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Underground > Radio & Music >

Robbie goes kinda Joy Division, yes?

  
  

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■
21:19 / 03.10.04
That song Robbie Williams is whoring around right now.. When I first heard it I was sure it was someone doing an uptempo Joy Division cover. I am very wrong.
Why did I think this, and am I alone? I want to hate it, but it is triggering something that makes me dislike him less than usual.
 
 
Mike Modular
22:44 / 03.10.04
My initial reaction was more Robbie-does-Kraftwerk and, against all my natural instincts, didn't mind it so much. But, then I listened closer and decided that it was pretty uninspired and you can't escape the fact that it's still his generic transatlantic-middle-of-the-road voice, which does annoy me so. Perhaps if he'd tried some vocoder action I'd give it a second thought. And lyrically, it's some shit about turning on the radio and hearing some great life-saving song, isn't it? If I thought he'd ever heard Resonance FM I might give him the benefit of the doubt... So, conclusion: I still hate him.

Letter in current issue of Viz: 'Robbie Williams says: "let me entertain you". OK Robbie, in your own time'...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:26 / 04.10.04
It's a collaboration with Stephen "Tintin" Duffy, one of the founder members of Duran duran (before they hit big), and geezer behind folk-pop gurus The Lilac Time. Me and the spooky one really like it... but then we like '80s pop, so...

And I have no idea what the song's about. Unusually for Williams, it's fairly impenetrable...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:41 / 04.10.04
He has by far and away the most punchable face in pop. Odious, terrible twat.

And does it FUCK sound like Joy Division.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:46 / 04.10.04
It reminds me of 'The Lebanon' by The Human League.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:49 / 04.10.04
It reminds me how much I've enjoyed him being off my cultural radar.
 
 
+#'s, - names
23:32 / 04.10.04
is this the guy that just got married to Jay Lo? what song are you talking about?
 
 
Spaniel
15:11 / 05.10.04
Nope, he's a british pop star/coke fiend/nob.
 
 
_Boboss
15:45 / 05.10.04
it's not the worst song of all time

that's rock dj

but it's very very close.

it saddens me rather a lot that tintin's biggest hit is going to be this piece of subnumanoid pssh.
 
 
_Boboss
15:46 / 05.10.04
joy division?

use of the word 'radio' in the refrain, just like one of their biggest. i can't think of any other possible similarity.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:22 / 05.10.04
It makes you want to end it all?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
20:39 / 06.10.04
I've never understood this horrified antipathy people have towards Williams. So you don't like his music... OK. Comes across as smug/self-pitying? Probably. These are all valid reasons for disliking a pop star/celebrity, if you're into that kind of thing, and I know a lot of you are. But the kind of rabid hatred the guy seems to inspire? It feels... a little creepy. Can't see what he's done to deserve that.

Let's see, is there anyone I hate that much... I go on and on about the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but that's really just to make my other half laugh - I don't like their music, except for 'Suck My Kiss', which is the only example of their take on funk-metal that I can handle listening to, and probably 'Scar Tissue', because when it was released it was so nice to see Navarro out of the band (and hopefully into a Jane's reunion, thought Jack - see how long that lasted...) and Frusciante having sorted his life out (hear that, addiction? we got another one back! so fuck y'all in the ass with a broken bottle!)... but I don't actually hate them.

Jon Bon Jovi - now, I don't like the guy, chiefly because of the "sure, I fuck groupies - the wife's used to it by now. I mean, what's she gonna do?" remarks of a couple of years ago, and because he waxed his chest to do a jeans advert... but do I hate him? Hmmm. I think I used to. OK, JBJ, for the above reasons - oh, and for sacking Alec Jon Such, I guess.

So why do you hate Robbie Williams? Vitriol aside - is it his music? His attitude? The well-publicised depression? Well-publicised recovering addict? That's a point - is it the fact that the above is so self-publicised? Tell me! Tell me now!
 
