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Could four more years of the Beast be a good thing?

 
  

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ibis the being
17:43 / 11.10.04
I don't classify contraceptives as "medical care" (in the sense that medication and surgery are "medical care"), and for those who use them to lessen the pain of menstration, there are other medicines available, right?

Well, at the risk of extreme snarkiness, it doesn't matter what you classify contraceptives as, because you're not a doctor. When I say "medical reasons" I'm not talking about cramps. I'm talking about endometriosis, in which uterine tissue grows outside the uterus itself and causes extreme pain and the risk of ovarian cysts - I'm talking about irregular bleeding, anemia, real medical conditions that two ibuprofen aren't going to fix. Oral contraceptives help a great deal for many women with those problems, and regardless of whether there is some other pill out there, OCPs should be an option. The "moral" argument against them just has no legs to stand on. This is the essence of the Pro-Choice position - not We Have the Right to Kill Babies, but women have the right to make their own choices about their own well being.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:45 / 11.10.04
Ahnold takes the lead! JohnnyO How "sizeable" do you really think this constituency, that believes in the Rapture and would vote for anyone who will bring it closer, is?

If it's sizeable enough for Rove to think it worth courting them (passim in articles about the Dubya team's tactics in the 2000 campaign) then it's sizeable enough to worry about.
 
 
Ganesh
19:28 / 11.10.04
But wasn't that because they couldn't tell if it would be safe for people under 16? It sounds like you are claiming that the three made their decision based on personal stance rather than medical evidence, which I am not seeing evidence of. But maybe I'm looking at the wrong article.

No, merely missing my point: I'm not claiming the three advisers were misguided in their decision; I'm pointing out that they were massively outnumbered by their fellow advisers who did believe - having taken all factors into consideration - that the over-the-counter pill should be made available ie. the FDA made its final ruling despite overwhelming medical advice. It went with the minority opinion, for reasons which (given the relatively free availability of all manner of 'toxic' substances to minors) I find a tad unconvincing.
 
 
Ganesh
19:50 / 11.10.04
I find absolutely nothing wrong with this ... I don't classify contraceptives as "medical care" (in the sense that medication and surgery are "medical care"), and for those who use them to lessen the pain of menstration, there are other medicines available, right?

As a(n admittedly NHS) doctor, I can find a whole lot wrong with doctors taking on the role of 'moral' guardians or gatekeepers, as opposed to facilitators/providers of medical care - but this may be a larger topic for a separate thread. I'm also intrigued by what seems to me to be a somewhat narrow, idiosyncratic view of what constitutes medical care (with or without scarequotes). Suffice to say, I disagree.

(And no, there aren't a whooole lotta oestrogen-based preparations widely available, no.)

Fact is, there is still a great portion of the country that is pro-life. You guys are sitting there telling me they are wrong/foolish to hold these views, but they tell me the same thing about you. To me, both stances stink of irresponsibility, but if the pro-life outnumber the pro-choice, then--wait, this sounds familiar.

Another slight tangent, but I'm not sure anyone's claiming pro-life viewpoints are "wrong/foolish". When it comes to limiting the ability of others to make decisions about their own bodies, however, I'd tend to be more guided by what's legal rather than what's snapshot majority opinion at any given point.

Perhaps a separate thread on the "irresponsibility" of allowing/disallowing abortion is in order?
 
  

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