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Underground > Comic Books >

Promethea #31

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17:58 / 02.09.04

thank you varriage, for your enthusiastic reassurance.
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rise and reverberate

18:02 / 02.09.04

hey there d. falconer
yeah, most of alan's writing tends to read even better in collected form or in lump sums. not to knock the individual chapters because they are always great to read but he seems to always make sure that everything has a new and even stronger resonance when read large chunks or as collected volumes.
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rise and reverberate

18:20 / 02.09.04

Been thinking about this issue.

Before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water.

After enlightenment, you chop wood and carry water.

That seems to sum things up, yeah?

18:39 / 02.09.04

Yeah, but after enlightenment, you stop bitching about chopping wood and carrying water.

And that we can all be grateful for.

18:45 / 02.09.04

Hey JHW3!

What about Grace/Stacia/Proemthea's sigil being tattoed on your forearm in the imaginary train station? Is it real? Are YOU Stacia/Grace?

Is Carl SUPPOSED to look like Mr. Moore, thirty years younger?

Was there ever anything sly that you may have sneaked into your art that no one ever noticed or discussed? It always pisses me off when I leave little things in my designs for people to think about and the audience thinks it's friggin texture.

05:53 / 03.09.04

hey there chad
yes, that tattoo on my arm is real. and yes i tend to identify with grace and stacia. grace for her darkness and somewhat gothic attitude and stacia for her over the top wacky insanity because i definitely have both of those aspects in my personality. also the similarity between them is that they both are somewhat intense people to be around and i have been told that i can be that way as well. i plan on expanding my tattoos with more quabalistic images and promethea references. hmmm...magical tattoos, now there's an idea.

carl actually sort of looks like me when i was a bit younger. i used to have hair my like that but still have the beard. shaved head now and quite often i can be found wearing some underground rock band t-shirt.

there is a lot of stuff that people don't see in the art right away but too much to really pinpoint specifics to you. just have fun exploring.
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rise and reverberate

10:08 / 03.09.04

'he's not read the invisibles'

hee hee he should have.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:22 / 03.09.04

Probably, but then he should have read Middlemarch as well, and nobody is holding a gun to his head on that one.

I confess that the most interesting thing about this whole eschaton business was the Painted Doll, for me. Most of the Promethea stuff, after she "rose again", became a little...obvious. There's only so much "Look! It's a comic! They're all *in a comic*! The end of the world is signified by *Alex Ross*! But it's all magic! Do you see? Do you?" a girl can stand, and this arc felt about an issue too long...

10:41 / 03.09.04

shamefully, i've not read middlemarch either. do they all go into the supercontext at the end? i luv stories that end like that

12:20 / 03.09.04

Aye, it was on the telly.

How do you know he hasn't, Haus? Perhaps JH can intercede here also.

Next issue, '...the shouting' is it?

As for overlong, maybe, but it has to be 32 issues doesn't it? I hope there's a free Qabbalistic colour key for each one next, sellotaped to the cover.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:45 / 03.09.04

No, son. No it doesn't. It doesn't have to be any more or fewer issues than are required to tell a good story. You want to make it 32 issues, come up with 32 issues of compelling content.

(I have no opinion on whether Moore has read Middlemarch, merely observe that he should have, but nobody ever obsesses about it. And, Varriage, it's Hypertime. They go into Hypertime)

12:50 / 03.09.04

Waid and Morrison didn't coin the term 'hypertime' for their DCU pet project? (sorry, getting off-topic again here)

Thanks again to jhw3 for his comments and consistently terrific and innovative artwork throughout the series.

13:07 / 03.09.04

Is this necessity of having read Middlemarch specific to Alan?

The second half was excellent, the first a hangover. I'm not really disagreeing.

There have been a few minor irritants on the book (make your own list) but still. There are enough goods, for me anyway, too.

The Natural Way

14:32 / 03.09.04

And, Varriage, it's Hypertime. They go into Hypertime

Errr?

I think you mean "Gambit", not "Varriage".

All of us brightoners are revealed as one in the hyper-context. We look kind of like a 5D squid.

But with dreads.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:54 / 03.09.04

Apolololololologies, Varriage and Gambit. Finderwolf - Hypertime in The Kingdom was nicked from George Eliot's radical approach to continuity in her run on Legion of Super Heroes. Duncan - I think everyone *should* have read Middlemarch, including Alan Moore. It's just odd that the only book anyone around here tells him to read is one that I imagine he could get a free copy of if he wanted, and has thus quite clearly decided is not for him.

His best work, of course, remains "Maxwell the Magic Cat".

15:06 / 03.09.04

oh you. if he'd read the invisibles, that comic that said very nearly the same thing as promethea but was concluded over three years ago, promethea itself might have been able to avoid some of its clunkier moments. reading middlemarch - probably not so much (cept for the wicked hypercontext ending).

given that big al's reason for not reading the invisibles is, as far as we humble fanmen know, that your girlfriend george said 'a couple of the panels in watchmen are a bit flat y'know' about fifteen years ago, he would have been better off at least acquainting himself with the path of those who went before him and avoiding some of their pitfalls.

15:38 / 03.09.04

Neil-

For the sake of curiosity and conversation, what do you feel were the more clunky parts of Promethea?

I anticipate you'll say the Kabbalah Quest, but aside from that, where? Every issue had a solid beginning, a conflict, and a clear resolution — something I didn't get from Invisibles, especially near the end.

17:24 / 03.09.04

Is that really why he seems to have a problem with Morrison?

I always thought it was that comment about Moore "trying to reinvent himself as me," which would annoy a lot of people...

I've always been fascinated by the fact that (In my opinion) the best comic book writers in the world (ever?) write about the same stuff and don't talk to each other (or do they?). Hell, they don't like each other, right?