 
Miss K
22:27 / 06.10.04
I think it's mainly because he's a bit of a twerp
 
 
Mike Modular
23:16 / 06.10.04
It's all the things you've mentioned, Jack, but especially his face... If a gurning monkey sat on your telly, squawked near your radio and was seen on most city streets, bus shelters, tube stations etc. would you not be ever so slightly irritated by that...?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
03:25 / 07.10.04
Why do you hate Robbie Williams ?

Well because he's an idiot. And an intrusive one was well -I dare say Robbie Willliams would admit, in his darker moments, that he's basically Salieri ( sic, possibly, sorry if it is, ) to Liam Gallagher's Mozart, so it's quite hard to work out on what basis he expects to be treated than as anything other than a terminal clown.

Let's face it, who'd miss him.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
04:43 / 07.10.04
I've met him twice- once very soon post-NKOTB break-up, and once after his solo career had taken off.
The first time, he was a surprisingly nice guy (it's actually a very funny story...) the second, an arrogant, coked-up fuckwit.

I think the reason he inspires such hatred (for me at least) is his ubiquity.
 
 
_Boboss
08:36 / 07.10.04
the reason i hate him so much is rock dj. thought that was pretty obvious.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:58 / 07.10.04
But Grant Morrison said that the video was a condecension of The Invisibles into four minutes!

He may have been taking the piss.

I always quite liked the tune of the chorus to 'Rock DJ', but the verses were excruiatingly annoying: helpfully Scissor Sisters solved this problem by writing 'Better Luck'.

Essentially, I've always thought that Williams produces half-decent tunes marred by his own little irritating ticks and smugness - some people have credited the half-decent part to his former songwriting partner Guy Chambers - without whom, it has to be said, the annoying > half-decent ratio has definitely changed for the worse. It takes a lot to push me to the point where I write off a pop star as an irredeemable asshat whose records should be burnt in the street: I'd always been ambivalent about Williams, and he didn't reach that stage until the double-punch of the singles 'Come Undone' (about how hard it is to be Robbie the pop star, what with all the supermodels and coke), and 'Something Beautiful' (about how rubbish Pop Idol is, because "you can't manufacture a miracle" and therefore these reality TV shows don't produce proper musicians who make proper music (out of wood)). I think those two songs together make a pretty watertight case for the prosecution...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:43 / 07.10.04
[snort]

Sorry, but what a load of crap, Fly. First of all, history tells us that it takes you personally all of thirty seconds and an overheard off-hand remark in an interview for you to "write off a pop star as an irredeemable asshat whose records should be burnt in the street" - very often the rationalisation comes afterwards. I believe you recently called almost the entire contents of the UK Top 40 album chart imbeciles and halfwits without any attempt at explanation/justification. Amy 'Whinnyhorse' (think he means Winehouse, boys and girls) has today been informed by our Fly that "the war is on, yo." And I've been listening to you make the same kind of remarks about Williams as the others above for, what, four years now?

Oh, by the way, if you want to give us 'Come Undone' and 'Something Beautiful' as your damascene moments... best actually listen to the songs first, hmmm? See, I think what you've done is confuse what the song's about with what's in the video. A quick search via Google indicates that 'Come Undone' is very likely to be about his unhealthy incestuous love/hate relationship with the media/press/paparazzi. 'Something Beautiful', meanwhile, appears to be about feeling lonely and unloved and waiting for something better to come along - standard Williams fare, really, but not really about reality TV at all.

Anyway. The smugness appears to be the major reason for the hate. Answered that question, then. One of the things that's always bothered me about some of the criticism, I should say, is that apparently he, and other celebrities, should consider themselves content with the vast money, supermodels and coke lifestyle, as if that kind of shit should make anyone and everyone happy. Now, this isn't about privilege, this is about lifestyle. Are we really that shallow?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:04 / 07.10.04
Ah, but I never said what constitutes "a lot". Congratulations on reading my blog - more people should. Bit disappointed that you'd fall back on the "you can't actually have heard the songs" tactic though...
 
 
haus of fraser
12:16 / 07.10.04
ah!
But have you heard Jessica Simpson singing angels? oh yeah its so, so, so bad- the videos very very camp and 'worthy' - and its got doves in!

Now i have as little time for him as the rest of you but It almost makes Robbie look like a serious artist- its that badly mauled.

