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Occult revolt

 
  

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LVX23
19:55 / 04.11.04
PIta wrote:
One of my goals for the next decade is to help develop a new linguistic paradigm much like the neocons did only I would like the focus of this paradigm to be liberation rather than domination

Totally agreed. The Repubs are masters of media manipulation and brand awareness. They are coordinated and unified behind their platform.

IMHO, advertising and branding are key to any successful sociopolitical movement in the modern age. You have to use media technologies to appeal to people and make the movement sexy, otherwise it's just regarded as stale. Repubs understand the value of a pretty face. But the Left needs a make-over in a bad way. We need rock stars and femme fatales hawking liberation technologies (and I don't mean Madonna).

Create a language that clearly defines the platform, then use it regularly to reinforce the new paradigm. The Repubs very effectively rebranded the word "liberal" to have negative connotations. We need to establish a new vernacular.

Branding is also key. Think of the W 2004 logo. Very simple and recognizable. We need a unifying sigil (along these lines we could start another thread to create the logo, then put it up on CafePress).

The failure of the Democratic party is that it let's the Repubs dictate the platform. The Dems keep running these pansy-assed centrist candidates instead of someone who's not afraid to stand up tall and represent the progessive ideals we're all really longing for. A truly effective occult revolution needs to advertise itself as the most exciting and futuristic alternative available.
 
 
Pita
21:02 / 04.11.04
Some associates and I are currently developing a site to serve as a hub for this networking called occultrevolt.us

If there are Lithers who would be willing to help us with design/development we would happily welcome you on board

email me at aron23@gmail.com to get invited to the mailing list
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
23:16 / 04.11.04
Last night in my post-election daze I was wracking my brains trying to come up with any way out of this rat-trap. I think that that may be speaking to the majority in this country in their own language – morals and religion. Of course, some people may think that that is, again, allowing them to set the debate just like Bush set the tone in the presidential debates by allowing Kerry (or Kerry only allowing himself) the defensive position. But I think that ultimately, re-directing the religious narrative in this country instead of ignoring it and hoping it goes away may be our only course of action.

The only thing I can think of to do personally is to start by creating a website where religious voices–pastors, ministers, etc. who are anti-war–can out-Jesus and out-moralize these people and get them not to think twice, but feel twice about how their lives and their stories have been hijacked. I or like-minded people would need voices to be heard and people who are willing to donate a domain, webspace and design time.

Pass this email on far and wide. These are things we should at least be thinking about.

Jason


We Are the Moral Majority

I'm writing this the morning after Black Wednesday. Here in New York the hurt and defeat – I'm talking physical pain – are palpable. Even the sky went dark.

The thing we most feared happened. A lot of people are trying to get used to the idea of being resigned to this regime for the next four years. A lot of people, especially young people, are planning to leave the country.

One thing is for sure: what we saw yesterday is the complete failure of the left to get through to voters. We appealed to reason. We uncovered the Bush administration's dealings, their lies and their personal interests. We showed them the fruits of their labor in graphic detail. We showed them that despite everything that Bush and the Neo-Cons say to them, in the end they will take their money and send their children to die for no REASON whatsoever.

And you know what? The people who re-elected Bush saw and heard and registered that. It even gave some of them pause – but in the end, that didn't matter. Because Bush BELIEVES. Bush is religious. Bush is moral. And most of all, Bush holds the Word of Christ as true and incontrovertible.

Religion is the opiate of the masses – or it can be, if wielded by hands who mean to use it to enslave and cynically manipulate. It can also be man's highest aspiration – to find meaning in life, to find goodness and truth, even to surrender to higher power.

Imagine the left in this country from the perspective of the overwhelmingly religious majority of those who voted for Bush this last Tuesday – those who did so because Bush speaks to the unshakeable faith that they hold so deep within them, that they have carried with them from childhood or conversion, that they gauge their own actions and those of everybody else on this planet by. Look at the shameful, unwitting self-parody that is the left through their eyes, the living Jack Chick tract that is left-leaning America. Living like rats in cities with no space to breathe or appreciate the land or the simple things. Snide, arrogant, belittling, totally convinced of intellectual superiority and unwilling to believe in something higher. Our pundits and champions are sarcastic comedians, coddled actors and misogynist rappers, not serious political thinkers. From their eyes, we teach our children that God does not exist (condemning them to hell), that people descend from monkeys, to spit on the traditional family and its values and that it's perfectly OK to kill unborn children, all while laughing at those evolutionary throwbacks who are so unsophisticated that they actually believe the Word of God and the moral code laid down in the Bible.

