election. Not the political parties.

convincing people that Bush didn't win by an overwhelming majority is a longshot. The right-wing forums I've read have been re-memeing some line about Bush garnering "the highest popular vote in history"

So what? Who wins elections is not (much as they'd prefer you not to remember) governed by the propagandists. It's decided by voting, you know, like, LEGALLY. Bush won/stole his first term in the presidency through the courts, why can't voters concerned about election fraud expose and overturn this election through the courts?

barring a "smoking gun" indicating election fraud, it won't fly today.

Smoking gun found, campaigners desperately trying to get word out in the face of; apathy, mainstream media laziness/lying, encroaching deadlines and general cynicism.

I'm willing to accept that the majority of America voted for Bush. But, no-one has yet assured me as to why fraud didn't happen. In fact all I've heard and read implies that something fishy was happening. Even MSNBC has reported these anomalies- do you believe me yet? The people of America clearly can't trust their system and want to examine it. Good for them. Perhaps they'll get somewhere and do us all a favour.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
08:13 / 11.11.04
From the link

Getting out the vote is good, but getting a 123 percent turnout is too good to be true. This happened in Fairview, Ohio

I think I'd almost rather believe that Bush won fair and square - if this kind of thing has been at all widespread, it's almost too depressing for words. What is wrong with the World's Greatest Democracy (TM) when, quite apart from going off on wrong-headed military adventures around the world in the name of free and fair elections, it can't even get those together on it's own #@!£&*$ doorstep ?

Suddenly that record high turnout that's been touted ad nauseam round the world's press makes a lot more sense - Even assuming the Fairview result was just down to a bug in the system, couldn't they, y'know, have checked the system first ? They've had four years, after all.
 
 
fluid_state
08:16 / 11.11.04
I totally agree with you. Especially about the attitude. Unfortunatley, it's still not going to happen. A challenge to the validity of the voting process here requires the Dems, and unless conceding was part of their strategy, the fight's gone out of them. I hope they're waiting for the "right" moment, but I'm not hoping underwater. Of the P E O P L E, half of them voted for the other guy, and may be quite happy with the results. The prospect that the people (of the P.E.O.P.L.E.) can force notice from the media, is almost absurd now (you'd need participation and turnout beyond that of the anti-Iraq-war marches). It's bad enough when there's a tie for President of the Student Council, and the whole school has to drag their feet to the gym for another 45 minutes to cast a ballot for something of little interest to them. Add 55 million, mix, and serve.

Functionally, who wins the election is established by propagandists. Something like 43% of the U.S. citizenry has doubts about the validity of the 2000 election, but President Junior is still in full effect. With full support of the media, for whatever reason. This time, there's only token mention of electoral anomalies and malfeasance, and to at least half the U.S., the party in power is innocent until proven indisputably guilty.

I have no doubt many Americans want to examine their system, but "that attitude" is so prevalent that very few actually expect anything good to come of it when it does happen.

And, uh, for what it's worth, sorry. I don't like it any more than you do, but I'd be a fool to ignore it. Okay, more of a fool.
 
 
alas
11:12 / 11.11.04
Planting the seed of doubt about this election's legitimacy is worthwhile. Even if the dems won't cooperate. Admittedly, it would help if the press would, but it probably won't, very much.. However, just the seed of doubt is worth it.
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:36 / 11.11.04
A challenge to the validity of the voting process here requires the Dems

No, it doesn't. If you'd even checked out the front page of the link you'd know that. An election law in Ohio (and, I think, Florida) means that any voter who voted for the losing party can insist on a recount. That's what this is all about.

It's bad enough when there's a tie for President of the Student Council, and the whole school has to drag their feet to the gym for another 45 minutes to cast a ballot for something of little interest to them.

Who said anything about voting again? I'm totally confused by your reaction. It's a recount. That's where they count the votes again, not get everyone to vote again.

Functionally, who wins the election is established by propagandists.

Well if it is, then maybe we should do something about it, eh? The defeatism after this election is absolutely sickening. Is the propaganda right? Are we just going to let it happen again because we're "spineless liberals"? C'mon people!

This time, there's only token mention of electoral anomalies and malfeasance, and to at least half the U.S., the party in power is innocent until proven indisputably guilty.

Even if the anomalies were small (which I don't accept) in an election this close they could really make the difference. If one court decides this, the whole thing is up for grabs again. The election was NOT won by a huge majority, despite the rhetoric from Chimpy on his "enormous mandate".

