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What went wrong?

 
  

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Nobody's girl
05:38 / 03.11.04
Well, it's come down to Ohio. And as of right now, (7.35am) it's not looking good for Kerry. I really thought we were going to hear a strong mandate for Kerry, but it's not looking that way.

....what happened? I'm so perplexed by this.
 
 
LykeX
06:59 / 03.11.04
Although there's been rumours about election fraud, I'm gonna have to go with general stupidity.
 
 
Ben Danes
07:28 / 03.11.04
General stupidity = moral values? If someone told you that they voted for Bush because of moral values you would have thought they were taking the piss. But apparently moral values was a more important issue than the economy and terrorism/Iraq.
 
 
wicker woman
08:04 / 03.11.04
The worst part being that the leash is now off. Bush now has a four-year mandate to do whatever the fvck he wants without hope of our parole.

At this time, I'd like to issue an apology to the rest of the world. Our shitstorm is your shitstorm.
 
 
Tom Coates
08:19 / 03.11.04
I can't believe it. I am genuinely stunned by the whole debacle.
 
 
Z. deScathach
08:21 / 03.11.04
Actually, exit polls have shown that "moral values" was of huge concern to many voters. It does seem like women's right to control their bodies and just who is sleeping with whom was more important than war, health care, or a national economy for many persons. The reporters expressed surprise at that. It wasn't surprising to me. Clinton was almost impeached for lying about getting a blowjob from an intern. I wish that I could say that we in America don't suck. We suck.
 
 
rizla mission
08:21 / 03.11.04
So far this is about the most depressing result imaginable.

Fraud, deception and gross apathy I could get my head around, but to think the US public turned out in record numbers, including however many newly registered voters...

..and the fucking chuckleheads voted for Bush.

Not by a big enough margin for us all to immediately concede the fate of the civilized world and go drink ourselves to death in a dark hole, but by just enough to ensure that things are slowly going to get more and more fucked as our hope something good might happen slowly drains away.

I've always tried to avoid the whole "Americans are all dumb" mentality, but god, it's such a tragedy that so many ordinary people in the USA don't seem to realise what damage another Bush presidency is going to do to their own lives.. it's obscene that Bush's sponsors and powerbrokers haven't even bothered trying to offer the people a carrot, instead they've just beaten them senseless with a fucking stick and haven't even tried to hide their greed and self-interest.. and instead of kicking them out on their ass like in any sensible democratic country, so many citizens have just followed through and voted for them. The American public have once and for all proved themselves prize fucking chumps, and Bush & friends are just gonna be laughing in their faces for another four years.. it's so depressing.

Sorry for being so defeatist before the final score is actually is, but best get it out of the way now I guess..
 
 
subcultureofone
08:41 / 03.11.04
who was it who said they were making up beds for americans fleeing to other countries?

i'm very unhappy being surrounded by morons.
 
 
Lurid Archive
09:03 / 03.11.04
I can't say I'm that surprised, but what do people think are the decisive voter issues? Fear - I mean, TWAT - or the relative religious and moral positions or stances of Bush and Kerry? Or something else?
 
 
alas
09:06 / 03.11.04
As I said in convo, I worked--SITTING OUTSIDE IN THE RAIN IN OHIO!!!!---for 13.5 fucking FUCKING hours yesterday. I am exhausted. Only 1 in 10 young voters voted. Damn. Damn. Damn. I am not feeling optimistic about the provisional ballots that are still being counted--and which take 45 minute to count, each. (There are 400,000 of them).

And we passed an amendment to the Ohio constitution banning gay marriage and anything that might have a whiff of unmarried married--even two old people living together who can't get married because they'd lose their health care benefits are now officially defined as having no rights that the rest of us are bound to respect . . .

(But can we give it up for Barak Obama?! Wooo-Hoo. I must cling to that small bright spot.)

I can't believe this fucking country.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:34 / 03.11.04
Where are you getting that 400k figure? If you're right, Kerry has a chance. If it's 200k (which is what the Plain Dealer says) then he's already lost on the raw numbers.
 
 
subcultureofone
10:01 / 03.11.04
so hillary and barak in 2008 then?

they keep announcing that florida did not have any voting problems, which is not true.

the county i live in [alachua in north central florida] always votes democratic [57% kerry] but is completely surrounded by republican counties. already, residents are sniping at each other- one person said they were embarrassed to be an american and was told, 'be glad you live in a country where the government won't kill you for saying that. if you don't like it, you can leave'. yep, intolerance has been re-elected.

looks like we'll all be wearing the blue dress for four more years.
 
 
gummi
10:20 / 03.11.04
There's a possibility that the electorate who voted for Bush have not been hoodwinked. Maybe they don't mind the lies, maybe they like Bush's actions. They could be intelligent non-idiotic sadists.