How can you expect to argue with the Bush administration and those who support it when everything that comes out of your mouth sounds like mocking laughter, and from somebody so backward and unaware of the hollow void at the center of their life that they haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior, to boot?

This country was founded on the separation of Church and State. We might yet realize this eminently sane ideal. Unfortunately, since the Reagan years and especially in the last four, this separation no longer holds true. But the time to lament a country that was more respectful of individual differences is not now, not when the average American's view of reality has been almost wholly constructed from the King James Bible, FOX News and the Left Behind series.

Now I was watching CNN after the election results came out and, over and over again, I saw people being interviewed on why they cast their vote the way they did. And Bush's supporters overwhelmingly said that they ticked his box because Bush is a man of faith. Despite the fact that their decisions are rapidly returning this country and the world to the 13th century, these are not consciously wrong-doing people (neither, I would go so far as to say, is Bush, although I won't speak either for his cabinet or for the Neo-Con elite in this country). All of these people have put their faith in something huge, a transcendent force bigger than any single one of them, a force that for many of them is the glue and meaning of their lives and their protector and salvation in their moments of need, fear, doubt and darkness.

And these people's faith – so pure and simple – is being callously manipulated to serve the interests of an unsustainable and murderous political and economic system, and moreover, a truly Satanic elite that does not care one whit for the people or the beliefs that it pays lip service to in order to hold on to its mandate to steal and kill.

So stop thinking in terms of hypocrisy. Stop thinking in terms of rationality. The only way that we will minimize the irreversible damage done to our planet and our civilization in the next four years is to speak to the Bush administration, and even more importantly, the people who support them, in their language. To show them how the narrative they hold to be true has been manipulated and played upon. We have four years. So instead of giving in to despair or separatism – which will almost certainly allow the last semblances of democracy-as-we-knew it vanish into the night – we need to work with what we have. We need to ENLIGHTEN BUSH.

The most immediate thing that can be done in this respect is to begin assembling voices. Let's do it. We need pastors and ministers writing and on TV, explaining to Bush and the Neo-Con jackals that are raping this planet what Christianity is REALLY about. WE NEED RELIGIOUS AND MORAL VOICES SPEAKING TO THE "RELIGIOUS" AND "MORAL." Give them something that's not so easy to dismiss. Give them something that goes straight to their heart, not their brains. Give them something that speaks in the language that they hear in the middle of the night when they lay awake with doubts as to whether they're doing the right thing or not. We need to out-moralize and out-Jesus them. We need to give them scolding father and mother figures. Give 'em their own medicine and remind them that Thou Shalt Not Kill.

Organize a deeply religious, anti-war voice in this country and give it the mountain to give its sermon on, on TV, on radio and on the web and we'll start to turn back the tide of inhuman violence that has been perpetrated in the name of religion. There's no reason even to be limited to Christianity, although it needs to be the primary mode of argument.

This is going to take a lot of organizational effort but it could be one of the best – the only – ways to lighten the burden of this administration on our planet, ourselves and the generations to come.

Religion is not the problem – religious fundamentalism is, and that's across the board. Christianity and Islam are both religions of peace, as our President has pointed out, and are also highly sophisticated methods of human liberation once one gets past the totally literal interpretation and begins to explore past the surface – so what happened to all the True Believers? The message of Christ has been hijacked and used for political control and manipulation since before that message was even written down. And they're hijacking it still, right now – but I have faith in people to be good and not follow the lies, when that good is framed in a way that people are prepared to listen to. And not in the way of the politicians who spout the language of faith while setting this world on fire.

Because in their assuredness that they are following the decree of Heaven, they are swiftly turning this planet into a living hell.

Let's take back the hearts and souls of the nation. The Kingdom of Heaven could be now.