Did you watch any of the Dubya campaigning? I have. When campaigning Bush would, quite absurdly, talk about ending the "culture of fear" if he won the election. The reason he did this was because he knew that if he said often enough that he wasn't part of it people would believe him, true or not. He's doing the same thing with this election. He doesn't have a resounding mandate from the people, even if there was no absolutely no voter fraud- which there was.

You seem to be saying that the media has pacified the masses so we should all just give up. Have you considered the possibility that you're exactly the person the media has pacified?

but "that attitude" is so prevalent that very few actually expect anything good to come of it when it does happen.

Look, I'm as cynical about this as the next disappointed bleeding heart. But, what if these guys really can sort it out? It sounds feasable to me. Let's give it a try, damn it! As Utah Phillips said- "Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free."

I don't like it any more than you do, but I'd be a fool to ignore it. Okay, more of a fool.

You're afraid of looking like a fool? I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but that's a pretty poor excuse.
 
 
ibis the being
15:37 / 11.11.04
I would definitely contribute to this cause. If I had any money. Even ten dollars. But, you know, I'm letting my car insurance get canceled just so I can buy groceries, so....
 
 
FinderWolf
16:29 / 11.11.04
Maybe Nader's still good for something after all --
with him calling for the recounts, it looks better
image-wise than if Kerry's campaign called for the
recounts...

-----

NADER CALLS FOR U.S. ELECTION RECOUNTS

2 hours, 52 minutes ago
November 11, 2004
U.S. National - AFP
Yahoo News

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Ralph Nader (news - web sites), an independent presidential candidate this year, has called for recounts of November 2 voting results saying that amid allegations of irregularities, he wanted to ensure that every ballot was counted.

Nader, who this year drew about one percent of the vote nationally, told a press conference Wednesday he was speaking out for the "thousands" of US voters asking for recounts and not on his own behalf.

"Over 2,000 citizens including voting rights advocates are urging in writing the Nader Camejo campaign to help make sure every vote is counted and counted accurately. The Nader Camejo campaign does not view the election to be over merely because concession speeches, which have no legal effect, have been given. Rather they are over when every vote is counted and legally certified," Nader said.

He urged recounts particularly in the hotly disputed states of Ohio and Florida, which went to Bush, New Hampshire which went to Kerry, and North Carolina, which went to Bush.

Nader highlighted irregularities including one reported earlier in an Ohio polling station where 638 voters cast ballots but results showed 4,258 voted for Bush, and 260 for Kerry.

"Striking inconsistencies exist between the vote as reported on the AccuVote Diebold Machines and exit polls and voting trends in New Hampshire. These irregularities in the reported vote count favor president George W. Bush by five to 15 percent over what was expected.

"Problems in these electronic voting machines and optical scanners are being reported in machines in a variety of states," Nader added.

----
 
 
Nobody's girl
17:21 / 11.11.04
Just to clarify, here's the text from the front page of Help America Recount.

"Getting out the vote is good, but getting a 123 percent turnout is too good to be true. This happened in Fairview Park, Ohio. In Broward County, Florida, voting machines can do the moon walk: They count back-wards, but only on certain ballot measures.

If you want to buy a recount in Ohio you don't need to live there...you do need to be a US citizen and you need to get out your check book. How much is Democracy worth to you...starting next week no one can stop us from auditing Ohio we're gonna get em.

In New Hampshire, voting trends seemed to depend more on which voting machine was used than on what party voters were affiliated with. When asked to produce “zero reports” at poll opening, some Florida touch-screen machines reported votes were already in the system, apparent stuffing of the electronic ballot box. Gahanna, Ohio had thousands more votes show up than voters.

Accounting for provisional ballots has been murky, and anomalies have now surfaced in Cuyahoga County, Perry County, and Youngstown Ohio. Florida optical scan machines in 40 counties had statistically improbable results, which did not exist in Florida touch-screens. Technicians got inside access to a central tabulator in Collier County during the middle of the election, and modem security settings may have been disabled for Diebold machines.

As hundreds of anomalies pop up, citizens are thinking:

Who really won? Don’t know. Gotta audit!

