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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

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03:51 / 14.10.04

I am about 1/3 through this book and i am enjoying it very much. Some of the reviews i read seemd to think this book was good, but had "too much information" or something. I dont' agree, I find the footnotes very entertaining. Who else is reading, or has read this book?

09:53 / 14.10.04

oooh I saw it in waterstones on the weekend and was intriuged by the different covers... I read a review that described it as an adult Harry Potter which kind of put me off?
I know your just starting but is it worth getting Orqwith? is the adult Harry Potter a fair comparison (the review was a good one- i just didn't like idea?)..
Can you give a brief summery of the plot?
so many questions...

10:16 / 14.10.04

I really liked it. It is a book about two men who manage to perform magic instead of merely talking about it, for the first time in several hundred years.

Summary is pretty much as follows:
When the Duke of Wellington asks one of them if it's possible to kill a man using magic, the magician in question relies "A magician might, but a gentleman never would."

And it's all pretty much on that level. Densely researched and really slick.

11:30 / 14.10.04

I'm reading it at the moment and I'm enjoying it very much. The 'adult Harry Potter' thing is bollocks, though, which is just as well because I loathe HP. I wouldn't describe it as great literature, whatever that means, but it's amusing and entertaining.

15:46 / 14.10.04

I must say I do rather fancy this, though I am put off by its enormous size in hardback - I think I'll be waiting for the pb...

The Guardian review said that it doesn't really show any sense of when to stop adding new characters, etc., in - that it's too cluttered, basically. Is this a fair criticism?

Keith, like a scientist

16:32 / 14.10.04

I finished this the other day and was really sad when it was over.
I was thinking about starting a topic about, but wasn't sure if it would be met with some anti-Gaiman backlash (since he recommends it, etc.).

I love the footnotes, and simple ease of the storytelling.
Can't wait for more to finish it, so we can discuss the turnout of it...

Good news: Susanna Clarke says her next book will be set in the same world. Hurray!

Keith, like a scientist

16:36 / 14.10.04

in terms of the Harry Potter thing...my thinking is like this:

if in harry potters's world, dumbledore died or took off and all of the magic in the world dissipated because of his loss. A few hundred years later, magic is just a myth, but a couple guys try to bring it back.

it's very old school English style in terms of writing. elegant.

06:29 / 15.10.04

KCC - I am put off by its enormous size in hardback

It does make it a little difficult to carry around but the size seems to be due to the thickness of the paper rather than the number of pages. I suspect that the paperback will be much, much thinner, so you may be right to wait.

It's a fairly light read but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Keith, like a scientist

17:49 / 29.10.04

those of you who were still reading it...done yet? care to discuss?

19:38 / 03.11.04

What a brilliant book. Was so immersed in it - it was heart breaking when it finished.

I love the way she creates this brilliantly accesibly Jane Austen kind of tone but its still very modern.

And the fairy stuff rocked - i'm obsessed with the idea of mirrors with hidden roads like some crazy Escher print behind them.

Do you think she'll do another? It took a decade for this one to happen.....

Keith, like a scientist

02:46 / 04.11.04

she says her next book is in the same world, but a couple years on...who knows who will show up in it...

but yes...it was so emotional at the end...

and that brief glimpse of the King...so tantalizing.

19:40 / 04.11.04

i know the section with the king and the corpse was brilliant.

and yes it really was emotional at the end - the seperation was quite sad.