–Jason Louv
 
 
vajramukti
04:16 / 05.11.04


y'know i agree completely, but i think you're not going far enough. the rift between postmodern pluralism and authentic spirituality is not a new problem. it's been an issue since the enlightenment. ( which I'm hearing is officially over anyway. lol. gotta laugh sometime. )

i would direct anyone interested in the topic to ken wilber in general, and 'the marridge of sense and soul' in particular.

the upshot is this: we've left the spiritual card to be played in the worst concieveable way, and to boot we've thrown away our greatest strength as human beings in the process. this is way beyond a political issue. my feeling right now, today, is that we have witnessed the failure of politics. this is the tragedy of the commons writ large and in flaming letters.

no. this is bigger than that. this is about evolution. this is about taking our hearts and souls into the future. this is about integrating the wisdom of the past with the speed of tomorrow.
the magick community could have and should have been on the leading edge of this. maybe we are. but if so, we've failed desperately. we've failed our obligations to the teachers who suffered and died to pass these traditions to us. we've failed the test posed to us by our times. we've allowed ourselves to sink into irony and treat what has always been a life and death struggle as a postmodern joke. cast a sigil, change the fucking channel.

the buck stops here. are we waiting for someone else to take the lead, provide the vision, to brave new possiblities? are we waiting for someone else to realise the higher self in each one of us? you can call it the holy guardian angel, the true will, the grace of god, the shamanic calling, whatever you bloody like, but it isn't coming from anyone but you, and it aint coming out on dvd with extras and behind the scenes fucking commentary.

YOU have to be this. You have to love this enough to fight for it. you have to hunger for the taste of your soul so much you would die for it. you have to teach that love to everyone you meet, because nothing else will do at this stage my friends. playing catch up to these kind of cynical blood soaked power games will lead us all to our collective tombstone. your soul is not a politcal ploy. Your soul is the only thing worth fighting for. and really there is only one soul, one spirit, so ultimately we win or we lose together.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:54 / 05.11.04
Y'know, it's been my position for awhile now that the dichotomy drawn between the magical and religious community is more problematic than it is constructive. It's almost a chronic response within the discourse of contemporary magic to treat religion as a pejorative term. The attitude that magicians are courageous pioneers taking responsibility for their own spirituality, and followers of a religion are mindless sheep who need to be told what to do. "Dumb Xtians", and so on. In many ways this perspective is as close minded, arrogant and destructive as the right wing fundamentalist position that we're all going to burn in hell.

I think a lot of this probably takes its lead from Crowley and Thelema, and is also quite strongly informed by left hand doctrines such as the Temple of Set, etc. It seems to take a view that, eventually, in some imaginary future – as nebulous as anything you'll find in the 'left behind' narratives – everyone on the planet will somehow come round to a magic freindly perspective on things. The New Aeon of 93 (or whatever) will dawn and all of these bigoted religious people will somehow die out, leaving only people that conveniantly think the same way that we do. In some ways, this division of magic and religion seems to be informed by practically the same narrative as you'll find in the maddest of fundamentalist apocalypse scenarios. But with Horus riding down in the 11th hour, rather than Mary and Joseph's blue eyed boy.

I favour a more syncretic approach, myself. My magical practice and beliefs are pretty much inclusive of Christianity, granted it's an extremely gnostic, Santeria inspired version of Catholicism. But I really don't give a shit. If I can walk into a church and hold a dialogue with something I call Jesus, and I get a clear response, and I'm totally honest and sincere about what I'm doing, and I find the whole process personally meaningful, then it's powerful Christianity. And I'll defy anyone to tell me otherwise.

I don't see anything problematic about Christ as an entity, whether considered in Biblical terms, or as an expression of Oxala or Obatala. If you have a living powerful relationship with something, and you are sincere about it, and it works for you – then to my mind, that is more important than any academic quibbles over poorly translated written dogma that a detractor might care to raise. It's versioning on the theme of Christ, which makes it no less valid than any of the established churches and denominations who are also just versioning on the theme of Christ. And in many cases, doing so in a way that is wildy at odds with the actual message of Christ. Perhaps some of this is unpalatable to many orthodox Christians, but they'll just have to like it. My faith is stronger.
 