Abu Ghraib, Lost Jobs, Iraqi Catastrophe, Huge Deficit and Open Corruption. Not to mention a leader who plays to the "Reductionist Like Me" crowd. It's amazing how much people will tolerate a national humiliation thinking it's a sign of strength.

Oh, and the commentators think the wedge issues like Gay Marriage managed to help Bush a great deal. That will setback a lot of things for 12 years or more.
 
 
sleazenation
10:24 / 03.11.04
...

I'm looking for a bright side.

Not sure I'll find one.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:40 / 03.11.04
who was it who said they were making up beds for americans fleeing to other countries?

That would be me. Cos I know for a fact I'd be getting the fuck out.

Jesus. What a terrible day for- well, everything, really.
 
 
subcultureofone
10:45 / 03.11.04
and congress has gotten even more conservative. i wonder if passport offices will get a lot of calls today.
 
 
illmatic
11:23 / 03.11.04
Bad luck, America. My commiserations, if you live there, if you're unfortunate enough to stuck with that shit bag for another four. It's bad luck for all of us as well, but hell....
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:44 / 03.11.04
Yeah, according to a Newsweek on BBC1 just now, it was *moral* issues that swung it in the heartlands, plus the feeling that in wartime, it would have been *un-American* to replace the commander-in-chief, as well as demoralising for the troops. The latter, at a big push, is perhaps understandable, but the former, let's face it, is just fucking pathetic.

If we're assuming it's all over bar the shouting now, then I suppose it was Bush's decision to get so entirely on side with the Born Again vote that swung it for him, in the end. What would make that particulary worrying, if true, is that whatever else happens in terms of political events, those people are not going anywhere, nor are they likely to change their voting habits the next time round.

So there goes the neighbourhood I suppose.
 
 
+#'s, - names
11:54 / 03.11.04
I have no idea what went wrong. I'm in Ohio, almost everyone I know is a Kerry supporter, but then I am also in Cuyahoga county, which supported kerry 2:1. Maybe the Guardian's cute letter campaign backfired? Maybe people are tired of living and want to bring on the end of the world? Who knows.

I would like to apologize to the rest of the world for what we are going to do, because I really don' t think the American people have any idea what we have done.

Oh, I am a duel citizen of the US and Sweden. I think it's time to get the hell out for a while. With the EU I am pretty much free to travel around the continent correct? Anyone able to suggest a good place to go pick oranges for the next 4 years?
 
 
subcultureofone
12:08 / 03.11.04
Maybe people are tired of living and want to bring on the end of the world?

apparently, some are: goths for bush
 
 
FinderWolf
12:24 / 03.11.04
OK, Goths for Bush is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time, and brought an unexpected moment of levity to my heart in this dark time. They're happy Bush is Prez (and might be again) because they love gloom & doom, and who brings more gloom & doom than Bush? They want more depressed, morbid Goth teenagers (and adults), and who better to create an environment for nihilism and fear, sadness and emptiness...? Oy....
 
 
diz
12:42 / 03.11.04
I really thought we were going to hear a strong mandate for Kerry, but it's not looking that way.

....what happened? I'm so perplexed by this.


no offense, but why did you think that? i thought Kerry had a chance, but he's never been anything but the underdog here. that, in and of itself, speaks sad volumes about the state of the nation, of course, but the idea that there would be some massive Kerry mandate never crossed my mind.

basically, just over half of the American people are stupid. really, really stupid. actively, belligerently, proudly stupid.

the stupid people are especially prevalent in the middle.

oh, and, by the way, if anyone accuses me of liberal hipster elitism or classism or anything like that, i will fucking scream. if this election doesn't convince you that Average Americans Joe and Jane Sixpack from the heartland of the good ol' U.S. of A. are beyond saving, then i don't know what to say.

this country is fucked, i tell you.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:00 / 03.11.04
just over half of the American people are stupid. really, really stupid. actively, belligerently, proudly stupid.