Black Box Voting, a nonpartisan, nonprofit consumer protection group for elections, has been investigating election irregularities for two years. The group has honed in on voting machines, citing problems with internal audit logs, tamperability, improper testing and certification, and bogus results. The National Ballot Integrity Project is a nonpartisan nonprofit organization that has approached voting machines from another angle. The organization lobbies for transparency and public accountability in election systems. Both groups are now calling for citizen-initiated recounts. To fund these recounts, BlackBoxVoting.org and the National Ballot Integrity Project have formed a separate, 527 organization, the Help America Recount Fund.

Ralph Nader, who earned notoriety for decades as a consumer protection advocate, just wants to know the truth. How accurate are the Diebold voting machines in New Hampshire?

Using a little-known provision in Ohio law, any five Ohioans who did not vote for the winning candidate can file for recounts. In Florida, citizens can file to contest the election, county by county. Black Box Voting researchers are helping to identify key counties with the worst anomalies, for hand counts and other audits, to detect computer intrusions and vote count discrepancies.

Nader has set the pace for proper auditing, insisting on a hand count of New Hampshire’s Diebold optical scan machines. According to Black Box Voting Executive Director Bev Harris, this method, along with other auditing, is essential to verify machine results, because running ballots through the machines a second time is not a meaningful audit.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:50 / 11.11.04
So what does Nader have to do to ensure a ballot recount? How do the rules go here? What standard of proof or whatever does he have to provide, and who decides whether or not we get a ballot recount?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:52 / 11.11.04
Or is it just a question of raising enough money?
 
 
Nobody's girl
18:31 / 11.11.04
Hmm, not sure. As a presidential candidate doesn't he have the right to call recounts any time he likes?

I know that money is needed for the auditing of certain counties. Under freedom of information laws they can't refuse to give out the electoral information (although Michigan has illegally refused, presumably buying time while the shredders get to work) but they can ask for money to cover photocopying etc.

As Black Box Voting are asking for electoral information from every county in the US in the largest ever freedom of information request their funds are getting mightily stretched.
 
 
Nobody's girl
13:24 / 12.11.04
Just heard on air america that Bev Harris from Blackboxvoting.org has settled out of court her lawsuit against Diebold for their false claims of reliabilty of voting machines in California.

The Kerry campaign lawyers are back in Ohio to ask some pointed questions of elections officials. So far it's only called a "fact-finding mission" because they don't want to be labelled as conspiracy theorists.

The Libertarian and Green Parties are also asking for a recount in the contentious states.

People for the American Way are appealing to all people who encountered problems voting to write to their congressman and local news outlets to try and get this issue covered in the face of a mainstream news blackout. I know some of you saw problems at the polls, write to your local paper and news channel. Get word out!
 
 
fluid_state
19:54 / 12.11.04
I had a lengthy reply, honest, NG. Fuck it. I'm curious: what would you expect be accomplished, having the votes recounted in contentious states? I mean, I'd like to see Junior marched out of office, but the best outcome I can see is a larger historical footnote about the implication of electoral fraud in 2004. Good luck, and more power to y'all, but I think your time and money may be better spent fighting for a viable alternative to the current two-party system, or working on ways to cajole the mainstream media back to a centrist position.
 
 
Nobody's girl
04:48 / 13.11.04
I'm curious: what would you expect be accomplished, having the votes recounted in contentious states?

Justice, perhaps? I know, I'm a romantic

The last election in America was a widely acknowledged swindle. Two in a row? That scares me. That bodes badly for the future of democratic nations on this planet. If the most prominent democracy and most powerful nation in the world ends up as the most prominent pseudo-democracy, a byword for fraud and corruption, then imagine the cues the rest of the world will take from that. Shit, look at the cues the world has already taken from this mess- Guantanamo Bay for the US/Belmarsh Prison for the UK. America is now determining the political climate everywhere , whether we like it or not.

I don't really care who won anymore. Now what I care about is that the government of the most ascendent nation is still, in some small way, accountable to someone- if only to their voters. Call me crazy, but I don't like the idea of the lone Superpower deciding to do whatever the hell it likes with no-one to answer to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no great fan of the democratic system. In my opinion, democracy as we know it is a piss poor excuse for government of, by and for the people. But, fuck it, we have to work with what we've got right? So when that tiny concession to power sharing we call democracy is corrupted, I get really concerned. I start thinking "Where will this end?". I just want to know that the elections were fairly conducted and if they weren't I think it's important to challenge that, to fix it. Why? Because no-one else will do it for us.

Please answer me this- what do you think will be accomplished by not having the vote recounted in the contentious states? If you don't think it's important, why get involved in discussion about it? What's your interest in this not happening?

but I think your time and money may be better spent fighting for a viable alternative to the current two-party system or working on ways to cajole the mainstream media back to a centrist position.