Or, Alan Moore has a problem with Grant Morrison...

I'm sure he's a nice guy and stuff but I always get the impression he's the kind of person who never forgives you if you piss him off, even about the most insignificant thing. Why would he care what Morrison thinks of his work, you know?

(I'm aware this has very, very little to do with Promethea)

17:45 / 03.09.04

hey there d. falconer
i have no idea if alan has read middle march or not. i haven't read it either but will check it out, thanks.
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rise and reverberate

17:52 / 03.09.04

Yeah, I agree. How can an enlightened guy like Moore - who knows all about all kinds of things and believes we're all the same, really, and all that - be so antagonistic towards Morrison? It's childish. Better yet, it's like when those two Prometheas fought to the death. I can't wait for the day when Moore and Morrison collapse into each others' arms, weeping in regret and love.

18:03 / 03.09.04

oy!!! back to comparisons of promethea and invisibles!!! i mean does it really matter if one was done before the other? i haven't read the invisibles myself either but do have the collections in preparation for when i can find some time to get to it. that being said...from what i gather the invisibles touches on similar themes as promethea. so what. just by judging by the art in invisibles alone it is clearly meant to be a different story than promethea. i think that they must have these similarities due the interests in the same subjects by these 2 writers. i do feel that it isn't necessary that they should read each other's work before telling the stories that they both wish to tell. if there end up being similarities, oh well, so be it. each story still has each author's personal perspectives and styles on the subject being written about. its still worth while. even if they both have similar "pitfalls" as someone said. the work is usually being done for personal purposes but made available to the public for their entertainment. if that said public finds things of high interest to the work then thats great and wonderful. but in any form of entertainment media people will find similarities in all kinds of material but doesn't mean that all forms of creators are supposed to have seen all of that stuff. things like that just happen.
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rise and reverberate

18:51 / 03.09.04

I understand your sentiment as well as your frustration, JHW3. I think the emphasis has less to with Moore versus Morrison as much as it has more to do with us Barbelites feeling the need to normalize our collective knowledge amongst ourselves. IE: "Read Morrison? Read Moore!" and vice versa. No one story captures the Truth, but several fit to create it. In our zeal, awe, and education, we insist on that philosophy.

I think it's great that amazing talent has produced art that overlaps so intimately. The overlap ESTABLISHES the fact that there is cultural and conceptual communication that transcends notions of "riffing" or replicating themes. Great minds and all...

Back to discussing the art: I understand the reasons behind using Escher for the inspiration for the covers and art of issue 15, but I'm not familiar enough with the philosophies and departures of the other Kabbalh Quest artists... Specifically, the artist for Moon River issue 14 and Peter Max for issue 16. Were the chosices for the cover artist homages left up to you, and what about their work compelled you to use them to represent imagination(issue 14) and emotion(issue16)?

18:57 / 03.09.04

Incidentally, my favorite cover of Promethea is issue 21(Binah) and I've wondered who/what the inspiration for that cover/interior art was.

19:01 / 03.09.04

I take that back. My REAL favorite is 11, Promethea UNDER ATTACK!

It's fun, and homages really low art

19:41 / 03.09.04

hey there chad
most of my choices for artistcic influence was really instinctual and what felt right at the moment. i pretty much did the whole series this way. and this was also the way alan approached the writing. we did this because in most cases the instinctual or gut feeling tends to be the correct one. that said looking back on the virgil finlay inspired cover i suppose when you look at his body of work it always has this otherworldly going to a strangeworld feeling or subject about it. in that regard it was the right choice for me considering that it was real first step into the tree of life. the peter max cover was really based on what i feel when i look at his work as well. i feel a lot of warmth and emotion is in his work, a deepness that belies some of the simplicity and trippiness that is common in his art. there is a sense of emotional satisfaction in it and ended up being just the right thing for that issue. in a lot of ways i just let fate sort of guide me in the choices i made. issue twenty one, the wood block print style sort of represents to me a simple truth in stucture what lays beneath the surface detaill that can be obscuring or distracting from an image or idea, the first layer being stripped in a way revealing another simpler structured layer. these are examples of how i came to different artistic conclusions.
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rise and reverberate

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:46 / 04.09.04

I'm sure he's a nice guy and stuff but I always get the impression he's the kind of person who never forgives you if you piss him off, even about the most insignificant thing.

He is also an accomplished and surprisingly tender lover.

And we're back to the Jason Donovan chatroom.

I don't really see much need for Moore to read the Invisibles, or indeed for Morrison to read Promethea, if they don't want to. They are both making comics to sell, so as long as somebody does the market research, which will show that people like Chad will happily buy both, and then explain why in terms of some sort of comically Biblical progression of awe and education. Morrison and Moore have read many of the same books. They have many of the same influences. It's that simple. No Vulcan mind transfer, no mystical interaction.

19:29 / 05.09.04

JHW3, who are the ghosts on the cover? The only one I recognize is Andy Warhol...

16:52 / 06.09.04

hey there finderwolf
nancy spungen and john lennon. i suppose i should have chosen easier to recognise people considering that i had to make them blue ghostly and children's-storybook -like.
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rise and reverberate

02:50 / 07.09.04

What about the one in the hat in front of the RIP gravestone?

15:49 / 07.09.04

I just got this and even though most of it has been said I was to restate what a great issue this is. I love that Sophie is done with her Promethea job and now they need a new Promethea. I love that the painted doll is not one of the 4 swell guys. And I love how Stacia has turned out. Nice job all around.

19:54 / 07.09.04

I thought the ghost in the front might be Crowley...?

00:05 / 08.09.04

I just liked the fact that the world ended and everyone just got on with it. I was expecting death, destruction, collapsing realities, but no... we just grow... wonderful...

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