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Underground > Comic Books >

Promethea #31

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12:55 / 26.08.04

It's out. And it's pretty cool. I don't have much time to write about it now but wanted to start off a thread for this...

Humanity really takes a step forward. Moore and Williams slowly closing their story.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

22:29 / 26.08.04

A pretty decent end chapter, although I'm curious to see what comes about at the wrap party. I like that we got to see the result of the "pan-global event" and that it didn't solve all the world's problems. Any chance we'll get to see what Tom Strong went through, I wonder? They hint at it, but we can only hope.

Still rather annoyed that we've never gotten anything beyond the occasion tease about the Night Queen...

01:47 / 27.08.04

My annotations are online at

http://eroomnala.0catch.com/31.html

If there's download problems check out

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sophiebangs/message/389

for the first rough version of same annotations

We should get to see what happened to Tom Strong when Alan's last Tom Strong story is published. Maybe around the same time as Promethea 32 or maybe not. That's due out in December.

02:07 / 27.08.04

Pow. I just got hit by the idea about the Night Queen and ...what if SHE'S the new host for the Promethea spirit?

It was great. I loved the way everything was so slow for five or six issues and then bang we're thrown into the future a few months or years or so. My only complaint is that I feel like we've been told the whole WE ARE EVERTHING story two or three times in its entirety so far. But that might be because I'm in the Temple often and I read a lot of Morrison and I'm building a book on organic time and studying integral theory.

I liked that the ABC world didn't evaporate into nothing. I liked that we got back to a world of pencils and ink, but it bothered me that everything post-event looks washed in day-glo and highly saturated color. Almost looks like a mistake, how much damn pink there was. And how come New York turned into Mytho-Disney? Unicorns? I hope 2013 doesn't bring about a Magic Kingdom style of architecture.

Loved it... Can't wait for the wrap party. Is that going to be only a month away, seeing as how they don't have to paint anything anymore?

05:52 / 27.08.04

A lot of this made me really angry, to be honest.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

07:18 / 27.08.04

How so, Alex?

Haus of Mystery

10:14 / 27.08.04

Cos he doesn't believe in fairies.

14:14 / 27.08.04

What other comic gives you guest cameos by Thoth and Alex Ross, I ask you?

15:12 / 27.08.04

It was all very...good?
I don't really know how to describe it. I thought this was the last issue. Glad it's not, though, what with that "Maybe we need a new Promethea?" bit at the end. That would have annoyed me.

I know what you mean about being told "we are all one" again. That felt like a re-hash.

So all the world's problems aren't solved after the revelation? Some people just ignored what they saw? That's very depressing. It's possible that in a few generations, things will go back to being the way they were before the Apocalypse.

16:50 / 27.08.04

That's absolutely not the case

Issue 12 pretty explicitly describes how humanity DOESN'T go backward. Hell, as the conscious expression of space-time, we CAN'T. The reason The Holocaust will never happen again is the sheer amount of Schindler's List and Pianist films are out there. Now granted, Holocaust-like events occur, and we(USA and/or industiralized nations) have been slow to respond, but we DO respond. We learned from our experiences. Through modern public education's response to technology and discovery, compassion and understanding is already cementing into the baseline personality of a citizen of the ultraculture. Fact of the matter is, not everybody matters. Relatively speaking, I might have more socio-economic power than the country in Africa that shares my name. There are those of us on the edge of this world who operate with systemic worldcentric values, but there are also those of us who still respond to old fundamentalist and archaically egocentric perspectives. In the ABC Universe, middle America is now as educated about the inclusive nature of reality and the role of God/imagination. It's as if the main body of the world just took a step across, but there is still parts of them stuck in the past, just like with all things and all times. It's not like problems ceased to exist, it's just that they let go of being PLAGUED by problems. Now everyone who's anyone responds to a full worldview of responsibility, spontanaeity, and growth heirarchies.

You think poof! and we'd all be back in Eden?