I think this is a false dilemma. Why should we choose between the two? I agree with you that a viable alternative to the two-party system is absolutely necessary but I fail to see why an election recount and audit should preclude this. The same goes for the media. I agree absolutely with your aim, but I still don't see why we can't do all of these things.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:16 / 13.11.04
but I think your time and money may be better spent fighting for a viable alternative to the current two-party system, or working on ways to cajole the mainstream media back to a centrist position.

Hon, your voting system doesn't work with two parties, how's it going to work with more? The reason a recount is a good idea is that it highlights the problems with voting in your country- not the problems that individuals have with the President or the parties but with the actual system of casting your vote. If you don't emphasise the problem in every way you can than it's going to go on stealing your rights. Have you no democratic pride at all? Get your arse in gear and start to talk about this, you can't pile the pressure on every four years, this is something that needs to be fixed before the next election.
 
 
Nobody's girl
17:55 / 13.11.04
Voters Unite! is a easy to understand website documenting all the voting irregularities in the election that have been reported, state by state.
 
 
fluid_state
02:05 / 14.11.04
Yeah, I should apologize for being such a damn grump. I'm in wholehearted agreement on the need for a recount, just to make sure the implication of fraud is registered if nothing else. However, I can't see it being recognized by the media as anything other than "conspiracy theory", and relegated to that circle of stigma. I think that does quite a bit of damage to the culture's ability to deal with our troublesome facts, and makes it easier to dismiss them in the future. But that's just me being bitter, again, and I didn't/don't mean to cast doubt on the necessity of a recount, or the positive aspects thereof. So I'm off dancing, and maybe I'll be cheerier when I get back. Damn sure I'll be drunk, so at the least, I should prove more entertaining.
 
 
Z. deScathach
06:00 / 14.11.04
While the recount won't change the election in all probability, it needs to be done, for the simple reason that if it's found out that Shrub stole another election, the disenchantment will be nothing less then huge. It's just what is required to shake people out of their apathy. In terms of money, it will be reached. 150,000 dollars is chump change in the scale of things.....
 
 
Nobody's girl
08:18 / 14.11.04
Solid, thanks for cheering me up. Hope you had a good night out.

In terms of money, it will be reached. 150,000 dollars is chump change in the scale of things

Good, I'm excited about this moving forward.
 
 
alas
12:21 / 15.11.04
I think this is one case where, assuming they reach the $150,000 goal they need to reach, the left is actually, perhaps kind of by accident, playing it kind of smart. Yes the US media have largely been dismissing this as "conspiracy" thinking--and the Dems want no part of that. But the people asking for the recount are not the dems but the EVIL THIRD PARTIES--the libertarians and the Greens--who are openly saying: "Look, we're not doing this because we think we'll win--we're not THAT crazy--but because we BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY." So the Dems avoid looking sour-grapish and desperate and the third parties say: fine: "what's so wrong about making sure every vote counts?"

And Keith Olbermann of MSNBC has, single-handedly and quite even-handedly, kept this story alive. And, because of all that, the major media has, if somewhat reluctantly, had to keep reporting on it. And they have to at least mention some of the voting irregularities that have been reported. And they have to note that the main people in charge of voting in places like Ohio and Florida were very openly partisan Republicans with an interest in seeing the vote go one way rather than another. Ken Blackwell, in Ohio, was the chair of Bush's re-election team in Ohio, and he's the head of the Board of Elections.

This is important NOT because it might change the outcome of this election, but because it's critical to shine a light on this shady game. It's not a magic bullet to the problems with "democracy" in America, but it is a small good thing. (And worth giving money to, if you can spare a dime, please do so!)
 
 
Z. deScathach
18:58 / 15.11.04
Yeah, you really have to appreciate Olbermann's stead-fast reporting on this. The whole thing smells like a dead skunk on the road. The real question, I think, will be whether the people investigating it will be able to find a smoking gun. Unless they do, it will get the label "conspiracy theory", and fade into oblivion.
 
 
Nobody's girl
19:31 / 15.11.04
According to Randi Rhodes (Florida 2000 election veteran and general shit-stirrer on Air America) the recount is on. Hooray! They needed $150,000- they got $250,000. Further news expected around Thanksgiving.
 
 
alas
17:28 / 16.11.04
Yes yes yes! they did make the $150,000! Here's the press release from The Green Party of the US.