 
Unconditional Love
10:43 / 05.11.04
i have read several people putting forth the idea of forming group structures, i have one criticism of this a group starts to have a fixed identity at some point it becomes a tangible force while this might feel like strenght, it is from a certain view point, that of stealth a weakness,

individuals acting within an invisible college, belonging through eye contact, the structure of a sentence, a report filed, spree magick, guerilla gnosis, with no identity but that assumed for the moment of action is far more effective.

there is an essay by hakim bey called the tong, i think well worth reading if a group is the intended structure.

any blatantly structured revolutionary group immediately becomes a target. or something allegedly burroughs once said to someone, buy a suit and blend in.

camoflage or shoot the guy waving the flag over there.

saboteurs not soldiers, swip swapping identities til not even you know who you are or what you are. til nothing feels comfortable. from nothing you can become anything you need to be and then go right back to being nothing again.

the prince, is well worth reading.

you need to become your enemy, get right inside of them and then change them from the inside out,if thats your intent. and having no you you cant lose yourself in the process. so become them embrace them, but in order for there to be no fighting eventually somebody has to lay down there weapons, and just trust in reality as you find it.

maybe its naieve to think mother nature takes care of her own, but its kept me for a long time.
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:07 / 05.11.04
which reminds me gypsy lantern started a thread about disguise as a magickal practice.

master of disguise
 
 
LVX23
15:32 / 05.11.04
re: christians

For me the problem isn't with Christians in general. It's with dogma and fanaticism. The people who demand that their cosmology is the only correct one and all the rest of us are doomed to hell unless we let Jesus (or Mohammed) into our lives. I've met plenty of honest, good people who are devout Christian's but have diverse friends and never push their faith. The problem is in judgement. And many of us who might have a knee-jerk reaction against Xtianity grew up in an environment where we were constantly being judged and told how to live.

If you look at the history of the human species, nothing has caused more suffering and destruction than religious fundamentalism. We can speak to the mellow Christians, but the Fundies ain't never gonna change.
 
 
Pita
16:37 / 05.11.04
re: groups

while I entirely agree that the real work must be done on an individual level, and that an obvious group affliation can lead to easier targeting; it remains true that uncoordinated and unfocused acts which seem more tactical than strategic cannot compete with a force like the christian coalition (note i did not say chrisitans in general) because their coordinated preparations create a much more stable foundation from which to impose their definitions of reality

I feel that in the current situation we who disagree with that platform and recognize the inherant deception within it could better destablize that platform by coordinating our efforts

The idea behind the occultrevolt website is to have a place various communities can network through to coordinate such efforts, rather than form some new community
 
 
Liger Null
18:17 / 05.11.04
I agree with Pita, a concerted, organized, and visible effort is neccessary for success. Look at progressive efforts in this country: abolition, voting rights, civil rights, free speech, ect. They all had a vocal, activist element to compliment any underground activities. Hell, this is true of Christianity itself...So why not come forward? Is it persecution that we fear, or ridicule?

Look at it this way: There needs to be a guy up there waving a flag; he distracts the opposition from all those camoflaged ninjas sneaking in through the back door.
 
 
--
02:02 / 06.11.04
I think that politics very often brings out the worst in people, as it basically breaks everyone down into a self/not-self category. And it also warps our perceptions of other people. part of the problem with the fundamentalists is that many of them, simply put, have no actual experience with homosexual people. They simply can't relate to the concept because they don't have a human face to put it to... It's like an abstract concept. I think, the more different type of people you experience, the more open-minded you'll be. Now, Cheaney is pretty right-wing, right? Yet he disagrees with the constitutional ban on gay marriage. This is largely due to the fact his daughter is a lesbian. Because he can relate to the issue on a personal level, he can't as easily slip into the narrow-minded headset so common among the fundamentalist set.

Of course, this works both ways. In the past I've very often dissed cops and soldiers. But recently I got into a car accident (no one was killed or seriously hurt, fortunetly) and the cop on scene was the nicest guy ever. So I had to change some of my viewpoints on that a bit. Also, besides barbelith I'm a member of a gaming forum and that place exposes me to a lot of people of all different shapes and sizes. One good friend of mine there is a soldier and a conservative, though he's more of a fiscal conservative then social. Once he told us that he and some of his army friends had sat around once and discussed what they'd ever do if the US government told them to do something that was a clear violation of civil rights. Most of them agreed that they'd probably refuse orders or rebel. He also told me that most generals are opposed to the idea of a draft... Why would they want soldiers who don't even want to be there anyway? My conversations with this individual showed me that perhaps not all soldiers are brainless macho guys who can't think for themselves.