So pleased sequel is in the running - you've made me a happy girl

00:18 / 07.11.04

here i go starting a topic and forgetting all about it. i havent even been online for a week or so. I finished the book about a week ago and i loved it. a lot of the criticisim about it getting too in depth and too many footnotes is shit. Lord of the Rings, as much of a classic as it is suffers far worse from the "too much information" affliction, and it it considered THE definitive work of fantasy (is gaiman suggesting that Strange & Norrell is better in his dust-jacket quote?).
i also very much enjoyed the books take on the world of fairy, especially the steven black subplot. the addition of minor characters worked it the books favor because almost all the minor characters were interesting and added to my enyoyment of the book. the ending was sad but not depressing and left me hungy for a sequel, which if what the other posters are saying is true, will happen. as far as the "adult harry potter" remarks go, i do not agree. harry potters world has magic as a secret thing that nobody knows about except magicians. in jonathan strange magic is just a part of everyday life. yes, practical magic had fallen out of use but it was seen as an important part of englands history. and theoretical magic was a respectable schollarly study.
one aspect of magic in the world of the book that i found especially interesting was how magic was not condemmed or rejected by christians. it wasn't exactly embraced by the church, butit was not considered a sin, it was accepted. in the real world people like norrell would have been burned at the stake. i would like to see a few threads on this book to discuss diferent aspects.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:35 / 08.12.04

If anyone's interested (and much as I hate to pimp for them) Borders have it as their half-price promotion at the moment. I bought it today, and will post more when I've actually read the bugger, though one of my best mates heartily recommends it.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:20 / 29.01.05

It took a while for me to get into it, I didn't find any of the characters that interesting to start with, indeed it was only really with the second part and the introduction of Jonathan Strange that the book picked up for me, Clarke made too good a job of making Mr Norrell dry, dull and not as clever as he thought he was. Also, Clarke's writing style, with it's echo of Dickens, grated as well, it took a hundred pages or so for me to synch myself to it.

After that though I really enjoyed it. I think Clarke aimed for an ambitious scale of story and didn't quite reach it, but I enjoyed it none the less. I felt the ending was odd, as though Clarke had intended to write only one book but then at the last minute thought she could write a sequel.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

17:12 / 01.02.05

Finished it a couple of weeks ago, really enjoyed it.

I must admit it took me a while to get into it, but by the time Strange came along I was thoroughly enjoying myself. I really enjoyed when the thistle-haired gentleman surrounded Strange with his own little world of darkness.

I think I may read it again, something I rarely do so immediately.

Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!

07:09 / 18.02.05

The characterisation is absolutely superb, allowing me to feel compassion for characters I never thought I would.

The writing is top-notch, immersing me so totally that the length of the book was in no way a drag, but rather quite speedy.

Where's the other 1/4 of this book? It seems like my copy is missing a climax somewhere...

Clarke's claim that her next book will be set in the same universe instills fear in me, the fear that we'll have to wait until the third book for that epic climax with the King we all know is looming for Norrell and Strange.

02:52 / 21.02.05

I read it recently and was very happy with it.

Period details settled into the narrative so snugly that it felt natural. Sometimes heavy research results in stuff that is a little top-heavy with historically accurate detail.

I really loved how Strange's madness developed. His pursuit of magic without instruction or books had only one place to go, but it still surprised me when he made the leap. He and Norrell were well paired, two sides of the same coin. One necessitated the other...yadda yadda yadda.

Oh yeah...did I mention how I liked Strange's madness?

09:24 / 14.03.05

Spoilers therein:

Just finished reading this last night... loved it. I think Childermass was my favourite character, I liked the way he was clearly brighter, more resourceful, and more interesting than either of the main characters, but his social status as a servant kept him sidelined and forced to operate within certain limits. Stephen Black was cool as well, liked how his first actions as King were to tidy the place up and bring some order to the brugh, according to his impecable society butler mannerisms established at his first appearance. Liked the fact that the Raven King was a geordie as well, Newcastle as the magical capital of England...

Interestingly, I think that Clarke has, seemingly by accident, written one of the most insightful books on the practice of magic I've read in ages. Loved all of that stuff about stone speaking to water, and making alliances with trees and rivers, the language of birds, twisted branches against the clouds. All the stuff about how magic is bigger, wilder and weirder the magicians think it is and allow it to be. The idea of nature as a form of magic that is being worked all of the time, etc...

The fairy stuff was done really well. It didnt seem at all twee or hackneyed in that sub-Vertigo/Gaiman sort of way, which it could easily have fallen into. The whole Sidhe/Sheeda thing seems to be turning up in a lot of places at the moment... Hmm... Perhaps I should boil an insane lady's mouse into a small vial of liquid and see what happens...