Now, re: The real question, I think, will be whether the people investigating it will be able to find a smoking gun. Unless they do, it will get the label "conspiracy theory", and fade into oblivion.

I disagree. First off, there are smoking guns all over the place. Read this article on all the smelly rats. Will they smoke out a smelly rat with a smoking gun that the impaired olfactory receptors of the rest of the media will respond to?

Well, maybe maybe not. BUT I do think this has long-term consequences. It says to those in power: "We're WATCHING. We CARE about this. We won't let you steal this election, too!, at least not without a fight, and we're going to be even stronger next election."

Smoking guns don't deliver magic rat-killing bullets, to torture this mixed metaphor even further, but this kind of massive awareness maybe, just maybe, DOES. Slowly. Which may be better, long term. There are of course no guarantees. This is democracy! People remain free agents; nothing is certain or predictable. That's the beauty of it. And I think it's worth doing no matter what, because it is about, well, Truth. Justice. Maybe even "the American Way." .... On second thought, let's not get TOO carried away.
 
 
Nobody's girl
13:46 / 18.11.04
OK, so the recount is going ahead. Last night on Mike Malloy he had one of the co-founders of "Help America Recount" as a guest. She described an incident that, for me at least, is a smoking gun.

Bev Harris from Black Box Voting made a freedom of information request for voting information in a county in Florida I have no hope of spelling correctly. She and her assistant eventually received tapes that had been copied recently (the 15th) and asked to see the originals to confirm their authenticity. They were taken to a warehouse where officials were sorting through the tapes. These officials threw Bev Harris out.

Undeterrred, Bev Harris and her assistant go to the back of the warehouse. They found trash bags full of the original tapes. They began sorting through the tapes and found many of them were not duplicated in the copies they were given from the 15th and stragely enough, a lot of these tapes had information from poorer districts. The election officials called the cops as Bev Harris was writing up a freedom of information request for the trash. All of this was caught on video.

Of course, the cops had nothing to charge Bev Harris with and she is now in possesion of some extremely damning evidence of fraud.

This video will eventually be posted at- Votergate.tv where there are already videos of this campaign.

If you want to hear the story told (much better) on the Mike Malloy show I reccomend you visit The White Rose Society and click on the link to Mike Malloy's archived radio show. Wednesday the 17th November has the interview with the co-founder of "Help America Recount". Mike Malloy has been quite vitriolic of late, so I can't endorse some of his positions but he's one of the few media who have actully been covering this story- check it out.
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:12 / 18.11.04
If you want to listen to Joan Kravitz of Help America Recount on the archived Mike Malloy show the interview starts at 1 hour and 8 minutes into the show.
 
 
alas
21:29 / 18.11.04
A team of statisticians from UC Berkeley raises "smoke alarm" on Florida vote.
 
 
paw
23:29 / 18.11.04
so as it stands right now how is the mainstream media reporting this thing, any build up of momentum given the seemingly extensive evidence of voter fraud?
 
 
Nobody's girl
23:51 / 18.11.04
Ha! Well, I'd love to hear it if there is. As far as I know only MSNBC has really reported on this and the reporter who covered it is now on holiday. Apparently.

That said, I don't regularly look up mainstream US news outlets because funnily enough I find them uninformative.
On the Voter's Unite! website they link to a lot of small town newspapers covering voting irregularities in their area.

So, anyone who has noticed news agencies covering this please link to it. I can't wait to see how it's covered, if it's ever covered at all. Seems to me that there's some hard-core agenda setting going on here.
 
 
Atyeo
15:27 / 19.11.04
I don't want to be a damp squid, and I'm not actually from the US (live in London) but this whole thing smacks of 'bad losers'.

I completely agree with the principles behind your arguement but you are never, and I mean never in a million years going to turn this election result around.

I'm sure you are just going to give those bastards on the right more ammo.

"Those communists just can't accept it"

The only people who agree with you are liberals. And voted for the Democrats.

You have to play it smart. Like the Republicans.
 
 
grant
15:46 / 19.11.04
Well, here's the thing -- I don't think anyone expects to unseat Bush at this point. That's not the aim. Kerry conceded (just like Nixon did to Kennedy, despite some very, very questionable votes from Chicago).

The aim is to safeguard the system. (Which would also make the Reps look pretty bad to voters the next go-round.)

And it seems like the story *might* be getting some more mainstream attention soon, according to Talking Points Memo...

"Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause."

That's a passage from a message Sen. John Kerry will be sending out to supporters later this afternoon.
 
 
Nobody's girl
16:11 / 19.11.04
I'm getting a little tired of the bad losers argument. It has nothing to do with being a bad loser and everything to do with ensuring the democratic system is still working. If this situation had been reversed don't you think the Republicans would be making noise? And rightly so, I might add.

I'm not denying a vain hope that perhaps it'll overturn the election in Kerry's favour, but even if it doesn't I think this is important work. People should be allowed to inspect their democracy without harrassment or accusations. Surely that's what democracy is all about?
 
 
Nobody's girl
01:51 / 24.11.04
A lawsuit alleging criminal felony fraud has been filed in Volusia county in Florida, the county Bev Harris found the election tapes in trash bags. Apparently she was even briefly featured on CNN, though I coudn't find anything about it on the CNN website.

FindLaw is a legal news website that is tracking all the election court cases currently filed.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:24 / 24.11.04
Yahoo had an article earlier on its main page about a judge denying a vote recount in Ohio (before the count of provisonal ballots was even completed)...was going to cut and paste it but got distracted at work.

This article, however, is a little more optimistic about mainstream politics addressing the issues of voting problems - John Kerry also says he's going to tackle this issue hard-core. I mean, sure, we can read this and say 'ahh, it's all corrupt, they say they'll try to stop the corruption but it's all back-door deals, they'll never stop it, etc. etc.' but at least this is a step in the right direction.

----------------------------

After complaints from around the country, an office called the GAO has begun to look into the Nov. 2 vote count, including the handling of provisional ballots and malfunctions of voting machines.

The presidential results won't change, but the studies could lead to changes.

The Government Accountability Office usually begins investigations in response to specific requests from Congress, but the agency's head, Comptroller General David Walker, said the GAO acted on its own because of the many comments it received about ballot counting.

GAO officials said the investigation was not triggered by a request from several House Democrats, who wrote the agency this month seeking an investigation. The effort, led by senior Judiciary Committee (news - web sites) Democrat John Conyers of Michigan, was not joined by any Republicans.

Walker said in a statement that some of the election work is under way. The probe will cover voter registration, voting machine problems and handling of provisional ballots, which were given to voters who said they were eligible to cast votes although their names were not on the rolls.

He cautioned that the GAO cannot enforce the law if voting irregularities are found, noting that state officials regulate elections and the Justice Department (news - web sites) prosecutes voting rights violations and election fraud.

Conyers said in an interview Wednesday that several House Democrats "want the widest, most impartial investigation that can be had. Whether they (GAO investigators) want to go as far as we want to go, we're not certain. We're at first base. Where do we go from here?"

The congressman said he plans to meet with Walker and key Republicans to see whether Congress should take action to improve election systems.

He said he would like the investigation to include allegations that insufficient numbers of voting machines were sent to some Democratic areas.

The study also should cover how election officials responded to problems they encountered, he said.

Thousands of complaints have poured in to Congress and appeared on Internet sites about problems with the elections, the Democrats said.

In make-or-break Ohio, where Bush won 20 electoral votes, voters cast 155,337 provisional ballots. They are under review by state elections officials, who count them if registration is confirmed. About 78 percent of the ballots counted so far have been deemed valid.

Meanwhile, election officials in two Ohio counties have discovered possible cases of people voting twice in the presidential election, and a third county found about 2,600 ballots were double-counted.

Groups checking election results have overwhelmed Ohio county boards of election with requests for information, and a statewide recount of the presidential vote appears inevitable after a pair of third-party candidates collected enough money to demand one.

Other examples of problems cited by Conyers and other House Democrats:

_In Columbus, Ohio, an electronic voting system gave President Bush (news - web sites) nearly 4,000 extra votes.

_An electronic count of a South Florida gambling ballot initiative failed to record thousands of votes.

_In Guilford County, N.C., vote totals were so large that the tabulation computer didn't count some votes, and a recount awarded an additional 22,000 votes to Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites).

_In San Francisco, a glitch in voting machine software left votes uncounted.

_In Youngstown, Ohio, voters who tried to cast ballots for Kerry on electronic machines saw their votes recorded for President Bush instead.

_In Sarpy County, Neb., a computer problem added thousands of votes to the county total. It was not clear which presidential candidate benefited from the error in the overwhelmingly Republican state.
 
  

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