Yep shes changed the chorus so that instead of 'she offers me protection..' its 'he offers me protection' and if that doesn't make you wince she does that weird Mariah Carey-esque warbling that they all try and do on pop idol to impress Simon Cowell.

Go to this link and be prepaired to cringe...
 
 
Ganesh
14:30 / 07.10.04
I'm kinda with Jack the Bodiless here, in that I find the level of vitriol around Robbie Williams slightly weird. In a way, I think the 'Robbie = smug, self-pitying arsehole' thing has become a truism we no longer even think about questioning. After all, why should we spend time thinking about a smug, self-pitying arsehole?

Has anyone else read Chris Heath's book on him, Feel? I really liked his account of Pet Shop Boys, and whatever one thinks of Robbie Williams, Heath writes very perceptively about pop, fame, etc. One comes away with an impression of Robbie as a basically nice (if sometimes deeply irritating) guy who was fucked up at a relatively early age, has a weirdly ambivalent sense of success/failure, and has managed to back himself into an unenviable relationship with his own fame/celebrity. It's a worthwhile read.

I've not heard the new song yet, but the split with Guy Chambers is well-documented in Feel, as is Robbie's collaboration with Stephen Duffy. I'm interested to hear it.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:02 / 07.10.04
I just really don't want to see his gurning mug any more. I'm sorry if that seems unreasonable but it's the truth. Don't worry though - I unreasonably hate hundreds of pop stars, Robbie's not that special.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:04 / 07.10.04
Bit disappointed that you'd fall back on the "you can't actually have heard the songs" tactic though...

So disappointed you don't wanna engage with it?

Here, let me help:

'Come Undone'

So unimpressed, but so in awe
Such a saint, but such a whore
So self-aware, so full of shit
So indecisive, so adament
I'm contemplating, thinkin' about thinkin'
It's overrated, just get another drink and

Watch me come undone
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
I pray when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep
If I ever hurt you, you revenge will be so sweet
Because I'm scum, and I'm your son
I come undone
I come undone

So rock 'n' roll, so coppered suits
So damn ugly, so damn cute
So well-trained, so animal
So need your laugh, so fuck you all
I'm not scared of dying, I just don't want to
If I stop lying, I'll just disappoint you

Come undone
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
Come undone
I pray when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep
Come undone
If I ever hurt you, your revenge will be so sweet
Because I'm scum, and I'm your son
I come undone

So write another ballad, mix it on a Wednesday
Sell it on a Thursday, Friday, out by Saturday
It's a love song, a love song
Do another interview, sing a bunch of lies
Tell about celebrities that they all despise
And sing love songs, we sing love songs so sincere

So sincere

Come undone
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
Come undone
I pray when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep
Come undone
The young pretend you're in the clouds above the sea
I come undone
I am scum
Love your son
You've gotta love your son
Come undone
You've gotta love you son
Come undone

Love your son
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum

There's an ambivalent relationship with the media, and, I guess, with his own fame, for you. I actually think it's a fantastic lyric, for a change. Oh, and your cutting song about reality TV:

'Something Beautiful'

You can't manufacture a miracle
The silence was pitiful that day.
A love is getting too cynical
Passion's just physical these days
You analyze everyone you meet
But get no sign, love ain't kind
every night you admit defeat
and cry yourself blind

If you can't wake up in the morning
Cause your bed lies vacant at night
If you're lost, hurt, tired or lonely
Can't control it, try as you might
May you find that love that won't leave you
May you find it by the end of the day
You won't be lost, hurt, tired and lonely
Something beautiful will come your way

The DJ said on the radio
Life should be stereo, each day
In the past you cast the unsuitable
Instead of some kind of beautiful, you just couldn't wait
All your friends think you're satisfied
But they can't see your soul no, no, no
Forgot the time feeling petrified, when they lived alone

Some kind of beautiful will come your way


All your friends think you're satisfied
But they can't see your soul no no no
Forgot the time feeling petrified
When they lived alone

Fly, you're not wearing any clothes, man...
 
 
haus of fraser
16:31 / 07.10.04
i don't know which upsets me more- the fact that this could be all from memory- or the fact that you just spent 20 minutes copying it out from the inside of a cd...
 