Tryphena Absent

15:18 / 14.03.05

Interestingly, I think that Clarke has, seemingly by accident, written one of the most insightful books on the practice of magic I've read in ages

I haven't got very far through this but I think that's what attracted me so heavily to the first chapter or so. It's very rare that a writer can get the sense of practicality and inspiration across, the notion that the practice is so important. It felt like she knew the reality of the possibilities that the actual practice presents you with as well as the fiction she was creating. From what you say it's a thread that runs through the whole book... I'll come back and discuss when I've managed to read it (so next year then!).

19:19 / 24.04.05

I finished it today and liked it very much. When I bought it in feb, I stopped after about 35 pages, but when I took it up again last week, it got better and better (roughly every 100 pages, it gets more "gotta keep on reading"). It was nice, that most characters were not just "good" or "evil", but human and believable. And when somebody stepped out of a mirror at the end in Italy, my eyes even got a bit misty!

So, thanks for starting this thread, which made me curious enough to buy it, and let´s hope, there´ll be a new book soon!

http://www.jonathanstrange.com

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

21:42 / 24.04.05

Possible Spoilers Herein:

Loved the book.

I totally agree with Gypsy Lantern. The fact that the book really lacked a clear "system" of magic was a nice touch. In most other fantasy books you see clear paradigm or style for how magic is performed, whether it's Jordan's Aes Sedai (which I love because its so much fun to say), Caine's Wardens, or Rowling's wizards/witches/whatevers. In Jonathan Strange, magic had no real system to it. Individual spells had their own basic structure, and some had some similarities (the map stuff, for instance), but there was no overall, overarching paradigm to it. This, however, fit with the idea that magicians over the years had discovered or formulated their own spells, so there wasn't a real reason for everything to work under the same structure.

Well...ok, not 100% true. By the end of the book I found that things were starting to come together. The idea that the various elements of nature were teaching the spells was quite neat.

I also really enjoyed the sheer enormity of the different spells performed. And in such roundabout ways. The horses in the harbor were damnably cool. Though I think my favourite was Strange's knack for teleporting scenery around...and his total disregard for what happened after things were moved. That had me laughing for quite a while.

I agree further with GL: Childermass was one of the coolest characters in the book. He was about the only fully sane person in the novel.

09:23 / 05.05.05

i read this book maybe a month ago, after enjoying the first chapter randomly in a bookshop, then later coming upon the beginnings of this thread. i would recommend it to any harry potter reader, and i can certainly see a valid comparison--not in setting or style, but both books are deceptively light reading with real magic hidden inside. both reflect the cultural acceptance of magic as romantic but possible. i didnt enjoy harry potter so i didnt keep up on the series, so my opinion may be illinformed: i think this book takes a further step towards legitimizing general magic use. with a nationalistic bent to boot!

the setting was believable and engaging due to its brilliant balance between history and fancy. certainly worthwhile building more plots in the same world, though i deplore the inability of authors who write about magic of stopping at one.

characterization was also largely good, though i enjoyed her interpretations of byron and wellington rather more than most of her original characters. mr norrell was by far my favourite character and his disappearance halfway through in favour of mr stranges gallavantings was a source of great disappointment. i was also disappointed with the later mr laschelles, as he began as an inspiring skeptic.

ms clarkes descriptions of and philosophizings on practical magic were often entertaining and even useful, though few of the spells themselves were as inspiring as she clearly wanted them to be. or perhaps i am mistaken, and the superiority of faerie magic that was apparent to this reader was intended to be obvious. i did enjoy how the books episodes of magic were mostly not climactic, but interlocked smoothly with grand balls and carriage trips. in fact it was difficult for me to discern how much ms clarke is familiar with the actual practice of magic; she described a number of excellent principles, and some of her images were powerful enough to be part of a working system of magic, but certain omissions betrayed her desire to see characters performing feats she didnt actually understand.

its amusing to watch the video--at the official site linked above--in which the author gushes about the duke of wellington.

news of the obligatory movie...so far not much news.