Interestingly enough I mentioned this thread to a friend of mine who knows a lot about politics and he said "No offense, but I think your friends are over-reacting big time". He told me that these things often go in cycles... For example, the 80's were a very conservative time, but then the 90's were liberal, and now it looks like we're back in a conservative cycle. However, what's really weird was that in the neocon 80's gay people finally came to be accepted, to some extent... mainly because they were dying of AIDS, but you take what victories you can get. And now, in these very conservative Bush administration times, gays finally begin to get married... Something that didn't happen during the eight fairly liberal years of the Clinton administration. This makes me think that change is an irrepresible force and that, try as hard as they can to contain it, it'll still happen anyway. Right now gay marriage is just a convienent scapegoat, kinda like Oscar Wilde during the decline of the British Empire. Grant Morrison says the American empire is going down, and this may very well be it's final thrashings. We just have to make sure that we survive the death throes.

I'm not taking an apocalyptic viewpoint of these matters at all, as that's just "their" thinking patterns. I mean, I'm sure many artists and punks in the 80's thought that the world was going to hell in a handbasket, what with the combo of Reagan and Thatcher. Yet civilization moved on, and I feel such will be the case here again.

Anyway, I guess you could say I agree with Jack Frost's idea of "killing" the "enemy" with kindness. Awhile back in the comics forum I posted this story but I'll tell it again to illustrate my point. When I was in college I was one of the lead officers of the campus gay-straight alliance. The only problem was it was mostly gay people, as the only straights we managed to attract were girls (come to think of it, I was one of the only guys in that group, for that matter). Now, one of our goals was spreading awareness about gay issues, gay rights, tolerance, fighting homophobia, and all that. We did this in a variety of ways.

For example, once we had a talk on homophobia. Not many students attended, but there was this one guy who did: He looked like your typical gang member, the bling, all that, and as I recall he was Puerto Rican. Just looking at him the instinctual thought-processes of my conditioning kicked in: "Oh, look at this macho tough guy. He's probably just here to cause triuble or make fun of us". But to my surprise he told us that he had a friend who was very homophobic and some of his ideas on gay people were also slightly negative, so he wanted to learn more about homophobia and gay people in general. The fact he was trying to learn more about a group of people that his upbringing obviously had a bias against touched me. He came to a few of our other functions, actually. We actually connected with a lot of people, I think, and usually we did this best when we offered food, friendliness, and things of that nature. Food in particular is a great communicator, especially if it's sweets.

Of course, we did cause controversy at times too, like there was this one time we did this live homo acts thing where we said live homo acts were going on in the campus cafeteria. Of course, people got there and just saw us sitting around, eating, chatting, reading, and other banal mundane activities. But some people who saw the sign just walked away yelling they didn't want to see any sex stuff or making out. Still, some people did tell us they thought it was clever, even some middle-aged black woman who worked at the campus ministry. And the priest at the campus would often speak about tolerance and equality and things like that.

So, I guess you could say that the problem with these backwater fundamentalist types is that they cut themselves away from the world and thus cannot see people of other lifestyles as just that, people. The same could maybe be said for intellectual anarchist art students who just stay in their dorms or apartments all day or whatever while claiming all cops are pigs, all politicians are evil, and so on. The problem is that the solution is never so plainly laid out or cut and dry, and our own prejudices (and I've been guilty of this myself) prevent us from connecting with other people. Sometimes it seems we have more in common with our "foes" then we think.

What's that old song? "There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's only you and me, and we just disagree".

Okay, enough hallmark card hippy-dippy shit. I've ranted.
 
 
Epop Bastart the Justified, I
05:24 / 06.11.04
At the risk of being a bit obvious, what about the Nazi angle?

You know? Prescott Bush supporting the Reich directly or indirectly, and wasn't Rove's grandfather some kind of SS officer or some such???

http://sourceryforge.org/w/The_Fourth_Horseman_Theory might be one starting point on unravelling that particular ball.

I think that's really where the powerbase is. The Christianity isn't really what's moving this shit forward: the sinister totalitarianism doesn't feel, at least to me, like The Vatican's vibe. It's much more flat-out Nazi. Not Mother Church's Harsh Judgement, but the slippery, soul destroying evil which uses the will of the common people to mint monsters.