17:02 / 27.08.04

I don't really understand the problem some of you are having with the "we are all one" aspect of the story. It isn't a plot device, it's the philosophical point that Alan Moore is trying to make with the series. Yes GM did the same thing in the Invisibles, but it's not a "re-hash", especially since I doubt AM has even read the Invisibles. It's in both stories because it's part of the conclusion that each of them has come to (independently of each other) through years of occult experience and research. Or so I would guess. Maybe not. Maybe they are both unimaganative hacks who can't come up with original ideas to keep you entertained. But I doubt it.

17:07 / 27.08.04

I think those who have had a problem with it don't have a problem with Moore (or anyone) presenting the notion of "we are all one", only that Moore has made this point repeatedly in the last few issues of Promethea. The critique is that it seems repetitive, not that it's a bad idea from psychedelic hacks like Moore and Morrison.

Chad's post above mentions:

>> My only complaint is that I feel like we've been told the whole WE ARE EVERTHING story two or three times in its entirety so far.

It's not like we've been teased with little doses of it and then gotten the full dose. We've kind of gotten the full dose of the 'all is one, we are everything' story every issue in the last 3 issues or so. One could argue that we've gotten different facets of it, I suppose. I'm sort of torn on whether I feel the repetition is cool & OK or just repetitive, maybe padding so Moore can end on issue #32. (dare I just have vaguely accused Alan Moore of 'padding'? maybe I just did...but it'd be ok if he did, he's Alan Moore for Christ's sake...)
After a few issues, a reader can think "Ok, ok, we get it, we're all one, yes, understood."

17:09 / 27.08.04

hey there everyone
glad to be seeing your comments here on the newest issue. also glad to see that you have enjoyed the end of the story for the most part. i know that coloring would be a bit jarring for the last half of the chapter but it needed to be different than anything we had previously done. so i went with completely open line art with no shadows to create lots of structure and shapes. so the archecture seemed to be lighter and less imposing. this led jeromy to the notion of using a heavy colorful palette along the lines of what you might find in india or similarly. this gave us that unique sort of uplifting feel that the end of the chapter really needed. no dreariness. so its defintely not a mistake. when you get the chance to reread the storyline in whole it might make more sense that we did that, hopefully. anyway, again, glad to see those comments. lets keep them coming.
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rise and reverberate

17:22 / 27.08.04

I DID notice the lack of blacks and empty shadows. It definitely felt different than how New York City felt in the beginning, and I sensed it was intentional. And I liked the intentional heavy skewed coloring, I guess I'm more inclined to wash things in pastels and metallics "post-event". Sum up: Mission accomplished.

That woulda been cool. A Metallic Pantone version of the future. Woulda been 20 dollars just for the single issue though.

JHW3 -Loved it. Loved the consistent beauty of the work. Extend my thanks also to your wife, whom I understand laboriously researches your material for you

That's love.

17:55 / 27.08.04

Thanks JHW3 for peeking in and posting -- honesty, your art is so amazing on this book (and overall, but esp. on Promethea) that I feel like I've grown sort of spoiled, in that I just unconsciously expect amazing art every issue. Your experiments with color and with linework have really paid off here.

Who's "Wendy" (cited in the credits as 'inspiration')?

'Over 3 billion enlightened' was a nce touch. Is that you wearing the shirt?

19:13 / 27.08.04

hey there chad
thanks for the nice comments. i appreciate them very much. yeah it would be very cool to do an issue using a variety of metallic inks. we actually looked into that but production aspects of trying that seemed like it would turn into a mess with the printing process unless every page was printed on cardstock. it would end up having a price tag of about the amount you mentioned. too much to expect everyone to fork over $20 or more for a single brand new issue of something that is only 24 pages in length.
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rise and reverberate

19:22 / 27.08.04

hey there finderwolf
thank you very much for the nice comments as well. wendy is my wife actually. she provides much of the research for me in producing the work. i couldn't have managed nearly as well without her valuable work.
no, that isn't me in the "enlightened" shirt. the only industry cameo is by alex ross, pages 4 and 5 panel 4 going across the spread.
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rise and reverberate

19:51 / 27.08.04

Okay, if JHW3 is gonna stop by to answer qs... who are the dieties circling the human faces on pages 12-13?