 
Bear
17:22 / 07.10.04
Or maybe from the web? More likely I imagine.....

I've never disliked the guy and I'm also unsure where all the hate comes from - the new song sounds alright apart from his voice he doesn't have the bass to carry it off.

I heard an interview with him on the radio this week and he didn't seem smug at all, he said himself that he's very boring in real life but puts on a show when he's on stage.

Not so sure about the whole Frank Sinattra thing.
 
 
Spaniel
18:55 / 07.10.04
For some reason Robbie reminds me of cocaine, and, well, cocaine reminds me of arseholes.
 
 
uncle retrospective
19:33 / 07.10.04
How about angels? There's a reason for hate if you need it. Jesus! It's between Wonderwall and that turd for song that finally makes me gun down people at random.
 
 
■
20:07 / 07.10.04
Good God, you go away from a thread after asking a question about how you have managed to mistakenly find some chord progressions and rhythms from someone you know a bit and don't like much similar to some by a band you know and don't like much (burn the heretic!), and all heck breaks loose. For the record, I find him a bit annoying, but I had an inexplicable fondness for as the only boy band who produced one or two records that weren't complete, shit. I think that might have transferred to him so I give him the benefit of the doubt. I certainly don't listen to the lyrics, though, and Angels is a travesty against music and taste. Having heard it a couple more times, I can still hear why I made the original comparison, but I'm probably picking up something very different than everyone else. Don't care, was just curious. Glad someone else thought of Kraftwerk, though. That was another possibility. Don't like them much, either, even if I respect what they do.
 
 
The Natural Way
21:15 / 07.10.04
Why I hate Robbie Williams (by Runce):

- Let's talk about that smug head, then. Right, first off his head being annoying is not a truism - it's a fucking reality. Take a good look at those publicity photos. Look at him - a smile playing on is lips as he gazes up at us meaningfully. That's just plain annoying by anybody's standards. I don't care who's in charge of the image, I hate it and that's all there is to it.

- I can't stand the way the british public did, and in some cases still do, identify with him. He's a bullshit local hero - furthur!, guys! We can do much better than bloody Williams. All the fucking T4 Robbie "events" are so fucking horrible. He's the epitome of that whole celebrity-mates-in-yr-living-room-performing-for-you thing. You know, your mate, Robbie. Down the pub.

- Aaargh! When that conceited little shit dedicated No Regrets to the rest of Take That during his concert earlier on this year! What a spoiled little arsehole, sitting on his fucking throne years and years and years later and still nursing a grudge. Grow up, fuck off going on about what a bunch of twats yr teachers were to you, and how you've "MADE IT!" (on coke), shut up with all yr goddamn soul baring....... ArggHHHhgHJaopiAAAAH!!

- Music: ghastly bad. Meem put it best.

I have not completed this essay, it would be the A (best in class), but it will definitely go more mad in the head as it goes on. So I will stop before coherence completely succumbs to AAARGHHGUN talk.
 
 
haus of fraser
07:53 / 08.10.04
oh be quiet timothy...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:10 / 08.10.04
the new song sounds alright apart from his voice he doesn't have the bass to carry it off...

Yeah, that's what I thought too, bearo. Not a bad effort, but his vocal didn't seem to have the right timbre to go with the music.

Anyway, so to recap - Wedding Runce does his usual I'M RIGHT, ME (and sounds quite jealous of Our Rob, actually - anyone else hearing the green-eyed monster there, or was it just me?), and everyone else seethes a little more. I did ask for less vitriol, more thought, but it's obvious that really, vitriol is all there is, so I'm taking that as my answer.

Cheers!
 
 
Sir Real
12:43 / 08.10.04
I really liked him in 'Mork and Mindy,' but 'Patch Adams' sucked.
 
 
■
21:59 / 08.10.04
arf
 
 
Ganesh
09:56 / 09.10.04
Hmmm. I'd almost forgotten the notable tendency of some within the Music forum to (over)use phrases like "by anybody's standards" to make the subjective objective. Nice seething, Runce.
 
  

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