$0.02 but I think that's the angle to take, which would suggest that the correct approach is more one of putting energy into *WAKING PEOPLE UP TO THE RISK* so they can act, rather than foolishly trying to butt heads with the Evangelicals.

They're just people. They'll do whatever they believe is right, more or less. Unless you can change their minds, attacking them is simply asking to get outgunned.

Where as, trying to make people take notice, to snap out of the trance, and say "FUCKING HELL THIS IS ALL WRONG!" seems much more productive. A telephone call takes a lot less energy to make than, say, a baseball bat attack on some percieved badness.
 
 
Pita
09:30 / 06.11.04
two points:

While christianity is certainly not the motivation for the neocons, I doubt anyone would deny that it makes up their voter base

If only neocons voted for Bush he would have had about the same numbers as Nader

------------------------

You are absolutely right about the cyclical nature of all this thats the main reason I proposed this project, to lay the groundwork for the next clarity phase, 2008-2012, so that the expansion of awareness this time through can be maximized
 
 
vajramukti
14:11 / 06.11.04


I think it might be a mistake to fall back on the long term strategy. yes evolution will sort all this out in 30, 40, 50 years MAYBE.

the other distinct possibility is that the nightmare neocon magickal narritive will suck the whole earth into the same polarised worldview they've fostered in the usa,all the while consolidating their gains, and working on THIER long term strategy, polishing thier magckal chops, and perfecting their spin for the next time around. it's easily demonstrable that some of these people have been laying the groundwork for decades.

it comes down to the whole influnce of individuals vs the movement of history arguement. and even if all individuals can do is influence history, i think in the case of the neocons, influence has been enough.


what i'm getting at, is i don't think we can afford the slightest bit of complacentcy or smug assuredness that this is all going to come out in the wash, cause it may not. the situation on earth is getting ever more desperate in terms of resources and enviromental degredation. things like that do not generally lead to greater openness and liberalism in society, any more than the great depression led to an era of world peace.
imagine the position of the german people before ww2. i'm sure they laughed at hitler at first, and were shocked at his gains, kept wondering when everyone was going to snap out of this crazy fatherland shit, and quit talking about the jews. I doubt many of them seriously beleive it could go as far as it did. and then when hitler basicly cancelled the democratic process everyone else's politcal aspirations ceased to make any difference whatsoever.

i do think historical processes move forward, but i also think there's wiggle room there. the collective mind leaves room for fallbacks in moral development before great surges forward.
right now i don't see anyone pushing sufficently for the degree of transparency in the electoral process neccesary to ensure that the whole shebang isn't completely bankrupt in credibility. the neocons have succesfully magicked that issue completely out of the popular discourse.

while we're arguing about morals and how to re approach the christian right, and thinking about 2008. we're dismissing the very strong possibility that the electoral process is essentially dead, making any strategies you might have to win it, utterly moot.


the bottom line here, is that untill we can establish otherwise, (which may or may not be possible at this point)we would do well to think of the united states as being under a propaganda-based dictatorship, and any adepts therin as being in occupied territory.

if you will not open your minds to some seriously scary shit, it will take you off guard if it actually happens.
 
 
--
14:58 / 06.11.04
So what solutions do you have? All I'm getting from you is lots of vague, nebulous theories.

You have to keep in mind that Bush didn't really win by all that much. The way I see it, the country is fairly split in half. If Bush had won by a crushing landslide, then I'd see a cause for concern.
 
 
---
16:40 / 06.11.04
If Bush had won by a crushing landslide, then I'd see a cause for concern.

The cause for concern is the fact that Bush and his administration now have 4 more years to do what they want.
 
 
LVX23
19:59 / 06.11.04
Not exactly. They still have to deal with their constituency, moderate Repubs in Congress, the Pentagon, CIA, PAC's, and special interests, other countries, etc... I'm not saying they won't push through a lot of crap, but they don't have total free reign.

Eventually the US economy is going to collapse and that'll dictate what can and cannot be done.
 
 
vajramukti
05:59 / 07.11.04

I don't think it matters what margin bush secured the election by. at least, it doesn't seem to have mattered to him, or his administration all that much.

if you're saying that he's still hamstrung by other monied interests in the chambers of government, then fine, i can't argue that. what i will argue is that the general public has been effectively excluded from the electoral process in any meaningfull way.