At the top, we get the black, white, and gray eyes of God, and clockwise from there include who looks like: Indra, Mars, Jesus Christ, Aphrodite, Thoth, Ganesh, ?Demeter, ?Selene, Hermes, ?Inanna, Apollo, ?Shiva, and Zeus...

It's unfortunate that more obscure and culturally diverse godforms were not included, but alas... we don't live in PC/USA

, we live in consensus reality, and those are the gods with staying power. Most of those gods are referenced at some point in the run, so it makes sense in that regard as well.

I especially liked the de-emphasis on sex in NYC's billboards. Was there a discourse between you and Alan regarding social sexual preoccupation as a metaphor for personal sexual anticipation? After the universe blows its wad, so to speak, billboards seem to be more mature and past-all-that. As if the media is now in afterglow, where you can really see the sex partner, without all the testosterone and sweat in the way. I would've liked to have seen more of the post-event world, and what a more holistic attitude would've done to various industries. Ahh, it was still sweet though.

Most improved character throughout goes to Trish Bangs, who looks amazing.

19:55 / 27.08.04

Oh shit! Is Tom Strong's book going to SHOW us the post-event world? Granted, his book isn't so much narrative as a fiction from HIS world transposed into OURS, but there's mention in 31 of how he'll describe his Revelation in his own book...

20:02 / 27.08.04

We're not SURE that there will be an Alan Moore-written Tom Strong issue (how sad that that's become a rarity these days), just speculation plus the line in this issue of Promethea, which may be for the fictional comic in the ABC universe or may be a message intended for us "real" readers.

Oh, and excellent question, Chad - I look forward to hearing JHW's response about the various dieties shown.

21:31 / 27.08.04

hey there chad
the gods page goes like this with demeter in the bottom center...
moving upwards from the left bottom we have
selene
hermes
nike
apollo
kali
zeus
moving upwards from bottom right we have
ganesh
thoth
venus
christ
ares
indra

as to all of the billboards...no, alan and i didn't really discuss it too much he had some ideas that he threw into the script and then i added a lot fo my own ideas. interesting observation about the lack of sexual reference in the signs around town. this was not a conscious thing. i'm not quite sure why i did that. i certainly didn't want to convey that sex wasn't a lofty thing in an enlightened world because i would think that the oppsite would hold true to that. sex ,in my opinion, would be very accepted and be a very important component to one's spiritual empowerment. i do like what your impressions about this are. it makes sense. so subliminally i must have been in that same frame of mind.
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rise and reverberate

21:36 / 27.08.04

there is one interesting sign ..."the love club...come in and be kissed" could be taken any number of ways.
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rise and reverberate

21:36 / 27.08.04

Great Minds channel the same wisdom of the divine, JHW3.

Thanks for the reply.

16:34 / 29.08.04

"Sophie and friends in the Supercontext..."

I doubt Moore's ever read The Invisibles (Although I'd love to know for sure...) but I thought the ideas were very similar. When she said "Don't you remember?" I was pulled right out of the narrative, I couldn't believe it...

"Try to remember" (right?)

But like I say I've noticed a few similarities between Moore and Morrison's work ( Doom Patrol 53 and 1963 for example), is it just a case of "Great minds think alike"?

I certainly wouldn't deny either man that description.

17:08 / 29.08.04

hey there optimistic
i know for sure that alan has never read the invisibles but not sure if read grant's doom patrol. either way i do believe that these two writers tend to write about similar things by coincidence most of the time. they both appear to have similar interests.
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rise and reverberate

17:26 / 29.08.04

Damn, I went to the comic shop today looking for this and it was closed!!! Now I have to wait til next weekend!

17:34 / 29.08.04

Cheers for the reply JHW3.

I suppose it's like Chad said, eh?

( He's never read it? ...you mean you've asked him? )

Ignore that sad fanboy bit, couldn't resist...

You're not from Dundee are you Imulsivelad? I know the guy from the comic shop here went to a Beatles convention...