I am quite saddened to have to agree with this. My boss is one of them. I'm afraid many of my relatives are, too. Not only do these people not know anything, they don't want to know. They won't listen, and might very well become violent if you try to tell them.


For the record, do remember that there are bright blue patches in the midst of all those "red" states. I'm in Austin, Texas, sitting two blocks from the big pretty house Bush lived in when he was Governor. Austin is fairly liberal. Austin has lots of college students and hippies. Austin is in Travis County. Travis County elected Kerry.

Unfortunately, Travis County is an anomaly in Texas.

Sigh...
 
 
gummi
13:07 / 03.11.04
I was just sent this link. Granted, it's just one state, but it's really interesting. Both the questions and answers pretty much confirm the outcome.

The results on Religion and Most Important Issue are worth looking at.

And by the way, calling folks who voted for Bush stupid is just wrong. I'm not an American and I don't like Bush. Venting bile at the Bush voters goes a long way to reveal why they voted that way.
 
 
Skeleton Camera
13:09 / 03.11.04
Just wanted to point out something interesting: the MSNBC network has been saying that Bush won Ohio since last night. HE HASN'T. When I last checked (last night/this morning) they were the ONLY ones saying such things when EVERY OTHER NEWS SOURCE had different data. Talk about applied memetics...and it makes me very suspicious of MSNBC.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:16 / 03.11.04
As someone who lives here, I can tell you that most Americans are utterly clueless about what's really going on, what the rest of the world thinks, or what their government is doing. Stupid; okay, perhaps not the right term. But definitely ignorant. In many cases, willfully so.

America has perfected the "bread and circuses" meme. We play our video games and watch our movies and eat our steak and drink our beers, and then we go vote for Bush, because hey, he's a good guy, and we don't want them All Kay-da bastards to be terrorizing us again, and Lord knows we don't want them faggots gettin' married. God bless America!

I actually think I'm going to be sick.
 
 
misterpc
13:20 / 03.11.04
Have been in transit this morning, so missed all the "excitement." But I did watch some news last night - some interviews with Americans living in London, preparing for an overnight party to catch the election results. Admittedly not a representative sample, but both of the two interviewed said that the major difference they'd found while living in the UK was that they felt better informed here. More balanced, more in-depth coverage.

This chimes with my experience of the US media (via satellite, two trips to the US, plus downloading clips from the Daily Show whenever I have the chance). It strikes me that the American public are served very poorly by their media.

I'm no fan of America. Hell, I'm no fan of the majority of Americans. But I have trouble with damning them all to hell as fanatical morons.

I have no doubt that Bush's re-election will be bad news, short term, for the US and most of the world. But that's not what American politics is about. It isn't about politics. It isn't even about entertainment. The political conventions weren't theatre, so much as they were sporting events. Banners, music, people cheering for 'their' side. The responses on both sides - the virulence I've heard reported, the unswerving loyalties, etc - suggest deep-rooted support that goes beyond reason - the 'faith-based' politics that Suskind wrote about so eloquently a few weeks back.

Is that what's happened to America? That politics is no longer about issues, but about tribal allegiances? There's nothing wrong about those allegiances - try to persuade me that I should support anybody other than Crystal Palace and see the blanks you get - but it strikes me that it's a really really scary basis for a political system.

I'd love to hear comments on this from any Americans tuning in... now I've got to get back to work!
 
 
FinderWolf
13:41 / 03.11.04
Also on the lighter side, Paris Hilton did not vote, though she posed in Puffy's VOTE OR DIE ad campaign to get out minority and urban voters. All that money, all that free time, and she didn't vote. Not that I really expected her to. But it's still funny & sad.

The Onion has a headline today: US IMPRESSES WORLD WITH ITS EFFORTS TO HOLD DEMOCRATIC ELECTION (I'm paraphrasing slightly but that's pretty much the jist of it)

On a serious note, people do care about issues in this country. It's just that 50% of them are deluded, ignorant and misinformed. The Presidential debates this year were the most substantive, issue-laden discussions in recent history.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:42 / 03.11.04
Everything in America is like sports.

Especially politics.
 
 
Simplist
13:54 / 03.11.04
I don't have time to read the thread just now (already late for work), so I'm just responding to the title. Short form, in retrospect I'm not sure why we ever thought Kerry would win in the first place. The polls have been pretty clear all along--Bush's lead was "within the margin of error", but he was still at least a point or two ahead in the vast, vast majority of polls released over the last month. I have to admit that I succumbed pretty egregiously to wishful thinking, believing the pollyanna analyses posted on Daily Kos and other soft-headed liberal sites. Won't happen again, let me tell you that right now...
 
 
ibis the being
14:36 / 03.11.04
Hey, just to keep the threads updated, Kerry's officially conceded.