22:37 / 10.05.05

I did really enjoy this, but as others have mentioned, the climax was somewhat anticlimactic. But if she is indeed going to expand the world further than that makes a certain amount of sense; I was a bit annoyed we didn't get more of The Raven King, but of course it's what you don't get told that interests you more (like Hitchcock's 'never explode the bomb' rule).

The best thing about it was all the bruck, the noise, the errata, the kipple, the... I don't know what the right word is, but basically all the side details created a very satisfying environment, in much the way China Mieville's stuff does (although Clarke's writing is VERY different in style and tone).

Have no idea where the Harry Potter comparisons come from - no real similarity. It's more of a mix between Dickens and Peake. Well, not really, but I do like making 'it's like x meets y on turtle crack!!' type-comments.

04:58 / 07.07.05

Sequel talk from the official website

The next book will be set in the same world and will probably start a few years after Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell finishes. I feel very much at home in the early nineteenth century and am not inclined to leave it. I doubt that the new book will be a sequel in the strictest sense. There are new characters to be introduced, though probably some old friends will appear too. I'd like to move down the social scale a bit. Strange and Norrell were both rich, with pots of money and big estates. Some of the characters in the second book have to struggle a bit harder to keep body and soul together. I expect there'll be more about John Uskglass, the Raven King, and about how magic develops in England.

16:58 / 05.09.05

The paperback came out today for those of you that thought the hardback looked a wee bit cumbersome .

Its also on offer for £3.99 Waterstones book of the week. Marvelous! I was quite chuffed cos i've been on the look out for the paperback for a good 6 months- now if i can just get through cloud atlas i may be able to contribute to this thread again - a year on from my last post!

09:14 / 06.09.05

Yes, I picked it up yesterday... it is so unfair that I can't spare the time to get properly into it! I want nothing more than a free weekend (pref. rainy, with crumpets etc.) to really have a good go at it - maybe I should wait another couple of months...

14:50 / 06.09.05

ah- i was thinking you may also be buying it this week Kit-Cat. I've got a week in cornwall in october to jump into this- Padstow, log fires, a good book and crumpits... what more could i want?

20:29 / 06.09.05

"paperback came out today"

No, it didn´t. I bought my paperback edition seven months ago (01 feb 2005).

09:22 / 07.09.05

weird- did you get it from a book club or summit? The official paperback release was monday honest- check this link and look at the release date (right hand side).

I've been waiting for it for ages- but i know that book clubs often offer up exclusive paperbacks long before they hit the shops- or is it an imported copy?

09:30 / 07.09.05

sorry Mistoffeles just saw your based in Berlin- maybe you guys got an earlier paperback release than the UK- remember not all Films/ Videos/ books have the same release dates across the world rather than jumping down my throat. You could end up looking like an arse.

11:43 / 07.09.05

Well *I* got a white paperback edition over a year ago so Nyeur Yar-boo-sucks, AND I'm in the UK, I'm just dead effing special. And have a friend who runs a bookshop...

Can't wait for the sequel. Cheerful cockney magicians and down-at-heel hearth magic, woot!

19:12 / 07.09.05

sorry Mistoffeles just saw your based in Berlin- maybe you guys got an earlier paperback release than the UK- remember not all Films/ Videos/ books have the same release dates across the world rather than jumping down my throat. You could end up looking like an arse.

But I bought an english edition paperback (Bloomsbury)! Weird.

Keith, like a scientist

16:22 / 01.12.05

A very in depth examination of this book was conducted as a sort of seminar format. Some people asked specific questions about themes and historical aspects of the book. Clarke then wrote a response in which she discussed a lot of the history and intentions.

It can be found here.

18:28 / 16.12.05

Put it down about 40pages in and havn't picked it back up( to be fair i was reading another couple of books at the time), but thanks to some of the other posters I will be picking it back up and starting again.
I'd hate to miss out on a good book just because of its lumbering start!
Cheers

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