Is quite sad that I know that, isn't it?

23:44 / 29.08.04

Hey hey! I igured JHW3 would just be passing through to hype the book, but if he's gonna be around for a few more posts to answer questions:

1. The Love Club. I DID see that COME IN AND GET KISSED, but as that frame coincided with the mayors' decision to allow legalized and regulated prostitution, it's actually that image what made me zoom back and forth to examine the use of sex in the post-event universe. The semiotics alone of the Love Club denote that it is a more sedate, mature, and obviously compassionate iteration of the SEX! SEX! SEX! clubs prior to the apocalypse. It doesn't seem seedy in the least, and THAT'S what made me question whether you and Mr. Moore discussed that as a thematic direction.

2. Whistler's Mother. Earlier, issue 29, the page that has the holy grail sitting in for JFK on The Chariot card. Promethea sits at the hearth and the first thing that hit my brain was that it resembled a more fiery version of Whistler's Mother. Was that an inspiration or an intentional analogue? With Mom coming home, and all?

3. What was WITH JFK being a spilt cup anyway? I mean, I GET that his death was the death of the Natalie Merchant's King of May and ushered in the epoch of the Sun Card, but it seemed so random and out-of-place that Mr. Moore must've made that something in the notes... could you elaborate?

01:29 / 30.08.04

Op- No I'm not from Dundee, I'm in Miami, and I just found out my comic shopkeeper took the day off cause he was going to the Mtv VMA Awards.

03:02 / 30.08.04

hey there chad
more interesting and thoughtful observations of the use of sex in the backgrounds. all very subliminal streaming from my subconcious.

yes, the mother coming home to rest is very astute. as far as being absolutely a parallel to wistler's mother was not specifically intentional as far as i know. i don't recall anything in the script about that.

one possiblity of using jfk as the grail from the way i see it is that jfk's death was a beginning for a search for some kind of truth. its also a real beginning of distrust in our government and our surroundings and how that affects our view of the world. in some ways jfk was the stone that fell into calm water causing a ripple effect in our current known reality extending to now and beyond. i think that taken into considration pertains to the current political climate in the US and the actions of our current government. this is hinted at in the background plots of the story with events paralleling each other between the story and our perceptions of the world. when looked at this way, jfk is a very appropriate symbol within the context that bridges us and the story itself.
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rise and reverberate

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

04:54 / 30.08.04

One thing that I got stuck on was Stacia and Lucille getting together in a pseudo-threesome with Grace; Lucille seems to have become a doppleganger of the Stacia/Grace Promethea (right down to the hair and some aspect of the clothes) - which actually makes sense, because Lucille always struck me as being a lot like Grace, pre-event. It felt like, even though she wasn't aware of Grace's presence in their relationship, she was unconsciously mimicking her, and joining the symbiosis in her own way.

Would have liked to see more of Dennis and Bill; the idea of Bill's tenure as Promethea always struck me as an untapped resource, and part of me wants a cartoony Promethea mini starring Bill, or perhaps hir own Promethea comic (in the same way as Tom Strong is transposed fiction). But that goes up there with the Night Queen stuff; this is a complete - well, almost, one issue to go - work and there's not time to devote to everything that gets brought up.

02:41 / 31.08.04

Thanks for the insight, jhw3. I always love when the creators chime in.

The Natural Way

13:03 / 02.09.04

Do you know what this

i know for sure that alan has never read the invisibles

makes me want to say?

Do you?

I. Told. You. So.

Eat that, Gambit, you ponce!

The Natural Way

13:08 / 02.09.04

Re: the colouring.

this gave us that unique sort of uplifting feel that the end of the chapter really needed. no dreariness. so its defintely not a mistake.

Hey, JH, don't you worry, it's clearly not a mistake. We're in the heavenly, radiant city, fo' gawd's sake!

More light! More light!

17:34 / 02.09.04

I'm from Dundee.

Uhm, I don't think this really works well as a single ish. Gonna have a smoke and read of the rest of vol. 4/5(? - I dunno, don't buy trades) and come back to it.

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