I suppose it was Bush's decision to get so entirely on side with the Born Again vote that swung it for him, in the end. What would make that particulary worrying, if true, is that whatever else happens in terms of political events, those people are not going anywhere, nor are they likely to change their voting habits the next time round.

I beleive you're exactly right, Alex. Bush was stumping hard for the Born Again vote, and it was reported that 1 of 5 Evangelical Christians came out and voted Bush. Those are the people who cited "morality" at the exit polls. Those are the people who voted in a ban on gay marriage in 9 of 11 states with that on the ballot - the last time I checked the news.

Interestingly enough, "moral values" was the top priority in exit polls, followed by "economy" and then Iraq. That means they weren't talking about being a strong commander-in-chief when they voted on moral character. They were talking - I think it's fairly safe to speculate - about persecuting homosexuality, banning abortion, erasing the separation of church & state, and not getting blowjobs in the White House, Heaven Forbid.

That's what I find so upsetting about this Bush win. It's the Religious Right taking control of the nation, and that's scary and makes me angry as well. The funny thing is everyone dismissed the gay marriage issue as one that would actually "matter" in the Presidential election. Yet it may have been a big factor. The gay marriage bans being on those 11 ballots mobilized the Christian - I'm self-censoring, I'll use a nice word - Evangelicals to get out and vote.

What adds to the scary factor is that the other guy - Kerry - was a Christian, was a Catholic, was personally against gay marriage and most abortion, and he just wasn't enough of a fanatic to even stand a chance with those people.

I heard some Democrat on the news, wish I'd caught his name, who said that the frightening fact at this poing is that you pretty much have to say you'll ban abortion to get the Presidency. Kerry's views were more popular on nearly everything else - economy, health care, jobs - but he wasn't "socially conservative" (read fundamentalist Christian) enough to be electable.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:38 / 03.11.04
>> Interestingly enough, "moral values" was the top priority in exit polls, followed by "economy" and then Iraq. That means they weren't talking about being a strong commander-in-chief when they voted on moral character. They were talking - I think it's fairly safe to speculate - about persecuting homosexuality, banning abortion, erasing the separation of church & state, and not getting blowjobs in the White House, Heaven Forbid.


Sad but true. Sad but true (at least at this point in our nation's history)....
 
 
alas
15:05 / 03.11.04
Part of me is always saying "don't demonize the opposition, work to understand them." "Don't just call them stupid, that's counterproductive . . ."

However, just READ the summaries of these studies conducted by PIPA, the Program on International Policy Attidudes. (Read the article under "What's New" on the main page.) Bush supporters are, especially, incredibly incredibly misinformed, and (from my own experience) it does feel like a willful ignorance, an arrogant, determined ignorance in many cases.

And if you say, "well, that's the media's fault, too," I agree, definitely. But I don't think that's all there is to it. I'm sure it has something to do with our power in the world. Noam Chomsky once said, "The more power and privilege you have, the less you have to think, because you can just do what you want."

There's something stupid-making about the kind of power we have, at the moment. I fundamentally believe that. We don't perceive ourselves as paying a price for our actions--and, in fact, we often aren't the ones paying the price for our decisions, our bad habits. We have cheap oil and make/purchase huge gas guzzling cars even as the oceans are rising and the weather is dramatically changing. We kill and maim a hundred thousand people in Iraq to continue servicing our addiction to that cheap oil, and only lose a thousand or so impoverished soldiers and reservists, who would have probably just lived a life of grinding poverty here, anyway.

So, the band plays on and we all decide life boats aren't really that important, and besides they take up too much space on deck ... iceberg, schmiceberg.
 
 
ibis the being
15:15 / 03.11.04
Alas, all of what you're saying makes rational sense, but I think it may be totally beside the point. As was discussed in this thread, Bush supporters are uninformed not because they've been given the wrong facts, but because they don't believe in facts.

I know this firsthand. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christan household that taught me rational thinking, the Age of Enlightenment, and reason over faith were sinful acts against God. That is what we're contending with in America right now.
 
 
LVX23
15:17 / 03.11.04
Diebold
 
  

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