I certainly don't mean to be vague and nebulous. I'm trying to sort out my thoughts after this event just like everyone else. the 'theories' i reffer to such as peak oil, elite control of the media and judiciary, corporate abuse of the public, etc are all documented by independant journalists of all kinds and are easily refferenced if that's what you feel like doing.


i guess what i'm getting at is, we keep going in circles about how to reform the public discourse, and swing the political pendulum back the other way, but....

I mean, one of the voting machines in ohio regestered 1500 some odd votes for bush, 650 or so kerry and there were only 350 people IN THE WHOLE DISTRICT. furthermore it's ILLEGAL TO INSPECT THE MACHINES. is it just some big misunderstanding that the vast majority of 'spoiled' ballots belong to minority voters?

what fucking difference does it make if you could get the whole country to vote for a democrat, if the system won't register the correct number of votes?? was kerry or was kerry not, committed to a full and fair accounting of all the votes? who gives a flying fuck if he wasn't going to win? count the fucking votes, and makes sure they say what they're supposed to. he had a 45 million dollar war chest for that purpose. and what happened? he punks out the day after the election? if that doesn't stink to high heaven, i don't know does.

so not only can't you inquire into the process, but by and large nobody knows they should be inquiring into the process. why exactly are we having the discussion about morals and shit? because cnn interviewed a bunch of crackers and manufactured some polls to tell us that this is what we should talking about? this whole thing is a fucking hallucination. the most devious magick there is quite frankly.

and maybe i'm totally off base. i sure hope so. because there's really no way we'll ever know at this point.


if you're looking for a concrete suggestion, then here it is: examine the scenario that you're being asked to invest in.
 
 
---
11:44 / 07.11.04
vajramukti have you checked Blackboxvoting out yet? I'm sure that something's going to blow up about this eventually. The more of us there are refusing to be quiet about this the more chance something will come of it.
 
 
---
22:48 / 07.11.04
I think there's an increasingly good chance that Bush is fucked this time.

I read something on commondreams.org - I think that referenced the monitoring of our elections by at least a couple of outside sources and we received a terrible rating. The results were reported in Europe but not in our Press - big surprise, I will check the source and post it, if it is still on the net and hasn't disappeared into the black hole yet!

From Blackboxvoting

Where I also found from the same thread :


Election night, I'd been doing live election coverage for WDEV, one of the radio stations that carries my syndicated show, and, just after midnight, during the 12:20 a.m. Associated Press Radio News feed, I was startled to hear the reporter detail how Karen Hughes had earlier sat George W. Bush down to inform him that he'd lost the election. The exit polls were clear: Kerry was winning in a landslide. "Bush took the news stoically," noted the AP report.

But then the computers reported something different. In several pivotal states.

Conservatives see a conspiracy here: They think the exit polls were rigged.

Dick Morris, the infamous political consultant to the first Clinton campaign who became a Republican consultant and Fox News regular, wrote an article for The Hill, the publication read by every political junkie in Washington, DC, in which he made a couple of brilliant points.

"Exit Polls are almost never wrong," Morris wrote. "They eliminate the two major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative turnout of different parts of the state."

He added: "So, according to ABC-TVs exit polls, for example, Kerry was slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points."

Yet a few hours after the exit polls were showing a clear Kerry sweep, as the computerized vote numbers began to come in from the various states the election was called for Bush.



And :

http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm
 
 
Pita
10:23 / 08.11.04
history is nothing more than a series of cycles and we are currently nearing the end of a long hard winter

things may seem at their darkest but we have to recognize its time to begin preparations for spring, if we do not then our harvest will be far from satisfactory

I am not trying to say only do this project, I am saying incorporate some of your strategies into some coordination and we will all find more success in our workings

Squink from irreality.net and I are working out some tech details for a hub site designed for various communities to share info and network together a coalition of the willing

keep up the fighting spirit

i will be in touch....
 
 
Epop Bastart the Justified, I
20:28 / 08.11.04


I'm personally putting a bit of energy behind this meme. I think it's got some legs.
 
  

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